I plan to build a modular system for techno production and sync and output to Ableton. The type of sound that i want to reach is industrial like - gritty, raw, crispy and warm like Rebekah, I Hate Models or Regal.
So i need the advice with the rack i've build here - maybe something is missing or i'd better change or add some more important modules.
Now i plan to buy a few most important and irreplaceable modules and then improve it.
Part of the problem is that you mention you want this for "techno production", but not which aspect of that, of which there are many. Is this for percussives? Bass? Leads and pads? All of it? If the latter, you're going to have quite a time of fitting something that versatile in that small a cab. NEVER start with a small cab like this...ALWAYS go with a cab that you think is too large. Invariably, you'll find that your "too large" cab is actually just fine or, if the goal is to create a unitized production device, it's STILL too small.
Second: "important" modules don't make a synthesizer work, if by "important" you actually mean "sexy". This is something I go over quite a bit on here. The ACTUAL things that make a synth a synth are the modules that seem UNimportant...VCAs, mixers, attenuation/inversion, and the like. Sure, it would be awesome if we could fill our cabs with nothing but edgy graphics, a bazillion blinkenlichts und twistenknobs, devices of arcane mystery and all of the rest of that marketing bullshit. But the truth is that you can spendspendspend on those sorts of modules and wind up with something utterly nonfunctional by neglecting the sleepy-looking modules that do all the scutwork.
Third: if the idea is to go from and to Ableton, you've got the wrong interface altogether. See the ES-8 (and expanders) from Expert Sleepers instead. These allow direct control via Ableton's internal CV tools and/or Silent Way or Volta, plus they have four return lines for audio, various timing signals to lock Ableton to the synth's clock, cues from your CV/gate/trig environment that can affect Live's operation, and so on. MIDI interfaces are all well and good, but there's other...and in this case, better...ways to do this.
Lastly, cost-effectiveness and function density are something any modular builder/user has to address. You need to define your necessary functions first (NOT the modules) and then sort out how you can make those happen in terms of modules and module combinations. That last bit is important, because a major aspect of modular synthesis comes from how the modules in your build work with each other, and not merely that you have X, Y, and Z modules. Plus, insisting on X, Y and Z modules before figuring out what they need to "play nicely together" can lead to some nasty cost and space surprises when you start factoring those actually-necessary modules into the mix.
I'd suggest tearing up the above and then going back and doing some basic research. What do the artists you mention use (that you know of)? How are they using those devices? How would you do that? Do you know your music well enough to understand how you would do that? Also, go and study some classic prebuilt synths and see how they generate the sounds they're known for, how their workflows optimize that process, and so forth. Plunging into this without the aid of extensive research will...well, just let us know when you put your money pit on Reverb, because that'll be where it winds up when you get frustrated at this little box that costs several grand but which can't accomplish jack-shit. Seriously.
Part of the problem is that you mention you want this for "techno production", but not which aspect of that, of which there are many. Is this for percussives? Bass? Leads and pads? All of it? If the latter, you're going to have quite a time of fitting something that versatile in that small a cab. NEVER start with a small cab like this...ALWAYS go with a cab that you think is too large. Invariably, you'll find that your "too large" cab is actually just fine or, if the goal is to create a unitized production device, it's STILL too small.
Second: "important" modules don't make a synthesizer work, if by "important" you actually mean "sexy". This is something I go over quite a bit on here. The ACTUAL things that make a synth a synth are the modules that seem UNimportant...VCAs, mixers, attenuation/inversion, and the like. Sure, it would be awesome if we could fill our cabs with nothing but edgy graphics, a bazillion blinkenlichts und twistenknobs, devices of arcane mystery and all of the rest of that marketing bullshit. But the truth is that you can spendspendspend on those sorts of modules and wind up with something utterly nonfunctional by neglecting the sleepy-looking modules that do all the scutwork.
Third: if the idea is to go from and to Ableton, you've got the wrong interface altogether. See the ES-8 (and expanders) from Expert Sleepers instead. These allow direct control via Ableton's internal CV tools and/or Silent Way or Volta, plus they have four return lines for audio, various timing signals to lock Ableton to the synth's clock, cues from your CV/gate/trig environment that can affect Live's operation, and so on. MIDI interfaces are all well and good, but there's other...and in this case, better...ways to do this.
Lastly, cost-effectiveness and function density are something any modular builder/user has to address. You need to define your necessary functions first (NOT the modules) and then sort out how you can make those happen in terms of modules and module combinations. That last bit is important, because a major aspect of modular synthesis comes from how the modules in your build work with each other, and not merely that you have X, Y, and Z modules. Plus, insisting on X, Y and Z modules before figuring out what they need to "play nicely together" can lead to some nasty cost and space surprises when you start factoring those actually-necessary modules into the mix.
I'd suggest tearing up the above and then going back and doing some basic research. What do the artists you mention use (that you know of)? How are they using those devices? How would you do that? Do you know your music well enough to understand how you would do that? Also, go and study some classic prebuilt synths and see how they generate the sounds they're known for, how their workflows optimize that process, and so forth. Plunging into this without the aid of extensive research will...well, just let us know when you put your money pit on Reverb, because that'll be where it winds up when you get frustrated at this little box that costs several grand but which can't accomplish jack-shit. Seriously.
-- Lugia
Hey, thanks too much for your answer.
I need the modular system first of all for leads, effects, drone sounds and sequences.
I've already made the social research what the artists i mention use and i made the rack i posted here based on the information.
But the problem is that their racks are way too expensive form me to start, so i just want something to start from, because i don't have that amount of money in one moment.
And i know the way the most synths create the sound, but the modular world seems for me a little different.
And i am not sure if the Ableton sequencing is the best, i just want to start from something to practice and make my own mistakes)
In order to get their sound you'll have to spend the $$$$$ on modules... to BEGIN with.
There aren't any shortcuts. Honestly, I'd change your focus. You're going to have to be comfortable in a modular environment first before you can make it applicable towards any kind of meaningful production.
The power of Eurorack is to go beyond a stand-alone, hardwired synth. As Lugia said, the gold is in all of the modules that aren't in the audio path but CV control.
In my experience, having a DAW involved in sound creation is very limiting because it's difficult/time consuming to modulate your DAW sequence from the Eurorack.
Total agreement, Ronin...danjas, I'd strongly suggest you consider a patchable synth first. Embarking on a course that leads into modular synths is the sort of thing that will turn into a pointless money pit very rapidly until/unless you understand the basics of synthesizers first.
First of all, THIS IS EXPENSIVE. Period. If you're going to mimic artists who have budgets to work with when you yourself don't, you're going to find all of this intensely frustrating. You're talking about an instrument which not only requires you to have the technical knowledge to configure it, but whose case alone will run you a minimum of $350-ish. And then, within that case, each row will run you between $1500-2500 (assuming 104 hp, which is the "best case" ultra-basic scenario with a Tiptop Mantis). You'll then need a pile of patchcords...so, another $150 or such, unless you're adept with wire strippers and a soldering iron. If you doubt these figures, then have a look at some preconfigured modular system (in the same general form factor as your cab above) prices: Make Noise Shared System = $4495, Pittsburgh Lifeforms Evo = $3799, Erica Techno System = $4399, Doepfer Basic System 2 = $2599, Doepfer Basic System 1 = $2549. And these are all rather basic systems, nothing really esoteric there.
Secondly, do you know your synth programming well enough to anticipate what will be necessary in addition to the "sexy" modules? In short, what will those modules need to make them work in a suitable manner...because they sure as hell won't turn sonic backflips without the other not so seemingly "important and irreplaceable modules". Ronin is spot-on when he says "...you're going to have to be comfortable in a modular environment first before you can make it applicable towards any kind of meaningful production", which brings us back to patchables. Many of us on here got our initial experiences on these, because a well-implemented patchable synth will give you the feel of a modular environment without the cost and with all of the necessary circuits to make it work as a modular synth should. Get some experience in with the basics...and then, later on, incorporate that patchable into a fully-modular setup (because that should be easy).
Third, do you know your modular environment dos, don't and whys? For example, what can happen if you patch two outputs into the same multiple? Why would that happen? How would you avoid that? This is ONE example of a myriad of examples that modular users just know, and it's also part of being "comfortable in a modular environment". Or, why do you need so many VCAs? What do you do with them? Why would you leave dedicated multiple modules out of a small build? Why would you loop an envelope? How can that be made to work like an oscillator? What's with all of these different waveforms? THESE are basics in modular (and pretty much every other) synthesis - along with lots more - that are pretty useful to have a grasp of prior to throwing out a stack o' cash. And this, again, goes back to exploring in a more sensible and less spendy manner with a patchable.
Last, why do you "need" a modular? Have you been doing music for a long enough period of time that you understand the sonic elements that are lacking in your current work, and which can only be dealt with via a modular synth? It's worth noting that techno...at its most basic...is a music that developed around what was cheap and available to musicians in American inner city environments. And as a result, this is why we have some instruments that used to be utter commercial disasters which now cost an arm and a leg (Roland TB-303, I'm lookin' right atcha!) but it's also how we know that other synths that were (and, stupidly, still sometimes are) dismissed as "toys" turned out to have massive potential, such as the Yamaha 4-op FM synths like the DX-9, 21, 27, and 100 or Casio's PDM synths in the CZ line. I have actually caused structural damage to a performance space thanks to a subbass patch I perfected on the CZ-101 (which is sitting 4 feet to my left as I type this) plus 25 kW of subs...and that synth cost me $40 at a pawn shop. Pretty effing cost-effective, if you ask me!
My advice: calm down. You probably don't totally require a modular synth, and while getting one seems like it might be a gateway to being a TEKKNO SUPAHSTAHH...the reality is that it's more likely to be a gateway to massive monetary outlay and considerable frustration. Especially with this idea that you can check out other peoples' gear and replicate it, ergo you will arrive at massive success. Nuh-uh. If that were the case, everyone who ever bought a 12-string Rickenbacker would instantly become yet another George Harrison clone...and we don't see that happening, not back in the 1960s, not now, and not ever. The real solutions here involve developing YOUR sound, YOUR abilities, YOUR knowledge base, and so on; talent, knowledge and creativity don't come in an economy-sized box on a music store shelf. Work on those first...then worry about where to go with those honed skills later!
Thanks to all of you with the answers. Maybe i didn't explain quite well my purposes.
I've been making music for about 15 years, i already have Vermona Lancet, Elektron Analog Rytm, Moog Sub37, Roland Ju-06.
So now i need something to make sequences, industrial effects and unique drones.
So i thought that Manis, Loquelic Iteritas could make percussive and dirty percussive synths sequenced on Mimetic Digitalis (i am not sure yet which one is better for making a 5-8 step/percussive melodic sequences - this one or Pico SEQ from Erica - i need the one like M185) .
Black Dual EG/LFO - will modulate the envelope for them and also add an LFO for VCO2 by Erica, which i need to make more usual waves and replace my Vermona.
Teri Ruina and Viola are for adding distortion and interesting filter resonances because i heard they have different character.
Clep Diaz - is for making the LFO wave more rhythmic.
I don't need nothing more for now, so i replaced quad VCO with the Fusion Dual VCO.
I am not interested in sexiness of the modules at all))) - that is why i asked for help, because my investigation of which modules are the best and checking the demos of their sound on youtube, have brought me here.
I absolutely don't copy the persons i mentioned - i just thought it would be more convenient to tell which sound i am working on by telling that names.
The price of the modular is important factor - that's why i plan to build it little by little.
The Mimetic has a reset input called "origin" that takes the sequencer back to the upper left corner (if you're following the lights). So you'll need another source that is sending out a gate/trigger after five beats. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Temps Utile, Pamela's New Workout, Befaco Muxlicer, a MIDI track in your sequencer dedicated to one gate output of the Mutant Brain.
The Basilimus Alter would make a better module for kick drums and simple snares than the Loquelic. It can do both with the right modulation at the right time (those non-sexy modules Lugia mentioned).
If the modular that your building doesn't have LFOs, envelopes, sample and hold, quantizers, attenuators, etc. then you have a really expensive synth that isn't even capable of doing what a semi-modular (like a $300 Neutron) can do.
Noise Engineering offers a lot of its hardware offerings as virtual plug-ins. You'd save a bunch of money and have a much more capable system keeping it all software (even if you have to buy Reason for Rack Extensions).
You can buy this rig but the amount of satisfaction you'll receive from it... not as much as you'd hope for the price.
The Mimetic has a reset input called "origin" that takes the sequencer back to the upper left corner (if you're following the lights). So you'll need another source that is sending out a gate/trigger after five beats. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Temps Utile, Pamela's New Workout, Befaco Muxlicer, a MIDI track in your sequencer dedicated to one gate output of the Mutant Brain.
The Basilimus Alter would make a better module for kick drums and simple snares than the Loquelic. It can do both with the right modulation at the right time (those non-sexy modules Lugia mentioned).
If the modular that your building doesn't have LFOs, envelopes, sample and hold, quantizers, attenuators, etc. then you have a really expensive synth that isn't even capable of doing what a semi-modular (like a $300 Neutron) can do.
Noise Engineering offers a lot of its hardware offerings as virtual plug-ins. You'd save a bunch of money and have a much more capable system keeping it all software (even if you have to buy Reason for Rack Extensions).
You can buy this rig but the amount of satisfaction you'll receive from it... not as much as you'd hope for the price.
-- Ronin1973
Thanks! So you'd recommend me not to go modular, but better buy something semi-modular like Neutron or Mother-32 or even stay virtual with my purposes?
Or i can still buy a rig, but expand it with the modules that would make the system more capable (i don't have a clue what are the attentuators for - have never used the one).
My opinion is that you're not ready to drop thousands of dollars on modular yet. You should learn more about the functionality of basic bits of kit (including attenuators/attenuverters) before buying a bunch of modules and a case. There's nothing wrong with learn-as-you-go. But unlike a self contained synth, it's very possible that you put together a collection of modules that really don't cover as much functionality as you'd need. You'd be better off buying a pre-configured system if you really want to be in the Eurorack environment without knowing how to purchase the parts for a custom system. In my opinion, the smaller of a system you're trying to put together, the harder it is to get something useful out of it. At the same time, because of real world budget limits... small systems are the entry point for people new to Eurorack.
The preconfigured systems from Roland, Pittsburgh, Erica, Make Noise, etc. are great if you have the budget to start there. Semi-modulars work on the same principle... except rather than being individual modules they are all baked into a stand-alone device.
Bottom-line... up your knowledge of synthesis before spending a lot of money on Eurorack. You'll have a better experience.
