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nb - the manhattan analogue cp3 is now called the DTM - moog's lawyers wrote them a cease and desist...

-- JimHowell1970

Might be nice if one could actually get a Moog-branded CP3...or anything else modular that's not a take-it-or-leave-it prebuild-only reissue.

Pretty...uh, well, I would say it's kickin' but you can hardly say that about a drone, right?

Man...I wish this build had an external pedal I/O on it. You could take this even further without a buttload of $$$ by snagging a bunch of the stranger/more interesting Chinese stompboxes. Normally, you would just use a pedal I/O...but it might also be interesting to feed the whole thing into an array of 'em. To that, you might want to see THIS: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriParMix--electro-harmonix-tri-parallel-mixer I've had one for a while now, and it's awesome...three parallel I/Os, controls for send and return levels, phase flip, and a "tilt"-type tone control. Takes a hot minute to wrap your head around it, but once you're there, damn...and with a bucketful of Chinese stompers, it's downright jaw-dropping.

Hello,

I purchased a 2hp Play module with the intent of making it a drum sampler. The problem, however, is that I cannot get the module to play any clip from beginning to end. I've tried all combinations of fade and gate options, but nothing seems to work. Does anyone have some advice on getting the files formatted properly and the module configured properly?

Hey all, I missed that these responses happened initially, thanks so much for putting thought into this! I actually responded to this thread a couple of weeks ago but deleted it because it was an unfocused 3am ramble haha. I've put a lot more work in over the past few months so I have some more experience to go off of and a solid collection of modules too. Still scratching my head over the layout though. Here's a draft for discussion:

The first two rows here are the main draft of the Mantis that I basically already have / am planning (draft keeps changing, these are the broad strokes through). Currently I'm swapping out the STMix / Befaco Out for the OPTX depending on whether I'm playing out or at home. The third row is stuff I'd be interested in shoehorning if space allowed (already have the Neb and the Buchla Quad) and the fourth row is stuff I already have but will likely sell.

I'm trying to decide between: 1) Sticking to the Mantis; 2) Getting a slightly bigger case to shoehorn the few extra modules my current setup seems to want; or 3) Getting a second Mantis to have a "studio" case and a "performance" case, which would give me some space to grow into. There aren't any wrong options there, just more expensive options haha.

A few design notes I'm thinking about: Lugia, that draft you put together was really helpful! I picked up the A-138s and it's quickly become a favorite utility; and I think the points about the Verbos were spot on. This draft is missing some of the utilities (lighter on VCAs, less the Frap 321, less the Quadrax), but includes some things I've ended up using a lot (Pique for modulation cv, a matrix mixer for feedback patching, Mutes for controlling that feedback patching and a sequential switch). I have the Buchla FG, which is basically a Quadrax plus expander, but I need to spend more time with it -- so far I've had fun with it but haven't really accomplished anything musically relevant, which is why the Quadrax isn't currently included in the main draft. Ended up with an Entropy over the Nano Rand because of how obnoxious the light is on the Nano, but also because I found that S+H and noise were by far my most-used functions on the Nano and the Entropy worked to fill the awkward 3-hp hole left by the Salmple. I ended up liking the overall sound and functionality of the Dipole much better than Blades (though Blades has a fantastic distortion stage) and fell in love with the sound and functionality of the ZPO, so am planning to go with it over the 258t (although the Buchla obviously sounds amazing too). Re: the Squid Salmple, it's just amazing and the current backbone of my workflow -- I love it to pieces and wouldn't trade it for a Bitbox or external sampler, though I have been curious about the Assimil8or because of its similarity to Squid (with mostly expanded functionality).

Welcoming any further feedback and I now where to look for notifications now!

EDITED Feb 23rd 2022, 22:30

Setting the stereo mixer and zeroscope aside for the moment. I went back through you notes where you mentioned a CP3. I didn't know what that was which may be the reason I forgot about it. Now it starts to make sense. I pulled Plaits and put back in the Hats module and the Manhattan Analogue CP3.

Is this more in the direction of your guidance?

Yes, Dan

use the cp3 to mix the percussion - you can get a nice bit of grit from the cp3... then you can send too a mono filter...

nb - the manhattan analogue cp3 is now called the DTM - moog's lawyers wrote them a cease and desist...

I'm so sorry, for some reason it doesn't pick up the two modules (Hats, CP3). I'm going to try to send a patch image next

Setting the stereo mixer and zeroscope aside for the moment. I went back through you notes where you mentioned a CP3. I didn't know what that was which may be the reason I forgot about it. Now it starts to make sense. I pulled Plaits and put back in the Hats module and the Manhattan Analogue CP3.

Is this more in the direction of your guidance?

Dan

kind of looking better

not convinced you need more stereo mixers unless the mixer has panning for mono inputs, which could be on a knob/trimmer and set and forget - for example pan hats slightly to the left or right to simulate someone playing or listening to a drum kit, otherwise you just end up with LCR mixing, which is fine... but not necessarily what you want/need all the time - or an auto panner, either patched from basic building blocks (an lfo, a mult, an inverter and a couple of vca channels) - or a dedicated module - I'd use the patching method if I wanted it as I don't really use auto panning - except for delays and the delay handles that for me...

NB mostly I just use centred mono percussion... which also means I only need a mono filter - if I want to filter percussion - before possibly sending to a mono->stereo reverb

plaits is great - but I can't imagine using a smaller version that the real thing... I'd've stuck to the 2hp hats - or found something else 4hp or under just to do hats - I think plaits is also adding too much in too small a space - it points towards too many voices in too small a space (for me at least)... a simple percussion kit (peaks and hats), sto, dixie and elements (4 voices) is pushing it in this size case imo - but adding plaits, kind of pushes it more out towards 5, which is definitely too much because there's too little in the way of support modules...

but do remember - I'm only giving advice and saying what I'd do and how I think - it's not prescriptive and at the end of the day you have to do what you want and learn by your own mistakes...

when they meet the rules:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/801

I've done some more work. Let's see if I can summarize it.

Removed Synthrotek VCO and Hat, replaced with KNIT a 4 hp clone of Plaits which I love; has nice percussive timbres as well as other ambient sounds (it goes where the open spot is, I have tried pasting the url twice and each time this module is missing...some kind of glitch I imagine. Use Peaks for Kick and Snare, or for it's LFO or Env as I wish.

I removed zeroscope (will use ES-9) replaced with a stereo mixer. Can I use Mosaic as a sub-mixer for drums processing? I don't know if it's buffered, and don't know if it needs to be. Thoughts?

I removed Rosie :( She can go in my next case :), added a dvca with lin/exp ability and moved it next to my Quad linear VCA.

I removed Synthrotek ADSR and replaced with Zadar (I think this is an amazing EG).

I removed QPAS and added Filter 8 by Joranalogue (more ladder filters but great sound), and added a gutsy SVF by Zlob.

As always, I look forward to your feedback.

All the best, Dan

Been listening to these tracks this morning. Some very very cool stuff here. I'm in the middle of Gloria Dei Ubique est and loving its seemingly full on randomness, but yet somehow not totally random. Dreamy and ethereal. Good work! Cheers!

Hi - I recently purchased an interesting probabilistic gate module, and I’m now noticing that it’s not in ModularGrid.

I believe this is the first module by this company: https://shop.cutelab.nyc/

Would it be possible to add them to the manufacturer’s list?

Thanks!

could you also add the black panel option? thx
-- curi

Black panel added!

Jim:
sorry here is the URL:

Okay, I'm learning a lot.
Here is another attempt:
1. removed the Synthrotek VCO and ADSR
2. Added Filter 8
3. Added Zadar
4. Added another 2 channel VCA with linear and exp. (it's in an odd place on the second row near the ES-9 but it's the only place I could go, unless I placed it nearer the "drum" module and consider use it mostly for drum voices.
Thoughts?
Am I triangulating on this or spinning into the galaxy?
Dan

@zdobins thanks for pointing out the typo, I corrected it.

One more thing: no good deed goes unpunished...

Lugia, you miss my point . . . but perhaps for good reason. I know what the 104hp "bar" contains: I have two. The problem is that the Modular Grid description states that it features two buffered mults instead of three. Or that WAS the problem: it seems that in the past 24 hours someone has corrected the mistake, as it now reads three buffered mults. And maybe that's why you, Lugia, had assumed that I had no idea what I was talking about?

Anyone want to claim responsibility for updating the description, lest Lugia continues to think that he/she/they knows best?

Cheers,
ZD

yes but an adsr is a very specific envelope...
they are usually used for keyboards - not necessarily something that you always need in a modular synth - a lot of people just use AD envelopes - or more complex ones, like from zadar...

I've been working my way through your comments.
Sorry, I meant Wasp for a filter. I think you suggested I try to maintain 3 filters, so to replace the 18hp Qpas I could put the Wasp and Polaris by Intellijel (looks pretty good). If I needed to save 2 hp I could go with Ripples 8hp and wasp 8hp for a total of 16 hp; saving 2 hp for another envelope.

So here is where I'm confused. You asked if I needed another ADSR (Synthrotek) but believed you would add another envelope. I thought ADSR was an envelope. Could you explain further? What am I looking for?
Dan

Last fall I started working on a sound exploration rack to really play around with the building blocks of synthesis a bit more, try some things that aren't so "Rings into Clouds" (though the rack has a Clouds lol) and that are more about making new sounds, sound design, testing, playing around, and doing a lot of listening. The rack has been through a few iterations but you can see it in its current state here:

I've got hours and hours of drones recorded on this thing, but recently I started doing some feedback patching (inspired by the La Synthese Humaine guy) and now have hours and hours of that too. 🤣 I've got a lot to learn still and tons of ideas, but I thought I'd share a 30 minute feedback drone from yesterday that turned out pretty well, lots of texture, phases, development... Personally I find this type of music very zen as long as it keeps moving, which this one does. So, check it out and hope you enjoy!

[

EDITED Feb 25th 2022, 18:14

Looks pretty sweet

You do realize that MG is user-sourced...or at least, most of it? As long as you don't see the green "MANUFACTURER APPROVED" stamp (which locks the listing with that to the manufacturer only), you can add the optional panels yourself.

Shouldn't that be 3 (three) x 1:4 Buffered Multiples with bi-color leds?
-- zdobbins

Nope. The Palette "bar" is more than that. It has your external DC input, power switch, the three buffered mults, two adders, four 1/4" I/O jacks, and MIDI I/O for 3.5mm TRS or USB. Pretty smart design, as those modules are useful but they tend to rob space in 3U rows. This way, they literally use NO module hp at all.

Don't forget, there's also the Temps Utile. Frankly, the more I look at that thing, the more I think it might actually be a bit above the O&_c in terms of usability.

The outputs don't go to the next input, rather they are mixed with the next output if unpatched.
-- adaris

Yuppers...it's called a "breakable mixbus". For example, you can input signals and have the module do the mixing, or you could break out two on each side to have dual 2-1 mixers for stereo. And so on...

Also, what exactly are these VCAs destined to do? There's two types, linear and exponential, and they're VERY different. Linear VCAs are for modulation, etc as they deal with control voltages in a linear fashion. But exponential VCAs are for audio, since these behave in a similar exponential manner with how we perceive loudness...like the Decibel scale, each time you go up by 1V, your level changes x10. Plus, there's DC-coupled and AC-coupled. If you're aiming to control the amplitude of signals below the range of human hearing and down to DC, you have to have DC coupling. But having DC-coupled VCAs in the AUDIO path can be potentially problematic...as in, if some DC offset goes thru the outputs of the synth, into your amp, and into the monitors. At that point, your monitors are 100% DONE if that offset level's hot enough. AC-coupled VCAs, however, won't do this as they have a frequency limitation. Hitting an exponential VCA with a DC offset in the audio signal should result in...well, nothing as far as that offset's concerned.

Hi Jim:

Perhaps a little background would be in order:
I have been playing synth modelers and samplers most of my life.

hahaha - you know that copy and paste trick I recommended above - didn't take my own advice!!! hahahaha

anyway - me too - no samplers though - but synths, guitars and recording equipment - starting at 7 with guitar - and you can work out how old I am from my username... I was staring at my trio of moogerfoogers and the cp251 controller, remembering seeing a eurorack synth in a music store that had closed and reading I think the first article about eurorack in sound on sound...

I have Beatstep Pro (4 voice cv/gate/mod) sequencer, Erica Synths Bassline desktop (with LFO, Filter, Envelop and VCA), TR-8s. Plus loads of guitars, keyboards, and Ableton Push which I run through Ableton Live; and several acoustic string and wind instruments.

similar but logic and no wind instruments! and less guitars - some went to fund my first video synth modules...

I am struggling with what I want this project to be and you are seeing that playout. I love ambient but afraid I may get bored. I love generative sounds. But ultimately would like to be able to coordinate everything for melodies and harmonies backing vocals. Also, I'd like to be able to just create Eurorack music as a standalone project.

I think ambient and generative are huge catch alls - and either or both could keep a person interested for a lifetime if they were so inclined...

I'm trying to keep the ES-9 in mind but it is tough.

please explain further...

As you know I jettisoned the sampler in favor of Pam/Peaks/Hat modules. Ableton has an amazing sampler that I can use. I needed to sub-mix my VCO voices which is why I went with Cockpit plus it has side chain compression (although now I realize I could have used DAW/ES-9).

not convinced this is a great use case for cockpit - and whilst I have compressor modules with side chain capabilities - I often just patch this up from basic building lock modules...

Anyway, I can return the Synthrotek models. I purchased them as DIY projects but are not opened and the sales manager has been wonderful to work with there. I like the QPAS mostly because I like Make Noise, and I wanted something different. But maybe I can fit a couple more VCAs (wasp?) in this space.

if it's not going to break the bank, keep them and use them as soldering practice - and debugging practice...

wasp's a filter not a vca!

I'll take another shot at this and see what you think.

I don't know how you became the sherpa for novice patchers like myself, but God bless you. You are just what I need. Thanks again for taking all the time to review and comment in a meaningful way on this layout.

All the best,
Dan

-- Dano

Never believed in a god to bless me - but thank you for the sentiment...

EDITED Feb 22nd 2022, 19:52

I actually made this a couple years ago, just posted it to SoundCloud today though, thought I'd share:

Hi Jim:

Perhaps a little background would be in order:
I have been playing synth modelers and samplers most of my life. Last fall I though I would try a semi-modular rig. I bought the "O" suite from Make Noise. So organic I fell in love.

Later, I was about to donate a beautiful humidor as I quit smoking cigars, when I thought I would repurpose it into a synth. I was interested in ambient sounds so the rig has: Plaits, Rings, Marbles, SBG and Disting MK4.

Ah but then I was minding my own business when an incredible deal on a partially outfitted eurorack became available on Reverb. I snapped it up. The case was a basic raw pine 6U 104hp with power and: STO, Evolution, Elements, Octone, Clouds, and Sputnik.

Next I found an amazing military ammo bunker from WWI which I am repurposing into a 7U 104hp case. This is the project you are now witnessing. Since then, recently, I have purchased: ES-9, Doepfer VCA, DixieII, O_c, Peaks, Pams, and Cockpit.

I have Beatstep Pro (4 voice cv/gate/mod) sequencer, Erica Synths Bassline desktop (with LFO, Filter, Envelop and VCA), TR-8s. Plus loads of guitars, keyboards, and Ableton Push which I run through Ableton Live; and several acoustic string and wind instruments.

I am struggling with what I want this project to be and you are seeing that playout. I love ambient but afraid I may get bored. I love generative sounds. But ultimately would like to be able to coordinate everything for melodies and harmonies backing vocals. Also, I'd like to be able to just create Eurorack music as a standalone project.

I'm trying to keep the ES-9 in mind but it is tough. As you know I jettisoned the sampler in favor of Pam/Peaks/Hat modules. Ableton has an amazing sampler that I can use. I needed to sub-mix my VCO voices which is why I went with Cockpit plus it has side chain compression (although now I realize I could have used DAW/ES-9).

Anyway, I can return the Synthrotek models. I purchased them as DIY projects but are not opened and the sales manager has been wonderful to work with there. I like the QPAS mostly because I like Make Noise, and I wanted something different. But maybe I can fit a couple more VCAs (wasp?) in this space.

I'll take another shot at this and see what you think.

I don't know how you became the sherpa for novice patchers like myself, but God bless you. You are just what I need. Thanks again for taking all the time to review and comment in a meaningful way on this layout.

All the best,
Dan

I wrote a really long reply, but when I was to submit I had been kicked off. UGH
I work on it again a little latter.
Thank you so much for your help
(I'll try the little "keep me logged in" button and see if it works)
-- Dano

np - it happens to us all - I have it at least once per day - best thing to do is select and copy all the response before posting - that way it's on the clipboard when you log in again - the keep me logged in checkbox doesn't function particularly well!!

I had a really great time making a video on how to build a copper tape and conductive paint touch-plate for my eurorack system. I start by making the paper mache octopus and then detail the wiring and soldering of the circuit, which uses a 9 volt battery as a voltage source. I am happy to answer any questions about it, and I hope you think its as cool as I do. Would love a like if you find it interesting. [Patch Notes in video description]

EDITED Feb 22nd 2022, 20:52

I wrote a really long reply, but when I was to submit I had been kicked off. UGH
I work on it again a little latter.
Thank you so much for your help
(I'll try the little "keep me logged in" button and see if it works)

https://blackwarriorlures.bandcamp.com/album/bonnie-the-kellog

could you also add the black panel option? thx

3 U modules I have purchased in addition to the SV-1b are Maths and polivoks.

As an alternate sound source/oscillator I 6 hp version of braids seems like a highly recommended balance to the SV_1.

I wouldn't bother with a second voice in a case this size, personally

Veils and Batumi round it out.

good choices - download the 'maths illustrated manual' - it's a great learning tool and jumping off point for patch programming - one of the most powerful techniques in modular synthesis - work your way through it a few times and try and work out how and why the patches work!

Very likely will add O-CTRL as CV sequencer.

Clocksource can either be SV-1b, O-CTRL or DAW via MIDI.

or maths

Don’t have a clock divider per se. do I need one ( not likely to need precision from this rack ) ?
-- YoungNorway

maths again - just remember though maths, like most 'swiss army knife module' can often only be used for one thing at a time...

Thanks kindly for your input.

Regarding the comments about the SV-1B, alas the unit does not have a case and thus must reside in the rack.

I have modified a fair bit since initially posting. I have purchased and installed the 1U units except for quadratt and multi fx.

3 U modules I have purchased in addition to the SV-1b are Maths and polivoks.

As an alternate sound source/oscillator I 6 hp version of braids seems like a highly recommended balance to the SV_1.

Veils and Batumi round it out.

Very likely will add O-CTRL as CV sequencer.

Clocksource can either be SV-1b, O-CTRL or DAW via MIDI.

Don’t have a clock divider per se. do I need one ( not likely to need precision from this rack ) ?

ok now the link is in - I can see stuff

cool you have peaks and clouds - great modules...

now I can rip into it

it seems very heavy on sound sources - not just the fact that imo there are too many in this size case, but they also take up too much space and there's not really enough support modules - sound modifiers, modulation sources and especially utilities - to do the number of sound sources justice...

top row:
Pams - good

now I'm assuming here that your intention is to use peaks primarily as a kick/snare - combined with the hats to make a simple percussion set up - nothing wrong with that - but I'd suggest a simple sub-mixer so you can process - filter etc the kit as one - maybe a cp3 type one that can add a bit of dirt (manhattan analog perhaps)

there's then 3 vcos - are you intending to use these as single voices? how are you going to shape notes - or are you just using them as drones? not enough vcas... not enough filters... otherwise if you are intending to use them to create a complex voice - again, there's no sub-mixing or waveshaping in the case & both the dixie and sto could benefit from sub-mixers in order to mix their waveforms before filtering etc - & I'd definitely drop the synthrotek - they don't have a good reputation for building reliable modules or customer support from what I've heeard and well ethically only the b-company really surpass them in scraping the bottom of the barrel

elements - great module - but in a case this size it's on the large size to put it mildly - I'd be tempted to switch it out for a rings - worthwhile comparing the 2 there's a lot of overlap...

es9 good - not used one but I hear they're great - can be used as an eoc mixer - if configured properly via midi (you might want an extra module to do this - or just diy some midi connectors into the case)

1u: NB I'd always get a 3rd 3u row over a 1u row the cost in terms of rails etc is the same but they only hold 1/4 of the functionality and I've never seen a compelling module that's only available in 1u & 3.5" is, well, only 3.5" - but others seem to like them...

o&c - it's popular... not convinced...

zeroscope - again not convinced - as you have the es9 I'd just use a free one in vcv rack - when needed - I've got an es8 and quite frankly I've never found a need for a scope yet in over 5 years

2 sub-mixers - it's a good start... but you've used one for the drums and one for dixie - you need more of these...

cockpit - well at least it's not as annoying as the 3u version - inputs aren't on stereo jacks... but I think it's kind of superfluous - in that it's over specified for a sub-mixer - and there's a mixer in the es9 and then there's the sputnik - but see below for that

bottom row:
evolution - a big filter - maybe too big in this size case

octone - hmm - looks complicated - and it only has one pitch out - which is fine but then I'd want a buffered mult to send the pitch accurately to different sound sources - personally I'd want a 3-4 track sequencer in here given the number of sound sources

qpas - again a big filter and too big - I think I'd want at least 3 filters given the number of sound sources - 1 for the percussion, 1 for the sto, 1 for dixie...

adsr - again synthrotek - see above - but do you really need a adsr? I'd want more envelopes -but I'd probably use Pams - and you have...

Maths - brilliant module - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' work your way through it a few times and use it as a jumping off point for patch-programming - one of the most powerful techniques in modular - but saying that I'd also want all the basic functionality duplicated in other modules - why? because when you use Maths for something interesting (ie something you've patch programmed it to do - bouncing ball etc etc) then you can't really use it for anything else - and if you use it as 2 basic envelopes/lfos and a couple of attenuverters - then you can't useit for anything interesting...

quad vca - good start - I'd want more - they're not just for audio - they're incredibly useful for modulation too - I'd go veils over this as it's got a few more useful features - ok it's an extra 2hp and a little more expensive - but it has 20db of gain so can be used as an external input, it has offsets and it is continuously variable between exponential and linear responses - the doepfer can be either linear or exponential iirc, but to change it you have to take it out of the rack and move jumpers.... pita

sputnik mixer - as far as I am aware this is another very difficult to get hold of module - sputnik may or may not be producing modules again... and I've also heard of reliability/build quality issues - but i don't know for certain - plus the es9 has mixing capabilities...

rosie - as I mentioned above I think this is discontinued - the xoh is the replacement - but do you really need an output module when you have the es9? I've never needed one other than for headphones - and there are smaller ways of dealing with that - and the es9 has headphone outs

how do I post a link to it? Where do I find the link and then how do I post it.

I already own Clouds, and just purchased a used Peaks today for a good price.

Thanks again for taking the time to look it over.

Dan

it'd really help if you posted a link to the actual rack and not a patch based on it - no mouse-over infographics or click through...

you do realise that mutable instruments peaks and clouds are discontinued - I'm also pretty sure that the sputnik mixer and rosie are the same... both peaks and clouds are available as clones in various sizes - and both of them and the other 2 may be available as used modules - but it's generally better planning on modules that are available - clouds has been replaced by beads

Shouldn't that be 3 (three) x 1:4 Buffered Multiples with bi-color leds?

Your continued comments are greatly appreciated.

So helpful, thanks! I'm going to look into the Mutant Brain.

Cheers :)

Umm... I'll take a bath with that.
-- wiggler55550

🤣🤣🤣

EDITED Feb 21st 2022, 18:13

Fun time this weekend trying various patches with modular

I even had the rare opportunity to try out the new Soma Pulsar 23 synth drum machine.

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:07

Nice stuff wishbonebrewery and thanks for the link to the Anthurium video, I'll have to give the patch a try.

All the best.

there are midi interfaces with multiple cv/gate outputs on them... cv.ocd outside the rack or hex inverter mutant brain (which is the same but a module), for example - there are quite a few more! you would be able to send multiple channels of midi from Logic -> modular this way - might be an idea to read a few manuals and watch a few videos...

I don't have a es9, but I do have an es8 - which doesn't have midi - the idea behind them is to not use midi - but cv direct from the DAW - you would use a plugin in Logic - for example Expert Sleepers Silent Way - and generate pitch/modulation/triggers/gates directly in Logic and then send them to the outputs of the ES9 - the midi implementation, afik, in es9 is to control features of the es9 - such as an internal mixer

hope this helps