Oh thanks for the quick reply Rob. It's kind of hard to put into words. I'm familiar with the envs on my sh101, teisco 60f and fenix 2 modular. I'm happy with those envs. When the D and R are set to about 5 I know what to expect. When D and R are set to shorter intervals I hear a short percussive sort of sound. On the GMSN the rules seem to be different. Like I turn the knobs to where I want it but that sweet spot isn't there. I can get a few nice sounds out of it, but it doesn't seem to be so snappy as the envs I'm used to. I bought a new doepfer hihat 808 cymbal generator so I was hoping to get some hi hats out of the synth, but the envs just weren't responding like I hoped they would. Couldn't get percussive enough without sounding a bit weird. Perhaps that's the design though. Sorry for being a twat. I really appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to respond to users. GMSN is a bargain high quality synth. That quantiser is on my wish list, looks epic :-)