Pro feedback needed

Hi everyone!

As I'm about to enter the modular world I'd like some serious feedback on a rack I believe should fit my needs, but since I only used non-modular synths and digital ones I'd really like some input here.

I need this to be an all in one stand alone sound design workspace. Mostly for non musical purposes.
It has to be extremely flexible and with a lot of modulation at disposal (thats the reason for the 2 Maths). I don't feel the need for a sequencer and if I really will need one I'll use the Midi in. And yes I'm a delay lover.

Please feel free to suggest any change or point out inconsistencies!

EDITED Jan 28th 2015, 22:10

Anybody? :)

Cheers

For one thing, you probably won't need the buffered multi. All make noise modules (wogglebug, PPs, Maths, etc have buffered outputs already. Use stackable or Intellijel hubs to save space. I'd also stretch to a 104hp case, so you could throw in a LPG, and some other utilities. Even perhaps a clock source.

And yes I'm a delay lover.
-- Tazio

Where is it? I have still to find an affordable stereo Euro digital delay myself.
Also maybe rethink your decision to not use a sequencer. In modular you can and should sequence not only notes but everything else too. The envelopes of your Maths, waves of the oscillator, etc.
Since you already have the Pressure Points, maybe a Brains would be a simple solution to do that.
Also what Exper says: clock source.

Thanks for you feedback exper!
I was under the impression that the Wogglebug would generate clock, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Great tip on the Hubs I did not know about those, I'll get one or two along with the stackcables.
Regarding the 104hp could you point me out some? I was set with the PM Cell 90 because they seemed good for width and price tag.
Also, what utilities were you thinking about?

Solitude thanks for replying!
With this setup I thought the Echophon could be a good choice, it reminds me a lot SoundToys's Crystallizer which I'm really fond of. Along with that sits the Jomox unit which packs an open feedback structure with some more fun features.
I tried to limit myself to only start with that much hp available. Of course a Brains and a Seq would be nice, but maybe in the future perhaps. I though PPs could be used as a mini 4 steps sequencer, am I wrong?

EDITED Jan 31st 2015, 12:44

Sure, Echophone, somehow I missed that... Never used it, but might at some time..

Thanks for you feedback exper!
I was under the impression that the Wogglebug would generate clock, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Great tip on the Hubs I did not know about those, I'll get one or two along with the stackcables.
Regarding the 104hp could you point me out some? I was set with the PM Cell 90 because they seemed good for width and price tag.
Also, what utilities were you thinking about?
-- Tazio

The wogglebug can generate a clock, but I'm referring to division/multiplication, etc. Things get interesting when you ping filters, delay speeds, etc at different speeds. Something like a Pamela's Workout could clock everything there, and give you probability randomization, offsets, etc.

As for case, what country are you in? There's lots of good options from 4ms, Goike, lamond (UK/eur) etc. I had a pgh 48 case, and the cost savings were not worth some of its hassles. Power wouldn't work with some modules, case was not the full size, making it off a half an hp. It also weighed a TON, even for the half size one, as pgh usea steel instead of aluminum like Goike and 4ms.
For utilities, logic, comparator, switches, etc.

A word of caution on the Echophon, it didn't go fully dry, the wet signal is always there a bit. Also there's a bug in that if you externally clock it, and stop the clock, the echophon will jump the delay speed to the fastest setting. It's quite jarring. I replaced my extortion with a Modcan dual delay and couldn't be happier. No pitch shifting, but super flexible.

Oh man! I'm so sold on the Goike. There shouldn't be any power issues right? I'm in the Uk at the moment.
As for the comparator the Disting has one and math should cover logic. Some switches would be nice for sure.

I've added a Clock divider and an Audio Input/Pre I really felt in the need for.

EDITED Jan 31st 2015, 13:58

Lamond handles the Goike designs in the UK. I would contact him, he's a super nice guy.

Maths logic is of the cv processing variety, not on/off (AND/OR/XOR) gate logic.

And I hate to say it, but that's the least useful clock divider in euro imo. It divides the opposite way you'd exist and has extreme divisions. If you want to keep it in 4hp I'd recommend the circuit Abbey g8 or animodule Tiktok which does both multiplication and division.

Oh good heads up. Makes perfect sense. Replaced!
Regarding logic do you mean something like Plog?

EDITED Jan 31st 2015, 15:12

Oh good heads up. Makes perfect sense. Replaced!
Regarding logic do you mean something like Plog?
-- Tazio

Plog is definitely good, my choice actually along with some 2hp ORs for extra. Looking like a good system (your updated one, not the one above), I'd suggest perhaps a noise source and something like an optomix and you should be set.

Good choice on the Shapeshifter btw. Its a sound designer's dream. I have 2 actually. Because its so versatile, it never feels redundant.

Ha I though the Wogglebug could generate Noise as in audio noise as well. I guess I'm wrong then. I'm used to Kyma where noise is noise.

I know I saw you are a big Intellijel fan ;)

The wogglebug would give you noise if you ramped the speed up to audio rate, but then you no longer have slow/stepped random. Just noise.

My random of choice is the SSF URA. It has a ton of random outputs, 3 stepped (one can be slewed) a smooth "flux" random, random gates, vactrol slew, etc. On that one, if you ramp it up to audio rate, the output of channel A becomes noise, while everything else can still be clocked externally. I also have a Quantum Rainbow 2 as noise. The different colored outputs are all very useful.

You have also noise in the disting as well, BUT, you can't keep counting on that for all of your utilities. It can only do one at a time! ;)

Looks like a good deal. Simple and generous!

Thanks for all your help and suggestions exper! I'm sure there will be follow ups in the future ;)

i have used the Plog and i really don't like it :(
something just rubs me wrong about programmable logic
sort of defeats the whole point
with Wogglebug and Math you have good logic
i found the A-151 rev2 to be really useful EXPANDER
you can clock it off maths or the Wogglebug or the cock divider
or even a LFO
and it can act as 2,3,4 to 1 out or 1to2,3,4 out
and you have a manuel switch
fun time fun time :) !!

EDITED Feb 1st 2015, 07:24

i have used the Plog and i really don't like it :(
something just rubs me wrong about programmable logic
-- FSK1138

It's not that it's 'programmable' it's just CV controlled. That leads to very interesting patterns that aren't static if you took the output from just one logic type. But besides that, it includes flip flop logic, which is super creative and helps in building complex, constantly changing patches. The only other logic module (especially in a smaller firm) with the basics + flip flop is the Animodule LogicOgic.

sort of defeats the whole point
with Wogglebug and Math you have good logic
-- FSK1138

That's not the same kind of logic. There's voltage logic for pulling out the peaks or inverting a combination of CV signals (maths) and there's 'digital' (on and off state) gate logic. The wogglebug outputs a clock and random burst triggers, but it has nothing to do with mixing and combining triggers.

i found the A-151 rev2 to be really useful EXPANDER
you can clock it off maths or the Wogglebug or the cock divider
or even a LFO
and it can act as 2,3,4 to 1 out or 1to2,3,4 out
and you have a manuel switch
fun time fun time :) !!
-- FSK1138

That I agree with. Sequential switches are a lot of fun. You can even turn it into a pitch sequencer if you put offset voltages into the inputs (like for instance, the 4 Center channels of your maths)
They're also handy for feeding it different clock speeds and switching between them for ratcheting effects.

• It's not that it's 'programmable' it's just CV controlled.
  ....... (o_0) "The Plog module comprises two programmable logic sections ..."
  i get your point i think you misunderstood what i mean by "programable" as opposed to hardwired
  when i use logic i like very basic hardwired ports

• with Wogglebug and Math you have good logic

• -- FSK1138
• That's not the same kind of logic.

...........i never said it was the same.. i said it was good

glad we can agree on the A-151 rev2 :)
cheers

EDITED Feb 1st 2015, 20:45

:)
Re: Logic. - I just didn't want the OP to confuse the two forms of logic, as he's a euro newcomer. Synth terms like these aren't really known/used outside of modular synths.

Yes to me it didn't make sense that there were two type of logic. As I'm now used to the way kyma modules work, where you can connect anything to anything no matter what.

Thanks both of ya for making it more clear! ;)

Ha! I though the case came with the PSU. Anybody has any suggestion regarding to that?

Just do NOT choose a make noise power supply. It's terribly noisy. I'd go with the Intellijel power as it has a ton of headroom, or a pair of the tiptop studio Zeus busboards. Both I've used and are very quiet. 4ms row power isn't bad either.

See I knew I should have asked. That's what I was going for since most of my modules will be MN. Good to know, thanks exper!

If you read up on the Muff Wiggker forum, you'll are lots of complaints about unwanted him and noise with the MN busboards. I'm kind of stuck with them for know since my cases came with them, but the minute I can, I'm swapping.

The best supplies are linear, like Doepfer uses. Super quiet and no issues as long as you stay below the power limit. The problem is, no one else wants to make a linear supply because off the licensing costs. They are also bulkier, and won't fit in today's more shallow case designs.

I'm either going to swap my MN for the Intellijel power, or design an external enclosure that will house 3-4 linear power supplies to feed into my Goike cases. (2x6u aluminum boards configured as a folding design and a 3u boat in front)

Mmmmm not a fan of bulkiness... Something like this will do right?
"TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B"

Mmmmm not a fan of bulkiness... Something like this will do right?
"TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B"
-- Tazio

Yes. That's a very good Supply. Lots of headroom for better performance. I beta tested those and the results were good. I've also used the tiptop studio Zeus and can recommend that as well.

*lots of complaints about unwanted hum and noise with the MN busboards.

isn't this a PAST issue ??
with the first shared system

i thought this was fixed ?
i spoke with tony , when he was in Montreal last summer
and he seemed aware of the problem with older busboards
i think it has more to due with running the power supply to close to i't limit

i have picked up a used SS
it was one of the first generations and it was unusable for live use (hum and noise)

the shared system was redesigned since then
the one i tried at MOOG AUDIO with ROSIE was very quiet in the headphones and on the PA

you should contact MAKE NOISE directly and ask TONY about the issue.

I have replacements. They still hum. ;)

At this point I have to get rid of them, because I hardly want to record anything.

The problem, some will say 'mine is quiet'. Then you go listen to their soundcloud page and it's an Armageddon sized racket of noise and redlined levels. Of course they won't know if there's hum then. ;)

Alright this is something I need to investigate myself too because I'll be using it solely to record its output and use it for post production. What is to your knowledge an ultra quiet one if not the Intellijel we spoke about?

Like I said, I beta tested the 4ms Row Power, the Intellijel and the Tiptop Studio Zeus. All were pretty good. There a a couple of instances with some digital modules (Pamelas workout, trigger riot) still make slight noise on their own. This wouldn't happen with a linear supply. In my situation, I put those in a 3u case that is only sequencing modules, no sound processing/generation)

• Like I said, I beta tested the 4ms Row Power, the Intellijel and the Tiptop Studio Zeus. All were pretty good. There a a couple of instances with some digital modules (Pamelas workout, trigger riot) still make slight noise on their own. This wouldn't happen with a linear supply. In my situation, I put those in a 3u case that is only sequencing modules, no sound processing/generation)
• -- exper

4ms Row Power is clean

yes you should isolate your modules if you can

1FX ,audio i/o

2VCO

3 sequencing (trigger,gate,cv,lfo,env....)

Exper I need your help once again!
As I'm about to order everything I want to make sure that, at least in your opinion, a TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B will work with an Eastwick Aero Black case. I asked London Modular but they won't make a statement about it since you need to screw the PSU on the case and they don't do it.
Also, will I need anything else like internal cables or power adapters of any sort that don't come with the PSU or the modules?

Cheers!

not sure how SKIFF friendly the TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B is ..???
the Eastwick Aero Black case. looks pretty thin

Exper I need your help once again!
As I'm about to order everything I want to make sure that, at least in your opinion, a TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B will work with an Eastwick Aero Black case. I asked London Modular but they won't make a statement about it since you need to screw the PSU on the case and they don't do it.
Also, will I need anything else like internal cables or power adapters of any sort that don't come with the PSU or the modules?

Cheers!
-- Tazio

Yes you will need the meanwell external brick. As for specifics with fitting the case, I really couldn't say. It might be best to ask east wick themselves as well as Intellijel. As far as I can tell, that case already comes with a makenoise power supply. Perhaps if you order direct from east sick, you can get an empty case, and he can make a wiring harness compatible with the Intellijel busboard.

Thanks both of you guys!

London Modular no longer ships cases with MN PSU units, they ship it with what you desire.
I guess I'll ask Intellijel!

Oh ok. Well then you'll need a wiring harness with a switch and power jack. Not sure if east sick would still include this, as the different power bricks have a few different plug sizes. Here's where communication between you, Intellijel and perhaps London mod/eastwick will need to happen. :)

After lotsa emails with manufacturers the 4MS PSU seems to be a much less head scratching way to go.

I'm having the classic pre-order panic doubt: say I was to swap the Pressure Points with a Rene' which modules would become redundant (if any) to allow me to fit it in the case?

Thanks for baring with me until the end! :)

Ah nevermind, as much as it would be cool to have there is nothing I would take out!

Just remember that 4ms row power eats up 4hp per row. You might stretch a black one to run two rows.