Still missing some of the modules that are harder to find like QPAS, Panharmonioum, disting EX.

The next three modules I'll pick up are Noise Engineering BIA, Noise Engineering MI, Erica Synths Dual FX.

I have every other module already installed.

Any thoughts or ideas on this? The big candidate for replacement is the Doepfer A-143-2 Quad ADSR (I love this thing so much tho). Also with the remaining 3hp in the bottom, I was thinking of a 2hp VCA.


looks like a fun rack to play with - but not a long term solution, at least for me...

too many voices/big shiny, expensive feature modules - not enough modulation or especially utilities (more variety of these needed to imo) more vcas is a good start - as is anything that can be used too mulltiply, modify and merge modulation

I prefer

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation (20%+ of the rack) < utilities (at least 30% of the rack)

because you can get much more variation that way

utilities are the inexpensive, dull polish that stop the expensive, shiny modules from tarnishing and makes them shine

personally I'd postpone the modules you think you want - until the next case - and get the modules you need to support the ones you've already got


Great feedback! I will definitely focus on what support modules can help with what I have now. This makes sense.


Thanks - I try to help!

a good place to start:

mutable links, kinks, shades (or any other modules that cover their functionality) - multiples of this (or parts of it) are extremely useful - either as identical modules or different ones

a matrix mixer - one of the most powerful tools in the modular synthesist's toolbox - use them for combining modulation sources, setting up feedback loops, adding send return functionality to mixers without it etc etc etc


I was on the fence about a matrix mixer, but you've really convinced me that it's just something I really need that can exponentially extend the possibilities. You are absolutely right, it would get boring quickly.

I've updated my rack with your recommendations and dropped QPAS and BAI.


Jim's spot-on, yet again...without the "boring" modules, the expensive stuff you have here can't operate to its fullest potential.

Synthesizers aren't just made up of things that make noises...you MUST have all of those utility and other sleepy-looking modules there, because without them, you have no way to directly influence modulation behavior over the other modules. If I were you, I wouldn't order or install ANY other modules at this point...instead, remove what you've NOT got on hand already, then try and rework the build to allow those. Otherwise, all you're building here is an expensive noisemaker...it won't have any of the nuance and controllability of a properly-implemented build.


If I may applaud from the cheap seats, as someone still working my way through the newbie stage, Jim and Lugia's wisdom is mighty welcome. That priority/ratio model is a helpful guide.

I meandered from 5U into euro and wound up with a hybrid rig in which the lower-functional-density 5U modules often serve as support players for the higher-density euro devices (e.g., I quickly discovered that the Synthesis Technology E370 needs a veritable army of modulation signals to live up to its full potential). I can't claim any intelligent foresight for this, but as a pleasant change, my ill-guided bumbling through life worked out rather nicely in this instance.


Thank you all so much for such great advice. I will pause on getting any newer modules and focus on a more balanced ratio. I can't express how grateful I am for the help!


If I may applaud from the cheap seats, as someone still working my way through the newbie stage, Jim and Lugia's wisdom is mighty welcome. That priority/ratio model is a helpful guide.

It's good to feel appreciated - thanks!!!

I quickly discovered that the Synthesis Technology E370 needs a veritable army of modulation signals to live up to its full potential). I can't claim any intelligent foresight for this, but as a pleasant change, my ill-guided bumbling through life worked out rather nicely in this instance.

-- oldandintheway

there are a lot of modules out there (mostly shiny expensive ones) that really need a lot of modulation to get them to work best - often needing attenuation on the way in (clouds is a good example)

I don't think any of us can claim any form of intelligent foresight - it's just what we've picked up along the way - often from making those mistakes ourselves in the process

start with too small case - check
not enough modulation - check
not enough utilities - check

4, maybe 5 years later - experience in how to build modular synths that are worthwhile and usable - in my case both audio and video - and pretty much any size


Thank you all so much for such great advice. I will pause on getting any newer modules and focus on a more balanced ratio. I can't express how grateful I am for the help!
-- marcomixtle

NP... glad we could help!


I don't think any of us can claim any form of intelligent foresight - it's just what we've picked up along the way - often from making those mistakes ourselves in the process

start with too small case - check
not enough modulation - check
not enough utilities - check

4, maybe 5 years later - experience in how to build modular synths that are worthwhile and usable - in my case both audio and video - and pretty much any size

-- JimHowell1970

Ah yes, the case dilemma. I wish Euro had the equivalent of the brilliant Box11 system from Synthesizers.com in the 5U world, which is itself a modular solution to modular systems. You can start with a single 11-U wide box and expand from there, both horizontally and vertically. And the power solutions, another great Dotcom offering that makes power a no-brainer, can grow with you easily enough. (There may well be something similar in Euro, and I haven't run across it yet.)

But I happily embrace the mad uncertainty of it all as I continue to build out furniture and cabinets in my studio, knowing I'll end up with multiple semi-self-contained systems that can be linked as needed. I gather this is fairly common :)


frap tools make one - but I think it works out quite pricey by the time you add everything up

I can make a DIY 84hp/9u case for just over 200€ - including power so I don't really look at cases that much


Interesting, thanks for sharing that one. And good point about price.

I've gone the DIY route myself, as woodworking is my other obsession. My lazy side was thinking it would be nice to be able to drop prepowered, prerailed sub-units into a cabinet of my own design so that I could focus on the woodworking side of things. One downside of this would be the constraint of the standard fixed widths (84 and 104, etc.), and I like the flexibility to choose my own widths. (My first build incorporated two 200hp rows, as I needed the width in this multipurpose cabinet/cart to accommodate a couple of keyboards.)


Actually, there's not really any "standard widths" in Eurorack. You see 84 hp (and multiples thereof) a lot but that's because 84 hp is about the limit that you can jam into a 19" rackspace. But other widths you see include 60 hp (Moog), 104 hp, 126 hp, 140 hp (Uli), 168 hp (double 19" rack width) and 197 hp (from ADDAC, using 1 meter length rails). As a rule, most cab makers tend to stay with even-numbered hp amounts since the vast majority of Eurorack modules have panel widths that come out to even numbered amounts. But not all...

The real bottleneck on sizes comes down to power issues...amounts of headers on distro boards, power load capability vs. potential load from the modules, that sort of thing. However, there ARE ways to deal with those, plus you don't exactly have to use typical Eurorack supplies...with some poking around, you can find LINEAR power supplies that fit the bill. And yeah, linear supplies are worth the expense + weight, as they're quite incapable of spewing ultrasonic rubbish onto your DC busses, and they tend to tolerate inrush behavior better than switching supplies. No radiated fields, either, aside of the usual line frequency junk (which they're usually good at filtering out).


Actually, there's not really any "standard widths" in Eurorack. You see 84 hp (and multiples thereof) a lot but that's because 84 hp is about the limit that you can jam into a 19" rackspace. But other widths you see include 60 hp (Moog), 104 hp, 126 hp, 140 hp (Uli), 168 hp (double 19" rack width) and 197 hp (from ADDAC, using 1 meter length rails). As a rule, most cab makers tend to stay with even-numbered hp amounts since the vast majority of Eurorack modules have panel widths that come out to even numbered amounts. But not all...

The real bottleneck on sizes comes down to power issues...amounts of headers on distro boards, power load capability vs. potential load from the modules, that sort of thing. However, there ARE ways to deal with those, plus you don't exactly have to use typical Eurorack supplies...with some poking around, you can find LINEAR power supplies that fit the bill. And yeah, linear supplies are worth the expense + weight, as they're quite incapable of spewing ultrasonic rubbish onto your DC busses, and they tend to tolerate inrush behavior better than switching supplies. No radiated fields, either, aside of the usual line frequency junk (which they're usually good at filtering out).
-- Lugia

Thanks for the insights on case widths. I'll keep that in mind when I build my next cabinet. (I'm trying to stick to my self-imposed moratorium on buying/building any more shiny toys until I accomplish something musically useful with all the stuff I have already bought/built :) Well, maybe one or two shiny toys if I've been a good lad...)

And you must have been reading my mind re: power. I was researching linear supplies only an hour or two ago, just to see what has come on the market since I built this system a year or so ago. I went with a low-cost switching supply to get started, figuring I could upgrade to linear later if noise became an issue. I encountered inrush issues straight away and wound up going with two supplies to split the load, even though the combined draw total was on paper comfortably below the steady-state rating of one supply on its own. (The vendor was a champ and gave me a break on the second supply.) So that lesson well learned!

I think I've lucked out so far with noise, knock on wood. I'm not hearing anything, and assuming I can trust the spectrum analyzer in Cubase, I'm not measuring anything above -100 dB. It's almost as clean as my MatrixBrute, if that's a meaningful point of comparison. Credit to the noise filtering on the distro boards, I guess.

However, on my next system I'll definitely go with linear, and may upgrade my current system sooner rather than later. I'm not happy with the way these supplies flicker on power-up and power-down; I cringe to imagine what that's doing to my expensive modules.

I like the looks of this tidy bundle from Konstant Lab: https://www.konstantlab.audio/shop/zdroj-set-high-end-linear-power-supply-bundle/ although I'd need twice as much +12V power to run my 400hp rig. Maybe they'll offer a beefier version in the months ahead.

Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)


well I was coming here to basically say the same as Lugia!

Thanks for the insights on case widths. I'll keep that in mind when I build my next cabinet. (I'm trying to stick to my self-imposed moratorium on buying/building any more shiny toys until I accomplish something musically useful with all the stuff I have already bought/built :) Well, maybe one or two shiny toys if I've been a good lad...)

that system is great - but easily circumvented

any sound is musically useful - you just have too find the right context

you could set the bar so low for good that it is almost impossible to be so bad as to warrant not being good enough so get a new module - I forgot to take the trash out - I'm not good enough to deserve a module - I emptied the moldy cheese from the fridge - I am good enough to get the module I want/need etc etc etc

obviously cash flow plays a part too

I tend to look at it as I could get knocked over by a bus tomorrow if I want it and can afford it and can find it - I buy it or build it

I like the looks of this tidy bundle from Konstant Lab: https://www.konstantlab.audio/shop/zdroj-set-high-end-linear-power-supply-bundle/ although I'd need twice as much +12V power to run my 400hp rig. Maybe they'll offer a beefier version in the months ahead.

Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)

-- oldandintheway

I have no problems running multiple power supplies (befaco and frequency central) in the same case or patching between cases - nor any need for output modules - but I do live in northern europe where there is a balanced power supply


you could set the bar so low for good that it is almost impossible to be so bad as to warrant not being good enough so get a new module - I forgot to take the trash out - I'm not good enough to deserve a module - I emptied the moldy cheese from the fridge - I am good enough to get the module I want/need etc etc etc> -- JimHowell1970

A fine strategy :)


Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)

-- oldandintheway

Quite frankly I learned so much from the different answers that it really changed my approach. I hope this helped others as well that are just getting started. As an example, I am not a lot more into my Maths, Kinks, Links, and Shades modules as I've focused a lot more on modulation. The addition of a matrix mixer will probably blow my mind and allow me to just immerse myself in the complexity.


Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)

-- oldandintheway

Quite frankly I learned so much from the different answers that it really changed my approach. I hope this helped others as well that are just getting started. As an example, I am not a lot more into my Maths, Kinks, Links, and Shades modules as I've focused a lot more on modulation. The addition of a matrix mixer will probably blow my mind and allow me to just immerse myself in the complexity.

-- marcomixtle

I'm glad I was able to be a helpful nuisance at least ha.

I'm also getting intrigued with the prospect of a matrix mixer. I'm currently experimenting with using the Intellijel Tête-Tetrapad combo in voltages mode as an automated scene manager, so to speak, where I periodically bring in a new set of 8 CV levels to shift mod amounts, move through wave tables, etc. Combining this with a matrix mixer could be great fun and/or mentally push me over the edge, either of which would be entertaining.