Is it just me or the knob for filter type is really wobbly/flimsy ?
-- wazou
It is kinda. Which is weird because most of Xaoc's knobs are really solid feeling.
I often use the sine from self-resonating filters to design kicks. Some filters are better than others for this. I've always liked the kicks I get from my Synthesis Technology E440.
Joranalogue Generate 3 was also killer at good, robust kick sounds.
As far as nice snappy percussive envelopes go, I really like using my Patching Panda Punch.
Looked into some of these myself recently -- I'd be all about the Feedback Modules one, I had an FM module a while back and was pleasantly surprised by how high quality the thing was, and the price is not bad at all -- but it was just too big for my system. So I went first with a Blue Lantern Sir-Mix-A-Lot (the full size one) and then more recently the Cosmotronic Cosmix you have pictured.
The Sir-Mix-A-Lot was actually pretty great -- six channels, two stereo aux send/returns, applicable per channel with global attenuators as well, mute switches -- it's a great bang for the buck. Couldn't really be overdriven, but I never noticed any channel bleed or anything like that; enjoyed my time with it.
However, it is also an extremely cramped panel/UI and was cutting into precious HP, so when I found a good deal on a Cosmix I traded for that. The good: much cleaner UI/panel layout -- it's nice to be able to just visually see where the sliders are at, vs. a bunch of same-y knobs; clickless mute switches (I didn't notice much clicking on the BL mute switches either, but the Cosmix are definitely true clickless); optional "drive" for a little more saturated gain/color; good sound quality and handles overdrive better than the BL; two stereo inputs. The bad: I really do miss the dual aux stereo send/returns on the Sir-Mix-A-Lot, especially as I have more and more stereo modules. The Cosmix has one mono aux out only. If that doesn't bother you though, it's a solid pick.
They’re in Australia actually.
good value :
- Ataxia (but it's pink)
-- -ADR-
Doesn't have to be!
https://www.facebook.com/audioparasites/photos/pcb.1001852220419845/1001851137086620/
I've ordered from these guys, their plates are killer.
Ah ... brings back memories of when I started in ... "84 HP is going to be plenty!" Such innocent times. The best financial advice you can give someone getting into euro is probably "don't do it!"
Glad the rack is working out though. It does become an obsession, and I often wish I could go back to when I started to emphasize a few things, most of which has already been said and some of which it sounds like you're beyond at this point, but just to add my version of agreement(s):
Beyond that, the usual stuff that's easy to forget or not see the value of: offsets and attenuators, inverters and polarizers, mixers (both DC and AC), VCAs, and lots of mults.
I have three -- maybe four if we count a Patching Panda Punch. A 4MS PEG, a Make Noise Maths, and a Velectronic AEnvelope. I also briefly used a Befaco Rampage, but had the option to keep that or the PEG, and chose the PEG because it seemed a little clearer and I liked the layout better.
The Maths I picked up pretty recently and am still warming up to it. It's perfectly fine and I like it.
But as a general EG that gets talked about less, I've always really loved and still love my 4MS PEG. It has a lot of overlap with the Maths, but has its own depth, and it's a much more intuitive, clearly-laid-out, easy-to-get-into module. For me the Maths definitely doesn't replace it, but does offer a different (if somewhat more convoluted) take on similar functionality. You can probably go a little deeper with Maths due to the inclusion of the OR/SUM/INV section, the 4 available channels, and the inclusion of onboard voltage offsets. But then again, the fact the PEG has a pair of onboard quantized clock multiplier/dividers has always been a pretty great feature, to me, particularly if you have a QCD, which the PEG will sync to without any patching if it's on the same bus. There's also more variety to the curve shapes you can apply to the envelopes of the PEG, and either channel can be independently selected to be unipolar or bipolar, with an additional unipolar +5V out dupe. And while the PEG retails for more than the Maths, secondhand you can often get them cheaper than Maths.
I think a Zadar could be super interesting, but I feel like I wouldn't get on with its digital, menu-driven nature. I did some of that with an O&C and never cared for it much, though I'm sure the Zadar can do way more. Where the Maths seems kind of opaque until you get used to it, the Zadar seems too menu-reliant. (Just for my own taste -- I've never used one, so I'm not sure, and Xaoc makes some good stuff). If your primary concern is being able to create very specific envelope shapes straight from the module, and you don't mind little menus, Zadar is probably a good pick. Coming back to the PEG again, though, I really like the balance it strikes between being (relatively) easy to "read" (and thus patch/manipulate), while still being primarily tactile and knob-driven. The Maths I have to kind of pump myself up to utilize, at least right now as I'm still getting to know it, where the PEG I've always just immediately and intuitively reached for. If I didn't have a DATA to better visualize what Maths was outputting, I don't think I'd be too crazy about it. It helps with the PEG too -- a DATA is great all around to have, really -- but doubly so with Maths.
And as for the AEnvelope by Velectronic, I absolutely love that thing, too. It's kinda niche, fairly expensive, and not unlike Maths, takes a bit of work (and tutorial viewing) to get your head around -- but once it all clicks into place and you get the feel of using it, it's really great. It's actually pretty easy to use once you walk through its features, and I don't feel the need to pipe it through my DATA as much as the others -- it's just a little intimidating at first blush. My only nitpick really would be that I always find myself wishing the second row of outputs were inverted or polarized outs -- that would make them more useful to me. But it's a minor quibble. And aesthetically speaking, there's no contest, it's a truly beautifully designed module.
And while we're talking ADSRs, I also had a Doepfer A-141-2v that I've always vaguely regretted selling. It only offers one envelope, which in my experience wasn't the snappiest in the world, but you get a lot of control over that envelope, with some interesting self-patching options. It was actually pretty interesting as a weird oscillator when self-patched. I've tried that with my PEG as well, but I feel like the Doepfer rolled with the audio-rate abuse a little better than the PEG does, you could really get it to sound like its own voice. I imagine like other Doepfer ADSRs you can get these fairly cheap, I know I sold mine at a pretty big loss secondhand, which is one of the reasons I regret selling it. And while I've never used them, the Doepfer A-140-2 and A-143-2 both seem like tremendously good values relatively to what you can get them for secondhand (or even firsthand, really).
I can also recommend the Soundforce Dual ADSR, which was what my AEnvelope replaced. I'm 100% happy with my choice, but the Soundforce was perfect while I had it -- nothing too fancy too it, but always absolutely clear at a glance with its dual slider set, good responsive envelopes, good support from the company. It's a bit big for what it does, but if space isn't at a premium and you just want something useful and easy, it fits that bill nicely.
How can the jacks be on the bottom on this?!?!
-- LunaticSound
Have to concur. Great concept, bad panel orientation.
Anything by Error Instruments. Glitchy/lo-fi/crunchy is pretty much their wheelhouse. I had a Soundscaper stand alone unit for a while, it was fairly cool. I'd love to grab a couple of their eurorack modules, but they can be hard to find in the states and international shipping is expensive.
Well, for what it's worth I just ordered some faceplates from Control and got them in maybe just slightly over a week?
I am more generally finding, like others in the US, that USPS is pretty slow lately, though I've been fortunate enough not to have the epic waits some are reporting above. I order at least something or other weekly for eurorack, be it from Perfect Circuit, Control, Reverb, or elsewhere, and haven't had a waiting time of more than maybe two weeks on anything from within the US.
I always ship my own Reverb sales via UPS. Maybe I should emphasize that in my listings more, since it's an extra cost that I eat and it seems to be more reliable. Which definitely isn't to say that UPS never has delays or issues of their own, but I feel like it's a better option, and the UPS store by me is much less unpleasant to stop in at than the local post office.
As for ordering from outside the US though, you're lucky if you can get around USPS. The costs to ship internationally via UPS are way over the top. I assume that's true with FedEx as well.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/pittsburgh-modular-flamingo
All these newer Pittsburgh Modular designs are so horrendous. Will they ever go back to that old-school sci-fi lab look, or has that ship permanently sailed? I love those modules ... it's getting hard to find them in decent condition though.
This new "goofy animals and plants" thing they seem to have going ... I mean, different strokes for different folks and all, but .. ugh. It's so polar opposite of the very cool aesthetic I've otherwise tended to associate with the company.
From the modulargrid listing, below. :D I lol'ed but at the same time have to admit I don't quite get it. Just a joke? Some kind of satirical statement? You can appear to actually order it.
"Conceptual Power Supply"
Commodity Fetishism shorts the +12, -12, and GND pins of your eurorack system's power supply together via an SPST switch. This in all likelyhood will destroy your power supply and, depending on a wide variety of factors, either at minimum damage most of your pre-existing modules or at the worst destroy them outright.
Wildfire Laboratories has no way of fully determining the result of you flipping the switch - we can, however, confirm that the switch used is rated up to 126 volts at 6 amps - far greater than any eurorack system can supply. We can thus say with confidence that the module will perform as intended and create the aforementioned connection.
Wildfire Laboratories bears absolutely no responsibility for the result of using this module. By purchasing this device you confirm that you have read this documentation and fully understand the results of using this device as intended.
Anyone used Arcaico Warhorse? Never heard of Arcaico before, someone on Modwiggler turned me onto them. Took a gander at their website, their modules look pretty badass. Warhorse is sold out at the moment, but I bookmarked their site.
Still waiting on my Phase Rotator. Disappointed to hear it's expensive for what it does, but then, looking through Xaoc's modules, I suspect they're all a little bit like that. Not dinging Xaoc, they're just one of those brands that tends to be on the pricey side. I got a good enough deal that if it doesn't take, it should be relatively easy to pawn off without much of a loss, if any. I still don't know quite why I grabbed it -- I don't even typically like phaser effects all that much -- but, I dunno ... the demo made it seem cool and at the time I felt like I'd find a good use for it.
In the non-filter arena I did get my Instruo Lubadh and NLC Multi-Band Distortion. The Lubdah I've barely touched yet, it's going to take a bit for me to sit down and deep dive on it. The NLC is already back up on Reverb ... it's just not what I assumed it would be (a distortion unit). That's what I get for impulse buying. It's actually pretty cool for what it is, certainly not exactly like anything else I've owned ... basically a ring modulator meets a quad VCA meets an EQ/band separator, with some noise/feedback generation and saturation built in. I don't mind having an extra ringmod, and while the EQ control isn't as specific or robust as I'd hoped, it could be a very useful module for things like controlling problem frequencies, saturating and adding color/sizzle, as a random noise source, and being able to CV trigger the gain of each band region independently is sort of cool, too, allowing you to create rhythms "within" a signal, if that makes sense. It also has both summed audio out and individual audio outs per band region, so ... while I'm relisting it (bc it eats up a chunk of space and wasn't what I was actually after when I bought it) I've come to find it useful enough that if it doesn't sell, I'm happy enough to keep it. I suspect there are some potential ways to use it that I haven't thought of yet that could make it uniquely valuable. I guess we'll see.
Yeah, the Morgasmatron at the very least is definitely one I'd like to own at some point.
As I often seem to do, I went on Reverb the other day with the complete intention of getting a sequencer and a VCF, and ended up buying up something completely different. I somehow came away with a Xaoc Kamieniec Phase Rotator, Nonlinearcircuits Multi-Band Distortion, and Instruo Lubadh, none of which I'd remotely intended to buy.
While not exactly a filter, I'm hoping the Phase Rotator scratches a similar kind of itch for the time being, it seemed really interesting to me, price wasn't bad, they're hard to find right now, and I like the couple little Xaoc utility modules I have pretty well. The Multi-Band Distortion I just jumped on bc it seemed a good price, I don't see them often, and I love anything that allows me some control over EQ -- if it's distortion oriented, all the better. And the Lubadh, I have no idea really ... seemed a good price for one considering it was being sold with the expander, I've wanted one since I first started modular, and I'd just watched a demo of one that got me all juiced up.
As a kind of tangential question to this thread, I wonder what people consider their favorite "budget" VCFs to be, VCFs for under $200 that hit above their pricepoint in your opinion.
@catwavez, I hear ya -- fair enough & thank you for the rundown. That's helpful and interesting. Didn't mean for my reply to be testy or whatnot, but I'm not above liking things simply because they're pretty at times, so I kinda wanted to think through my feeling about aesthetics vs. function anyway, lol.
@Lugia that's an interesting point about about "samey" racks and does make the to me otherwise baffling design of something like, say, the Moog Grandmother, more understandable (though I realize there's an all-black version as well). While my modules are mostly black, I do find it helpful at times to break up portions that sort of blend together with an accent (via any non-black module). I don't perform live, but I feel a little OCD about my evolving rack at times (not uncommon in this hobby I'd imagine) and sometimes vacillate between liking the idea of a very clean feel with a lot of consistency (an all- or mostly-(black) ADDAC system makes me salivate a bit, lol, I love the vibe of their modules -- it's like the appeal of Doepfer vintage, if DV had to clean itself up to attend a fancy social function) -- and also wanting a case that has a lot of variety and character and personality and a bit of chaos to it, continually trying modules from many different makers (maybe part of the reason I can sort of embrace Blue Lantern's aesthetics). It's going to be the mish-mash / a-little-of-everything route regardless, for various reasons, but I used to be a freelance designer and am currently an artist, so I always end up musing about the overall visual aesthetics of things, and always vacillate between enjoying extreme clarity and order, and cozy, personality-rich chaos.
@plragde -- I just looked up that module, and ... yeah, agreed, lol. Tbh despite all I've said about it, I can usually get past or come around to most module aesthetics if I have a reason to (great value, needed functionality, a useful accent/splash of something different, etc.) and can at least theoretically see the appeal of many modules ranging from Manhattan Analog to Dreadbox Chromatic, ADDAC to Blue Lantern. But occasionally an especially bad aesthetic can be a dealbreaker -- the other that comes to mind I noticed recently was a ... mm ... I think a Birdkids module, maybe? ... that had a unicorn graphic on the front and the unicorn's butthole was one of the main jacks or something like that. I get they're just having some fun, but ... man. Snazzy FX comes to mind too ... I think being aggressively psychedelically ugly is just kinda their thing, but, man ... I'd have to really want one of their modules to get past the look of most of them.
As a side note, being an aesthetically driven buyer to a small degree, it does drive me a little nuts when I can find something like an ADDAC Marble Physics in cherry red and matte black, but for some reason every vendor -- including ADDAC themselves -- wants a ton extra for the black one.
@catwavez/Lugia, I'll explain it to you. There are hundreds of modules I'm interested in. I won't be able to afford them all anytime soon, and there is a tremendous amount of cross-functionality between existing modules. I am an extremely visual and aesthetic person. This doesn't always equate to preferring the prettiest or "coolest" looking things, necessarily, but I like what I like. If it comes down to two dual filters that both perform well and do comparable things to my satisfaction, I'm going to choose the one I enjoy the aesthetics of more (unless I consider the price differential too unreasonable). Aesthetics can also overlap with functionality a bit. Recent threads I started on MI clone modules and Blue Lantern modules both received a number of comments from users dinging both for, at least in part, aesthetic reasons.
If I'm sitting and working with a module every day, then the way it looks, the way it feels, the way the knobs turn, etc. etc. -- they are subtle things that may not seem "important" to you, but I would argue it's all a part of the subjective user experience, and a part of the appeal of modular generally, at least for me. If you truly don't care about the aesthetic factor at all, why not just use Max8 and VCV and a DAW? It's way more efficient and way less expensive than populating a modular rack. Beyond that, while it's not my aesthetic of choice, I'd say that people buying up those candy-colored Dreadbox modules are doing so at least in part on the basis of enjoying the sort of cheesily, tongue-in-cheek, nostalgic aesthetic of them. Different strokes.
Thanks for the confidence vote on Dreadbox, though. It's not very specific, but I'm (honestly) happy to hear you enjoy their modules and feel they're a good value. Their modules are pretty affordable, but the very meh reviews/ratings and low cost had me wondering about them a bit, in terms of build quality, user experience, etc. As I said, there are some Dreadbox modules I am pretty interested in.
Just curious about them. I couldn't bring myself to purchase the candy-colored ones regularly available on Reverb out of aesthetic stinginess alone, but some of their other modules have interested me at times. Skimming around the modulargrid ratings however, seems to leave me with the impression their modules aren't very high-quality, with some (like the Alpha dual ADSR) receiving as low as 1 star. There's not very many ratings to go by on most of them though. I'd been really interested in the Drips at one point (which does have a high rating) and a few of the other cream-colored ones (Alpha/Beta/Theta etc.) but ... guess I was just curious if users here have used their modules much and have any opinions or experiences to share about them.
This is one of those modules that's been floating higher and higher on my potential "to get" list lately, as I'd like a dedicated sampler of some kind. I got a Squarp Rample, but while it was a very nicely made module and did what it was advertised to do, I found I just didn't really enjoy working with it much, and there are some aspects of it that seemed weirdly limiting. So I was thinking about this as a potential replacement. I'm also very interested in the Futureretro Transient, which I know is a different animal in many ways. It's mostly a matter of budget and which one I decide I'm likely to actually use more, I suppose. Anyway, always nice to see these things in action.
I haven't used a MATHS yet, but two of the first modules I got were a 4MS PEG and a Befaco Rampage, which are similar. They were both cool, but I ended up keeping the 4MS PEG and selling the Rampage. I'm not entirely sure it was the right call, but it was slightly more fun to use than the Rampage. In any case, it has been incredibly useful. I also don't see it mentioned as much when these types of complex EGs come up, so I like to throw it a mention/recommendation, bc it has been very good to me and has been a keeper from day one, where a lot of other modules have already come/gone. It has some interesting features and it's one of those tools that I use every single time I patch, almost no exceptions. And after five months or so with it there are still a couple aspects of it I need to dive a little deeper on to get the most out of (I haven't probed the possibilities of the async and qnt jacks much, or gotten all that creative with the ways its dual egs can be switched between or used to self-manipulate).
That being said, it usually actually runs a little more expensive than Maths or Rampage, and those have a few tricks that are unique to them as well. I'd love to be able to try all 3 and compare and select the one I liked the best, but for me the PEG has been way too useful to even think about trading off anytime soon. My only complaint is it can be rather "clicky" when trying to manipulate audio directly (this also seemed just as true of the Rampage, if not more so). But I mainly use the PEG to manipulate CV signals going other places, so it's usually not a big issue for me. It also may be more my own inexperience than anything particular to the module itself. ( When I first got the PEG I was approaching it more like a traditional AD(sr) which I don't think is really how its intended to be utilized.)
As for saving space with the DFAM, I recently racked my DFAM, and while it is certainly a space hog, I like it better racked and use it more when it's racked. And while it could certainly be my imagination, I feel like the audio is a little bit better too. I wondered if this had something to do with being on the same power source as everything else, but I'm not sure if that could possibly even matter, so it's probably my imagination. Nevertheless, it'll stay racked until I absolutely need the space again. I wish I could rack my Moog Werkstatt too!
https://www.imagevenue.com/ME13QXAJ
https://www.imagevenue.com/ME13QXAK
This finally happened today, can't wait to spend a bit of time with it! It was the demos of this module that sent me down the Eurorack hole to begin with, but production delays have made it a little hard to get in a timely manner.
First impression is definitely one of quality though, really nice panel and components and organization of the PCB. Very slick.
While I haven't been able to pick up any other ADDAC filters yet, I did get an ADDAC105 4-Voice Cluster which has an onboard filter, and I love the sound on that one. It's not super-crazy or anything, but just very nice, clean, sharp, and smooth. Love the ADDACs I've been able to use thus far, but I do wish they had more/better CV input options on their lower cost modules.
Yeah Doepfer is sort of great when getting into modular and sort of not so great at the same time. They are as true "modular" as you get, I think they pretty much invented it, and their modules tend to be on the technical side. Their instructions are always available but sometimes not the most readable/approachable. I've typically found their UI layouts, while always clean and consistent, to be on the needlessly unintuitive side in some cases.
Beyond that I've found with ADSRs in general that the LED indicators tend to often not behave entirely as I would expect, nor in fact the ADSRs themselves. I've found the Doepfer ADSR I have to be particularly, mm... uncooperative for my purposes, maybe we could say? ... and I prefer my dual Soundforce ADSR. But I've found ADSRs in modular generally to be a much different animal than they were in the digital applications I'd always used before -- way more sensitive and particular, often with what seem to be threshold points where a tiny millimeter of a dial turn will suddenly make a big difference to the sound even though the previous quarter-of-a-dial seemed to barely do a thing. That's often the frustrating thing for me, feeling like my "workable" area in each ADSR always falls into a very tiny range of the dial or knob. Those and EGs have definitely been a learning process for me as I've gotten into this hobby. That said when used creatively they've been a great tool ... but I don't always use them in the same straightforward ways I would in digital applications.
Anyway, all the advice already provided covers it pretty well, just empathizing with the struggle I guess.
I've only been at it for a half year or so, but the most useful to me for this purpose has been my 4MS PEG (similar to a Make Noise Maths or a Befaco Rampage). Really anything that can create multiple and CV-controllable envelopes and slews I'd think would be useful for a kind of controlled chaos aspect, when used creatively.
The Hypster sounds pretty cool, wouldn't mind trying it myself......
A thing I've been experimenting with a bit in what may be a semi-related way has been the 4MS Percussion Interface w/ Expander. The name is kind of misleadingly narrow though. It converts an incoming audio signal into a realtime CV envelope, with a sensitivity/threshold setting, sustain/decay, an optional envelope follower switch, independent amp levels for both the envelope and an inverted copy of the envelope, and has a couple other little tricks up its sleeve to boot. When you think about that creatively it offers some really interesting possibilities. For example you could feed in audio from a TV or a radio or a pre-recorded field recording or whatever, fine tune the threshold and release to be either very liberal or very conservative, and thereby have a continual incoming stream of random little CV triggers and spikes and modulations, both positive and negative, to modulate whatever other sonic parameters in your system you wish. It also wasn't terribly expensive as I recall, I think under $200 with the expander included.
Yeah Tumeni.. I think there is a name for that phenomenon, where people assign extra value to something because “x” owned/wore/touched/sneezed on it.
Me personally, I could care less if Jesus Christ rose from the grave and farted eternal love onto the thing.
(And speaking of supposedly Christian values, unless any extra money accrued via the “owned by so and so” factor is going to some kind of legitimate charity, my gut feeling is that it’s a sleazily narcissistic thing to mention, at least to the extent of branding every listing with it).
So I’m still relatively new to this as a hobby and this might be a really stupid question, but after spending a lot of time scouring Reverb listings, I have to ask … who exactly is JunkieXL and why would I care that something was owned by him?
So far, I've populated a Happy ending skiff with a pre-amp, a sample player and the main workhorses which are an Instruo Lubadh and an Arbhar and wondering what the community would subtract/add? I know some of this is purely subjective, but I'm just trying to get the most bang for the buck
Love the direction you're going based on what you describe! I'm no expert, only a half-year into modular myself, but a couple things that popped into my head right off the top:
If you want the most bang for your buck, Instruo probably isn't the way to go. Granted, those modules seem really cool, I'd love a Lubadh myself, but I'm all but certain you can replicate what you want to do with those modules with much less expensive options, and probably save a little HP in the process.
Same kinda goes for WMD, though I can understand why SCLPL would have particular appeal for your purposes.
You're going to want some VCAs (at least something like a Doepfer A-135-2, or an A-130-8) and some mixers. And some multiples, preferably buffered multiples. I imagine the ES can do some of these things, but you'll want dedicated jacks/units too. It also wouldn't surprise me if you end up wanting more ADSRs.
I might try my hand at building a skiff I'd go with for what you describe just for fun!
Yeah, I'd REALLY love to get my hands on the Marble Physics module in particular. Their big Clock Source module also makes me salivate. I went through their website the other day and bookmarked about a dozen units that I'd really, really like to at least try, and maybe own long-term. But... yeah... they are also expensive, and I am poor. Or poor relative to the expense of this hobby at least.
Lol -- Noise Engineering modules seem very popular and as far as I've seen pretty reputable, but yeah, their designs put me off too. I hate the busy panels and I could do without the Latin names too, which just make them very confusing to keep straight or intuit what kind of general category each module fits in. So I haven't taken the dive on any NE yet. There are a few that interest me though.
Same goes for the vaunted Make Noise. The black ones have a sort of appeal I guess, but seem to always be absurdly more expensive just for that (?), and the silver ones are ugly AF imo. That being said, I got a good deal on an Echophon, and like it quite well all in all, slightly wonky UI aside... certainly enough to explore other MN modules going forward.
As for BL, I feel like I should hate their designs, but most of them I actually kinda like (though a few of them are a real eyesore). Couldn't say why exactly, ADDAC or Doepfer vintage or more conservative looking modules are usually more my speed, aesthetically speaking.
Weirdly, I don't really like Mutable Instruments aesthetic all that much. I can understand the appeal, but something about their particular brand of cleanly/pristine/Helvetica-level-perfectness somehow translates to "big gay knobs / digital toy" for me at a gut level. And like NE's latin names, their gimmick with the module names all being sort of the same and giving you only the faintest clue about what kind of module it is, isn't a huge turn on to me, being fairly new to modular. (Which one is Blinds again? Veils? Shades? I have to look them up every time). Not to mention that beyond that, so far, I've been only mildly impressed by the two I've tried -- an Elements clone and a Rings non-clone. Elements was ... okay ... interesting to experiment with for a weekend or so ... but not really my thing at the end of the day. Rings is cool enough, I suppose.
Ok, I'm wayyy off topic now, but anyway lol....
Interesting, thx for sharing. I understand giving a company a berth if they're kinda generally shitty -- e.g. Behringer -- but yeah, he seems likable enough in the interview, and if the past controversy was resolved to all parties satisfaction...(shrug). And while some people don't like his designs, I kinda dig them, and some of his filters sound mean AF from the few demos I've found. I had a Mini Shimmery and it did feel on the cheaply made side -- mostly basic plastic parts, kinda loose pots, some questionable and haphazard decisions in terms of the UI arguably -- but that said, it worked perfectly fine, was interesting, did what it was supposed to do. Just wasn't really the sound I expected or was after at the time (again, scarcity of demos). I might give one of his filters a go in the near future.
Interesting about the ADDAC filter, that's another company that seems like they have really useful and nicely made modules that I don't see a lot of chit-chat about, really. I was briefly considering their Stinggy Filter, but sort of put that low on the considerations list ... I forget why, maybe not enough CV options or maybe something about the demo that left me a bit meh. But I had their Sum & Difference mixer for a few weeks and it was pretty cool, really solidly made and interesting -- but again, very little CV control over anything as I recall.
Still something about ADDAC appeals to me, though, but they tend to be a little pricey for me at the moment. I did actually recently order their 4-Voice Cluster and their expression pedal adapter, but I don't have them yet. Curious how that will go. The 4-Voice Cluster doesn't seem hugely popular, and I could see from the demo how it could be a bit one-note as a sound source, but there's something about the character of its sound that really appealed to me and feel I'd like to work with, and the price was right at the time I ordered.
looks almost too good to be true... but they've got great reviews. what's the difference between the bezel ac inlet and the 4hp dc inlet?
-- anonemoose
The 4HP goes into your rack, the bezel one needs to be mounted to/through the side/back in some way.
Has anyone used Patching Pandas filters? I enjoyed the demos for Vibrazum and Moon Phase, so those have made my "maybe" list. I've noted a few of the recommendations here, and there's a few more Doepfers I have to look up demos for, too -- they have a wider variety than I realized!
Sort of curious about Blue Lantern's as well ... people warned me off BL on another thread a bit, but a few of them look interesting and on the budget-friendly side, but they seem a little harder to find good demos for. Anyone used the Hermippe, Millipede, Lunar, Cydonia, or any other BLs VCFs?
A few others I'm vaguely eyeing are the Tiptop Z2040, Electro-Acoustic Research Model 41, Studio Electronics 8106, and Intellijel Morgasmatron. It's going to be difficult to choose just one for the immediate future. Fun, but difficult.
Damn, wish I'd known about Trogotronic when I was shopping for a PSU, for the price those specs seem terrific. I also spent too much on a so-so custom case with a shitty PSU when I got into modular earlier this year... there's a chunk of cash I really wish I had back. :( I ended up eventually replacing the included PSU with a 4MS Row Power 45 and a pair of Synthrotek's busboards, which has worked out great, but wasn't the cheapest solution. It cost more altogether than what Lugia linked, with only 2000/1400/1500 capacity. It's worked out just dandy for my purposes, but when I expand the build beyond what that PSU can handle, it's good to know about Trogotronic's offerings.
I don't have one at this time, but I'd like to know about their applications and uses. Where is a slew generator more useful than an envelope generator? How do people use them in ways that are useful and non-replicable via other ADSR/LFO/EG type modules? Thanks.
Thanks for the recommendations so far. I may need to watch some videos about different filter types to get a sense of what I'm looking for more. I mean obviously I understand LP/HP/BP etc., but when it gets into what the filter is modeled after or circuit types -- all that stuff is over my head.
I always feel like Erica Synths modules won't be worth their price, somehow, but I had their noise generator and I thought the LPF built into that was pretty fantastic -- I only sold it off because that filter had no CV control of any kind.
I generally like the filter on my Moog DFAM and Moog Werkstatt quite well ... nice and rich and acid-y to my ears.
I had a Doepfer multimode filter and found it oddly underwhelming at the time. Never used the Wasp, but have been tempted a few times.
I currently have an SH-VCF by Radical Frequencies. It's listed on Reverb. I like it pretty well, actually, and it seems sorta hard to come by ... the character of the different slope outputs are interesting and the 6db output has a pleasing grainy saturation ... but it's too deep for my skiff and I'm out of room in my main case, and I want to get money towards something with more modes.
I had a Zlob Modular multimode filter, but just didn't dig it that much. Good value for the space it took up, nothing really wrong with it, but I feel like whatever my filter(s) is/are, I should really enjoy using.
Curious about the Doepfer SEM. I'm probably interested in the more dynamic and acid-y type filters, something you can really push as an interesting soundsource, and -- importantly, I'm realizing -- something that has some kind of gain compensation for the volume loss typical of filters.
My budget for new modules isn't what it was, so any recommendations for the $100-300-ish range are of extra value to me, though long term, I'm willing to invest more for a filter that I really love and has a lot of functionality.
Looking into more filters and curious for some of your favorites you've owned/used, some you consider the most underrated, the most unique, best value, etc. etc. Any all recommendations welcome.
Hi Eexee,
If you have to put the attack up to 5-6 then I am afraid you might have another issue going on, that shouldn't be the case. I don't know which Doepfer ADSR you have, if it's just the A-140, the one I am using too, then make sure that how often you trigger your ADSR should be roughly in the rhythm of the ADSR itself as well, that's how I call that for myself, not sure how to put this properly under words.
What I mean with that is that if you offer very fast gates to a (Doepfer) ADSR/EG then make sure you put the ADSR in fast mode, i.e. put that time range switch to L (low time, so high speed) or M (medium time/speed) but not H (high time thus low speed) and visa versa so if you provide a slow trigger set the ADSR to H (high time, thus slow speed). Once that's corresponding to each other than I don't think there is a need to put the attack so high to avoid clicks.
Let me know if that works out for you and good luck. Kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular
I have the A-141-2 VCADSR/LFO unit. That's the worst case scenario, I suppose. This has three modes, x1, x10, and x100. Those seem to be like S/M/L on my other ADSR (Soundforce Dual). Patching a basic sine through a VCA and using this module to attenuate the amplitude, at x1 I need at least 3-4 to crop out the clickies, at x10 I need 2-3, and at x100 I only need 1-2 -- though all these require at least equivalent delay times. I guess that's really not so bad, though some signals fare better than others it seems to me, and in fairness, I think I do confuse the x1/x10/x100 setting at times, and haven't always chosen the most appropriate one.
That said, with my Soundforce Dual ADSR I barely have to have any attack to elimate clickies on the same wave, no more than 1 in some cases, regardless of the setting (S/M/L - Lin/Exp). I feel like I generally have more problems with clicks/pops from the Doepfer one.
I'd actually thought about selling off the Doepfer one, since I mainly use the Soundforce now, but the A-141-2 does have CV ins for each stage of the envelope with -5 to +5 attenuverters for each (which I quite like), EOA and EOR triggers, and can be patched in ways that turn it into a crazy sound source. If it could get a couple hundred for it I'd probably list it, but you can get them new for like $180-190, so I'd probably have to settle for $150 or so before shipping/fees. It's handy enough to keep around for now, though I might eventually sell/replace with a different type of envelope generator.
Hi Eexee,
That's strange that Doepfer ADSRs give you "clicks". One hint that might help is that the potentiometers should never be exactly zero for (Doepfer) ADSRs, well, of course you can do it, but perhaps that's why there are "clicks"? Just stay a little bit (really not much just a bit) away from the zero and you shouldn't face any "clicks".
I hope that helps and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular
Hmm. Paired with the Doepfer Quad VCA I have, I often have to dial the attack up to almost 5-6 to eliminate clicks on some things the Soundforce will handle more easily. Maybe it’s a linear vs exponential thing? Though the SF has both modes and they both seem better at eliminating clicks than the Doepfer does. I wonder if there’s something else I’m doing wrong…
I'm a huge fan of the Soundforce ADSR. I've found an exp adsr is really necessary to get the "pluck" out of my LPGs and VCAs/Filters. Also having control over all stages with attenuation is so great. Plus it has the ability to choose end of cycle gate, has cycling, and s/m/l stage length. It's big but it's worth it.
-- KMAbrams
I picked one of these up recently. It does a better job of removing unwanted “clicks” in the trigger/attack than my Doepfer ADSR by far, and I generally like it better than my Doepfer one. Modular ADSRs still feel really weird to me, though, coming from digital…. they never seem to perform as well or in the way I expect. But I think the Soundforce is likely going to be a keeper. I just wish it was smaller, like you you say.. it’s a lot of HP for what it does.
Interesting @klodifokan I’ll have to check and see if any of my modules have that option. I’ve got some power to spare for the moment but if I can unburden the 12v rail at all that’ll be helpful long term.
Thanks for the info @JimHowell1970
I’ve been eyeing the Sir Mix a Lot specifically actually. Curious about the controversy. My first impressions of modular getting into it were that everything was unicorns and awesomeness as far as the companies went. But aside from Behringer, I’ve seen pretty harsh things posted about Synthrotek and Tiptop and that some hobbyists won’t carry/support those brands. Blue Lantern too?
Is this ever used for anything? I started into modular about 5-6 months back, have filled up the better part of a 9U 104 HP rack, and have yet to purchase or encounter anything that utilizes the 5v rail in any way. Am I missing something? Can someone explain its purpose or why many PSUs seem to dedicate even more power to the 5v rail than the seemingly much more important -12v rail? A bit confused about this obviously.
I know this is an old thread, but I've been wondering about this myself lately.
I rarely see them mentioned in the modular discussions and channels I've followed so far. They always have modules available that seem pretty affordable for what they do, with an interesting design aesthetic, but they just seem so glossed/passed over for the most part. I briefly had a Mini-Shimmery in my "first wave" of modular purchases as I was getting into it and setting up an initial rack, and while I didn't hang onto it for the long term, it was a cool enough little unit for its price.
If anyone else has good/bad experiences with Blue Lantern or their modules, I'd be curious to hear impressions.
@nickgreenberg That touches on what I liked about the Nerdseq demo I watched -- you can punch in exact CV voltages and program specific numbers for a lot of different parameters. Here's the start of their tutorial series. I'm not sure if it does everything the USTA does, but it's a mite bit less expensive. I like patching so I don't want to get too many "mini-computers" for my system, but this one's def on my list to try at some point.
Hey @9xpad, I'm pretty new to modular too but, -- what @Greenfly said, I'd second. I have the Doepfer A-135-2 Quad VCA and was also confused at first. You need to feed an audio signal to the IN, feed the OUT into your mixer that sends the audio out to whatever speakers or external sound source you have. Set the mixer level to something audible, but set both VCA knobs to zero. Plug an ADSR envelope or LFO output into the "CV" jack on the VCA module, then slowly dial up the "CV" knob until you start to hear something. Whatever envelope you're feeding in should now be modulating the audio signal -- so if it is an oscillator drone, say, with a cycling sawtooth LFO applied, it will start chopping itself up into the sawtooth shape accordingly.
If you're getting clicking, whatever you're feeding into the CV probably has zero attack/decay slope (like a rectangle wave). Use a softer wave or slew or ADSR type envelope generator to eliminate those. You might also have something dialed in too high.
It took me a while to get used to, because I was so used to audio sources that had triggers/gates built into them fundamentally -- you trigger the sound, and it already has some kind of envelope controlling the audio applied. With a lot of modular it's just the opposite. The sound is always "on" and you have to engineer backwards to mute and control it. It's super fun but takes a little getting used to, and I still have plenty more to absorb/learn, bc like Lugia mentions there's other uses for VCAs as well.
the 'by far the best' manufacturer of mutable instruments is - mutable - ergonomically sound and great support, plus the original designer gets the money not some guy(s) who took a github plan for a module and shrunk it - mi also have great support!
I'm not sure I follow ... does Mutable Instruments oppose or have an issue with the clone builds? I'd assume that me buying one of those isn't any different than me getting a DIY and paying someone with more experience to build it, and many of the clones seem to have additional features not including in the MI version and/or attempt to improve the aesthetics or UI. Does this practice negatively impact MI in some way? It seems so prevalent that I guess I just assumed MI made these designs open source by choice and had no problem with the existing market for its designs.
Beyond that, thanks for the recommendations so far, though I am curious for more answers regarding those who have used the clone-brands and the originals -- is there really a negative difference w/ the clones? Senior-bling mentions that the clones are less "fun," -- but what's that mean to you? Do you mean the smaller sizes just make the knobs harder to navigate and work with? You mention 3 clones you've used that were superior to the MI versions -- have you used others that are inferior? If so, why?
I'm not trying to nit-pick here, I tend to prefer to go "original manufacturer" myself when possible -- I'm just trying to understand the rationale, when the clone brands would seem, at a glance, to generally offer the same or better functionality for a lower price. (Good technical support is great and all, but not a big selling point for me personally). If those brands are ripping MI off in some way, or people have found they don't replicate the MI modules very well or work as good or flake out or something like that, that's one thing. But is that really the case? More input welcome.
Been looking into getting Rings, Clouds, Tides, Beads, Grids, and Marbles, and a few of the others look interesting too. The clones obviously tend to be a lot cheaper (and fit my color scheme better) -- any recommended clone "brands" (CalSynth, Michigan Synth Works, etc.) or recommendations/favorites/disappointments, in this line? Anyone used the recent Blue Lantern Grids?
Thanks.
I love Instruo Ceis . Its a vc-ASDR but also has trigger outputs for every stage of the envelope. 🤯
For ambient slow motion things i love XAOC ZADAR
-- mamonu
I was looking at that one very recently, bc I'm thinking about picking up another ADSR. Definitely appealing ... all of the Instruo stuff looks really cool, but they're so pricey, I worry it just won't be worth the extra $ for what it does.
I remember having that same issue w/ the SQ64. Wasn't a huge fan of that sequencer.
