a couple of things to point out here:

plaits is dual mono not stereo - it has 2 outputs, but they are variations not stereo

warps is also not stereo - possibly it is in some modes - it has 2 inputs (carrier and modulator) and 2 outputs (the 'normal' output and a vca'd aux output which appears to be a mix of the input and the output) - again that doesn't make it stereo - just 2 output channels - and I'm not sure how modulating one output of plaits with the other will work in practice - if I had warps i would try

so maybe a better signal path would be both plaits -> veils -> warps -> qpas (for filtering and stereoisation) -> beads (insert more vcas as appropriate)

I'd probably skip the NoiseRainbow2 - kinks has 'noise' and marbles has a random output (Y) - probably enough in this size case

I'd probably also remove the quadrax and expander - I think that Pams and Maths should be enough modulation sources for this size case - but I would want more mixing capabilities - probably a matrix mixer, specifically for mixing modulation sources together - choice is limited by space though! and/or another quad cascading vca (take the dual out and replace?)

veils, qpas and maths would be my next modules for this and in that order

but kinks has been dicontinued - so if you can get one now get it

Thread: Korg SQ-64?

@witgezicht - I just had a quick glance through the manual - I couldn't find anything - I would contact korg support and ask them how to save the midi channel data - everything in there about saving appears to be linked to projects - as far as I can see in 5 mins - it is possible that you have to save a project and then reload it on power up to get the midi channels correct - so maybe you need to use 1 project as a template with your midi settings saved in it

My idea got a bit out of hand by including two more rows but I plan to buy it in two periods of time. I hope this revision is better as I took the whole day off to get this together. I still got two weeks till I will start the build IRL. So until then I hope this machine can grow.

Kind regards,


Not out of hand - it's given you an idea of your actual case size and power requirements

Personally I would go a lot slower than this - buy the right case and just a minimum viable synth - 1 voice (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier and whatever support modules you need for that - how to play, how to listen etc)

actually touching modules can change plans quite a lot too - especially once you first start patching

so I would then get used to that for at least a few weeks before adding anything else - and add slowly - make notes of things that you want to do but can't - ask questions etc - this will influence you as you acquire modules

Hi Vincent

I think you are trying to do too much in too small a space

too many voices - I generally think 1 per row is enough - 1 1/2 at a push - you have 2 1/2 per row

this is because you won't have the space for the modulation and utility modules that are needed to support them - unless of course you aspire to perform like you are on crack - see frenetic modular influencers and 'artists' who constantly touch and micro adjust knobs - this is what modulation and utilities are for people

saying that I think you have enough modulation - maybe too much - but no way of doing interesting things with them - combining, multing, modifying them - not enough utilities - I don't think 6 vcas is enough for 4 sound sources, even if some have built in ones & where are the submixers? and how are you doing final stage mixing? mix up? not enough channels so you can listen to all the sound sources at once!!!

NB regarding vcas - they are useful for so much more than opening and closing audio - they can also be patched as compressors, crossfaders, auto-panners and are fantastic for control voltage

rainmaker is a huge delay - and a lot of people seem to buy it and then not get on with it

midi/sequencer/pams - all have built in quantization - the scales is redundant - especially in this size case

I would keep only 2 of midi/sequencer/pams - I would drop either midi or sequencer and if I kept the midi I would go with a midi interface that can support hte number of voices in the rack - I count 5!

I'd probably also go for a better melodic sequencer - especially if you want to dial things in easily

NB changing 'chord' and keeping disparately sequenced melodies in key - ie changing a major to a minor or vice versa is quite difficult in modular - there is a brilliant solution - sinfonion, but it is large and expensive and only really of benefit once you have a polyphonic voice and at least 3 others

a good ratio to start thinking about when planning a modular is:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

and start with modules you want - add what is needed to support all these modules and leave 30% free for expansion (add 10mA/hp/rail for power to be on the safe side) and then find the right case for you

these last 2 statements will save you money (eventually) - maybe not to start with in that you will end up with a bigger, probably more expensive case - but in the long run as you will not end up buying/builidng cases as a hobby

I have a tex-mix setup - theres a tiny bit of bleed at higher volumes

not sure about with DOUTS - I have 2 3hp ones to build but that won't be for a few months yet

great advice there, as usual, @Lugia

I had a quick skim through Lugia's reply too

almost everything he says is spot on - almost always in my opinion

better to start without a planned case and work out the modules you want and the modules you need to support them + 20-30% free for expansion - rather than starting with a specific case

sounds sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

due to the < 's needing spaces around them

I agree with Lugia - also note standard size for rack cases is 19" which gives 84hp a row - not about 100hp - so unless it's a special order you may be disappointed - or you are confusing us (me) with thon rack case and purpose built 104hp thon eurorack case

also had a quick look at ASEC - music was ok, but I hate that frentic constantly micro moving knobs and touching the modular for no purpose performance style - the only module he really appeared to be paying any attention to was the erica bassline - by that I mean he twiddled those knobs for at least 2 seconds continuously at one point - he seemed to spend much more time interacting with the elektron boxes than with the modular

also I'm not convinced the DFAM is that good for "riffy hypnotic leads" - I think you would probably be better off with something else for this and for "hypnotic" I usually think of modulated reverbs and delays

Hi Glenn

have you bought these modules or are you still thinking about it?

you seem to have a lot of sound sources (morphagene, dpo, panharmonium, SWN), a few sound modifiers (panharmonium, morphagene, wasp, ripples), a sequencer and almost no support modules - including (but not limited to) modulation sources, vcas and mixing

how are you going to mix these sound sources - you have an output module? but no way of mixing to stereo (3 out of 4 your sound modifiers are mono) and no way of mixing waveforms from the dpo (other than 'final' I guess) - the only mono sound source - or combining say the outputs from swn before sending the signal to a filter

there are no delays or reverbs - really useful especially if you want to do what you have stated - you can't go wrong with an fx aid xl

not enough modulation - Stages is a great module - but it is enough on it's own for that number of modulation inputs and it is not necessarily a great first modulation source, especially for you, yes it can provide 6 envelope, but they are very short and patching it to do something else quickly eats up channels

perhaps you should look at zadar - you can get very long and varied modulation envelopes out of it

I copied the rack so I could make sure it was an swn hiding and found a load of modules hiding out of the rack - the cat was unhappy to see me! - the only module that I would recommend that you add to this rack is Maths - it's a particularly great module - especially as there is the maths illustrated supplement which documents 32 self patching ideas - and as such is a brilliant primer for modular synthesis in general - even if you don't buy the module - read the supplement!

VCAs - the vca appears to be an afterthought - VCAs are fundamentally important modules - they control the amount of a signal going through the module and they allow you to do this with a control voltage - so you don't have to do it with your hand - when patched with appropriate (and essential) modules (an lfo, a mult and a polariser/offset) you can turn 2 vcas into an auto panner, use a cascading vca - you can also use them to change the level of control voltages going to modulation sources

I would dump the pico one and replace it with something like veils (a quad cascading vca) which will also work as an input module if needed as well as a mixer

I always strongly recommend a starter set of utilities - links, kinks, shades - or similar modules (kinks has been discontinued recently - buy one if you can find one!) and a quad cascading vca (as mentioned above)

I also often recommend following this ratio to get more out of your modular for less cash:

sound sources

In the end - modular sequencing/utilities is really where eurorack starts to shine in my opinion

absolutely sequencing, modulation and how you combine, modify (via utilities) and use these to control the synth are often more important and interesting than which modules you are using to create the sounds and/or modify them

see further edits, above, but that one will have a short delay time due to the number of stages

which BBD? doepfer make a variety iirc...

I would set up the simplest possible patch

a vco into a vca into mixer - check that this makes sound (make sure that the volume is up etc)

then patch bbd in between the output of the vca and the mixer

make sure volume is up on correct channel and then play a single note with the vco - ideally very very short - as minimum delay time is 10ms - so make sure you have a noticeable delay time dialled in

make sure level on delay is not 0 - keep increasing this until you can hear the delay or have run out of travel in the knob

make sure that mix is past 12 o'clock - increase this if the previous step

another thing to do is to check the board components for signs of damage - burnt bits, bad smell, sticky residue - post pics (hi-res)

one other thing to note with doepfer modules - I have one that had the power cable on the wrong way (and not one that was just pull it out and switch it as it is connected to multiple boards) which would have been fine with unshrouded headers (which doepfer at least used to use) - but as I had shrouded ones I had to cut the key off the header to get it to fit - make sure that the red-stripe is correctly situated on both ends of the power cable

case - imo poor choice for a starter case - as are all 'beauty cases'

good examples of starter cases are doepfer lc9 or tiptop mantis

why? because they are the best value for money cases out there and have been proven over years of service - they are not so small that they will be filled immediately and they are not so big that they cannot be moved, reasonably easily

beauty cases are great as extensions to larger cases - control skiff, sequencer skiff etc - but most experienced modular synthesists will point you towards a bigger case (at least to start with) so that you can find the modules that you want and the modules that you need to support them and leave space to expand (preferably 20-30%)

saying that you should not have any compatibility issues with modules that are not too deep (check this - especially the doepfer modules - 45mm and 50mm), power looks ok - are there enough power headers? (you can get flying extensions from intellijel if not)

in terms of power you should always leave at least 25-30% headroom (to account for inaccuracies and onrush needs) on all rails - otherwise you will get unexpected results - anything from lights flashing weirdly and then switching off to burning out power supply and/or module components

quite frankly the odessa/hel combination on it's own is too big for this size case - as are to a large extent multiple voices - it's difficult to fit 2 vcos and the support modules for them in such a small case not counting the size of odessa/hel

how are you intending to play this synth? iirc to take full advantage of the polyphony of odessa you really want 4 v/oct signals just for that one module - but no sequencing or midi-> cv converter in the case - iirc there is part of one included in the case, b ut yoou still need to buy a module to use it and iirc it only has 2 sets of v/oct gate outputs - so can only play 2 notes at once

you almost definitely will want way more in the way of vcas - 2 vcas is not really enough for a single mono voice of a vco and filter - especially once you start using vcas for more interesting purposes - modulating modulation and controlling volume not just note shape, compression, cross-fading and auto panning (to name a few uses for them) - with essential supporting modules such as polarizers and offsets which you have neither of

I would advise you to start again with a bigger case and work out what modules you want and what you actually need to support them and get that verified by people here as a workable synth - this will probably work out less expensive in the long run

when you do this it is a good idea to also specify what sort of music you want to make and what your budget is (not only the starter budget, but ongoing monthly/yearly)

and I speak from experience I started with a 72hp 6u case - I ran out of space within 6 months and case number 2 had to be bought, roughly 5 years on from that I have 6 cases with a total of roughly 1500hp - looking back if I'd bought case 2 first I may never have gone past it's 208hp (a mantis)

Thread: ES-8 vs ES-9

es6 adds 6 inputs

es7 adds outputs

thanks sacguy71 - yeah that would have been my next bit of advice too - but only once a second voice is in and it is needed

Thread: ES-8 vs ES-9

@JimHowell1970 - thanks for all your replies, really appreciate your helping me along with my confusion on all this :)

If I get the ES-8...thats all I need in order to us CV Tools in Ableton Live to send/receive CV? Is it doing that via the USB?


Then for recording stuff coming from my modular/Hydrasynth, I could use the combination of the ciao and a-520 to route audio to my Focusrite?...do i have all of that right?

yes if you can get both interfaces to work simultaneously - do a search on asio4all and working with multiple audio interfaces - I'm not an expert - especially as I use a Mac - where aggregate devices work quite well

If I substitue the Ciao! with the Intellijel Audio Interface II, would that allow me to route audio into the modular setup from my Hydrasynth for any processing and then back out to my Focusrite?

yes potentially - there are many other ways to do this though - personally I'd start with veils and some attenuators

According to their website all Focusrite ¼ inch (6.35mm) jack inputs and outputs are mono balanced.
-- jb61264

In which case a balanced output module sounds like a good idea - most probably aren't balanced - Happy Nerding do a reasonably priced unbalanced to balanced converter module called the isolator - if you find you need it

things that are usually good to pair with semis will probably work perfectly

so modulation and utilities are good starting points

Maths, zadar, pams, batumi etc etc etc (they'll mostly be in the categories envelope generator, lfo or function generator)

I'd also usually recommend a utility starter set of links, kinks, shades (or similar functions in different modules) and a quad cascading vca, such as veils (veils specifically because it's more versatile than most, 10hp and reasonably inexpensive) NB kinks is discontinued so if you can find one buy it

after that I'd start thinking about adding an extra voice of some kind - probably a vco, filter and an end of chain mixer, unless you've already got that covered externally

the P6 is much more expensive because of the case fittings (tolex, handle, corner bumpers etc) - and it's a lot more convenient than an lc6 and a flightcase - plus it's less storage space for the lid of the case than for a flightcase

Thread: ES-8 vs ES-9

as the 8i6 is not DC-couplped then yes you would need something else to use CVTools

USA= unbalanced power - if the 8i6 has balanced inputs (check manual) then the general consensus is to use balanced outputs too - should = better recordings with less noise

re ciao and a-520 would be the i/o modules

Thread: ES-8 vs ES-9

@jb61264 so you have a mac or windows computer

if you are using a mac you can set up an aggregate device in macOS and then use that as the i/o for your DAW

if you are using a PC there is something called ASIO (I think) that may do similar,, but I'm sure I've heard it's not as good as the Mac

NB botht he ES8 and ES9 can be used as audio interfaces as well as for cv/gate/modulation

with both the ES8 and ES9 you can go direct into and out of them at modular levels - so there is no need for an output module

if you live in a country with balanced power you may want an output module to go to the 8i6 and an input module to raise the volume to modular levels (something like veils will do the job perfectly well - check maximum gain of exact module before buying)

although an attenuator may also do the job perfectly well if needed as an output module

my general advice is to start with nothing, if you get clipping try an attenuator in front - they are inexpensive and useful - if you still find it too noisy try an output module - but unless your outputs are balanced and your inputs are balanced then I'm not convinced it will make any difference

I think the Korg FS 2600s are unobtanium

really a 9u case is not that big 3u is about 13,5cm

make sure you get a case with decent handles and a lid and you will be good to go (doepfer briefcase stye for example) - unless you are expecting the modular to be portable by small children

hands on is good justification for anything and I understand about pam's being kind of the opposite

you may be better off with a module full of a/b (or a/off/b) switches - I have a few with 6 (diy from pusherman but they do do built for these too) - for what you describe above

if you want to play with ratcheting send a multiplied trigger from pams to a vca and open and close it with a heavily divided gate from pams with a shortish high state - so it doesn't happen that often - obviously you can mess with this more inside pams - combine using the vca as a trigger combiner (it's dc-coupled and cascading, isn't it?) - you could also use the switched multiple for this... - for me that would probably be enough - apart from ducking hats for example: send the inverse of the gate signal to a vca using it to turn on/off the hats - either the triggers or the audio depending on what you want to send it (and maybe how many channels you use for your hats!)

google - "maths illustrated supplement" - 32 self-patching ideas - from bouncing ball to drone and back

extension cables are available

redundancy is often a good thing in modular - but in a small case like this with big modules...

I think the qcd and expander is way too big for this size case - especially as pam's can do 80%, if not more of what they can do - same with the euclidean circles - Pams does euclidean too

and to some extent the same goes for compare2 - in this size case I would concentrate all my trigger/gate generation from Pam's, which has built in logic functions - not as exhaustive as compare2 - but for me that would be a next case module

I would focus more on modulation:
maybe something like maths - it's a fantastic learning tool - especially when combined with the maths illustrated supplement - available online

and utilities:
you can never have enough vcas - use them for everything - modulating modulation, note shaping and volume are only 3 basic uses - want a sidechain compressor - patch it up with a vca, want an auto-panner or a crossfader - vcas...

switches - are they going to do exactly what you want??? exactly as you want it - I have a feeling they won't - some AB switches probably would though - the switched multiple is a great module - especially when you abuse it as a gate/trigger combiner - not advised by many - see Steevio and MylarMelodies though as they both use this technique - as according to Mylar - Steevio once said to him - "I've been doing it for years and not broken anything yet!"

sub mixers - it's really useful to have a few modules scattered around that can create submixes - especially if one is featured like shades - where you also get attenuversion and a precision adder thrown in

if y0u can find kinks buy it - it is a great small and inexpensive utility module that has been discontinued recently

power - I hope you have the turbo boost wall wart and not the regular one - the modules in your rack draw too much power for the regular psu and you are at very nearly 1A on the +ve rail

you should leave at least 20-30% headroom to accommodate for inrush draw on top of what modulargrid says and I add 10mA per hp to each rail for every hp that is not filled to allow for expansion

yes it's 2hp smaller - and it keeps you mostly mutable.. for what that is worth

btw - if you can find one grab kinks - it's a really useful little module and it's recently been discontinued

i take it you mean the bottom row?

to me the quantizer and clock seem overkill when eloquencer will do both these

replace with mixers and quad cascading vcas (veils for example)

i would definitely keep the quad vca - but i'd swap to veils

yes it's a vca matrix mixer - similar to 4ms vcam but a lot smaller and without attenuaton or mutes, but you do get 4 inputs/4 outputs and 16 vcas to mix them together with - feed envelopes, lfos etc into these

delays, reverbs and lo-fi tape effects are often what I go to for when I try to make ambient ish music

exact modules are down to individual taste but I like Magneto, disting and fx aid xl for a lot of these effects as well as moogerfoogers etc

plus a lot of modulation - run through a lot of utilities

I'd agree with this

If you only ever played a piano and try to pick up the guitar or trombone or whatever, there is a learning curve - and productivity will take a nose dive until at least a certain level of skill has been attained

the same with modular - it's like just like learning a new instrument - except this one is often constantly evolving

I doubt there's that many people with them - it's doesn't appear to be in the top 100 sequencers by popularity on here

I think it's more important that the sequencer fits in your workflow and that you enjoy using it than what a few videos show

only you can really decide if it's a keeper

zadar is great, but watch out about the enocders - especially if you are buying used and are the type of synth user that constantly wiggles - I'm not so much and I just bought a new one - so fingers crossed

fx aid xl is a great and versatile fx unit in 6 hp

I would probably want something like this https://www.modulargrid.net/e/rebel-technology-mix-04

which basically gives you

ModularGrid Rack

and after that there will be the search for the next case - hint go bigger, much bigger

hhahahaha maybe

there are no 'right' directions, there are just directions

it really only depends on you and how you patch

cool - I hope you enjoy it and that it lives up to your expectations!

the spdif output will give you 2 channels - so gate and cv for instance

if you are using a mac you could try using one of the usb (or usb-c) modules from expert sleepers (the es8 or 9) as a aggregate device with the other audio interface

I'm not sure that works well on windows though

probably something similar to what you have

general cv? maybe it's more paraphonic though - but it does have rompled strings! hehe

rings can do '4 voices' at once but it's more based on resonance than 'polyphony' as such because it will only trigger one note at a time, so it's more like a (4) stringed instrument than a true polyphonic instrument

looks to me as though "make synths, not war" is gone - last blog entry is nov 2018 and I suspect that they never had dealers - have you tried the contact form?

I have the fx aid xl which is 6hp and I really like it - more space and more modulation inputs

one big plus point about it is that Igor seems to constantly post updates

there's also similar modules from erica, endorhin.es and tiptop but I don't think they have quite the versatility

personally I would keep Maths - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it, it is a great primer for patching modular synthesizers in general

I would take disting from the lower case and take everything out of the 3u row of the other case except maths and fx aid xl, then add a quad cascading vca - such as veils and a full size plaits - which would leave 12hp - branches will fit in as you already have it - pick up a kinks whilst you can - there is stock in some shops but they are discontinued and great value for money! - leave the last 2 hp free until you work out what you actually need

you can use your audio interface, the appropriate cables, probably some amplification* and possibly attenuation or an output module - I can't remember if those focusrite interfaces have balanced inputs or not - but if they do or your power is unbalanced - then a balanced output module is probably a good idea

*for amplification you could use an input module - or if you are not going to use it constantly something like MI Veils is a good buy as it has a lot of gain available, is 4 channels and is a cascading vca so can be used as a mixer - intellijel quad also does this - not many vcas do!

not sure about midi as I don't really use it that much in that way - sometimes I use cv to midi cc for controlling a video synth, but not often

but if you want midi i/o from the modular then befaco make both in and output 4 channel midi modules and are usually pretty good

do you already have an audio interface?
if so which one?

do you already have midi i/o from computer?

a single case will be much more useful than splitting them up and probably work out cheaper in the long run

buy one that has space free after all the modules you want now - allow 10mA per rail for power for these and allow 25-30% headroom (to allow for inrush)

it will also allow you to replace the 2hp vcas with a quad cascading one, such as veils - which are incredibly useful and give you 4 channels + mixing for about the same amount of cash - plus better ergonomics - same with the micro clone - full size modules are much nicer!!!

My proposal has 9 jacks, 5 pots, and a switch, in 10HP. Only one pot (the crossfader) is regularly adjusted during performance. The layout should give the crossfader a generous amount of room, free of jack connections.

This proposed panel seems generous compared to many existing modules. For example the WMD ALYS has 14 jacks, 2 pots, and a switch in 6HP. What I am proposing is actually more roomy. It will be easier to use for reasons of space and because it doesn't include unnecessary features. The whole point of this thread is that I don't wish to use the three cramped modules mentioned in the OP.

Larger mixers all have features that are inapplicable to the application I have described. That is because they are not designed for cross-fading two (and only two) stereo streams. Hence they waste space. (For other applications they might be fine.)

-- robin0112358

that's how a lot of modular companies get started - someone wants a module and it doesn't exist

all modular synths are compromises, to some extent, I would concentrate on getting something that ticks all the boxes that you need (either in a single module or a few modules) and not worry too much that there's an extra feature that so far you haven't got a need for - next week you might!

keeping with mi shades will do this

plaits has 2 rings like modes

plonk and pluck possibly

panning is quite easy to patch with vcas - mult the signal you want to pan to 2 vcas - nult the modulation source you want to use for for panning and send one copy to one of the vcas and invert and offset the other and send it to the other vca

it does indeed...

it's also half the size

but is it half as enjoyable to play with?