User Posts

@cj18 great start

I really think that the patch bay would benefit from being in the middle row...

Unfortunately I cannot fit this on 2 rows, which would have been a lot neater.

definitely not something I'd worry about

I am pretty happy with the layout, but appreciate any suggestions on position changes that will improve workflow.

I'd move the vcas up to the top row, the mixer down to the bottom row and the middle 3 of the bottom row to the middle row...

I am also looking for suggestions for additional modules. I'd love to keep it all looking uniform, if at all possible, but realise that that is pretty unlikely. I have a random assortment of other modules lying around, so I'll have no trouble filling up the space, but I want something that both looks and sounds good.

I'd want more utilities... matrix mixer, more vcas (probably a quad cascading one like a veils clone or similar, they're for cv as well as audio), at least one clock divider (square wave sub bass from audio: /2 = -1ve, /4 = -2ve) , some logic, mults, at least a dual quantizer, attenuation/attenuversion/offset (happy nerding 3 * mia for example) etc

Possibly a Pams Pro... not just clock but also lots of triggers, gates, modulation... I'd keep the clock divider above (for the reason stated) and the logic (useful outside of Pams) - but a couple of the Pams channels could be used for quantization - and/or quantized stepped random...

An extra filter might be an idea... something that sounds different...

Also, thoughts on powering? I could use 2 microZeus, but would consider trying different power options (I've only used the Zeus in the past).

I like befaco power supplies - especially the excalibus... simple, but tedious DIY, or ready built... much quieter than the uZeus and avoids the rack wart...

just bear in mind... no plan survives contact with the enemy... in this case you are the enemy...

countless times I've seen people with this attitude to start & countless times I've seen them either give up (and sell up or put the modular in a cupboard) or buy a bigger case very shortly after starting...

this is almost always caused by expecting too much from too little... constraints can be good, but too much constraint is constraining...

it's not a big deal there are many paths and learning by your own mistakes is an incredibly good one... although imo, learning from others mistakes, is significantly better...

anyway... good luck and have fun!!

hmm... I hope this is just a first pass at trying to design a modular synthesizer!

you are trying to do too much in too small a space without the support modules that are necessary to get the most out of the modules...

ie - too mnay sound sources, so missing a lot of useful (by that I meam necessary) things, particularly modulation & utilities...

I can almost definitely see what you're trying to do - 2/3 voices, some modulation, some sequencing an an effect... but it's fundamentally lacking... if you went and bought this - you would be seriously disappointed, not only because it wouldn't actually do the things you want it to, and possibly to the extent that it might be up on reverb (or elsewhere almost immediately), or in the closet gathering dust, but even if that wasnt' the case, because there's not enough space for the support modules that are actually needed to get it to do what you want...

modulation - one of the fundamentals of modular synthesis... modulate your modules & modulate your modulation... a single lfo is not enough!!

utilities: see my signature... more mixing - sub mixers for the vcos to mix them before filtering/further processing... and that's just really the beginning - I see how newbies fail at this - these components of a synthesizer are either hidden or just missing from fixed-architecture synthesizers, but they're way more important in modular than anything else, in lots of ways, they really take patching from 1:1 (ie patch cable out to patch cable in) to 1:N - patch cable out to lots of inputs - & in doing so multing, mixing and mangling those signals - this is where modular synthesis really shines, especially when combined with adequate amounts of modulation sources!!!

envelope generators... a lot of envelope generators - but only a single gate source (the sequencer) to trigger them...

sequencing - the sequencer is a single oupput... how are you envisaging sending pitch information to all the vcos? and is the same sequence sent to all vcos useful - it is if you're going to tune the lfos to intervals, but there's no way to create basslines & melodies that differ - so you can't for example play the root on the bass and a melody for a lead...

overall: take a look at my signature and specifically the formula - it's quick guide to how to get the most (versatility in patching) for the least expense & is scalable from the tiniest to the largesst conceivable modular synthesizer...

I'd also seriously recommend going to modwiggler and reading the intoductory pinned threads in the 1u & 3u subforum... and reading as many newbie threads as you can handle...

after that I'd recommend ignoring the size of the case - plan out exactly what modules you want (and those that you actually need to achieve your goals) and then build another rack here and get it checked... and then before buying anything work out the case you need to put it in - leave at least 20% free space - allow 10mA/free hp per rail... them allow at least 25-30% headroom on the power supply (to allow for inrush & potentially bad power specs)

then work out a minimal version of it... a single sound source, a single sound modifier, a single modulation source, some utilties and a sequencer etc and then buy those and start playing with it & learn those inside and out before adding more modules, slowly... and repeat... 1 or 2 modules at a time...

I know this sounds a bit boring, but it'll get you to a better place, quicker than anything else... & for less money!!!

good luck!

EDITED Sep 18th 2023, 14:30

Hey @JimHowell1970, this gives me a lot to think about, thanks.

NP

For how I'm currently mixing everything I have with a Mackie mixer and so im using the sends for reverb and delay. At one point i was trying to understand if i could just use attenuators to reduce the module output so i could still mix them in my cirrent mixer (this would also let me add effects how im doing it now for the boutique's).

you might find that the Mackie is fine without any attenuation - I used to use a Yamaha module without any and it was fine... the Mackie might have a pad feature that could help - if you experience clipping then just get an inexpensive passive attenuator (they'll always be useful) - a 2hp trim would work fine - as it's set and forget - and if you still have problems then you could try the veils clone, and then if you still have problems investigate output modules - I've never had one in 7 years, though

Your formula in your signature confirms what i was suspecting, that just some sound sources aren't going to take me far enough.
-- sporkandfoon

imo, they're often the least important thing... it's what you do with them and how you modulate the signal path that's important...

have fun!

I'd go for a full size clone if I were you.. much better ergonomics, plaits is small enough already, & you get full size knobs which are better for tuning etc...

maybe a Pams Pro would tick all your boxes, envelopes and synced modulation? as well as many other functions...

does the 03 sequencer output 1v/oct? idk...

take a look at my signature & spend some time thinking about it... especially the formula...

for utilities it's almost impossible to go wrong with a matrix mixer! and a quad cascading vca (veils clone for instance)

& you'll almost definitely want to improve your mixing from a 2hp mixer! thats much better

how are you mixing the rolland boutiques & the modules?

EDITED Sep 16th 2023, 15:39

my tesseract tex-mix also has jacks at the top... at least on the channels modules...

I think one of the major issues, to me, is that a lot of companies that are established and then try to get into the eurorack market, take a look at modules that exist, and based on what's out there, realise there's nothing wrong with doing whatever they feel like... and because they have't got a lot of modular experience, or biggish modulars themselves, don't think about a lot of simple design issues... whereas an experienced modular synthesist, with a fairl big rack would have gone... no I don't like the jack placement, or you need to do this, because... maybe that happened & maybe they just didn't listen...

b-company could have made their modules slightly better (nuts on jacks etc) and marketed under another of their brands (tc electronic for example) & modernised modules slightly to be more easily compatible with euroracl (v-trigger/s-trigger) and just cloned open source modules - without trying to add value, poorly - instead of ripping off intellijel and make noise modules and moog semis - that are still in production - they'd have got more respect from a lot of us if they'd done that...

strymon modules could do with more modulation inputs... but that may be related to the sharc chip... although I'm not sure that's the case - given the number of knobs and you caan just add a jack to the pot in hardware... so possibly down to how much space they would have taken...

z vex could have probably got away adding some extra modulation inputs and used their chinese fab (the one that makes their vexter range) - as they seem reliable and have been made for years - and made cheaper modules that would have sold enough to still warrant making them...

I think z.vex modules were made by malekko, or another known manufacturer (I don't think it was darkspace/wmd though), so maybe it was a case of not listening, or just wanting to get something out quickly.. idk...

there was also waldorf... their modules were, iirc, too big for the limited functionality...

so... other companies that want to get into the eurorack business, from a related existing business, take heed... spend some money on a proper consultant... and pay them enough that it's worth actually listening to them...

*Edit - Just saw that Jim posted at the same time I did. I agree with all of Jim's thoughts regarding small racks.

hahahahaha.... great minds etc....

I agree with all of this. You will want and need a bigger case before you know it. To get the most out of any module, you will find the need for supporting modules. Supporting modules take up space. Imagine all of the functions in a fixed architecture synth or groovebox and then realize that you will need a lot of those functions, sometimes multiple copies of each function. Bigger case than you think you need is pretty much rule #1 in modular land.

I'd go so far as to say that in lots of ways the supporting modules, modulation sources and utilities, are actually the most important modules - as they are how you gain control over the other modules!!!

Tweaking by hand is fun, but you only have two hands. BIA will require about six hands to get interesting grooves happening.

and lightening fast reactions - so you can change from kick to snare to whatever, on each beat - exhausting just thinking about it!!!!

I used the Voltage Block to get cool stuff happening when I had BIA. That's 8 lanes of sequenced modulation in 20hp, not to mention a gate source...

exactly!

How will you be mixing? Do you want to automate volume and panning? Mixers, VCAs, and more modulation sources can help with this.

and again... exactly!

Unfortunately, minimal systems usually offer minimal results. The modular world will quickly eat up a lot of space and your bank account, so make sure you understand each part of what you're getting into. What is it that a tiny incomplete eurorack is offering that a groovebox with sequencer or fixed architecture synth doesn't offer?
Have fun and good luck!

-- farkas

in other words: not to put you off, but much more research, thought and budget is almost definitely required before considering this pusuit!

to add to what @ferranadsr has said

I recently bought a MOOG Mavis to test the eurorrack waters and got inspired to take the plunge. Given my love for this thing, I'm planning to build the rest of my system around it, but within some serious constraints. I want this to be a fairly minimal system for financial and simplicity reasons, so I'm planning to get a 4u palette case (not negotiable)

I think this is utter folly, why? - see below - but if you absolutely must only have 4u - then get the biggest version there is - the 104hp... personally I'd suggest bigger, still... you will need it eventually and eventually is often much sooner than you think... remember, there is absolutely no need whatsover to fill a case - there are always blank panels and there are always cereal boxes (or similar) that can substitute for blank panels... the tiny cases are great for influencers to showcase individual modules with limited patching options and they're great as satellite, mission specific cases - sequencer, control surface etc, but as main synth cases - not so much...

Considering the constraints, I've included a pedal i/o to connect it with what will most likely be a MOOD effects pedal for some thicc reverb and looping potential. https://www.chasebliss.com/mood-mkii I've also secured a deal for a BIA and Noise Tools 1U from Craig's. Figured Steppy is a must-have for this system too, so the whole bottom rack is kind of locked in (ignoring the Mavis probably vacating).

if you wan BIA to do all your percussion for you - ie you want to use it as a percussion factory - I seriously recommend a jasmine and olive traffic module - it will allow you to program changes in the sounds of BIA...

I'm not convinced steppy is the going to do exactly what you want - please describe exactly what you envisage doing with steppy... it generates triggers - 4 of them, with only 2 places to send them...

BIA - I don't own one, but just from looking at it I can tell, that it massively benefits from modulation, something you don't have a lot of (other than some random from noise tools)... and modulation sources benefit from attenuation, attenuversion/offset... that you don't have any of if you are using the duatt as a mixer, which you will be - as you don't have any other mixer in the rack...

the effect pedal is stereo, yet you can only send/return a mono signal... is this a constraint you find acceptable? if not the you need a different interface and a way to take your mono sound sources and place them in the stereo field...

I've never built a system before and I still don't understand a lot of the utility of different components utilities like VCAs, although I hear they're pretty hot. That being said, I'm really looking for feedback about how this system could work as designed, what could/should be changed, and what the longer term potential is with whatever components that might eventually backfill the MOOG's 44hp. Ideally though, I'd like to create some music like I described with the Mavis in place for now, but please let me know if that's unrealistic. Thank you!
-- natural_causes

Seriously I'd do some research on the fundamentals of synthesis before commiting any money... ie what's a VCA, what's a filter, what's a wavefolder etc etc - the pinned topics at the top of the moduwiggler 1u& 3u subforum are a very good place to start...

NOW The Hard Part:

I don't think that you're going to be able to achieve what you want from these modules... I'm assuming that you're going to want to use the BIA as a one stop percussion factory... ok no problem - as long as you have something to change the 'program' on BIA in a purposeful way... but you haven't - see my recommendation of the Traffic module above (this is effectively what it's designed for - you can program in voltage changes that allow you to get repeatable prgoram changes on modules that can benefit from it BIA and Plaits, for instance)...

your mixing solution is poor... how are you going to mix the outputs of the BIA, the Mavis AND the pedal return... what are you going to send to the pedal, just the Mavis? just the BIA? and how are you going to listen? just on headphones or a 'laptop expansion speaker'? are you happy with mono only? see above for - modulation that needs attenuating...

Some further wisdom - from years of experience with modulars - buy a much bigger case than you think you'll need to start with... it will save you money in the long run... larger cases are cheaper per hp than tiny cases... you will get GAS & you will need it... not only this, but just taking the example of the Traffic module... there are modules you think you want and there are modules that you haven't even started to think about that you will need in order to get the most out of the modules you think you want... and to some extent the modules you want can end up being miserable without the ones you need...

take a look at my signature... think about it, think about it deeply... it's years of experience condensed into a few words... especially the formula... which is a quick guide to how to get the most versatility in patching, from the least cash...

ignore the case size for now and spend some time working out what you think you'll want (ie more than just a single voice and a percussion factory) in say a years, maybe twos, time and what you will need in order to actually get the modules to work together & then get that sanity checked... & then find and buy - or build the case on that including at least 20-30% expansion room (you will need it - estimate power consumption for unfilled space at 10mA per rail per hp) and then allow 25-30% for overhead - to work out how much power you actually need... and then get a case that fulfills those needs - hp and power...

in other words build the case around the modules that you think you will want and those that you will need in order to support them - don't try cramming modules into a tiny case - ergonomics will be shit and/or functionality will be poor - leading to a miserable experience... which can only be remedied by either spending money or selling up!

a very large proportion of people who ignore this advice buy another, bigger case within 6-12 months of buying their 1st case...

this is exactly what I did... I started with a tiny case (6u/72hp) & within 6 months it was full so I bought another bigger case, and then a few months later I started building a case - it was shoddy and consisted of planks of wood held together by blank panels and modules, but it worked - & I got better at building cases... years later I have over 1800hp of cases, mostly filled... but if I'd bought the bigger case to start with I think there's a good chance I wouldn't have gone past that - except for the discovery of video modules - which is another story entirely

Now I'm not suggesting that you spend your life savings in one go - I'm suggesting that you think ahead a bit, probably slightly. further ahead than next week or next month though... if you desperately want a BIA buy it now... they were recently discontinued, due to the chips used in them being end of lifed...

but do realise that in starting this you are probably going to be commiting a large portion of your disposable income for years to come to this - ie your current methods of entertainment: beer, drugs, transvestite hookers, cult memberships (whatever, I don't care & neither should you - they're only examples) will take a backseat... that 100 (insert local currency) is a module, not n beers, for example!!

EDITED Sep 15th 2023, 10:00

I recently released a matrix mixer; not as small as some of the others you mention, I'm afraid, though it does have built in passive mults on all ports which should help save some routing space, or splitters at least.
happy-hardware.com
-- happy-hardware

Hi @happy-hardware...

I like the mults, especially on the inputs!

had aquick read through of the description, but couldn't see hp or power requirements - but I might just be blind!!!

also are the trimmers full height ones - so compatible with the thonk trimmer toppers?

Jim

Thank you VERY much Jim,
I appreciate you taking the time detailing your answer to my questions.

No problrm...

Regarding utilities and your statement "it's possible you don't know what they are yet..."
You are absolutely correct on this one: I am looking at sequential switches, switches, logic etc...
It does make sense as I am well served with OSCs and modulation but your signature just stroke me (sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities :) Some of these utilities I understand and can see the need for them. Others remain a mistery but surely time will tell...

I think once you have a few sound sources, modulation sources and sound modifiers, utilities are the most cost effective way of getting more out of your modular... they exponentially increase the patching possibilities

I will most likely PM you (if that is ok by you) and ask some questions regarding others.

please feel free to do so...

Sorry for asking the stupid question about matrix mixers as I went and had a look on YT which clearly explained it :)

no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers...

The Doepfer one looks pretty good to me. If you have any suggestions, I will gladly read your post.

Thank you for your time, much appreciated.

Best,
Olivier
-- Loersatz

EDITED Sep 12th 2023, 19:36

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

NP...

Neither for live or studio really.
Having fun patching :)

so home (studio)

I hear you when you are saying 104hp...
Went from a racbrute 6U to the Doepfer 9U thinking (like everyone else I suppose) it would be cool...

the doepfer 9u always seems a little under powered...

And I totally understand when you refer to more utilities: the last modules I bought were actually oriented this way:
- Ladik A-541 for 2 mono OUT feeding Octatrack IN A and IN B
- Ladik A-410 Pan/Mix/VCA
- MI Links not so much for multing but rather as a precision adder
Next one will most likely be Ladik S-090 Dual Probability Skipper and then already thinking about Sequential Switches...
What other utilities do you have in mind?

all of them... by that I mean the ones you reach for and don't have... it's possible you don't know what they are yet... almost always more vcas, more mixers, more inverters, more attenuators, , logic, more offsets... I like a simple clock divider - not only because it can divide clocks, but also audio - /2 = -1ve, /4 = -2ve... square wave output... not something you get from Pams...

Could you also elaborate on matrix mixers if you don't mind?
Many thanks for taking the time.
L
-- Loersatz

4 inputs, 4 outputs, each output is a mix of the 4 inputs... really useful for combining copies of modulation to derive 4 more complex but related modulation sources from those input...

also useful for (amogst other things):

send differently attenuated versions of the same input to 4 different destinations

feedback - lets say you have a delay module, but it doesn't have feedback built in - patch one of the outputs of the matricx mixer to the in of the delay and another to wherever you want that delay to go to... pacth whatever you want to delay and the output of the delay into 2 of the inputs... mix to taste!

send/return - whtever you want to send into an in, the one of the outputs to the whatever you want to send to, output of that module back into one of the ins - another of the outs can now be used as the return

parallel processing - similar to above, but use 3 outputs to send to effects, use 3 inputs for the returns, depending on mixing you could have a clewan signal into each effect and then mix the original clean signal with 3 effected signals

stereouizer/manual panner - mono signal into input - 2 outputs become L & R - depending on relevant levels initial mono input is placed somewhere in the stereo field

I like mono ones, the doepfer particularly (ergonomics) - for most of these tasks... tbh I ihave 2 (non-doepfer) and could do with at least 1 more... 1 will be a doepfer and after that I may grab a stereo one (but only for audio) - I mostly use them for modulation

fiddling around with the buggy hard to use module placement that requires pixel perfect movements...

-- modular01

keyboard shortcuts might help with this, if you don't already use them...

is this for home/studio or performance?

if for home/studio I'd definitely consider 12u/104hp... and I'd fill the extra 104hp with utilities... this will exponentially increase patching possibilities... and I'd really look at 6u vertical-ish and 6u horizontal-ish - not perfctly - as you'll want a greater than 90 degree angle - so cables will fit...

tbh I'd also consider for live... as you'll be able to add matrix mixers and switches and other control modules... in the closest row...

EDITED Sep 11th 2023, 18:02

I think with that number of sound sources, I'd want a 4 channel sequencer... stillson hammer is discontinued... & metropolix is only 2 - I'd look at the erica black sequencer... it can do a lot - pitch, modulation & cv per channel, midi interface and it can do random...

I generally agree with @HGSynth... probably 1 modulation source and then a load of utilities... see my signature...

definitely a matrix mixer, something like happy nerding 3 * mia, comparatot, end of chain mixer, sub-mixers, more vcas etc etc

you could get something like the audio i/o which will do both in & out...

I've never needed an output module - used to run into a basic yamaha mixer without any problems... what are you running this into?

can you please post the url of your public rack... it really helps us help you!!!

I looked but neither match up to the image - jpgs are crap - no infomatics, no click through...

Thanks for your quick response, Jim, it is appreciated. Some responses to your posts below:
NP

---

I think it's a toss up between Tempi and Pams - the interfaces are quite different etc... try to work out which one you'd rather work with through watching videos and reading the manuals - Tempi is more button combination presses and Pams is more menu divey (although quite shallow and easy to learn - all channels have the same menu - but the 'programming' interface is relatively basic - the new screen - on the Pro - is apparantly much better and more informative than just some LEDs)
JimHowell1970

---

I thought about Pams (as you will have seen from the rack) and have seen mention of the Pro version, but it seems like there’s a fair amount of menu diving involved and people have said it’s a far more complicated unit than Tempi. Remains to be seen which is better for my use case, if I get one at all. I do like the idea of an all MN case though… (I know this is a silly thing to say)

you said it (the idea of a single manufacturer case being silly) & there are a few advantages - but I think the disadvantages outweigh them... part of having a modular is that it's your custom instrument - single manufacturer modulars in some way dilutes this, imo... yes you can patch it how you want and it includes whichever modules you want, but you're still sticking to a single manufacturers design philosophy... not necessarily a bad thing, but, well, not necessarily the best approach...

re Pams menu diving... it's probably the least menu-divey menu I've ever used... select which channel you want to edit, select menu, select parameter, change parameter, done... and remember that once set up you can save it as a preset and reload it... I find this much easier to deal with than remembering button press combinations (Tempi) and Pams is much more powerful in a lot of ways than Tempi... not just triggers/gates, but also modulation, envelopes, quantized stepped random, etc etc...

---

there'll definitely be a learning curve - take it slowly etc... you'll get there - it's not much different than vcv rack - except you'll have a limited number of module and a limited number of patch cables... and be able to physically control 2 differnt knobs at once...
JimHowell1970

---

Oddly this is one of the main reasons I want to get hardware, to negate the ‘endless modules’ possibilities and 'endless cables' of VCV. As nice as it is, I think all that choice isn’t necessarily a good thing. At first, perhaps, but certainly not in the long run. I think it lengthens your learning curve and as a result encumbers your ability to make useful stuff, well unless you stick to a handful of modules only. This is essentially what I'm trying to do, by just using a handful of MI modules and some utilities.

---

the tape and sound machine - don't know - maybe - the rack above - imo too much to start with and very heavily leaning towards too many voices and effects and not enough moudlation and utiliites - see my signature for some hints!
JimHowell1970

---

I know there’s at least one too many Plaits in there, but I do like the flexibility of it as a module that can be used for percussive as well as traditional voices. Any specific ideas on how to improve that silly rack in more specifically would be greatly appreciated! That's one thing I need to get a better handle on, utilities. I don't know enough about them at all.

see my post above - start slowly and grow organically and slowly...

---

probably - I use a kick sample in Logic for sync - played from my audio interface (es8) into PNW - works perfectly... I've set up Pams to start/stop/reset based on this clock... I've also heard of people using the run input similarly... I'd suspect that tempi can work the same - you may need some amplification for the clock etc...
JimHowell1970

---

Thanks, I have as yet been unable to find a definitive answer to this, specifically when it comes to using it with Cubase. It has all sorts of clock sending options, but this isn’t the typical midi clock stuff I'm used to. It’s quite important that I can do this though, since I would like to, whenever I use more rhythmically orientated and delayed sounds, for it to synchronise and play well with my other equipment and arrangements.

all DAWs are similar... the same process will work with Cubase, ProTools, Reason, Ableton, Fruity Loops etc etc... there may be different short cuts to getting it to work... ie apparently you can use a loop in Logic (& probably other DAWs) to reduce the need to copy and paste etc... but once it's done, it's done and no need to fix what is not broken!

---

depends on the midi->cv interface - I'd do some more research before committing to one - the mutant brain - now made by Erica Synths is reputedly a very good and versatile example - also available as a stand alone unit the cv.ocd - if rack space is an issue
JimHowell1970

---

This is the thing, I am not sure how this works, at all, and haven’t been able to find much information on it. Is this a module only type of solution, i.e. you need a specific midi to CV module or are there other ways of accomplishing this via some kind of converter box? Or must your midi device specifically have CV out, like the Arturia controllers?

you can use a midi->cv module, or a device with cv outputs... it's up to you...

mutant brain is a multi-channel cv->midi module...

cv.ocd is the exact same thing in an external unit...

I'd go with even less stuff to start:

Here's where I would start based on your description:
Keystep - Midi-CV

yes, but not for it's midi-> cv, but because it's got a basic cv sequencer in it... even this could be dropped and use Pams for quantized stepped random loops as a pitch and envelope 'sequencer' to start with... it's more important that you can generate some pitch & gate/envelope information than what it is at least to start with...

Clock - Pam's (for clocks and slow evolving LFO/Random)

yes - & see above! the new Pro version is probably a better buy than the older New version - consider a passive mult and an attenuator module (happy nerding 3* mia, for example) as a good way to make Pams go a bit further.. they're also good investments for the future...

Sound Source - Plaits

yes definitely a sound source, but pretty much anything will do... plaits does have the advantage of having a built in lpg (vca/filter combo) and lots of different sounds it can generate... if you do want plaits.. go for a full size clone and not a micro version... ergonomics are better and it'll be easier to tune!

Filter - to taste (Cinnamon, Ikari, Wasp, lot's of great choices)

if getting plaits... this is a nice to have, but I don't think essential, due to plaits being a voice module in a lot of ways, as well as being an oscillator... 2nd batch of modules unless you go with something other than plaits...

Sampler - BitBox Micro (also has Midi in)

could easily be in a 2nd batch... or "batch 1.5"... maybe, learn to use what you want to sample first... then add in the sampler... could be part of 1st batch, but don't start trying to patch it in before you have a grip on everything else...

External - Somethign to make connecting Mic or 1/4 instrument easy

again... maybe not in the 1st batch... something with envelope follower and gate extractor would be a good idea... befaco instrument interface (adds phantom power, xlr and quite quiet) or doepfer a-119 (noisier, but cheaper)... if you want to sample yourself playing, for instance, guitar, then think about how you are going to do play and control the sampler transports etc at the same time... there are modules to use with footswitches and expression pedals... these may be key to what you want to achieve! so you may want to get one or more of those at the same time as an external input!

Modulation - Stages/Clone for Envelopes and modulation

again maybe batch 2 - use Pams for modulation and envelopes to start with... gert this when you need more modulation...

VCA - Veils/Clone

yes... possibly one of the best investments in eurorack

FX - to taste (Morphagene and Memeophone are very good, but there are TONS of amazing FX)

not essential for learning... but probably a good idea so you can get some different sounds out of the modular from day 1.. personally I'd go for an fx aid pro, though and then add in whatever specialised effect module you want in a later batch... the fx aid pro has 200 different algorithms (covering all sorts of things including reverbs, delays, etc) and has a decent amount of modulation inputs - as well having an internal lfo... it also has a basic, if functional scope (which can be used at the same time as an effect - it uses a different input) which a lot of people seem to like as it helps them visualise waveforms - both audio and cv - and can help understanding... ears are better though... want to know what a modulation source is doing? send it to pitch input of vco and listen to it...

another great thing about the fx aid is that it also has a load of percussion algorithms... so if /when you are using a multi-channel sampler - you have those to sample and build a rhythm track from...

make sure to get the pro though... the others use LED combos to show algorithm, which needs a cheat sheet to figure out & only hold 32 algos an obviously no scope... if you get a subsequent one these are fine... as you can order the algos so the pro is the cheat sheet!

Audio Mixer - Something that interfaces with your other equipment well

you could easily use the veils clone for this to start with... just make sure to start with everything turned down...

So many modules out there it’s completely overwhelming.
-- Darclinc

yes 11k+ of modules is quite a lot... at least to start with sticking to better known/more popular brands can definitely help! and sticking to modules that are 'in production'...

what are the stated power outputs per rail for the x1 psu3?

do you mean 1 * a doepfer psu3???

if so the stated power supplies per rail are 12V / 2000mA, -12V / 1200mA, +5V/4000mA

your stated draw is:

+12V: 1936 mA
-12V: 863 mA
5V: 0 mA

and your current draw is 1850mA on the 12v...

general advice is to leave at least 25-30% headroom on each rail - you're already way over that without adding any more modules - I suspect this is a LC9 case - they're great for basic analog modules, but a bit underpowered for a lot of digital modules which you have in your case...

based on that - you may be ok, you may not be, you probably won't damage any modules, but you may blow the fuse in the case, or you may just experience issues with inrush and some modules may not power up correctly...

either way if I were you I wouldn't add that module to this case...

If it was me I'd spend the money on another case and start adding some basic analog utility modules to enhance your patching and reduce the power draw on this case and then buy the module you want

EDITED Sep 7th 2023, 20:30

well i dont know you or how you speak. this is not a speaking forum, its a writen forum. and you followed the first guy who was obviously fishing for a reaction and skirted the line between being civil and offensive. lucky you following a class act like that. but ok man thanks for the good words. and respect to your paradigm.

-- pointandclicksystems

I type as I speak... it's all just communication isn't it!?!

always best to assume the best, or at the very least, the least bad...

hey bro, this tone is what you should lead with the next time you have a negative review for someones creation. what you led with was far below the tone you are now taking. and you knew this when you trolled me. but thanks for maning up and becoming a gent.

no, you're not getting the point - I wasn't trolling - I was just making an "off the cuff, witty, albeit opinionated, observation" in reply to the previous post, not a review - to do that I'd actually have to have actually played with one of these! imo, your tome - ie taking someone else's off the cuff remark and railing against it - points to the troll, if any, being you!

but not to worry...

if you're going to take every bit of criticism and differing opinions to those of yours as trolling then that's very binary thinking! and really doesn't reflect well on you... and that in turn doesn't reflect well on your business... just take a look at Uli Behringer and the Synthrotek guy! so I would advise good grace in relation to criticism/opinions etc of your products in future!

please note that a lot can be lost in translation between an englishman and an american - despite speaking a similar language!!!

I, for example, have default settings of dry humour and sarcasm... there is never any offence intended - any offence taken (as previously stated it is impossible to give offence in the English language), is the sole responsibility of the offended...

& actually I said something quite nice - ie I think these types of module, whilst not for me, are 'clever'... I'd take that as a compliment!

.... power is provided separate from the euro rail as requirements would push past any normal PSU made for euro modules. the only thing powered by the rail are (optionally) fans and only with the intention of allowing a user to slow them down to avoid the jet engine effect.
-- pointandclicksystems

you do appear to have done a very good job of thinking at least a lot of the downsides of this... and mitigating... so good job!!

again best of luck, I hope you sell loads!

Lastly, I'm also contemplating expanding it with a Tempi module later for enhanced clocking and modulation options.

I think it's a toss up between Tempi and Pams - the interfaces are quite different etc... try to work out which one you'd rather work with through watching videos and reading the manuals - Tempi is more button combination presses and Pams is more menu divey (although quite shallow and easy to learn - all channels have the same menu - but the 'programming' interface is relatively basic - the new screen - on the Pro - is apparantly much better and more informative than just some LEDs)

Now, I have a few questions:

1. Despite having been in audio production and synths for 20+ years, how hard is this system and modules to learn?

there'll definitely be a learning curve - take it slowly etc... you'll get there - it's not much different than vcv rack - except you'll have a limited number of module and a limited number of patch cables... and be able to physically control 2 differnt knobs at once...

2. Is this system a good starting point for a modular noob and my objectives?

the tape and sound machine - don't know - maybe - the rack above - imo too much to start with and very heavily leaning towards too many voices and effects and not enough moudlation and utiliites - see my signature for some hints!

3. Can I easily sync Tempi with my DAW (Cubase) to start/stop my modular rig with my arrangement?

probably - I use a kick sample in Logic for sync - played from my audio interface (es8) into PNW - works perfectly... I've set up Pams to start/stop/reset based on this clock... I've also heard of people using the run input similarly... I'd suspect that tempi can work the same - you may need some amplification for the clock etc...

4. Is it possible to reset the units clock when starting, stopping and resetting the playhead position?

see above answer to 3

5. Can this rig somehow accept other types of MIDI, like notes from my NI S88 keyboard? What options are available or what additional equipment is needed to do this?

depends on the midi->cv interface - I'd do some more research before committing to one - the mutant brain - now made by Erica Synths is reputedly a very good and versatile example - also available as a stand alone unit the cv.ocd - if rack space is an issue

6. Are there real risks of damaging any unit/s through improper patching (e.g., outputs into outputs)?

not really with most modern modules - this may have been an issue in the past - although it may also be an old wives tale to some extent - I've accidentally patched outputs to outputs many times and had a problem... (I have a reasonable number of the modules that you have in this rack - especially the mutable ones)

hope all this helps!

still learning and playing...
I can create some nice sounds and sequences experimenting all the modules togheter

excellent....

Plaits is nice for the sounds and also wavetable add more depth when lowering the octave

Math is used as controller of some effect , it is a complicated LFO in my hands.

'maths illustrated supplement' - work through it multiple times - think about what why and how!!!

Mother 32 is so good and clean, maybe because was the first one in my hands and now I can control it better.

still thinking what module to add at my rack...
I like to play ambient and soundscapes, no drums for the moment...
Generative is also a direction

what you suggest?

-- centecente

ambient soudnscapes - reverb and delay are great for this... especially when subtly modulated! - percussion not so much imo - slow, chaotic modulation - triple sloth for example - or random modulation - wobblebug - although both benefit from a lot of attenuation/attenuversion/(matrix) mixing etc - so as always - utiltiies!

generative - in a box it's difficult to ignre marbles (clones), turing machines etc - although there's a lot to be said for running multiple gates through a (vc) mixer and into a quantizer for generating random melodies

this seems at least respectful
-- pointandclicksystems

it's always wise to remember that respect is something to be earned and not just expected... what you're really saying is that that post was not critical!!

just like it's a good thing to be able to tell the difference between flippant and/or witty banter, opinion, criticism and insult...

especially when you are promoting a product... you can either 'show good grace' or behave like Uli...

NB where I come from, to a large extent, we reserve insults for our friends - it's how we express our love for them!!

for the record - I use a computer a lot of the time & for a myriad of purposes... including, but not limited to: multitrack recording, video synth front end and back end, programming etc

my use of the terms 'modular synthesis' and 'synthesis with modules' is both descriptive and philosophical...

by 'modular synthesis' I mean the use of fundamentally basic building block modules - such as vcos, vcas, vcfs, simple utilities etc that are patched together using patch cables to achieve synthesis - ie "traditional" modular synthesis

by 'synthesis with modules' I mean the use of extremely complex modules that do a lot of these things for you and maybe similar to fixed architecture or semi-modular synthesizers within a module... or in the extreme 'computer as module' ie your modules, ZOIA and Hector

often I describe racks as "less 'modular synthesis' and more 'synthesis with modules'" - in that they comprise of mainly voice and effect modules with modulation and utilities (often the most important/interesting components of a modular synthesizer) as at best afterthoughts...

neither of these are particularly good or bad, just different, nor are they to be taken as binary - there is a wide spectrum between them and to a large extent from what I can see, most modular "users" also fall somewhere between the 2 - I certainly do...

a lot of people get into modular as a way of avoiding computer screens (I didm't) and I don't think these extreme 'computer in a module' modules really appeal to them, and in terms of interface design... well let's just say I think vcv rack is 1000 times better, despite the drawback of the interface - mouse = single parameter at a time change - midi controller = better, but still llimited...

they seem to me to be for people who want a modular synthesizer, but don't really like modular synthesizers... or at least the usage paradigm - at it's best - knob per function/function per knob, patch programmability (with actual physical patch cables etc

your module is in lots of ways (or at least in my impressions) much better, although, at least in my opinion, it's a bit redundant...

as a module with a screen:
in a studio: not only does it take up valuable rack space (& power i suspect), but it's doing something that's often already there - the "studio" computer - which only needs an interface (I use an es8/es6 combo to connect to my MacBook Pro), which (given the pre-existing MBP) takes up less rack space and costs less... and is just as, if not more, useful - I can carry my MBP to somewhere else and use it for other prurposes...

as a portable: it takes up valuable rack space (& power) and probably adds more weight - my MBP is about 1.2kg... but and this is the only downside - I'd have to take my MBP and some cables etc with me

as a module without a screen:
in practice I suspect (& it's only a suspicion, I might be wrong) your module is near unusable without a screen... so:
in a studio: the user needs to add a screen, taking up effectively the same space as an external computer, in a lot of cases...

as a portable: the user would have to transport an external screen in able to see what's going on... and a screen is far more cumbersome and awkward to transport than a laptop...

as such whilst I truely think that your module (and ZOIA & Hector) are all really clever devices (& much kudos for you and their creators for coming up with them), I also think they are 'awful' modules and I wouldn't want them in my rack... in exactly the same way I appreciate that there are some clever theists and neo-liberals, but I think they have awful, misguided opinions and wouldn't want them in my house...

I'm sure there are many, many people who think differently... and that's great - as always posts express my opinions and are not intended to cause offence (remember in English: offence can only be taken and not given!)

I really hope you sell loads (same goes for ZOIA and Hector) - I wish you the greatest of successes in your endeavours...

a friendly bit of advice: try to stop taking yourself so seriously & learn to take other people's opinions and criticism for what they are... opinions and criticisms.. NOT insults... it's not binary LOVE/HATE (& I know social media and hyperbole are often to blame for this binary type of thinking) but there are almost always places in between - LOVE/LIKE/COULDN'T GIVE A DAMN/DISLIKE/HATE - and all places in between all of those...

I'm all for continuing this as a friendly, thoughtful and intelligent debate about the philosophy of 'modular synthesis' v ' synthesis with modules' and the usefulness/UI etc but maybe it should be somewhere else???

EDITED Sep 7th 2023, 15:36

pay for a unicorn account and it's there...

the only thing that's missing is that it doesn't reflect duplicates... for example if you have 3 xpo, or whatever module, it only shows 1

@pointandclicksystems - it's an opinion... not an insult...

they're just not in the spirit of 'modular synthesis'... they're 'synthesis with modules' to the extreme...

I actually think they're very clever, same as your module, well done for putting a full blown computer behind a panel!

but good luck to you... I hope you (and they) sell loads... just not to me...

Lots of interesting thoughts and good suggestions from @HGsynth.

But be careful, you should not ideally exceed 640mA on +12V and on -12V (per each row) in a RackBrute 6U, that is to say 80% of the 800mA available (for +12V and the same for -12V, there are four separate circuits of 800mA in two rows): and this in order to leave enough headroom for voltage peaks!
However the data sheet of the rack proposed here (in MG) indicates 743mA on the row2 (for +12V), which would be very risky...

Also, you only have 12 slots in the row2, and I see here 13 modules.
-- Sweelinck

physical location does not necessarilly need to reflect where power is plugged in... longer power cables are available (& easily made)

well it's kind of the same as those awful - ZOIA and Hector 'modules', isn't it...

I don't understand anyone wanting one of those either...

hmm - I have a couple of the smaller 10hp matrix mixers... tbh I'd rather have bigger ones... or at least a bigger one - completely due to ergonomics...

so maybe the problem is not that the matrix mixers are too big, it' s that the case is too small ... maybe it's time for another case!

The power thing is something you have to be aware of even with Mantis cases. The +12v power supply provides 3A, but split into three zones of 1A each. It's small enough space-wise, though, that it would take some really beefy modules to hit the max on any one zone.
-- PragmaticusMax

my big problem with the mantis is the -12v... but I am using it for video...

this happens a lot on all sizes of cases... a lot of small cases are underpowered...

the doepfer 9u cases are often underpwered... they have the same psu as the 6u (which the psu is fine for).. & the 9u are fine if you are using predominantly doepfer (or similar) analog modules, but start putting in small digital ones and...

Third, just a quick observation: you have a lot of oscillators and filters and not too much else, so it's not really a surprise that your patching is feeling repetative. You have many impressive sound sources (more than you may realize, with self-patching), but not much to play with them and manipulate them. I suppose you have the computer at your disposal (VCV rack has some great free modules), but I'm not seeing the midi 0r other interfaces to connect? In any case, you should consider a few additions (everyone likes buying more gear, right?). Your patching options open up exponentially as you get more modules and patchpoints.

this!!!

Consider for example, VCAs. You have the Quad VCA, which is a great module, but doesn't even give you enough channels for the voices you already have, and it certainly doesn't give you enough channels to play around with, such as modulating an LFO with another LFO to come up with more interesting cv. A Veils clone or Doepfer's quad mixer vca might be of more value than you realize.

get the veils clone... a much more versatile vca than the doepfer - not that the doepfer is not good, just less versatile...

I also always advocate for more modulation options, like Ochd or Batumi, so you can have motion. Finally, you're missing the essential architecture, utilities. There's been a few good analogies floating around the comments about utilities, but in the end, the unsung utilities are what enable you to actually use the big-ticket modules like VCOs.

an extra modulation source would be good - depending on how you are using Pams... if you are using that a lot for modulatiojn at the moment I'd prioritise a matrix mixer... probably less. expensive than a worthwhile an inexpensive modulation source

You might want to consider a mutli-utility module, such as a Disting EX or uOrnament and Crime, which gives you a taste of a lot of types of utility modules so you can figure out what's useful (again, VCV rack gives you plenty for free if you're already using a computer, but you need to be able to interact with it). For example, until you play with a clock divider, how would you know you can use it as a sub-osc? Or a that comparator can be amazing for taking LFOs and making rhythms, or just how fun switches can be?

I'd be more towards getting some basic utility modules - you can research more interestin things later... although something to interface with vcv rack is a great idea - es9 is probably best of breed - unless you already have a decent audio interface with ADAT I/O

In my mind, it's the ability to access these architectural circuits that makes modular unique. Plenty of standalone synths give you deep rawring sounds and luscious pads, but how many of them can create modulation and movement over time that can be controlled by other parameters? I'd say watch some videos about the modules you already have (look up that MATHS manual!) and about different utilities, and you'll get a good sense of where to go next with your patching.

architectural circuits ? more like the plumbing - no point in building a house (or any building) without the making sure the plumbing is properly there...

Edited: Just saw the link has already been posted. Ignore point 1.
-- HGsynth

classic cross posting!

actual link - cos jpgs are crap!!!

well I'd want more utilities - a matrix mixer would be a good start - and probably some attenuators....

seems far too sound source heavy... see my signature for hints...

patch ideas - work your way through the 'maths illustrated supplement', use the fx directly after the sound source and before filtering...

write a python script on that MBP - to generate random patches - if you search there's an example one floating about online... if you can read and do basic maths it'll be easy to adapt for your rack...

write some selection tables on a pad and use dice to generate patches...

mix outputs of sound sources, before doing anything else...

tune your sound sources to different intervals...

mix & modulate your modulation!

hope this helps!

EDITED Sep 4th 2023, 15:23

My theory is some modules (probably digital) have a spike in power usage when first booting up. During an initial "cold boot", not every digital module gets the surge of power it needs and it crashes during boot-up. The module is unresponsive and does not work at all in this case.
-- adamj

this is a 'known' feature of some electrical items... including modules... it's called 'inrush'

if it's only when plugged into certain places, I'd move it - possibly some busboards have limits...

I can see that its nice to have some portable gear, I don't consider my main case Portable cos its Blooming heavy but I'm working towards having a my Top Case and Percussion Case as being portable and easy to combine with a Beatstep Pro. This leaves my Main Case to be more Generative and experimental.

the original 6u case looks really portable to me...

I've had my mantis on planes, trains and buses many, many times with ease in the past...

eowave have a contact form on their website... strange that this module is not listed though!

don't do this & don't recommend anyone else do this..

you are likely to damage the uZeus...

Thanks JimHowell1970, I can understand better about TurinG Machine
Nice to hear about Pamela, it was another option in my mind...

good

But I'm learning all by myself and it's also hard to understand what I need o want because I still trying to route VCO and LFO ....

I have a sort of control of my system but it's sure that if it will be in your hand I will be surprised !

what exactly are you having problems with??? feel free to ask...

I started being more cognizant of function overlap. No need to get a module, no matter how pretty it is, if all it does is perform the same function as a module I already own.

to a large extent this is true, especially of big shiny expensive modules... but functional overlap in utilities is handy... multiple vcas, mults, mixers, logic, clock dividers etc are extremely useful! especially once you've grown beyond a few voices... and are starting to look at multiple layers of control... not just controlling the shape, panning and sound of notes, but also controlling sections of 'songs' - bring in this voice for this section, add this effect for a bar every 4 bars...

In the beginning we're understandably a bit voracious, but the more we add on the table, the more discriminating gourmet we become.

-- Sweelinck

Never more true words, I am definitley becoming a discriminating gourmet, I even feel like my module-buying is slowly coming to an end.... Shocking I know

-- wishbonebrewery

this is very true for most people - almost all new modules are combinations or extrapolations of existing modules, that to a large extent can be patched up from what you have (if you have the basic building blocks of synthesis in your rack and not just shiny expensive do it all modules) - there's the odd one that innovates massively, but they are very uncommon amd not necessarily that useful...

I'm definitely in a similar position regarding audio modules - there are a few things I would like to add in the future, but no real urgency... an extra oscillator (a duplicate of one I already have - to use as a 2 oscillator voice), a control surface (possibly a tnsm or a tetrapad/tete or similar) and then it's just a few relatively simple utilities... another matrix mixer, a vc polarizer, maybe a couple of submixers

the same can almost be said for video too... I know almost exactly what I want to be able to do, that I can't already do... but again no real rush... some/most/all of it is doable with modules that are either currently available, or (hopefully) will be soon... it's just having the spare cash (if you thought audio modular was expensive... take a look at analog video modular)... and I have no real need for HD - I kind of like the retro SD vibe...

I do like a bit of DIY though - so this may continue - unless/until my eye sight gets too bad... I do want to finish my backlog though... but all of that is smd (that I don't really like) and have been putting off for a long time...

Basically it's 10 3u frames in 5 rows. (2x 84hp wide and 15u height)

this way i can also fit 19"outboard or a 500 rack inside.
-- ak47exe

that's a decent size and layout!

What did change for you when you switched to a bigger setup?

longer cables & layout - see above... you may find that you want to use your current 6u 104hp case as a control skiff in front if the 15u is vertical - I find that I prefer sequencers, controllers, end of chain mixer etc are best horizontal and at the front

Do you work differently?

not really, more an extrapolation of what I was doing with a smaller case... more voices to patch (potentially) - use more utilities to make the most of modulation (multing, combining, inverting, attenuating etc) so less modulation sources can be used to modulate more modules... with related modulation... so things fit together better...

a bigger case also opens up different lavels of control... for example vcas are no longer just for modulation and note shaping... they are now also for gain control over time (ie autonated mixing) - which is i suppose a different way of working - still working on this

one thing I do have that's really useful in this size & bigger cases & with larger numbers of voices is a sinfonion... really handy for keeping things in key and supplying chordal notes on top of 3-4 'melodic/bass' voices - also really helps in terms of arrangement - as you can alter the octave ramge of voices...

also a bigger mixer is useful - I'm using a tesseract tex-mix - currently with 12 mono channels and 4 stereo channels

Do you work on patches for a longer time than in a small case?

probably - they take longer to patch - and take longer to finesse

Is it somehow harder or more easy to build a sound?

the same... there are just more modules to choose from...

Was it a good step or do you regret it it any way?

more choice is good... more voices are good... so a good step...

2 possibilities from what I can see

1 the output level of the gate is not enough to open the envelope

2 the length of the gate is too short to open the envelope

you'll need to check the output level of the gate in the manual... and cross reference it with the doepfer module

adjusting the length of the gate on the west pest is addressed on page 16 of the pdf manual

by 10 x 84hp do you mean 10u or 30u?

if 10u:

it's not really a much bigger case than the one you already have... only 60hp more for 3u modules + a 1u row

is this in addition to the 6u 104hp case you already have or a replacement? as an addition it's fine - although I'd probably go for a 104hp case so they can be arranged better and not be ciffering widths, if it's a replacement, then there's not a lot of extra space to grow into - so the next case will be wanted/needed sooner rather than later

if 30u:

I really wouldn't want a monolithic 30u x 84hp rack...

I'd go wider and lower - I have, effectively, 18u * 188hp - made up of 4 cases (2 * 9u 104hp, 2 * 9u 84hp) so that the lower 2 are near horizontal and the upper 2 are near vertical... this is much easier to deal with than 30u straight up imo - so I'd halve it vertically and double the width to give 15u 168hp - it's also better for module arrangement - I kind of follow the arp 2600 layout & that works quite well

There is something wrong with the Screenshot thing!

-- Hikove

maybe, but what??

it'll really help if you describe what's going wrong - not just "Houston, we have a problem!"

thanks! really clear!
just because I'm thinking to find another module....
what can be interesting to add to my setup?

I was thinking about the Turing machine module....

I like drones, I have Microcosm pedal connected and a delay

-- centecente

turing machines are great - but they need to be clocked and they need to be quantized, if you want to use them for pitch with other sequencers that are quantized... so it might mean that you need more than just one module - ie the module you want and the modules that are needed to support it...

if what you want is 'looped quantized stepped random voltages' for generating 'pseudo-random' melodies - then it might be worth looking at a Pams New (or Pro) Workout - they can both do that - amongst a lot of other things including clock functions (master, division, multiplication, euclidean), logic, gates, envelopes etc - the screen on the Pro is better from all accounts and it has a lot more functionality - it's a module you'll grow into, if you don't mind the menu diving (which isn't that bad really, quite shallow, but a bit tedious - iirc you can save and recall presets - so that may help)

I'd think carefully about what you are missing in your patches - ie I want to do this, but I can't because I don't have that functionality in my case... note these omissions down - and then prioritise them before searching for and ultimately buying new modules

should work fine... as long as the voltage is high enough and the signal is as long as you want it to be...

if the module's expecting a trigger/gate it's probably expecting a threshold to be reached to apply the accent and a drop below that threshold to stop applying the accent...

not sure how the velocity is done in the beatstep pro - I've never used it on mine - but I suspect that it just outputs a voltage based on the max output / the value of the velocity... and then turn off once the step is over... so effectively a gate at the level specified by the velocity value

shouldn't hurt anyway - give it a try!! - it's all just control voltage

google translate:

"Hello everyone, in my Doepfer chain I have inserted the Delay 2hp module...but the Delay response I got didn't satisfy me, I struggle to obtain repeat effects...has this happened to you too? I think to replace with 2hp Verb"

delays usually require feedback to produce more than 1 repeat - try turning the feedback up or addressing it with CV...

For an external sequencer, regardless of the size of your setup, BeatStep Pro is a great solution.

indeed it is! and it's a keeper - ie it's always useful no matter how big your rack gets to... currently I predominantly use mine for sequencing song part/chord progression changes on my sinfonion - clocked from the sinfonion...

get a mantis - easily portable - I've travelled a lot with mine on planes (perfectly sized for hand lugggage), trains and buses and used to live on the 2nd floor (or 3rd if you're american) with no lift... and that's with just the standard tiptop case - there's a 3rd party briefcase that's more rugged if you're worried about it!

then you'll have plenty of space to add modules without sacrificing others - at least until the mantis is full!

OK...

1 get a bigger case - small cases are very often a false economy... as you will end up buying another case within a few weeks or months... better to start off with that slightly bigger case - a tip top mantis is an excellend starter case and one of the best bangs for money in eurorack (hp/cost/manufacturer reputation/decent power)

these tiny cases are great for mission specific roles when you know what you are doing, but at the moment neither of these appply to you

2. how are you going to plqy this? are you expecting to play it via a keyboard or from a DAW? then you are missing the midi to cv module you need... only 1/2 the module is included in the case - you still need the cv output part... Pams includes some random sequence generation, amongst other things (rtfm), but it's likely that sooner or later and probably sooner you'll want to be able to create a sequence - and there's no space left in the case for that... NB there are external sequencers - maybe one of these would be a good idea...

3. in a case this small there's not really enough space for multiple voices - something will be missing... a filter for the dixie for example... stick to one voice and what's needed to support it rather than trying to do too much in too small a case...

4. again in a small case there is no space for overlap when not needed - the functionality of the EG can be covered by pams (again rtfm)

I would either just get a bigger case and start with a few modules - a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen - which in this case may just be Pams, plaits (you'll likely only get a clone - ALA for example), an effect mdoule and a headphone output: Pams covers (to some extent) the way to play and the modulation source, plaits is the sound source (including vca, filter and has some internal modulation based on the envelope sent into the level) etc

OR

ignore the size of the case for now - start with a 9u (or 10u, if you must have 1u) 104hp or bigger case in modulargrid and put the modules you really want in it (taking into account the functionality that you want - ie 2 voices) and try to work out the modules that you need to support those and then show us the result for critique - then buy a case that is appropriate for the modules and leaves 20%+ free for expansion so that you are not going to need to buy another case almost immediately when you see that module that you need a week after you've finished buying all the modules that you think you want and the modules that we've pointed out that you need in order to support them properly

and take a look at my signature... spend a decent amount of time thinking about it and how it applies to you and the modules you think you want...

EDITED Aug 26th 2023, 07:43