So this would be my first eurorack setup.

I'm trying to do noise, breakbeat, DnB and jungle stuff.

This is a pretty common setup from what I've seen, but it seems very powerful

ModularGrid Rack

Any opinions on this, it's use, or what people people think of these modules in tandem would be great. I also need to get them in person and even get used to using them, obviously. So any help would be appreciated.


There are lots of Mutable Instrument clones out there that are a lot smaller in size. Some Mutable Instruments modules are also out of production, so a clone might might be your only option.

What are you doing for a sequencer or even a quantizer? I'm not familiar with Instruo's line so is there one in there? There's a lot of fun to be had by having an onboard sequencer or quantizer around. A micro version of Ornaments & Crime is a great place to start for simple sequences and quantizing. It's 10HP or you can go to Plum Audio and get a 1U version that fits in Intellijel's 1U row.

An output module might be a nice touch as well as a MIDI to CV converter if you plan on playing in sync with a DAW and recording.

I would ditch the Plasma Drive. Not because it's a bad module... it's a great module. But it's really expensive and quite an HP hog for a small case. Leave that space open so you at least have some wiggle room for additional, smaller modules.

Don't be in too big of a hurry to fill your case immediately.

I would replace nothing at the moment. I would make sure that I had plenty of patch cables, including splitters.

I would then spend a lot of time on Youtube learning the basics of modular synthesis as well as any tutorials or reviews of each individual module.

As far as I can tell, there isn't an internal sequencer that offers any pitch information. So you may be a bit limited. I would (I mean me) would buy something like the new Arturia Keystep Pro or equivalent with its own patchable sequencer. There is a MIDI to CV converter if you'd like to use your computer or MIDI sequencer... but I'm talking about the pure patch cable experience.

That would be my take on it.

I came into this rack through a friend and have very basic knowledge of the modular world but want to know more. Here is the rack I have exactly:

ModularGrid Rack

What would you add, remove or replace and why?

My use for this rack is really unknown, I would like to know WHAT I can do with it as well.

Any insight would be great.

Hi Exposure,

If you don't mind menu driven modules, Varigate 4+ (or 8+) might be your module. If possible, I strongly recommend you to have this module tested at your local dealer before buying it.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield.

Sorry for the response "delay" but it took me time to look into all these suggestions.
To sum up, i'm now considering a 6U 104HP case that I will fill slowly depending on my needs and starting small.

- I haven't played yet with AM synthesis, that's clearly something i'll try! I'm watching a few videos on the Veils and it looks amazing
- This "subharmonicon" concept is definitely something I'm going to look into aswell. getting a Maths was somehow a plan for the future but i'm not yet sure how to use it. thanks for mentioning it and making clearer the lesser need of the A-171-2 if I was switching to a Maths.
- Probably going to start with one voice playing around with tiny patches between 3/4 modules.
- Concerning the DT, I'm not a big fan of live sampling for many reasons (quality, portability..) but thanks for reminding that to me

Oh by the way, what is the A-183-3 for ?
-- toodee
Well, I naively though i could use it to mix multiple voices into one and send it to the output, I now start to think that might be wrong. Is it?


The Disting will give you a lot of different features to play with. You can then figure out if you'd like dedicated versions of those programs.
-- Ronin1973
Thank you for your feedback about the Disting, that is precisely what I was expecting from it

To be honest, I wasn't expecting so much warmth and detailed answers, I feel like i'm going to spend a few hours in this forum during the next months. I'm not going to use more of your time but will for sure keep you updated of the updates of this case through next posts.

Again, thank you very much to all of you for your help

Works fine!
Many thanks!

Hi everyone,

After years of guilt-tripping myself, I've finally started building my first modular and I could not be more excited. I purchased the NiftyCASE with the two included modules (I know it's tiny but it will work for awhile until I eventually upgrade to either the Pittsburgh EP-270 or maybe even the EP-420).

I would love any feedback on what people think of this:

ModularGrid Rack

My main plan at the moment is to just have a fun little jamming box for whipping up beats and synth lines on recordings (and coming up with song ideas, and just having fun with it). The long-term plan is to have a self-sufficient song creation machine at my fingertips. So if I'm being honest, I'm more into having something I have a lot of control over than a machine that does a lot of generative or experimental stuff.

My two main concerns with this prototype are the following:

1) I like the design of the Dreadbox Hysteria. 10hp is great for such a tiny case and it's hard to beat that price, but VCO's are important to me (obviously) and I'm wondering if this is the best choice to start with. I'm considering a clone of Plaits instead, and I'm really into the Soundforce DCO, but I already own a Juno 106. Is the Soundforce a redundant choice..? I can't decide! Help!!

2) I'm not entirely sold on the Disting. It seems like a wise choice since it will fill a lot of gaps I'll have in my system at first and help me experiment with a lot of stuff instead of buying 50 different utility modules...but one of my rules going into this was I didn't want to do any menu diving. Like, at all. My goal is to one day be able to basically play this thing blindfolded. I know I can sell it down the road, but I'm just looking for feedback. Maybe there's a more basic and fundamental module I should get instead?

Any comments, suggestions or criticisms would be hugely appreciated. This is a huge world I'm stepping into as I'm sure you all know. I have no idea if there's anything I've overlooked or if there are any better options to consider for my limited real estate. I guess I should mention that I'm sequencing it with my Beatstep Pro and Ableton Live before anyone points out the missing sequencing options, haha. Thank you all, I'm really excited to finally be part of the community!

-Z Wolf

Disting MK4 again... :-)

Quantizer A-6
Send your CV to X
Choose the chromatic scale with Z knob (near the middle)
Output B will send a trigger for each CV change >= one semitone

I discovered Math shortly after I started planning and building my first rack. It was the 3rd module I bought and it's by far the most powerful and unique module I have. I can't imagine not having one in my rack.

If you're short on space, I can recommend the Happy Nerding 3x VCA as a great mixer/VCA combo. Also take a look at the Make Noise modules like Optomix, Dynamix or ModDemix.

Looks good. To follow up with some of the other comments:

Two ADSRs would be nice.
You might also want to squeeze in a dedicated LFO module that can be restarted/synced.

I'm not familiar with your ADSR/VCA combo. As long as the two circuits can be used independently, that's fine. Else I'd want them separated, even though plugging an ADSR into a VCA is pretty usual.

The Disting will give you a lot of different features to play with. You can then figure out if you'd like dedicated versions of those programs.

With all of the inexpensive case options that are about to hit the market, I'd definitely go bigger unless you really will not expand the system in future.

I'm now investigating into some VCA/enveloppe and/or LFO/enveloppe (any input appreciated).

For VCA's, my first one was a quad VCA from Intellijel, I still like being able to adjust the response between linear and exponential as well as the mixing possibilities. 4 VCA's was more than enough to start messing around in my first rack, I could have done with even less at the start. That being said, consider that a VCA is not only for audio but can also be used to control modulation (=cv) amplitude, so it's not necessarily 1 voice = 1 VCA. And on the other hand, some modules like Plaits, Plonk or Basimilus Iteritas Alter have integrated VCA's which are amazing space savers. Mutable Instruments Veils is another option similar to the Intellijel one, there are also many others so take your time to pick a module. Since you played with VCV, did you try experimenting with using VCAs to control CV modulation or even AM synthesis (amplitude modulation) ? Some practice using VCA's in your VCV patches should give you an idea of how many you like to use. If you really can't decide, start small, I suppose.

For LFO's, Garfield convinced me to get the Erica Synths Octasource and I'm grateful he did, it's loads of fun. The only "drawback" is that it looks like a simple module but it actually took me time to learn how to best use its particularities, clever patching is everything here and that's not easy when you're starting out (wasn't a problem for long though). Oh yeah, it's also not on the cheap side, albeit worth the asking price IMO. Another option I see recommended a lot is the Batumi, looks like a good module to me, less on the crazy side I think. In my rack, I also have a Mutable Instruments Stages which can be configured to offer up to 6 LFO's. The amount of options here is simply overwhelming, the best advice I think I can offer is again, take your time to select what suits you best. That being said, I don't think one could go wrong with any of the options mentioned.

For envelopes, I haven't tried enough options to really recommend anything, but I'd say decide first what sort of envelope you need. For example, I quickly realized, before I got into modular, that I'm generally fine with AD envelopes and rarely need a Hold stage (which stays open while the gate is held) or a full ADSR. I picked the Stages to be able to select the envelope type per patch, that kind of flexibility is really nice.
I feel like at this point I should mention Maths since you are considering a rack with more space. Maths is a large module but it's definitely worth it if you can afford spending some cash and 20HP on it. It's an amazing tool to teach newcomers about what I call "clever patching techniques": amongst its many uses are being an LFO or being an EG but there's a video out there (I think by Loopop) of it being used as sort of a Subharmonicon so really, sky is the limit. Also, you might not need that A-171-2 if you end up getting a Maths.

As this rack also serves an educational purpose I still hope I could get started doing 'something' with these few modules modules and get a taste of what's missing from this point.

Do you think I still can enjoy the basic concepts with this setup before going further?

Sure, if I were you I would even start with only one voice to begin getting a feel for it, you can always buy more later. Full disclosure, I didn't, but I'm definitely greedy :) You have the option to sample the voice into the DT and make another patch if you can live with sacrificing a DT voice for a while. I think that for the learning part of the experience, getting a Disting is a great idea, you can try many types of modular functionalities with it and discover which ones are worth getting their own module.

Oh by the way, what is the A-183-3 for ?

I bought a Make Noise Moddemix from @yari. Good buyer, very good packing, and very reactive! Module in mint condition
I also bought a Make Noise DPO from @aoxomoxoa again very good buyer, quick send and he even send me back some money as he over-estimated the shipping cost!!
2 very good experiences, I recommend both of sellers


Thank you infinitely for your detailed answer and the time you took to look at my current project and share your experience.

I'm starting to understand the reason why people tend to tell me to use a larger rack. I'm going to consider getting a larger (104) 6U case based on these advices to start the project. Also, thank you for the advice concerning modules, i'm now investigating into some VCA/enveloppe and/or LFO/enveloppe (any input appreciated).

As this rack also serves an educational purpose I still hope I could get started doing 'something' with these few modules modules and get a taste of what's missing from this point.

Do you think I still can enjoy the basic concepts with this setup before going further?

Hi Gastonn,

Excellent advice by Garfield as usual, I would like to add my voice (no pun intended) to the "you probably will need a bigger rack" team. Let's see if I can explain why.

If you want to create a multi-voice modular system (so at least 2 voices), you will already need at least 2 sound sources, here I can only see the Dixie and the STO, excellent in their own right but using the Dixie as a VCO prevents you from comfortably using it as an LFO. How many LFO's you need is a question of taste but just Disting (+ maybe Dixie) on LFO duties is not nearly enough for me.
Sound source is not the only thing you would need more of, in my opinion:
- I would definitely need more envelopes, at least one for the filter. One could do without it, of course, but it would make me sad.
- I would also need another filter for the 2nd voice. Another module that could use modulation like LFO's and envelopes, most likely.
- Ideally, I would like a (cv controllable, if possible) mixer/vca to mix waveforms from the VCO's and get some timbre variation

Let's look at the whole project as well, how much of it could not be achieved with a more "traditional" synth like the Elektron Analog Four ? For now with this setup, I'm thinking "not much, actually", which would prompt me to suggest getting that synth instead if your only goal is having a few mono synth voices with "limited" modulation. You'd get an interesting sequencer, effects, a few more voices, audio via USB etc. Should you get the A4 instead of a modular system ? Maybe, perhaps not. My point is that in my opinion, for one to get into Eurorack, one should probably have (or plan to have) needs that could only be answered in modular. Or simply have a lot of money to spend I guess hehe :) In other words, for your setup to offer more than what can be achieved with a "traditional" synth like the Elektron Analog Four (which BTW is not necessarily a goal that needs to be achieved on the first iteration, but it's good to look at the foreseeable future too), you would most likely need more modules, hence more space.

You have some space left in the rack right now but not much and you said it yourself, the size "can be ok for now", so there is a risk that you outgrow this. It is my personal opinion that it would happen much faster than you anticipate, as it seems to be a common experience for most of us. Hell, I was a modulation freak before but not nearly as much as now that I got into Eurorack, I could have never anticipated that the format would challenge my synthesis and production techniques so much, but I guess that's what great about it. As a result, the rack I have now is very, very different from the first plan I made. More importantly, it's much bigger now that I learned to use my rack and realized I wanted more out of it. I had to buy a bigger case after buying a small one, which is définitely more expensive than just buying the big one straight away.

The risk of outgrowing your current space is enough that I feel I should encourage you to consider a bigger case like TipTop Mantis or Intellijel's popular 7U cases. At first, it will look huge and empty but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets filled eventually. The final decision is always yours, but I hope my comment will help you make the best decision for what you envision.

Have fun and make music !

Sorry, I didn't intend for this to be public. I'm planning my first modular system and my comments are notes to myself for the various options.

This plan is to expand a Moog Grandmother. I'm just building this for fun as a new hobby; I've always wanted to learn to play an instrument and the idea of "building" my own is compelling. I need to set an upper size/price limit so I don't get carried away. I chose a 104 HP Powered Make Noise Skiff because it can sit behind the Grandmother. All I really wanted to add to the Grandmother is granular synthesis, but of course I have found other modules that interest me along the way. Now I just need to determine the best balance between the modules I would like to have and utilities. I'm OK with the 104 HP limit, I may just have to scale back the number of voices/effects. Limits are good for creativity.

I have read some comparator manuals and I do not think that the output from my sequencer can be used for creating trigger pulses, but I can be wrong.
With the linked picture I try to explain.
Fig. 1 shows the output from my sequencer and fig.2 shows how I think the output must look like for creating comparator triggers.

Hi Winterlight !

Hard to say, depends on your build I guess. VCA's and mixers are not exactly the same thing, although I have used my quad VCA module as a mixer more than once. Rather than reiterating, I'm linking here to a couple of threads seen elsewhere on the subject:

Hope this helps,

Thanks for your time and reply Garfield, I truly appreciate your feedback.

This rack purpose is just getting 2 voices so I think the size can be ok for now (?)
Concerning the LFO, I was wondering if I can use the DixieII one (which is described as VCO/LFO).
In addition I was also planning to use a Disting mk4 (space left blank on the left).
Do you think Dixie + Disting should be enough LFOs for 2 voices?

Kind regards

10mins!!! I never thought i typed quite that slow!
It will be all the edits when i attempt to not sound rude! ;-)

I'd like to second the Plonk, Planar 2, Rainmaker and ZDSP2. I'd like to add IME Hertz Donut Mk3 and Double Andore Mk2.

I know, "you can never have to many vcas" but if I incorporate a mixer into my build, do I /also/ need a separate VCA?
Doesn't the mixer act /as/ a VCA?

Just trying to shave down the cost here.

Frankly, I don't see why...other than monetary reasons...people want to use these little skiffs. Sure, they're portable and toteable and all that...but without the ability to sprawl out some and have lots of surprising potentials and opportunities built into your system, you're shortchanging yourself as to what modular can be.

You can still carry around a 3 x 84 or 2 x 104 easily enough. So it doesn't fit into a backpack Frankly, if people want "convenient" instruments, maybe they should look at anything BUT modular synthesizers!

You actually get quite a bit of time, but if you're typing for 10 minutes or more on the forum, it's a good rule of thumb to do a quick CTRL-C of the post in the delay window before pushing it on out to the forum proper. Not the reCAPTCHA doing it, either...MG's forum has had that timeout feature for quite some time.

This looks way cool. Wish I had it.

Hello Gastonn,

Welcome to modular :-)

It depends a bit what you want to do with this upcoming rack? Just getting a few tones out of it should be possible ;-) If you want to get a bit more out of it, it's in my opinion far too small. Consider either a 9U 84 HP rack or a 6U (or 7U) 104 HP rack. Sooner or later you get used to the modules you have and start to realise that you could need another filter or VCA or perhaps even a third oscillator, i.e. you need reserved space for future extension. That might sound over the top for you perhaps but you will see, once hooked up in modular, nothing is big enough, neither your wallet nor your rack space ;-)

Another envelope (beside another filter and VCA) might be another idea to consider too.

I didn't mention anything about logic modules, sequencers and other "nice stuff" yet because there is just no space in your rack for that.

Oh yes, a very important component (or did I overlooked it?) I miss is the LFO, consider at least one or two LFOs, can't find them in your rack...

Good luck with the planning and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Xxeyes,

How about a rack that's bigger, 3 x 84 HP for example? :-) Then additional mixer module(s) wouldn't be a problem.

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hello everybody and thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post (which is my first one, just like the 84hp modular case I'm planning to build)!

ModularGrid Rack

I’ve very recently started diving into modular systems. After a few months of research to get a grasp on the various concepts going on here, I finally decided to roll my own. To give some context, my experience with producing music so far was simply using a digitakt + moog bass synth (the minitaur) plugged to a reverb pedal. My whole understanding of what a mono voice synth actually does hence comes from this moog minitaur which is my only actual analog instrument...

My plans consists in replacing the minitaur of my current setup (designed to do minimal/progressive techno) for something that does more: a bass and a melody. I think it would be a multi-voice modular capable of sending 2 (maybe it could be more?) midi signals from the midi channels of the digitakt through the shuttle control module, convert them to cv, and play around with these two before mixing them into one output (sent to a big sky reverb pedal).

So here I am, looking for guidance as an ultimate check before buying the modules and the 3U 84HP case.
1. Is my understanding correct and that the following rack can fulfil the previously detailed needs?
2. As a first rack, is it a good setup to play around with while learning how to patch? (I just have used VCV so far)

I assumed some elemental things should be missing so I left some space left :)
Any input/advices/feedback is appreciated (please feel free to tell me if I got it wrong)

Thanks for your time

Have a beautiful day


Hey Rookie,

I'm using the 2S sequencer too, so far I've been using the LFOs as a kind of triggers, it works for simple things. Otherwise I've been considering adding a Steppy ( to my system, it's a bit more expensive than the comparators but it has four independent gate tracks, so you may want to check it out too.

Thanks for the replies!

I think the varigate 4+ might be a better choice for my needs, the Qu-Bit Octone looks great too and I'll check it out, thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks for the replies!
I will check if I can use Distings Comparator A-7.
Otherwise there seems to be some cheap comparators out there.

When posting or responding to a forum thread the reCAPTCHA thing times out just about ever time I respond to or write a post.
How many seconds does it give you to type?

It may or may not be relevant to you but I can use my Pittsburgh MicroSequence to Trigger (when it hits a high note) and also control Pitch from the same CV Pitch output. With modules like the 2hp Pluck & Bell they have Polyphony in their release time so it can create some nice effects.

This option lacks the Disting MK4, but maybe I don't need it, especially if I can't get the record function to work. The biggest problem is there is no mixing module. I would have to give up on three simultaneous channels - only two would be available. For that reason, this probably isn't the best option.

Right...they're called comparators, and there's several types...

The simplest comparators look for incoming CV levels which cross a reference voltage level, and when the incoming voltage is either over or under the reference (depending on how you have it programmed), it can send either a gate or trigger. The trigger types tend to fire when the reference is crossed (and this can be upward or downward...but this sort of comparator is also known as a discriminator, as it can also tell whether an incoming voltage is moving upward, downward, or sometimes steady when the reference gets crossed), and gates tend to hold as long as the incoming CV is in the voltage range the comparator was programmed to look for.

But then...there are WINDOW comparators. Now, these are whole 'nother level of fun. What these do is to have (at least) TWO reference levels, so that you can fire a gate in ALL voltage ranges...above the top, between the two (or more) references, or below the bottom. You can also tandem these with triggering-type comparators that also send a trigger on reference crossings, too. For things such as generative music, these are super-useful for reading long voltage curves to change the "state" of the piece with the differing trigger/gate outputs.

But those are a little much for this sort of application. Let's see if I can insert a pic here...
Did it work? If not, just go there. Anyway, this is a bank of four ultra-simple comparators...input, reference level set by a knob, and gate output. You'd then just patch channel 3 out of the 2s to this via a mult, then have it read for anything above X voltage, so that when your pitch exceeds a certain frequency, you get a gate. Easy-peasy.

Incidentally, I don't use ANY Eurorack comparators. I have something far more killer...biomed dual window comparators, with two voltage crossing triggers, three voltage-dependent gates, and one duration-dependent gate per channel, all outputted on Dupont pins, plus a four channel MUX. When you know your "abuse potentials", you can find crap like that...

@donman90 - I wouldn't call Marbles a sequencer. It creates "sequences" - but they are really just generative randomizations in a scale, with a set root key of C. Very difficult to customize the scale - definitely not live or in "real time". It is more closely related to the Buchla 266e Source of Uncertainty, and the modules derived from that (Verbos source of randomness, Frap Sapel, Make Noise Wogglebug). Easiest way to explain it's output: Take noise, quantize it to a scale of C major (as an example), and combine it with a clocked random gate. and you get 3 of those whose gates follow a pattern whose randomness can be locked in a loop 1 - 16 notes long.
IMHO - A sequencer typically denotes that you can construct a sequence - ie. [Step 1, E2, 1/4 note] [Step 2, G2, 1/4 note] [step 3, B2, 1/8 note]... and so on.
The best thing to do to get experience with marbles, is download VCV rack (free), read the manual from Mutable, and experiment. It is REALLY FUN! But, I found after using it for a few months, music generated by it started to just sound all the same - random loops of bleeps and bloops with no real construct or form. Plus... I could generate these patterns with VCV and output the CVs and Gates from my computer for free and save 18HP.
For a sequencer - I think one is better off with things like Rene2, Five12 Vector, Eloquencer, Circadian Rhythms, Verbos multistage, Stillson Hammer, Mimetic Digitalis, Hermod, ER-101, NerdSeq, Metropolis, or my favourites: Frap Tools USTA, and Intellijel Tete/Tetrapad.

It is the sequencer in Minibrute 2s. It has four tracks. 1 & 2 are connected and gives pitch and gate.
Track 3 & 4 can be used for different purposes. Like pitch or gate. So with pitch on track 3 and gate on track 4 there is no problem. But I want to use both track 3 & 4 for pitch and then I have no corresponding gates.
But I guess there are modules that can convert a pitch cv to a gate cv.

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Which sequencer it is?

Thanks, Lugia. I'll take a look into that one, the main reason I have the dystopia on here is that I'm in love with how it absolutely destroys a sound. So if I can get that and some extra, then I'm absolutely all about checking it out.

The JP6-VCF is absolutely insane and was a must have for this since I first heard it, and it immediately turned into a must have. I'll do some rejigging on this then, thanks for the advice!

Filters aren't the only way to affect timbre, and you could probably get more mileage with just that JP-6 filter (having an actual Jupiter-6 for the past 30 years lets me be pretty confident with that statement) and some type of CVable waveshaper, such as Tiptop's Fold Processor. That would give you the same timbral flexibility as the distorter in the Dystopia...and then some! But as for having three VCFs in that small a build...well, that just makes no sense. You don't have the luxury of massive panel space. The ideas here are on the right track, but you need to keep your space constraints in mind in this small a cab.

Hello, I've recently taken the dive into modular with the Cre8Audio nifty bundle which helped eliminate the need for a few modules. I'm planning on doing some crystal castles-esque music, and this is the direction I've taken with the rack.

Looking for opinions before I start buying lots of modules and get addicted to the eurocrack. There's 3 different filters just for the variety of tones I want to be able to reliably create and I feel that each will bring something unique to the table.

As of right now, I only have the Contour (Being shipped), Chips, and Cellz. What would you do differently, or where would you go from here? If it looks fine then just ignore my newbie self.

Hi guys,
I unplugged the ribbon cable on the four bricks and I am not sure where -12v on the module is, can someone help me out with a picture? The manua
Didn’t help%%
Best a

I have a sequencer with a pitch cv output, but no gate trigger output.
Is it possible to use the cv output both as a pitch cv and a gate trigger?
For clarification:
I use the Arturia Minibrute 2s sequencer that have three separate tracks. I can use track 2 and 3 for pitch or gate cv.
So if I use track 2 for pitch cv I can use track 3 for gate cv and sync that to track 2 and then there is no problem.
But when I use both track 2 and 3 for pitch cv (two separate melody tracks) there is no corresponding gate cv for the two melody tracks.

Thanks for the response! The instruo stuff looks really cool.

From what I've seen the Marbles would be my pick of the sequencer, but I'm wondering if it's possible to do much sequencing with other modules at the start. I want to really get my hands onto the system and get an idea of how the basics with patching work before I just invest in all the modules I think I'll need.

I have just set up a new soundcloud page, some tracks will be DAWless, and some will be eurorack and ableton. I think they both have there strenghts, here is a deep tech jam with my eurorack and ableton, with a cheeky little sample that filters in halfway some of you may recognize.

Much thanks! downloads and rtfm

bought Ladik S-180 and S-183 from @pawal. friendly communication, smooth transaction and fast shipping! thanks!