Need help on creating/finishing system

Hey Friends,

First I just want to say what an awesome community this is. I honestly do not know where I would be with out all of this.

I am creating a modular synth and I need some help on what to add to make this specific system I am building work properly. I am fairly new in the world of modular synthesis so anyone's help would be awesome and bare with me. It will be used for live techno. I already have a Vermona DRM MkIII with triggers which I will be using for drums and I wanted to sequence with my custom rack. Does this system have the right modules in what I am trying to do?
I was going to sequence the Vermona using a Circadian Rhythm and everything else with the Metropolis and Mother 32. Will this work? How do I get each voice from the rack into its own channel on a mixer and into Ableton Live.

Should I use the WMD performance mixer or get a seperate analog mixer outboard and hook it up with my other analog synths and have more rack space for other modules. I also would like to put this into Ableton which I use a Focusrite Clarett 8Pre. The system is pictured below.

Thanks I really appreciate it,
KP

EDITED Jul 10th 2017, 13:35

Well, I'll kick in here. It's really hard to say where to go with this because there are so many different directions to go. I guess: what are you thinking you would like to do with this setup? And if you already own the Mother-32, Wasp filter and such, then you already have quite a bit there. I can tell you about the Erica Synths modules. They are top notch (but their Fusion line is expensive). I have their Fusion Mixer and I love it. Without knowing how you might want to use this setup, it's hard for me to say. If you're just looking for drones and sound scapes, then the Mother-32 is a place to start and then adding another noise source or oscillator. Go slow. It's an expensive domain here. In fact, now that I think of it, the Wasp filter and Wiard Oscillator fed into the Mother-32 might be interesting. You already have these. You mention other analogue synths. What other synths do you have? Because you already have a modular system going here.

cheers / alex

Hey Alex,

I would like to perform techno live with this setup. I was just wondering what other modules I would need to properly get this system up and running. I have a Vermona DRM MkIII with triggers which I use for drums and was wondering if I could use that with the Circadian Rhythms. Then sequence everything else with the mother 32 or metropolis. I understand it's an expensive domain. I said I am creating a custom rack so it will be built over time.

Hey, Do0mal. Sorry. You're right. Techno. My bad

So, question: what do you think of the Mother-32?

I've been doing this for a little over a year now. What I'm learning is that a system can always be changing and there may never be a perfect setup. That said I run my synth directly into a Presonus usb interface and then into either Reaper, Studio One, or Logic. Actually, my perferred order is Studio One then Reaper then Logic way down the line. I also run my synth into my DSI Pro-2 keyboard or I run the keyboard into the synth. Either way audio out is somewhere and that goes into the usb audio interface. Or a mixer.

Hmm. I feel maybe I'm still missing the point of your question. Come to think of it, what are you using for audio output? I don't think I see an output module. The Mother-32 has a 1/4" audio jack on the back side when mounted in Moog's case, but if you have it rack mounted, then you have lost the audio output (?). I use Make Noise Rosie and Erica Synth's Black Output module which I prefer now because it's a three channel mixer and provides L and R channels that go directly to studio monitors or usb interface or mixer.

So, one last thing I think of: Erica Synths musician on hand, Kodek, is pretty into techno. There are some great videos of him using their Pico system for some pretty amazing stuff. Perhaps you might get some ideas by watching? Just a thought.

Right now I'm in the process of redesigning my system of 50+ modules and rethinking enclosures. I'm getting to the point in my understanding of modular synthesis and sound and CV that logic modules are becoming necessary. When I started I was overwhelmed with half a dozen modules and no understanding of CV. Looking back I could have started with just an oscillator, a VCA, and MATHS or Function (I like them both), and an output module. What is waaaay more important is knowledge of how to use those few modules well. That knowledge I was lacking and it would have made a huge difference.

abs

Come to think of it, how do you get audio out of the Mother-32 if it's rack mounted? VC Mix?

It's not rack mounted yet. I am trying to create a system and need to know what modules to add to this one I am making on modular grid in order to send audio into a Focusrite Clarett 8 pre audio interface which I have or buy a mixer with plenty of inputs which I don't have yet. I record in Ableton Live. Do I need an output module for every voice ? I thought there was a way to sum everything together and send each synth voice from the modular to its own channel on the mixer or audio interface. How can I get this rack I am creating into a mixer having each its own seperate channel. The mother on one channel the 303 another and so on. I would be using a Vermona DRM MkIII for drums with trigger outputs into the circadian rhythms. How do I get the 8 parts of the Vermona drums out of the circadian into the audio interface or mixer?

EDITED Jul 8th 2017, 17:54

Okay. I think I get it. I'm going with this explanation, "I am trying to create a system and need to know what modules to add to this one I am making on modular grid in order to send audio into a Focusrite Clarett 8 pre audio interface which I have or buy a mixer with plenty of inputs which I don't have yet."

I took a look at the Clarett. Let's say you were interested in connecting only the Mother-32 so that it's audio can be recorded in Ableton. Then what you would do is connect the stereo output on the back of the M-32 to any two of the Clarett's 1/4" inputs. Let's say you chose the two on front. To do this you would need a 1/4" stereo to x2 1/4" mono y-cable or breakout cable. Or you could use a "breakout box" which provides these sorts of connections in a box instead of a cable (it's more flexible options wise). Set your levels and you're done!

Example 2 : let's say you want to instead use the rest of the modules you've specified in your case maybe with or without the M-32. Then you would need an output module such as the Make Noise Rosie or Erica Synths Black Output. The Black Output provides two 1/4" mono outputs which makes it super simple to patch into your Clarett using two mono 1/4" TS (tip-sleeve or mono) cables.

You could patch directly out from any module into the Clarett but the levels will likely be too high. Without a way to trim them, then you will be clipping your signal. You need a way to bring the signal strength of modular down to line level.

Now, you could get patch cables with built in resistors to trim the lines, but quality might suffer. Or! You might want roll your own and solder a resistor into a patch cable! That's always fun.

So, what is your opinion of the M-32 and Clarett Pre8?

abs

Okay. I think I get it. I'm going with this explanation, "I am trying to create a system and need to know what modules to add to this one I am making on modular grid in order to send audio into a Focusrite Clarett 8 pre audio interface which I have or buy a mixer with plenty of inputs which I don't have yet."

I took a look at the Clarett. Let's say you were interested in connecting only the Mother-32 so that it's audio can be recorded in Ableton. Then what you would do is connect the stereo output on the back of the M-32 to any two of the Clarett's 1/4" inputs. Let's say you chose the two on front. To do this you would need a 1/4" stereo to x2 1/4" mono y-cable or breakout cable. Or you could use a "breakout box" which provides these sorts of connections in a box instead of a cable (it's more flexible options wise). Set your levels and you're done!

Example 2 : let's say you want to instead use the rest of the modules you've specified in your case maybe with or without the M-32. Then you would need an output module such as the Make Noise Rosie or Erica Synths Black Output. The Black Output provides two 1/4" mono outputs which makes it super simple to patch into your Clarett using two mono 1/4" TS (tip-sleeve or mono) cables.

You could patch directly out from any module into the Clarett but the levels will likely be too high. Without a way to trim them, then you will be clipping your signal. You need a way to bring the signal strength of modular down to line level.

Now, you could get patch cables with built in resistors to trim the lines, but quality might suffer. Or! You might want roll your own and solder a resistor into a patch cable! That's always fun.

So, what is your opinion of the M-32 and Clarett Pre8?

abs

The Mother 32 is mono so it only needs a TS to TS 1/4 cable. So what your saying is in order to get each oscillator from the modular to a an external analog mixer or audio interface each on its own channel is you will need an output module in the end signal chain for each oscillator? Mother 32 to an output module then to channel 1 on external analog mixer. 303 Osc to filter, amp, e.g., lfo, effects then another output module to channel 2 on mixer. Wiard Osc to filter, amp, e.g. , lfo, effects then another output module to channel 3 on mixer? And so on so on?

Where is the the output module was also my first thought. maybe you should take a look at the make noise Rosie. It as a cue mixer and was made for live performance. So,maybe it's for you. But you may also consider the new Doepfer output module.

How many output modules do I need?

EDITED Jul 8th 2017, 21:57

Yes! suomynona is correct.

The minimum signal chain in a modular setup is

sound source -> output module.

That is a the most general (or abstract) signal chain.

A more specific and typical signal chain is

sound source -> VCA -> output module.

This assumes you have a method of turning the volume up and down on the VCA. You could physically turn knobs on a VCA and create some pretty cool stuff. But you will never be able to "turn" the knob as fast as voltage can. That is where the VC part of VCA comes in. For this you need an envelope generator (EG) such as Make Noise MATHS or Erica Synths Black EG/LFO module. Then there is the new Rossum Control Forge with which you can design arbitrarily complex envelopes. And the term envelope as used here can be confusing because even another oscillator can be used to generate envelopes to VCA to open the volume up and close it down. The Mother-32 gives you access to its EG which you can patch in and out, I believe.

Here is a more specific signal chain I used recently in a patch with modules I have

Erica Synths (ES) Black VCO -> Make Noise (MN) Optomix -> MN Erbe-verb -> ES Black Output.

The Optomix was being opened and closed in weird and funky ways using a Synthesis Technologies E350 (Morphing Terrarium). Also, I was using Rossum Control Forge to move around in the wave tables on the E350 which was continually altering the way the MN Optomix opened and closed. Now that I think about it I was sending ES Pico VCO into the second channel on MN Optomix. The same envelope was being used to open and close both channels on the Optomix.

The point here is that modules such as Optomix are mixers which is what you want. The output from your mixer goes to your output module which provides a line level signal to the rest of your outboard equipment to interface with your DAW and keyboards and such. The ES Black Output module is also a mixer as well as an output module.

Taking a signal directly out of a modular system can be done but it will be too hot for most audio equipment which is expecting a line level signal voltage (anyone know what the limits are of line level voltage?).

I hope this helps.

The Mother 32 is mono so it only needs a TS to TS 1/4 cable. So what your saying is in order to get each oscillator from the modular to a an external analog mixer or audio interface each on its own channel is you will need an output module in the end signal chain for each oscillator? Mother 32 to an output module then to channel 1 on external analog mixer. 303 Osc to filter, amp, e.g., lfo, effects then another output module to channel 2 on mixer. Wiard Osc to filter, amp, e.g. , lfo, effects then another output module to channel 3 on mixer? And so on so on?
-- Do0mal

I want to be clear here: to answer your question in bold above: YES.

And your examples are correct. I am not aware at this point of anyone who does this. It is perhaps less expensive to multitrack your recording in multiple takes using a single output module. A modular system is more than just a sound source. It's a sound system, but not in the traditional audiophile sense.

Than again it's hard to say. Perhaps you are developing a unique approach that no one else has bothered to develop yet. It's not like a ton of people on this planet are exploring this stuff. It's a pretty small community.