not strictly related to the tuning, but I have been thinking of getting one of these. As owners, would you recommend it over others (Cs-L, DPO, etc etc)? Anything to know about or consider that isn't apparent from the manual and demos?


I think it would be interesting to be able to take sounds from a track in Ableton (for example, i have an iPad with some cool/different synths (Animoog and Sound Prism to name just a couple)...and run them through various modules in my rack and then back into another track in Ableton...would that be accomplished with some sort of 'sampler' module?

-- jb61264

if you had an ES-9, you could send and return the audio using that module alone, plus a suitable digital link to the Focusrite (like an ADAT Lightpipe). This would also result in having dedicated interface I/O for the modular alone, which isn't a bad idea because, well, CV Tools. And yes, you CAN simultaneously move audio and CV signals over the same Lightpipe and Expert Sleepers module.

I'm a little confused on this...ADAT Lightpipe is for an optical connection? The Focusrite 8i6 doesn't have an optical connection but does have an S/PDIF in and out...could that be used? would i instead use the ES-4 SPDIF/CV Interface and get the same functionality? Would I still need an ES-8 or ES-9?

JB


I can't remember if those focusrite interfaces have balanced inputs or not
The Focusrite 8i6 has six balanced line inputs, and four balanced outputs

for amplification you could use an input module - or if you are not going to use it constantly something like MI Veils is a good buy as it has a lot of gain available, is 4 channels and is a cascading vca so can be used as a mixer - intellijel quad also does this - not many vcas do!
The MI Veils is on my list for my RackBrute 6U build....maybe it moves up the priority list a little? :)

but if you want midi i/o from the modular then befaco make both in and output 4 channel midi modules and are usually pretty good
Thanks for that recommendation!

JB


Thread: Change Log

search ignores diacritics

you can now search for tàin and tain and get the same result.

forum signature improved

  • fixed a bug in the signature where links could be broken
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Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net


Hi, I've been getting into modular lately with semi modular synths : DFAM and Mother 32 from MOOG.
My main goal here is to make percussive techno music and I've also been wanting to buy a Jomox Alphabase lately.
But what I realized is that what I really wanted was the kick from the Jomox Alphabase.
So I'm planning to add a third row to my system with the ModBase 09 mkII.
I've tried something here with info that I collected here and there but I don't want to mess it up.
Could you please help me improve this third row ?
Thanks !


ModularGrid Rack

ok so I decided on this as a happy compromise between feedback and the goals I had.

Thank you both for your wisdom and kindness.


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How about the STG Soundlabs Envelope Generator?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/stg-soundlabs-envelope-generator-

Another one is Klavis Quadrigy
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/klavis-quadigy

Third option could be Zadar
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/xaoc-devices-zadar


Especially for drums or short percussive envelopes I really like the old (and cheap) Doepfer A-142-4 Quad Decay. Sure it's decay only, but sometimes that will do just fine. A little harder to track down, but worth it for the amazing EG/HP ratio is the Bubblesound HEXa(s)r. The envelopes are all on the short side (something like a max of around 4s or so per stage) but again, lots of applications where a full ADSR is overkill. For more complex envelopes I love the Xaoc Zadar. My favorite classic ADSR is the Roland 540, but I guess the Frequency Central clone System X Envelope is just as nice.


I'm a huge fan of the Soundforce ADSR. I've found an exp adsr is really necessary to get the "pluck" out of my LPGs and VCAs/Filters. Also having control over all stages with attenuation is so great. Plus it has the ability to choose end of cycle gate, has cycling, and s/m/l stage length. It's big but it's worth it.


Thanks, Garfield! :)

I am inspired by birth, death and the events inbetween.

https://youtube.com/@aphewgoodman


It’s not “new” so I’m not really answering your question but really like the original Quadra, it has a different character to the Quadrax and I dare say a different sound, like a sizzle and it’s just such a playable module in such little hp…it doesn’t hurt to have it along if you just need more envelopes. For something different that can do other things I like stages which is a goto for gate like percussive envelopes and multistage. Then there’s Maths of course which gives you a lot of other functionality. But my favorite ultimately is Quadra, with or without the big ass expander.


Thread: real one

usher


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So as my modular system grows, I need to add even more new utilities like attenuators, cv/matrix mixers, and envelope generators. What are your favorite new envelope generator modules and why? I just added new modulation by ordering an Abstract Data Octacontroller to pair up with my Batumi for plenty of modulation channels as many modules beg to be heavily modulated by cv for cool patches. Now I find myself a bit short on the envelope area since my monster case only has Quadrax and one Doepfer ADSR module and with lot of drum and other voice modules, I need more ADSR type modules. Thoughts? My other case (MDLR) is good since that has an Erogeneous Tones Radar for EG stuff. I also ordered a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL to complement the Make Noise Mimeophon for spicing up patches with effects.


About the only "Maths alternative" aside of having a full-on analog computer would be to have a RandomSource Dual Universal Slope Gen (an exact Eurorack replica of the Serge original) plus some various routing and modification mojo...a MISO or Frap 321, a few VCAs, and maybe a mod or two to the RS module itself. It really IS one of the very few "mandatory" Eurorack modules out there!


I think it would be interesting to be able to take sounds from a track in Ableton (for example, i have an iPad with some cool/different synths (Animoog and Sound Prism to name just a couple)...and run them through various modules in my rack and then back into another track in Ableton...would that be accomplished with some sort of 'sampler' module?

-- jb61264

Nope...you'd first set up an external send and return path inside Ableton so that you can get the signal out and back. Then you'd use your DAW interface to get the signal into/out of the analog domain for the synth. Route the "send" through a suitable preamp to raise the signal to synth levels, and attenuate back down at the end so you're at line level to hit the return to the Focusrite. This is, of course, if you use the Focusrite for this; if you had an ES-9, you could send and return the audio using that module alone, plus a suitable digital link to the Focusrite (like an ADAT Lightpipe). This would also result in having dedicated interface I/O for the modular alone, which isn't a bad idea because, well, CV Tools. And yes, you CAN simultaneously move audio and CV signals over the same Lightpipe and Expert Sleepers module.


personally I would keep Maths - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it, it is a great primer for patching modular synthesizers in general

I would take disting from the lower case and take everything out of the 3u row of the other case except maths and fx aid xl, then add a quad cascading vca - such as veils and a full size plaits - which would leave 12hp - branches will fit in as you already have it - pick up a kinks whilst you can - there is stock in some shops but they are discontinued and great value for money! - leave the last 2 hp free until you work out what you actually need

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


you can use your audio interface, the appropriate cables, probably some amplification* and possibly attenuation or an output module - I can't remember if those focusrite interfaces have balanced inputs or not - but if they do or your power is unbalanced - then a balanced output module is probably a good idea

*for amplification you could use an input module - or if you are not going to use it constantly something like MI Veils is a good buy as it has a lot of gain available, is 4 channels and is a cascading vca so can be used as a mixer - intellijel quad also does this - not many vcas do!

not sure about midi as I don't really use it that much in that way - sometimes I use cv to midi cc for controlling a video synth, but not often

but if you want midi i/o from the modular then befaco make both in and output 4 channel midi modules and are usually pretty good

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


do you already have an audio interface?
if so which one?

do you already have midi i/o from computer?

-- JimHowell1970

I have the Focusrite 8i6. As far as MIDI i/o, it runs through the Focusrite...I have an Ableton Push 2 and also a Novation Launchkey 49 (sometimes I just have to have the keys vs pads :) and they are USB connected to my PC. I think it would be interesting to be able to take sounds from a track in Ableton (for example, i have an iPad with some cool/different synths (Animoog and Sound Prism to name just a couple)...and run them through various modules in my rack and then back into another track in Ableton...would that be accomplished with some sort of 'sampler' module?

JB


On my drive to work today I realized I had forgotten to mention that I have the Moog Subharmonicon, Behringer Model D, and Mutable Instruments Branches as well as an empty Intellijel 62hp palette. I think I'm going to take your advice and focus on just one case first. I need to remember that some of the utilities/functions are covers by the above mentioned units.

Apologies for the forgetfulness.

I won't be throwing the subH or model D into the palette but plan to use them in concert with it.

With these things in mind:
- what can I cut/merge from the second "utility" rack?
- is there an alternative to Maths that you'd recommend? (preferably less hp)

I'll be noodling on a copy of the main rack throughout the day but I'll leave the original as is so anyone can have a feel for what I was going for.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR GUIDANCE


I understand. Well, the builds looks amazing, and it was really nice to get feedback from experienced people. I didnt expect anyone to care to answer, but the response was way beyond my expectations, and it seriously helped me. I cannot thank you guys enough for the support and feedback.

Yes, Thomann is great. I have looked through some cases there, pretty neat ;)


do you already have an audio interface?
if so which one?

do you already have midi i/o from computer?

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Hi Gabor,

Oh that's an interesting and nice track you made there! Intriguing, I am going to hit the play button one more time, to make sure I heard everything :-)

Nice one! Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Thread: Derivator

Sure, the 2Win is the same general circuit, works much the same way. The panel's a little cryptic for my tastes, but it should be easy enough to sort out, and it drops right into the Dovemans' space.


+1 on expanding the case here. Doing so would make for a more effective build, plus with something such as a Mantis, you can probably wind up saving some money as you're not buying two cabs, two power supplies, two busboards, etc. Little cabs like these DO have uses, just not as the "canvas" for a full system build.


If you're planning to use CV Tools, I'd strongly suggest looking at one of Expert Sleepers' interfaces...the ES-8 or ES-9 would work perfectly, depending on how much I/O you need there. Plus, by going directly to that, you can forego MIDI altogether to the modular, and use the DAW's sync to keep the MIDI devices locked-up with the modular. Definitely more efficient.


Nope, I don't. These were all build reworks for other users that I did on here. When I work on those, I'm also working with my 40+ years of experience in electronic music plus a sizable background of material I've studied (and still do) to stay more or less up to speed in Eurorack.

Now, if you're in Norway, it would probably make more sense to go through Thomann, as they've got a huge selection of suitable cabs for rack frame mounting. Plus, they have cheap ATA cases, which will let you travel with everything prepatched...just pop off the lids, jack in, and cut loose!


Here's a sample design in 10 HP. I have no idea how to embed images, so a link instead.

It's called the "Stereo ! Mix", pronounced with a "bang", as in negation. That describes the standard use.

  • With the fader to the left, stereo A is sent to main.
  • With the fader to the right, stereo B is sent to the mains.
  • With the fader in between... well, it's a mix of the two.

The headphone output defaults to the "!" on the switch, meaning that the opposite signal is sent to the phones. This allows automatic cueing, without the need for cue buttons. Only the cross-mix fader is used in live performance.

But if you like, you can switch the headphones to monitor the mains. This can be useful in an environment where otherwise the mains are too quiet to hear.

I built a module like this in Reaktor that I've used for years. Here I've added CV control of the three input pots.

Could be smaller than 10 HP, but then it would be cramped. ;-)


In this patch QPAS is in "ping-mode" with triggers running into both of its inputs. More details in the video description.

I am inspired by birth, death and the events inbetween.

https://youtube.com/@aphewgoodman


a single case will be much more useful than splitting them up and probably work out cheaper in the long run

buy one that has space free after all the modules you want now - allow 10mA per rail for power for these and allow 25-30% headroom (to allow for inrush)

it will also allow you to replace the 2hp vcas with a quad cascading one, such as veils - which are incredibly useful and give you 4 channels + mixing for about the same amount of cash - plus better ergonomics - same with the micro clone - full size modules are much nicer!!!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Hi @Lugia, thanks again for some solid advice. These are some awsome looking rack housings, and would definitely support my needs, however, I am not in the US. I live in Norway, a bit far away you could say. But for now, I allready have a 19" rack. I bought some rack rails and built a 19" frame from some solid wood 2"by2", also functioning as some of the legs for the side-desk ;)

If the crypoto market allows, and I want to expand further from my first rack setup, I will definitely concider finding some similar rack housings to the ones you provided, giving they ship to Norway. It would be nice to be able to move my setup if I need to.

Btw, do you own any of the racks in your rack list here?


ModularGrid Rack

I've spent the last few months planning/researching/studying and finally feel good about these modules.

I ended up throwing some utility modules into a smaller, additional rack.
ModularGrid Rack

I'm wondering:
- am I missing anything crucial?
- should I scrap the additional rack and add more utility modules to the main one?

General feedback is more than welcome. I still feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
The kind of music I'd like to make ranges from drone/noise to rhythmic/spacey/electronically-orchestral.

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this.


So far, this is what I have in my RackBrute 6U build. One of my goals with this build is to not only integrate it with my Hydrasynth and Minibrute 2. I would also like to be able to integrate Ableton Live Midi, M4L devices, etc (I use a Push2 and LaunchKey).

ModularGrid Rack

Looking for recommendations on a module that would give me good midi integration between my eurorack/Hydrasynth and Ableton Live...I'd like to be able to record things in Live as I am messing around/experimenting so I can go back and scrub through recordings to find any 'happy accidents' to use. I have a Focusrite 8i6

Thanks for any recommendations!

JB


My proposal has 9 jacks, 5 pots, and a switch, in 10HP. Only one pot (the crossfader) is regularly adjusted during performance. The layout should give the crossfader a generous amount of room, free of jack connections.

This proposed panel seems generous compared to many existing modules. For example the WMD ALYS has 14 jacks, 2 pots, and a switch in 6HP. What I am proposing is actually more roomy. It will be easier to use for reasons of space and because it doesn't include unnecessary features. The whole point of this thread is that I don't wish to use the three cramped modules mentioned in the OP.

Larger mixers all have features that are inapplicable to the application I have described. That is because they are not designed for cross-fading two (and only two) stereo streams. Hence they waste space. (For other applications they might be fine.)

-- robin0112358

that's how a lot of modular companies get started - someone wants a module and it doesn't exist

all modular synths are compromises, to some extent, I would concentrate on getting something that ticks all the boxes that you need (either in a single module or a few modules) and not worry too much that there's an extra feature that so far you haven't got a need for - next week you might!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thank you ! Post it here so I can listen Robin


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You are welcome. I am always glad to share my tips from experiences. I am a beginner as well. Just last year, I took the eurorack plunge with a Doepfer A100 Basic system. Cost me about $1800 including tax/shipping but provided case, tools and modules to get started. I still use most of the Doepfer modules which sound amazing with other stuff. You could consider something like that or another prepackaged system to get started. Erica Synths Black System, ALM Busy Circuits Super Coupe, Endorphin.es Shuttle System and Make Noise provide great packages. I don't have a Maths but I use Quadrax from Intellijel that has similar features yet different. Quadrax with the expander is a pretty awesome alternative to Maths.


All the popular physical modelling units have been mentioned. I don't think there is much else, other than the 2HP units like Pluck. To go further into physical emulations in one module would require prohibitive amounts of DSP.

It might be more fun to study how the physics works and build up your own set of modules to experiment. If you don't have a copy of The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads, this would be a good excuse to invest.


My proposal has 9 jacks, 5 pots, and a switch, in 10HP. Only one pot (the crossfader) is regularly adjusted during performance. The layout should give the crossfader a generous amount of room, free of jack connections.

This proposed panel seems generous compared to many existing modules. For example the WMD ALYS has 14 jacks, 2 pots, and a switch in 6HP. What I am proposing is actually more roomy. It will be easier to use for reasons of space and because it doesn't include unnecessary features. The whole point of this thread is that I don't wish to use the three cramped modules mentioned in the OP.

Larger mixers all have features that are inapplicable to the application I have described. That is because they are not designed for cross-fading two (and only two) stereo streams. Hence they waste space. (For other applications they might be fine.)

I have already clearly said that because of my physical disabilities, I need to limit the size and weight of any rig I carry to a gig. This is hardly strange: many other performers have similar requirements (even if for different reasons). The lack of understanding here is perplexing.

OK, maybe 64 HP will be too small for the music I wish to make. Who knows? But that is also irrelevant to this thread. Because no matter what size the case, I don't wish to waste room on functions that are simply not needed.


Thread: Derivator

Thanks!
I'm giving Ladik a few months ;-)
By the way, Dovemans SHFT is hard to find.
Is Metabolic Devices 2Win a good alternative?


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Thanks Garfield,

Yes the Hexinverter Mutant Drum modules are really good. Lots of tone shaping and cv options. More traditional 808/909 drums but good stuff. Vector is great sequencer. Super easy to quickly modify a lead and pad synth sound on the fly easily for variety. I did order a Jomox bass drum module as well as the Hexinverter Mutant Hot Glue mixer and a Tiptop audio 909 clap module. So have plenty of drum and percussion now.


One other thing, also...since these Ladiks are so small and cheap, you might even consider getting a small skiff for several of them plus a power supply (or a powered skiff) to use as a dedicated CV source/controller that you can patch at will across the entire system. That would also give you a tad more space in the build, besides being a straight-up ergonomics WIN.


The problem with making your output mixer too small is that it'll be a major PITA to use. You CAN find mixers in that 10 hp and down size that will give you stereo, but as you make the module smaller, you also eliminate the room on its boards for VCAs, autopanners, etc etc while, at the same time, giving you a very fiddly mixer with no CUE function (no room for it, remember?), no VCAs, and so on.

Again, this gets back to this "beauty case" problem. The mixer you want here DOES exist...in fact, there's a few of them...but there's no way you'll be able to jam one of those AND all of the synth's basic modules into a small skiff like the above. Or rather, you COULD...but the result will be very fiddly and annoying to use due to the tight spaces left for your fingers in amongst the knobs and cables. Personally, I would go with a larger cab and larger panels to minimize ergonomic issues than going this small, which will just maximize them.


Thread: Derivator

To that? Well...not really. There are a few min/max discriminators, but pretty much nothing can track CV direction that I know of, with the exception of this Ladik module. However, there is one arithmetic module worth looking at IF you can find another 2 hp so it'll fit, and that's Mystic Circuits' ANA: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mystic-circuits-ana

It won't read movement, but it does have some useful twists on the usual discriminator circuit in that you can not only get your minimum and maximum CV levels out, but the difference value between them as well as a multiplication function for those. It also has a very interesting variation on the typical sample-and-hold, plus a BIPOLAR squaring function that results in variant square waves. Like I said, not exactly the same thing, but more than capable of trickery that would fill the bill.

Still, it may just as well be a situation where you have to wait for Ladik to crank out some more.


Well, if you want to go with open rack frames, I think there's a housing solution here that you'll dig (provided you're in the USA). I ran across a firm out of Missouri that builds serious, solid portable racks with a very shallow footprint, and I now have several pieces from them. Check this out: https://prospeakerparts.com/collections/rack-cases-carpet-covered-2f/products/procraft-10u-12-deep-equipment-rack-10-space-made-in-the-usa-w-rack-screws This could also hold a power conditioner or a tile row at 10U, but if you only want the space for 9U worth of frames, they've got that too: https://prospeakerparts.com/collections/rack-cases-carpet-covered-2f/products/procraft-9u-12-deep-equipment-rack-9-space-made-in-the-usa-with-rack-screws And there's several others that they do that are fairly Eurorack-friendly, including some snazzy angled racks for studio use.

But the back's open! Ahhh, that's easy too. They carry unmounted rack rails and both solid and vented rack panels, too! You could even go as far as mounting a 7U panel on the backside of that 10U unit and then a Eurorack frame in the bottom 3U for mounting power inputs and supplies, or even a dedicated 1/4" output pair...then just slap some blanks on the rest, and there you go! And that 12" depth is super-easy to tote, but if you go with a smaller cab, you can get into 9" depths: https://prospeakerparts.com/collections/rack-cases-carpet-covered-2f/products/procraft-6u-9-deep-equipment-rack-6-space-made-in-the-usa-with-rack-screws And in fact, there's one sitting to my immediate left right now, housing the remaining patchbays on the right side of the desk. Nice stuff!


Tony Rolando really knocked it out of the park with the Maths design, actually. The Maths is ridiculously capable as a modulation source or, since it descends from the Serge DUSG, you could even use it as an oscillator. It turns up all over the place, almost like a standard device, because it's VERY difficult to overtax it in terms of complexity...despite it being deceptively simple to use. 20 hp of lightning in a bottle!


Hi Sacquy71,

Ah another nice jam and video from you! It's nice to see those percussion modules from Hexinverter, wasn't aware of them yet! Do you like them? They sound quite good! Nice to see your Vector into action :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Thread: Derivator

I need a derivator. The only one I have found is Ladik J-110 but that is out of stock.
Is there any alternative?


this user has left ModularGrid

Superb cathedral sounds! Well done.


Hi, thanks for the tips @Mazz. I have a tiptop audio rack (a kit) that cam with the µZeus power supply and a 1000mA power adapter. But when I expand the rack to more rows, I will remove the Zeus and place a PSU behind the rack with some bus boards.

I came across the DOEPFER A-100DIY1 KIT 1 WITH DOEPFER 15V2.5 AMP TRANSFORMER, which comes with a power adaptor with 2.5A (I dont have to deal with the wall current), 2 x 22socket bus boards, and it also comes with 4 x 84HP rails! btw, the PSU delivers 1.2A, similar to the Doepfer PSU2.

Basically, to get my 2nd and 3rd row, I simply need some rack ears and Im good to go... buy modules


Nice one! I hope to try something not dissimilar.


For the sake of completeness, I will link to Martin Doudoroff's fantastic compilation of mixers. It is clear from that list that there is no solution for my simple task, likely because there is no tradition of stereo paths in Eurorack.

For any designers who might be reading, I will specify my ideal Stereo Crossfade Output Mixer. This is optimised for the least amount of contact during performance.

  • Two stereo inputs (A and B), each with an attenuator (pot and CV control) and post-fader metering (LEDs).
  • Two stereo outputs (main and cue):
  • The first (main) output normalled to a pair of line-level outputs, with a level pot and metering.
  • The second (cue) output normalled to a stereo headphone jack, with a level pot and metering.
  • A cross-fader mixing the inputs to both the main output and the cue output (inverse of the main mix). Therefore, when the fader is all the way left, input A goes to main and input B to cue. When the fader is all the way right, input B goes to main and input A to cue.
  • A switch for the headphone out, selecting main and cue.

My initial rack combined the WMD Axys stereo mixer with the Erica Synths Pico Out for headphones and Ladik A-541 for balanced line output. But this is cumbersome, requiring three modules in 13 HP. By contrast, the above spec can be achieved easily in 10 HP.