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This is enough to start with without frustrating you, even without the FX Aid. The pitch sequencing options on Pam's are relatively simple but work for exploration. When considering a complex oscillator (or even a simpler one), think about what kinds of modulation it might need, and how you plan to provide it.

Katowice does filtering but I don't think it is what you want for a case this small; it is a bit more specialized. Watch some demos of it and Ikarie and you will see the difference. How do you plan to sequence pitch? Pam's is somewhat limited in this respect. What other equipment do you plan to use (at a minimum, to listen to it)?

If you haven't bought any of this yet, I suggest that you write up the goals of your system, and go through the various categories of modules, asking yourself whether you need one in each category (or why you don't). You will probably come up with a final list of choices that is larger than this case. You might be tempted to get very small modules to squeeze them all in, but that may not be a good idea. Instead, consider a larger case.

they run into this problem over and over and over again
-- Ronin1973

You see it happening over and over again. Each of them is going through it for the first time. Teachers have to keep this in mind.

@LJRo, the Mordax Data is a good learning and debugging tool, but your case is too small for it. Even with it removed, your system is going to be limited and probably frustrating. If you stick with this case, you will at a minimum have to get rid of one of the larger modules. The better option is to think about a bigger case, and do some planning, with proper choices for envelopes or function generators, VCAs, and utility modules. You don't have to get it all at once; you can grow into it, if you choose judiciously.

Post a link to your rack rather than a picture. Modular Grid will reference a picture of your rack but then I can just click it and take a deeper look at your modules.

Here is your primary issue. Your case is too small. That's the beginning and the end of your problems. Everything else is just a bandage at this point. You're going to go around and around trying to make choices and compromises when one of the cheapest things that you can do is just get a bigger case. A Mantis (for example) has 208HP of space and is under $350.

Everyone tries to build their modular battleship in a bathtub and they run into this problem over and over and over again. Skiffs and small racks are NOT for beginner systems. It's a terrible place to try and save money and you f--- yourself over every.single.time.

Sell the old case. Buy a bigger one.

I would get rid of the Mordax in favor of using the 16HP for other utility type modules. You already have two oscillators in the build (which is probably too much in a small build like this) and you have two other large modules in Maths and Morphagene. You could probably benefit from FX Aid XL (or just the regular FX Aid), Frap Tools 321, and maybe a small mix module as well. I would also recommend you consider a multifunctional module like ornament and crime and/or Disting EX...yes, you have to do some menu diving with those modules but in smaller setups like this its almost one of those 'trade-offs' that you have to consider to get as much functionality/HP as you can.

There are other awesome people on the forum who will be able to probably do better exact recommendations but as someone who has a couple smaller builds myself, those are things I would consider.

Hi looking from some advice before filling out the last 12hp
purpose of this rack is to have live performance/recording, without sameples or anything

I have already purchased all the other modules(like an idiot) and left with 12hp realizing that I need more VCAs

For sequencer/hands-on-control I've got Arturia beatstep Pro in action
And for mixer/output I've got 1010music BlueBox

I have mutable inst Links as well, but not sure If I want to put it in(cause I'll be left with only 8hp)

so in conclusion I'm looking for module(s) to fill that empty 12hp(or 8hp including links)

After my own research I came up with 3 modules. Instruo Vinca, 2hp VCA and 2hp ADSR, but not sure If its right

I'm open for new suggestion and I'm thankful for those who take a look

Hey there, can i have some thoughts about my possible first rack. is something missing? thanks
additional: Intellijel quadVCA or ALM tangel quartet? and does Katowice work as a filter or should i go with for exampel Ikarie(Bastl) or ALM Mum8?
-- Figo

Floored by the kind and detailed responses; thanks to both of you! An adjustment follows below (with optional FX...):

To Chinipira:

What is a minimum viable synth that is fun enough that you won't be disappointed and sell the whole thing in frustration.

You summarize well my initial objective!

I don't know Permutation but instead of that I'd recommend Pamela's New Workout.

Pam is indeed on my radar. I suppose it has more functionality, which should be a priority at this point. Still on the fence.

I love effects, get a Happy Nerding FX Aid (maybe XL) if your budget allows. Filters are also great but you can start without one. You can even create filter-like effects with Maths.

Good idea about the effects (though +1 module). My thoughts exactly on the filter.

Also, if you have other hardware, like a drum machine, find a way to connect them to your modular. For MIDI there are many modules, like the Mutant Brain. For connecting to a DAW the Expert Sleepers ES-8 or ES-9 might be the best, but there are other options too.

I do have an MPC 2000XL lying around... eventually will connect it to the modular. Trying to stay off the computer.

To bopodoq:

3) VCA, I second MI Veils and Intellijel Quad VCA. WMD has the Javelin which is a full ADSR with integrated VCA and separate envelope output (great 'bang for the buck').

There appears to be strong consensus to have a quad VCA and a separate output module. I have made that adjustment, even though it breaks my 4 module constraint.

To both of you:
With respect to the Cloud Terrarium, I am not dogmatic and indeed followed uninhibited excitement on this one. While seemingly controversial, I like the screen. The 4ms Ensemble Oscillator also interested me. A complex oscillator like an Odessa/Endorphin.es Furthrrr/etc appears to afford more functionality though, and can implement some of the ideas suggested by bopodoq.

Checking out page source and a few network requests, I came up with two more ideas!

1. Save some hosting money and bandwidth! It looks like each rack view is loading both the "thumbnail" WebP rack image for each module as well as the full-size PNG that is shown when you click the magnifying glass in the hover-tools. For my 6-row, 150U wide cabinet, that's a total of about 7MB. On subsequent page loads that gets smaller (hooray, cache!), but it seems like it'd save time for users and money for you to only load the full-size images on-demand, when the user actually clicks on the full-size magnifying glass. It looks like the gear.svg file is loaded on-demand when I move a module -- same concept could save a lot of network bandwidth for your site and your users.

2. ModularGrid API for Unicorns! The rack data is embedded in the page server-side (it seems like), rather than loading with a separate GET request; moving a module happens over a GET request to a path that acts like loading a move.json file, rather than a POST, etc. The great thing about an API is you could offer developer access to Unicorn accounts: An API key that paid accounts could use to build their own UIs, add their own UI/UX features, etc. The APIs could still require a valid user login/session (so that MG still controls feature access and user accounts), and if you asked Unicorns to enter the URL to whatever they build, you could check their work out and learn from whatever they build. Modular Grid As A (paid!) Service! Another cool thing: you can build a new API server separately from the current site, if it's too complicated to convert the site to web-client-and-backend-API-server — https://api.modulargrid.net/ or whatever — and use the same image-store and database(s) as the web site uses.

I would start with a more traditional setup to start.
1) VCO's, one or two to start, analogue or digital. With more than one, you can stack and cross modulate. I would also get a noise source. Make Noise STO is great, flexible and reasonably priced.
2) Filter, many different styles, low-pass to start but there are many multi-mode filters that do lowpass/ bandpass/ highpass simultaneously. Modulation of a filter can make your system sound like two or three simultaneous instruments.
3) VCA, I second MI Veils and Intellijel Quad VCA. WMD has the Javelin which is a full ADSR with integrated VCA and separate envelope output (great 'bang for the buck').
4) Function generator, Rise/ Fall will do envelopes on a one-shot basis or will loop as an LFO. Maths is great as is Intellijel Quadrax (4 rise/ fall, but no mix and Or/ Sum/ Inv).
5) Output module, L/R 1/4" Stereo out + 1/4" Headphone Jack (you need a means of listening to your results and get them out of the box if that is your intent). I have a WMD and Befaco but there are many others.
6) Additional modulation: Random generators, Touring Machine is great. Sample and hold (often good for a noise source as well).
7) FX. It may seem like a luxury to start but a nice reverb or delay can makes things sound huge and otherworldly. I second FX Aid as a start.
8) Mixers are important but you have only two signals to mix in your current setup. I use Befaco STMix for submitting as it will mix 4+1 stereo signals (or mono normal to both channels) and is DC coupled and will mix CV. There are many others.
9) General utility, Multiples (buffered? or not), attenuators (Synth Tech modules have onboard attenuation so perhaps not as big a deal to start),
Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium probably wouldn't be my first choice to start but if you want to go that direction, what ever will keep you motivated and interested is important. Mantis case is a great start. Good luck!

Hey there, can i have some thoughts about my possible first rack. is something missing? thanks
additional: Intellijel quadVCA or ALM tangel quartet? and does Katowice work as a filter or should i go with for exampel Ikarie(Bastl) or ALM Mum8?

EDITED Jan 18th 2022, 13:46

It's a hard question, what to start with. What is a minimum viable synth that is fun enough that you won't be disappointed and sell the whole thing in frustration.

Key is versatility I guess.
I don't know Permutation but instead of that I'd recommend Pamela's New Workout. It can generate gates (logic, euclidean, random etc), CVs (also quantised, random, looped random etc), clocked modulation, simple envelopes, LFOs, random stuff on 8 channels. It's great to start out with and it remains great in a big system.

I suppose you saw/heard Cloud Terrarium online and you like how it sounds. I think there is nothing wrong with going ahead and getting it if you can afford it. I think it's important that you find your modules exciting.

Instead of the Mix3 get an output module that has a built in mixer, like 4ms Listen Four. You need to attenuate Eurorack levels to line levels, and maybe you'd like to attach headphones. Get a submixer once you have more voices. Mixing CVs is also important, but Maths will help with that too. For later check out Happy Nerding 3xMIA:

Maths is great to start out with and remains great as your system grows. It can even be used as dual analog oscillators that can also track V/Oct to some extent in the lower frequency spectrum.

I love effects, get a Happy Nerding FX Aid (maybe XL) if your budget allows. Filters are also great but you can start without one. You can even create filter-like effects with Maths.

Mantis is a good choice as a case!

Edit: almost forgot, you will need a VCA from the beginning. Without one, you will only be able to make drones. Get one with variable response curves (exponential for audio, linear for CV). Mutable Instruments Veils or Intellijel Quad VCA is generally recommended.

Also, if you have other hardware, like a drum machine, find a way to connect them to your modular. For MIDI there are many modules, like the Mutant Brain. For connecting to a DAW the Expert Sleepers ES-8 or ES-9 might be the best, but there are other options too.

EDITED Jan 18th 2022, 12:25

Can i run all these off two PSU moduels as show? I'm using wooden rails and I have concerns the Tiptop Audio uZeus may overheat.

Has anyone put a heatsink on the uZeus before?

Thank you

(...) Does the Xaoc Batumi have this ability? I do suppose I could look myself…
-- aheath73

‘The reset/sync input is an user-defined trigger input that can serve as either cycle re-set or external tempo sync’ (Batumi user manual: http://xaocdevices.com/main/batumi/)
The pleasure of opening a manual...

You do realise that WD-40 is named as such as its 'Water Dispersal version 40' its made for dispersing water on your car with old-fashioned Points on the ignition system. Don't put that shit anywhere near a synth in my opinion!

I currently have Ts-L, marbles, maths, veils, desmodus, and HPO. Three voices might be too many at this size, but to my eyes I think it works. Ts-L is either a voice or an LFO and BIA is on percussion. I like Mixup and HPO in the case as I want to use it as a standalone instrument. Mimetic has double duty as pitch CV quantized through o_c running hemisphers and as a modulation source. The sequential switch is something I thought to try with mimetic and varigate to get longer and selectable sequences.

The oddball here is probably beads. I'm not sure about it in this rack but I think I need another source of sound morhping. Mimeophone would be great but make noise is impossible to get.

The other half of o_c will probably run envelopes most of the time.

I don't really have a patching style yet, I'm just getting started and only have a few modules. I lean to a more east style and I prefer sounds in scale and not a haphazard collection of beeps and boops or harsh noise. I tried to pick modules that have purpose and have good features per HP, though marbles and maths are debateable. I took marbles out of the rack posted since varigate and mimetic should be more than enough. Marbles is very playable though so it could find its way back in.

Or just get one of Syinsi's tile-only cases...

-- Lugia

I looked at that after I saw the post. https://syinsi.com/shop/specials/5u-case-custom/

That's completely new to me man. It looks like you get kind of locked into their design form factor, etc...

Eh. It was the smallest one I saw. I could always just duct tape a few modules together minding nothing gets grounded out.

Folks,

I'm new to Eurorack and am planning my first purchases. I am thinking of getting a Mantis case and four modules to start (I find constraints helpful).

I'd like to have system that is (i) immediately capable of generating sounds on its own and (ii) affords me ample learning opportunities. Eventually, I am interested in building out the rack and adding a complex oscillator, but would like to explore the Cloud Terrarium first (and also add some more modulation sources/utilities).

Any thoughts or opinions about this start would be greatly appreciated!

Link: https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1808557.jpg

EDITED Jan 18th 2022, 04:10

Yes it is. I'm going to inquire what it does better other than an internal VCO than the competition. At 6HP it is nice and compact though.

Very interesting about the history of pitch tracking and synths in terms of p-2-v tracking. I'd think if you prefilter the instrument you can cut out the interfering harmonics coming into the envelope follower. However, if you wanted to mix acoustic and electronic, I'm not sure this is beneficial as you're taking away character of the instrument.

I think I'll muck with the Disting first before diving in. To make this work I'd think I'd need a mic pre first to get it up to a decent level.

Since you have the space, maybe consider a Doepfer A-143-9 instead of the A-145-4...

I would agree with everyone that you shouldn't necessarily plan everything out. I have a Rackbrute 6U filled out and now a 3U. I think in time I will get another 6U to combine with my existing 6U...I like what I'm building with the 3U accompanying my Minibrute2 keyboard synth...lots of effects/modulation in my 3U that really compliment/extend the Minibrute2.
-- jb61264

Great suggestion! Love the expanded functionality of the Doepfer 143-9…. Unfortunately all my Canadian retailers don’t have it in stock at the moment…

I do like having the Quad LFO module…. So useful for pulling out multiple modulation sources. Do you know if anyone makes a clock-syncable quad LFO? Does the Xaoc Batumi have this ability? I do suppose I could look myself… but where’s the fun in that?!

Since you have the space, maybe consider a Doepfer A-143-9 instead of the A-145-4...

I would agree with everyone that you shouldn't necessarily plan everything out. I have a Rackbrute 6U filled out and now a 3U. I think in time I will get another 6U to combine with my existing 6U...I like what I'm building with the 3U accompanying my Minibrute2 keyboard synth...lots of effects/modulation in my 3U that really compliment/extend the Minibrute2.

got the 'now shipping' newsletter. see modulargrid news for further info. yahoo!

and just to add bravo to tiptop for keeping to their prices! i had my doubts but they proved me wrong.

EDITED Jan 19th 2022, 15:41

I couldn't find DeoxIT in my local store either and looking at the distribution page it doesn't seem to be available in my country. However, searching on Amazon the DeoxIT D100S-2 seems to be available and I guess it would do the work too, so probably ordering it even though is much more expensive than the wd-40.

DeoxIT International Distribution:
https://caig.com/distribution-2020/?cn-s=&cn-cat=8

You can search by country from there.

All the best.

I currently use DeoxIT Faderlube for scratchy pots with great results but years ago I used WD 40 very often. I know it's a formula for water displacement but it also lubricates a bit and I could revive some pots and buttons with it.

Get that into a pot, and you're going to probably need to replace that pot soon after that.

It might not be the ideal solution but I don't have any broken pots due to WD 40, I don't think it is corrosive like Kontakt 60.

So… it’s been a few months and my modular journey continues! Here’s where my setup currently sits and I’d love to get some updated feedback from the group-mind!

So the top three rows are my current setup, with the 4th row being modules that are about to arrive. The top 2 rows represent a Rackbrute 6U case setup vertically, while row 3 is a home built skiff that sits in front of the Rackbrute.

In the future, I plan to build another 6U + 3U enclosure to house the Moog trifecta along with additional sequencing, utility and mixing modules…

My goal continues to be dabbling with a mixture of ambient/generative along with a smattering of simple house and techno beats. I create my drum beats externally with a Roland TR-6S and am also syncing up an MS-20 and a Behringer Crave into my mix. When needed, I’m using an Arturia Keystep Pro as a sequencer and master clock.

I suppose I’m looking for efficiency/redundancy tips and guidance. I feel like I’m lacking in a couple important categories:

• internal multitrack sequencing alongside the Pam’s to drive the oscillators and other sound sources
• stereo mixing output (I’m leaning towards a Befaco Stmix in kit form as a love the soldering/DIY aspect!)
• pitch quantizing (the 2HP Tune doesn’t quite feel powerful/versatile enough)
• more effects (😂)

Anyways, thanks for looking and would love some constructive tips and feedback…

Thanks everyone!

Hi,
I’d add one or two mults, a “rack internal” mixer or two (Doepfer mini stereo a-138s or Intellijel mixup for instance) and maybe some straightforward doepfer adsr or something like that. The MI modules are often very versatile in the env/vca field but I like to have a few smaller simple dedicated of these as well.
I’m all for the niftycase and its very functional midi/cv functions. I started out (for the second time) with Rackbrute 6U and a 4ms pod but I’m thinking of getting a niftycase too for more midi/cv possibilities.
If you’re still into keeping this relatively small I’d recommend MI Marbles for semi random sequencing and pattern creation. Marbles is just great, so musical and a real hub in my setup.

(Edit: removed unnecessary SQ-1 recommendation since you already have the Keystep :-) . )

EDITED Jan 17th 2022, 10:50

Hi Jim,
This is what I have already fella.....
All the best
D

...YEPPP!!!

...I've got myself one of these sound studio threes, ...and, I haven't yet got myself in the correct "mood", ...to start to learn how to use any of these things yet, at all, ...I just haven't done anything with them yet, ...but, with glorious videos like this one out there, ...it definitely helps, ...as they are just trully inspirational!!!

...ohhh, maannn, ...I really got to buckle down, ...and learn how to use all of these suckers sometime really soon!!!

...so, ...thank you for this inspiration, that you have shared with us!!!

is this a plan or what you already have or somewhere in between?

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Hi Everyone,
Thoughts on my rack would be greatly appreciated. I'm very much still learning, so your help would be great as I can appreciate it can probably be improved easily....
Cheers
Darren

Damn, that's spendy...but given that high-quality pitch-to-voltage conversion has been a "holy grail" of sorts in synthesizers, it's not surprising. The big problem lies in tracking...for example, with a lot of synth sounds, there's some significant manipulation of that sound's fundamental and harmonics. What eventually results, if one harmonic really pops out, is mistracking. Sometimes this is interesting...but most of the time, it's an annoyance.

It's also worth noting that trying to adequately implement p-2-v tracking is one of the main factors that wrecked ARP c. 1980. Look up their Avatar guitar synth for a dive into music business HORROR. Also, Korg's tried this twice...once with the MS-20's input section, and the other was the X-911 guitar synth. Neither worked as advertised on that one point, but they're great for glitchy chaos on unpitched signals such as electronic percussion; this is, in fact, much of the secret behind Aphex Twin's ear-bending drum patterns, as he used (and probably still does use) drum machines through an MS-20 and some "creative" settings to generate those distortional and damaged drum bonks and snarls. This is a lot of the reason why the reissue still has that section.

I don't know if it's a EU/US thing, but if I google DeoxIT I get tons of WD-40 results in front. Is it the same product? It's certainly cheaper.
-- Mazz

Oh, HELL no! WD-40 is basically spray-on cutting oil, like 3-In-1 Oil or Liquid Wrench! Get that into a pot, and you're going to probably need to replace that pot soon after that. The only similarities to DeoxIT there is that both come in a spray-can...and that's IT.

Now, as for cleaning panels...I use a rather small shop-vac + a couple of tight-space brush attachments. Even with that vacuum, it still takes a brush to knock the dust up so the vacuum can deal with it. Note, however, that a vacuum will not deal with bloodstains...although, that will probably be of more concern to the 1st-gen Industrial and Power Electronics crowd.

I will be in contradiction with most suggestions on this forum but anyway...

Buy a smaller case
-- defragmenteur

Or just get one of Syinsi's tile-only cases...

EDITED Jan 16th 2022, 21:17

This feels really nice and I like the various layers that grab you for a moment only to disappear or fade before you can truly comprehend them—nice mystery.

Yes, this I'm excited about. I hope a Hi-Z option will be available. Wonder how long we'll have to wait?

Hmmm, guess they forgot about this one. Any good Hi-Z input modules with 1/4"/6,3 TS inputs you would recommend for electric guitar interfacing?

Not sure I want to go with the Instruo. I'll have to check out both MI Links and Kinks and CVlization as other options now that I've removed the Voltage Block. I was considering the Varigate 4+ as an alternative.

This is my current iteration. I've swapped the Ciao for the Befaco Out v3 and the Sonicsmith ConVertor E1. The Sonicsmith will be used to pitch track acoustic instruments.

I know that Disting can do this, but the results I've heard seem a little lacking.

I found this module from Sonicsmith.
https://sonicsmith.com/products/convertor-e1/

Looks pretty compelling and a little spendy at $390. However I suppose it does 3 different things - mic pre, envelope follower, and VCO. Thoughts?

Any other good options here?

I'm listening to a lot of old tunes atm which are something like a mixture between dub techno and ambient music (echospace/deepchord/basic channel etc etc)

for this one i've recorded two pad sounds from Radias into Arbhar and sent the result to the rest of the fam. I made 3 different patches with different speed and this is the second one. hope you like it, headphones are recommended. at the end i added a field recording and some compression. this will be part of my upcoming album.
enjoy:)

sounds like a live improvisation to some generative sounds, great work!

Do it, go full on Freddy Mercury.... Embrace that duster, if it works, it works :) I use a clean paintbrush but cat hair is still tricky.

Btw, Don't use WD40

I don't know if it's a EU/US thing, but if I google DeoxIT I get tons of WD-40 results in front. Is it the same product? It's certainly cheaper.
Also, I know it's not the manliest of sights, but I use one of these artificial feather dusters for all my gear and so far I've had no dust-related problems. And it's so light you can dust your VCOs without getting them out of tune!

I will be in contradiction with most suggestions on this forum but anyway...

Buy a smaller case

Well - I've finally decided to try this.
I've started by getting an Intelligel 4U 62HP case.
I've watch a many videos and played with VCV Rack to start getting an idea on where to go with this build. One of the things I've noted form other videos and builders is the suggestion to gear the rack for a particular sound or target output. To that end I've decided to attempt a Kraftwerk sound.
I want to have good filters, several LFOs and at least two VCOs. I've heard more than once you can't have too many VCAs, but the case is limited for a reason to 62HP... that being = I don't wan't to get carried away with the first try...

I'll update as time permits.

atomkey.

For cleaning — DeoxIT
https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/
-- cmb_

I use and endorse DeoxIT, frankly! My can of D5 is currently sitting next to the Digisound 80, in fact. The stuff might seem like it's just basic "contact cleaner", but it goes a lot further than that...it adds lubrication to a pot that doesn't gum up after time, for one thing. And then, yep, it's got some anti-tarnish ingredients to help keep contacts from getting crapped up again.

It was so ubiquitous in Nashville back in the day that, if you ran into a crackly pot or intermittent switch with the resulting noise, everyone would be lunging for the DeoxIT can, unspoken rule-style.

For cleaning — DeoxIT
https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/

-- cmb_

"Rejuvenator and protector". I may use that one on myself instead

The 8 files have to be named "1.wav" to "8.wav" and be in the root folder of your SD card. Each file should be 32 kbyte.
I never had anything else on the SD card, and it always worked without a problem. You can also try a different SD card.