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thoughts

weird size rack - I count 94 - and with an intellijel 1u? unusual but not impossible - unless you are using the intellijel cases 1u modules designed to connect to points in the intellijel cases are pointless - check the 1u - at least some of them are specifically designed to work with intellijel cases!!!

I think you are adding too many large functional modules (specifically sound generation and processing and modulation generation) and not enough utility - which is where you need to concentrate in order to make this more than a single patch wonder - not enough possibilities for the multing, modifying and combining of control voltages, no where near enough vcas

For the number of sound generators and modifiers you have, though I don't think you have enough modulation - take out the furmana and add kinks and a matrix mixer

How are you sequencing?

How are you mixing?

Personally I would abandon the concept of planning a modular at this stage in your journey

I would simply get as big a case as you can (Mantis is good, or whatever this is if you really want the 1u) a single sound source, a single modulation source, a single sound modifier, a way to listen and a way to play and learn to patch what you have inside and out before adding anything else - once you've done that you will probably know that you need a module to do something that you are missing, buy that and repeat - continue in this vein for 6 months or so - then take a look back at this and try to build another rack around these modules - it will probably be 50% bigger - and that's just adding modulation for the furmana!

do you want suggestions?

if so modulation (Maths and stages perhaps) and utilities (kinks a matrix mixer) would seem like a good place to start

one sound source - any of the VCOs
one modulation source - maths
one sound modifier - a filter
a way to play - either use the BSP you already have or get the es9 - up to you
a way to listen - quad vca

maybe add kinks to this

learn everything inside and out

add one module at a time - unless you realise you need more utilities to make it work properly - and repeat....

other than ergonomics - no - but they are very personal - go slowly and expand slowly (with what you need, not just what you want) is the key to getting a playable and interesting modular

Thanks for detailed answer @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia
Indeed I need to change my way to procede. Looking for modules on Youtube isn't the best way to explore patches and trigger your creativity. You get easily seduce by sexy modules while being new. I totally agree

learning....

First yeah I have to take those moog modules out of the case to free the space in order to add a bunch of utility and logic modules (I haven't looked up for a matix mixer but now that I did, I cleary need one) I think I'll go for a joystick too (Planar² seems great fun)

yeah a matrix mixer and a handful of stackcables makes you modulation go a lot further - especially when paired with a kinks

For sound sources, it's clear that I need more. I was planning to get a piston Honda and some filters (one Polivoks filter for sure)

Not convinced - I count 6 in total (including clouds) already!

I was planing to get more VCAs (Hexvca Befaco) and a quad attenuator in order to throw a bunch of them in my patches to have more control of each patches and send them to my mixer Worn Soundstage. I believe this enough to have a good mix of all my patches, but I'm not 100% certain.

I would just go with 2 2hp trim modules for attneuation - and see if you need more vcas - you may not

I'm not planing to sell anything yet, I'll buy more modules and explore the patches. See what do fits the best and then sell what I don't need anymore.
Thanks a lot for bringing your expertise!

-- Angular_drift

I haven't sold a single module in over 3 years

Mind you in the last 30 years I have only sold 3 guitars and a bass - to fund modules - I still have guitars and a bass though

I'd add an AISynthesis matrix mixer and kinks - multing your modulation to these will add more much variety than either zadar or batumi

looks like you'd have 2hp left for a 2hp trim module or a dreadbox div

I agree about maths - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - check out the illustrated manual online for (self) patch ideas

another option would be to buy another case now instead of a module - that way you don't have the I only have xhp left itch - hehehe

EDITED Sep 13th 2020, 18:51

show us your rack - what you alrerady have will help determine better what you should add

yeah - not a bad go - not a fan of xpan or rosie - do you really need crossfading? I'd go happy nerding panmixjr/stereo mixer instead and a 2hp headphone module

which would save 4hp with the 3hp you already have free - that gives 7 which is a pain - something 4hp and something from the erica pico series - or maybe 2 2hp modules - maybe they do a crossfader if you need it

you might want to update your maths to a more modern version - the one with white knobs is the latest!

nice
good idea try not to buy modules - I have only bought 6 this year so far - I'm going to try to keep it down to about another 3 and maybe a couple of diy ones - plus at least some of the components for my diy backlog - otherwise I'll be needing a new case too

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 21:14

nah it's a great module as is
I just think I'd rather have a zadar or a batumi or another stages...
or some inexpensive doepfer ones with resets

@JimHowell1970,
Realizing that half of a modular setup is utilities and support modules and not 20 fancy oscillators or filters
-- sacguy71

even when one has a massive case!

yeah I'm mostly looking to buy/build only knob per function modules myself - not that I haven't got quite a few multi function modules - mutable and the like

we'll see... I doubt it though - I'd want a reset I think!
I already have a decent amount of modulation!
who knows what the future holds though... it's a definite possibility - if only it was twice the size and pingable!

yep disting does require a little menu diving - but it is really minimal - unless you are trying out lots of different algos in a single session - same with referring to the manual - setting up favourites on the sd card really helps in this regard as well - you might have to read a bit of the manual - but you'd do that if you got a new module anyway, wouldn't you?

tbh I probably only use 4 or 5 of the algos and at least one of them I should replace with a dedicated module

kinks is always a good addition for modulation imo

other than that I would want a decent mixer - preferably something that has both mono (with panning) and stereo inputs - so maybe split between 2 mixers - probably I'd go happy nerding panmixjr and stereo mixer

I'd also probably look at adding another filter or 2 - at least one of which I would want to be able to produce sine waves and accept v/oct and track a couple of octaves accurately

you really can never have too many vcas - watch the mylarmelodies video on youtube called "why you can never have too many vcas"
6u/104 is still a small modular!!! it won't fit in your handbag - but it is portable etc etc
always allow space to expand - you might not think you will want to expand from this now but you probably will - if your case is full that means buying another case - a bigger case to start with will work out cheaper overall
why filters: so you can stick a filter between morphagene and monsoon for example
why kinks: modify modulation - stop it being boring - the current rack is basically one patch - kinks will add a lot to it
why fx aid: so you have choices about how to route stuff - add layers etc etc
as for a modulation source - pams is great (i believe) but not so hands on - personally I like maths - its sort of a microcosm of modular - see the "maths illustrated manual" online to see why

personally I'm not that big a fan of ochd - no control really

modulation is quite personal though - it's a journey not an end - some things you have to work out yourself

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 11:51

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

Good question...
I added a Erica Synth Links so that I can use an external mixer, too.

I would try without this first - you may or may not need it or passive attenuators to do this

I would drop the tritone and compressor

Why?
I think I will need the sidechain of the compressor and I am also looking for a way to saturate signals.

VCAs - you could just use vcas to do both of these roles - but you may want to swap to different vcas then - for example one that actually amplifies rather than attenuates - veils and intellijel quad definitely do this - side chaining can be done very easily with vcas - mix an envelope with an inverted copy of the signal you want to use to sidechain and send that to the vca

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

Yeah I almost thought so :)

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

Thanks for the hint!

spread the vcas about

What do you mean ? You mean I should also spread them like the drum modules?

vcas are useful throughout the system for modulation as well audio - so maybe 1 top left, 1 bottom right for example

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

Thanks again! Did not stumble upon this module yet.

Here is the updated rack.
As stated in the first post, the system is a first idea for the future and I wanted to get a feeling for a balanced system.
So does this look good now?

-- le_tmp

it's looking better - not sure of the purpose of the 2hp TM - you probably need to add a quantizer to get it to do what you want - provide another v/oct channel - if this is the case you may be better off with marbles instead of bloom

I would stop stressing about it and just start with a minimum viable synth as outlined above - the plan will always change no matter what once you start patching

this is how I use them too - in between things

I see a lot of newb cases with them jammed in next to each other though

often I find the sam issue with 4 hp modules too - need space around them Disting is a good exaample of this

if you are currently using vcas as attenuators I see nothing wrong with adding a trim module to free up vcas - in fact probably what I would do - unless there is anything else you feel is missing - or just leave it for now - you don't have to have every case full to the brim!!

it's a little better

throws up questions though:

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

I would drop the tritone and compressor

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

spread the vcas about

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

no probs

there's a lot to be said for literally just getting - a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to listen and a way to play and slowly organically growing from there

for a way to listen get a quad cascading vca - it'll be mono, but it'll do the job perfectly well - veils or intellijel work best imo - and you will always benefit from it

if you need to use headphones then get a tile

yes all the tiles are either intellijel or shakmat (who do both - check when ordering i guess)

there are lots of theories on how to organise modules

clumps of functionality, clumped voices, voices left to right etc etc - you have to work it out for yourself - try a few different strategies and find the one that works best for you

but generally hands on control at the front tends to work best - joysticks, touchpads etc, sequencers - it really depends on the sequencer - and where the jack sockets are!

I think I'd just wait and see - keep patching and when you find yourself reaching for something that isn't there... or think of a patch and you are missing something - a sequential switch for example - then look for that - or just spend some time on modulargrid looking through different functions - maybe set the manufacturer to doepfer and read the descriptions and imagine how you would use this module - if you can see it fitting in with the modules you already have then - if something interests you look for similar modules by other manufacturers - watch videos - work out if the potentially more expensive one is that much better than the doepfer - maybe with doepfer you need 2 modules to do what the other module does, but that makes it much more versatile

I'd also spend some time working through manufacturers (this is what I did) - order the modules by price and read the description if anything looks good... then hit you tube

Nowadays I generally just know what I need - vaguely look at new modules as they are released and go - meh...

For utility modules, I'm really happy with my Shades which is a mixer, attenuverter, offsetter and my Kinks which combines an inverter/rectifier, a min/max and a noise/S&H.

If you take a look at most prebuilt systems by modular brands, they usually have those function included.
-- Martebar

shades and kinks are excellent modules (I have a kinks and 3 shades in my racks)

2hp VCA, Avert, and Trim. I never see 2hp mentioned much beyond their Pluck module, but for space saving I really like their utilities.
-- baltergeist

they were all the rage when they first came out - until people realised that they are a pain in the ass to use because they are too small and fiddly - I have 2 trims (and a couple of others TM and tune, that I don't really use any more - maybe in the future for a small portable rack - or as additional sequencing) - one each side of clouds and they are great for that - set and forget - but playability wise big knobs rule!! which means bigger modules (the same can also be said about the erica pico modules - they are kind of worse though as they are an odd size, which is annoying)

My top utilities - Kinks, matrix mixer, stages, maths, shades, doepfer sequential switch

so what were you trying to do and did it work as you expected?

I see 2 outputs from the quad envelope to the quad vca that seem superfluous - the red and orange cables going into in 3 and 4 of the vca - there's no point listening to envelopes

I don't think Lugia is necessarily suggesting to buy a bigger case!! although I would strongly suggest that 104hp is a much more sensible starter case - and is still very portable, unless you are a small child!!

the idea is to create a much bigger rack on modulargrid so that you can add all the support modules that you actually need for the shiny black expensive modules that you have thrown in you rack and work out each voice so that you can work out how to have fewer voices in the same size rack you have here, but with the support modules that are needed to effectively play it and to be able to patch and repatch in multiple configurations - there is no point buying a modular that can only really be patched effectively 1 way

in doing this you will get a better understanding of what you need in the rack and not just what you want because it looks cool

make copious notes - how you would patch the synth etc etc taking into account things like how you will mix, why are there stereo outputs on the erica dsp, but nothing else is stereo (except the fx aid - I'd go for the XL - more modulation inputs - and probably 2 of these over the erica dsp) - how do you take a mono voice and send it to stereo (panning mixer?) the erica dsp takes the same mono input and copies it both left and right and then processes it - you have no control over this!

I hate odd sized modules - says he thinking very hard about getting an erica seq (it's the cheapest smallest sequencer with memory - i wish it was 4hp and not 3 though!!!)

it will lead to hard decisions - almost definitely remove voices or get a bigger case - or use a smaller sequencer - the nerdseq is overkill in this size case

once you have made the hard decision and implemented it in a modulargrid rack - come back here for a second round of is this actually a workable synth

small cases are notoriously difficult to set up - especially for novices

they are almost always compromises - functionality/playability

you may be better off with a doepfer system - the small one in a 6u/84hp case perhaps or just get a mantis (by far the best value/powered case) - yeah the go is cheaper - but it is a blindly built clone of the Mantis power supply in a bigger case - so underpowered for real world applications!!! the small case that you had printed will come in useful as an over spill case or portable case (btw I don't think the line input module will work - you need the case inputs to link it to - which you probably haven't got) I'd also double check that the 1u row is intellijel and not pulp logic design (do the rails have lips? if so it's intellijel) before you buy any 1u tiles

LxD is smaller than either optimix or modemix - dplpg is even smaller!

Maths is maths - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - see illustrated manual (google)

as almost always I would want more utility modules - in this case more mixers (for sub mixing audio and for mixing modulation), and more modulation before another vco (which won't fit in this case - as you haven't enough room for support modules)

a second VCO is a good idea - but only in a bigger case - in this size case 1 vco makes more sense - you already have a second voice in rings

if you like the look of the Two59 be aware it is primarily designed to work as part of a pair with a wavefolder between them to form a complex oscillator - it will work standalone (afaik) - but to get it to be like a buchla 259 you need to add the extra modules

for live coding integration I would be tempted to go with a dc coupled audio interface (RME/Expert Sleepers) and not mess around with converting to midi then sending it to the modular and converting the midi back to cv - this will take more time than -> sending cv as audio and having it immediately available as cv

another alternative would be a cv.ocd which is an external midi ->cv converter (but quite small and inexpensive)

Many thanks Lugia! Appreciate the help as my new case arrives this week and I want to build it right. Put the two VCOs and filters up top row and bottom row the mixer, quad VCA and quad envelope (Intellijel Quadrax) and leave space in left for more sound sources.

one or 2 maybe - remember they need supporting modules too!!

Do VCAs count as sound sources or control sources?
-- sacguy71

VCAs are neither sound sources or control sources they are sound and control processors/modifiers

good you got the sequencer working

if you are having issues patching it - possibly go to the Patches section and create a patch identical to what you are doing and paste it here with an explanation of exactly what you are trying to do!

Thank you JimHowell1970,

NP

For the quick reply. Question: how would I then patch VCOs and LFOs to the envelopes and sequencer to playback patterns if I patch the gates from the Varigate 4+ and envelopes to the 4 CV on my Intellijel Quad VCA? Would I route each VCO and LFO to the 4 inputs of the Intellijel Quad VCA and route the audio outs from the quad vca to a mixer or studio monitors?

-- sacguy71

VCO outputs to audio inputs on VCA

the intellijel quad vca is cascading - so has a mixer built in - send that where ever you want or patch each channel to a mixer -> monitors

use the LFOs to modulate the VCOs

Hi Agarthha!

you really need to spend some more time researching - and think bigger (case), but start smaller (fewer modules)

you probably don't need ears (at least for inputting from digitone) - both morphagene and clouds are stereo anyway - both also work at both line and modular levels - you might want the envelope following or contact mic functionality though

whilst ochd is a great module - I would expect something like a maths to be more suitable - it is more hands on and more versatile - you'll probably want more modulation that is controllable - there is very little control over ochd and it only offers triangle waves shapes ) that's not to say don't get ochd - but I would get maths before ochd - see the illustrated manual (google) and marvel at it's analog patch-programmable computerness!!

you may be better off with chaos rather than random - triple sloths for example instead of wogglebug - random is random - chaos is a bit more centered

I would also add a kinks and a matrix mixer to help create more interesting modulation and some filters and other effects - fx aid xl, for instance

you will almost definitely want vcas for both modulation and audio - get a quad cascading one - veils or intellijel - they can also double as inputs if you need them to - as both of those VCAs are actually amplifiers! veils also has decent saturation - idk about intellijel

you'll also want some basic envelopes for those gates - to feed the vcas - if you want more keyboard like pressing get ADSRs, other wise ADs or even Ds are generally fine for most things

I would advise strongly against starting with such a small case - 104hp/6u is a more sensible starting point ) this will leave you space to expand - you will need it - Mantis is an excellent inexpensive choice with good power - and it is still tabletop/portable

in a case this size I would really only want to try to get a single voice in, more than that and you can easily end up with significant issues that once that case is full are only solvable by either buying another case and adding more modules or removing modules and replacing them

it's significantly easier to start with a bigger case - work out what you need to support what you want and then if you want a small portable case - either additionally or as a "beauty" case for travel - you have an idea of what you will be able to fit in it and still have a working synth that you enjoy playing with

I would look at a mantis - great case for the money and still portable - unless you are a small child

if you are worried about spending too much too quickly on modules get some blind panels to cover most of the rack - they are not expensive - 40€ covers over half a mantis - and set yourself a budget - stick cash in a jar or something similar!

with the palette cases you are paying a lot for some buffered mults, 1/2 a midi interface and 1/2 an output module (maybe 1/2 an input module too) and the 1u row (which in terms of hardware costs the same as the 3u row)

personally I do not have any 1u and do not intend to - I would rather build or buy regular 3u rows - for example a mantis cost about 1/2 the price of a 7u/104 case - by the time it's full and there is need for what would be the 1u row - you could buy a second mantis (with the savings from buying one in the first place) and buy equivalent 3u modules instead of 1u tiles - and probably only take up 20hp or so - leaving 180hp free for other modules

@JimHowell1970, true passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those 1v/oct cases.
No - but I think it's just a mistake :-) passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those NONE 1v/oct cases

I have a few Noise Engineering modules on the way and since these are sensitive to modulation, would passive mults be enough to tame these for modulation purposes say if I feed an LFO into them? I did take your advice from earlier and order a Kinks and Links as well as larger hex VCA for the second case. Now I need the sequential switch, clock, and logic modules. I figure with the four VCOs and 12 VCAs that should cover that area for now in both cases. I will get these additional tools on Black Friday sale.
-- sacguy71

mults will not tame anything!!!
they make copies - that's all

attenuators are what you are looking for for taming modulation - passive ones work fine - I use 2hp trim modules

set varigate to 4 gates
patch out of each channel of varigate to an envelope
patch each of the envelopes to cv in on one of the channels of a quad vca
send 4 channels of audio to a quad vca
listen
adjust to taste

I disagree about buffered 4 channel mults being the way to go:

1 you only need buffered mults for v/oct

2 passives are significantly cheaper and you can spread them out better around the rack - and if you don't have space for them you can use headphone splitters etc just as well (or an actual passive mult)

vcas are an essential part of modular synthesis - @sacguy71 - you are just starting to learn why you can never have enough vcas!!!!

I would consider pulling back a bit on some of the modules

Clouds for example could be replaced with an FX Aid (XL) for example

You could then get an og Rings - which is nicer to play with and Emilie gets some money for designing it (win/win)

Same with the sequencer - do you really need 4 channels of v/oct - get a simpler sequencer and tune oscillators differently (buffered) mult (already in the case) the same v/oct to each, perhaps

you'll also probably get away without a 2nd filter

maybe add a small 2hp utility mixer and a basic LFO

not sure how deep the case is - check depths!!!

have you already bought this? or is this just a plan

what are you aiming to do?

why the tiny modules? vca, lfo, seq, dsp? if not already bought - I would go bigger for all of these except maybe the seq - because they are not ergonomic - quad cascading vca (veils or intellijel), any bigger LFO, FX Aid (XL?)

one reason for going to the FXAid is that it is stereo in whilst the eric dsp is mono in

kinks would be a good addition for making more interesting modulation

OK that's a bit more like it

@toinouvltn the Maths does a crap-ton of things you don't think you'll need but you'll be patching one day and I think "I wonder if I could do this" and Maths will be sitting right there ready for you. To top it off, I prefer its envelopes to the Zadar a good bit, very responsive to wiggling, which is one of the joys of modular, and with a nice expressive range. I'd say this second case looks pretty good!
-- troux

Maths is an excellent module I would probably buy it before any of the others if I had the choice - read through the illustrated manual - the others are modules, Maths is a patch programmable analog computer

let's see what we can take out to get a bit of space for more important modules

do you really need 2 stereo inputs?

how are you mixing? audio submixes/cv/final audio - I see a STmix and a triple vca - and the middle section of maths - not a huge amount - maybe enough; may not! try patching in your head! or on paper - count outputs - count inputs - have you got enough ways to combine different things?

do you need a buffered mult? only really needed for v/oct - which you don't really need - use stackcables or headphone splitters

the mute module? how are you planning on using it? do you need 4 channels? better to use on gates than on audio

and the offset module from NE - I would rather have a matrix mixer - AI Synthesis or Rebel Technology - you can always do offsets with maths

EDITED Sep 8th 2020, 18:42

Buy a mantis

it's about the same price as the rackbrute - but doesn't have the power module and is 104hp

that way everything you have here + maths + a matrix mixer + kinks + a quad cascading vca will fit in case number 1

not a lot of utilities in the rack - these are usually the key to patching differently imo

specifically for improving modulation - which is probably where you are struggling

mutable kinks, matrix mixer (get a 4x4 if possible), another modulation source, some passive mults/attenuators, a sequential switch, some basic mixers would all open up patching more for you

it's also very easy to plug the same output of sequencer into the same module - swap these around
also try tuning oscillators to different notes/octaves (within same scale)

use clouds as an oscillator instead of an effect - put something in the buffer!

EDITED Sep 7th 2020, 14:59

well there are no wrong paths, as such, just more expensive ones and a few dead ends!!
good luck and have fun!!

well bear in mind that utility modules like these are generally quite inexpensive - stick as much as possible to brands like doepfer for a matrix mixer, a sequential switch, some passive attenuators and an mi kinks - probably not much more than the oscillator cost you and much much more useful! an oscillator is an oscillator - cheap utility modules are possibilities

haha - eurocrack indeed!!!

What support essential modules are you referring to besides Maths? I like the looks and function generator from Frap Tools called Sapel that looks cool to add at a later point. I already have a mini maths version in my 0-coast so want different approach to Buchla Serge function and noise generator. Intellijel Quadrax with the expander would get me into Buchla territory with two modules but like Frap Tool modules is fairly large in terms of HP footprint.

these are all really modulation sources - Maths I class as a complex modulator - I mean the bits that fit in between

yes the headphone splitters (intellijel hub, plankton etc etc etc) are a good start and are fine for passive mults - although they can get a bit annoying - i have a few of these, but in practice use either 2hp mults or stackcables

a few very useful techniques for expanding and creating interesting modulation:

1 mult the outputs from 4 modulation outputs - 1 copy to a modulation intput, 1 to a 4x4 matrix mixer - matrix mixer outs to different modulation inputs - instead of 4 you have 8 related modulation outputs! alternately use 3 modulation sources and send the 4th output back into the 4th input (feedback)

2 take a modulation output mult it a modulation input and the kinks top section (rectifier) - mult all outputs of the top section of kinks - 1 copy of each output to a modulation input - 2 of them patch to the middle section (logic) - patch outputs to modulation inputs - patch the last multed output from the top section to the bottom section (sample and hold) - add a trigger - patch the output to another modulation input - instead of 1 you have 7 related modulation outputs

3 attenuverters - patch a modulation source into an attenuator - pathc output into modulation input - attenuate and polarise the modulation as required

4 sequential switch pt 1 - patch a modulation source into the input - patch outputs to modulation sources - input trigger to switch - a single modulation source -> 4 modulation inputs

5 sequential switch pt 2 - patch 4 multed modulation sources to the inputs - patch output to a single modulation source - input trigger to switch - 4 modulation sources -> 1 modulation input

etc etc etc etc
the more of these little tricks you can do and the more you combine them - the more interesting the modulation you will be able to get out of a relatively simple and small set of modulation sources

I did have a major break through this week in learning how to control the modular from Elektron gear and also how to record and play the modular from Ableton Live DAW. Having this ability is quite powerful! If you spend a lot of time and cash on modular, it is wise to be able to sample and record your findings and use for later purpose in music production. The Doepfer A190-4 USB/MIDI to CV module was a pain to figure out but have it as part of my toolbox. For west coast touch controller, my new Make Noise 0-CTRL is tons of fun and super cool. I also use it with the 0-coast that got me started on modular a couple of years ago. I figure with COVID-19 lockdowns and no ability to travel to Europe for a vacation, I spent the money on new music tools and my studio.

-- sacguy71

I'm on the fence regarding these all-in-one packages - they are great especially imo the doepfer ones, but, there's always something annoying in them! anyway great you managed to get it working!

Open to masters like you and Lugia and others for feedback on where to go for a west coast experimental techno vibe.
-- sacguy71

low pass gates, sequencers (as opposed to 'keyboards' - unless touch sensitive control panels) and wavefolders/shapers are the 2 key ingredients of west-coast style synthesis imo

Hi Sacguy71,

Ha, ha, your enthusiasm is very enjoyable :-) But look for yourself at your above new rack... it's full already?! If you still can change the order then go for the wider (168 HP) rack or at least one more row, otherwise next month you are buying yet another case :-)

so you can add the support modules you desperately need in order to make a more playable rack!

Well my first advice you received already, take it easy... the above isn't really taking it easy, does it? ;-)

Second advice is, don't go for too many modules in one go and perhaps try to avoid here and there the "too sexy looking" modules? I am sure they are a lot of fun but some of them are pretty large in HP size and you got limited space; so check if those are really worth it from all point of views (price, space, functionality, beyond the sexy look, is it really worth it, etcetera). So, at the very least take it easy, don't order everything in one go, get a few modules first and then see if the rest of the plan still fits or if you like to update your above rack? But other than that, please enjoy!

buy the modules you NEED not the ones you want - there's a difference - stop buying for a while - start patching - what do you reach for - another voice, or something to extend your modulation? for example

You have chosen quite a few modules I don't have experience with or knowing them. So I can't give you much particular advice on those modules chosen. I have the Maths too, it's a nice module but for the money and the HP size, I sometimes wonder if the price-performance factor is high enough? I guess the Disting Ex is nice if you want to have a lot of functionality in one module. You can use that module then to use as a kind of "backup module". In case you are missing any kind of functionality, most likely the Disting can help you out till you got the module for that functionality that you require.
-- GarfieldModular

Maths is brilliant, but taken on face value I agree to some extent - however, it is way more than the sum of it's parts - if you are in doubt, then work your way through the illustrated manual a few times

But I would always recommend Maths and the same again in separate modules - once you get past about 2-3 voices - otherwise you need a 2nd maths!!!

I have no idea about which modules to use for screaming techno - from the look of the rack - usual noob issues - too many big shiny modules - not enough support modules - but that could just mean too small a case!!!

as for what you called your second dilemma - I would not be so hard on yourself - use the tools as needed - analog/digital - really who cares??? definitely not anyone in any audience you might have!

"If you construct this build, my bet is that you won't feel a pressing need for anything new for a hot minute. At least. You'll be finding new tricks for YEARS. Or so I hope..."

That moment when we learned @Lugia is actually an optimist at heart 🤣🤣🤣
-- troux

hahahahahaha

but what's a hot minute? may literally be a minute

I still think it's way too light on utilities

I'd at least consider replacing both the tiptop modules with smaller modules -

or replace batumi and/or zadar (and expanders) with more utitlities - a matrix mixer for example for mixing your other modulation sources together

or as I suggested earlier - an extra row - but maybe that's the future

whatever an mk2 is? some sort of drum machine?

you are mixing out of the box ?

if you do not own the cwejman already you do realise that they are near unobtanium/really fucking expensive, don't you?

saying that and assuming you are doing final mixing externally -

modulation sources!!!!! you have none other than the hermod -

what do you think your quad clock distributer is distributing to - do they really need envelopes?? in a lot of cases probably yes

utilities - plumbing - you have a lot of shiny expensive (see note about cwejman, above) modules, but there is nothing to connect them - everything and anything from matrix mixers to sequential switches research research research - which might be as little as reading a dozen other, older noob threads

it's easy as a noob to overlook these types of modules (I've even seen people write that they don't want to 'waste' money on a mixer ffs) because they are not immediately obvious in the construction of fixed architecture synths or softsynths

however, this is one of the major areas where modular synthesis has advantages over those 2, it exposes the plumbing

imagine your synth is like an apartment block - what happens without plumbing? and that's what a modular synth without utilities is

saying that go slowly grow organically

start with 1 sound source, 1 modulation source, 1 sound modifier, a way to play (hermod), and a way to listen (the L1 vca) and maybe a disting (fills holes 1 @ a time, and great for learning) and learn to patch what you have once you are very familiar buy another module and repeat - sooner or later you will reach for something you never even thought of - and then buy that module

That's a good start

I would save this dream rack and forget about it for a while!!

When you actually fill your rack you can compare and see how close you were!

Then save for an entire year and buy a larger case and new build.
-- sacguy71

or maybe better - start saving, buy a new case, grow organically as and when you can

congratulations!!!

always buy more cables/mixer channels/vcas than you think you need!! don't buy 2 cables buy 4 - you then you have them if you need them!