hey, just entering into the modular world with a vague understanding of everything thats going on...

these are what i've got so far (apart from the 1u and ansible)

  • my plan is to hook up crow to ansible for additional outputs via i2c and then use all these to trigger stuff from the disting ex via patching, like in sample playback mode or the poly wavetable algorithm for example - and with aditional lfo's from ochd for modulation and/or as a clock source for crow (this would be my first use case)

my second use case, is to use ansible on its own with a usb-midi keyboard plugged in to trigger the disting ex for a more simplified plug and go situation (rather than writing scripts for crow)

i also plan to add the quadratt 1u utility module to act as a uni or bipolar switch for any addition lfo modulation from ochd if needed (or other stuff i might add)

so first question is can ansible still be plugged into crow via i2c if i want to use it in my second use case?

second question would be what else would people advise i get in terms of utility 1u stuff, like mixer stuff?

im also quite partial to the idea of additional ins and outs to record audio in and send stuff out to pedals

any ideas or inspiration from what i can do with this extremely minimal set up thats not too intensive for a noob (i am also aware the crow and disting have a very steep learning curve and am happy to take time getting used to these before exploring other modules)

hope you guys can help!

Thank you guys for the feedback, i really appreciate it. I use Abelton 10 suite and would like to be able to send the modules to different channels, instead of recording into 1 channel for all the audio, that's why i chose the ES9. The only modules i am certain on atm is Morphagene, SWN, Harmonaig, Tapo and FX aid. So i should build around those and then find a case.

Thread: NiftyCASE

"Dieter" = Dieter Doepfer, the grandpa of this Eurorack thing.

The B. 305 has no VCAs at all. It looks fairly feature-packed, but that's because Uli mashed two other 100M modules together to come up with it, then discontinued those two before the 100M stuff came out. However, it's worth noting that all of those gray things of his are copies of the Roland 100M modules, with a different form factor and retooled for Eurorack, with some results turning out better than others. As far as a decent output mixer goes, there's FAR better stuff out there...and definitely more capable stuff, too.

As for the cab size...good, you recognized the problem right off! This 100% needs more space. Have a look at these: https://reverb.com/brand/case-from-lake I've heard several people mentioning that the craftsmanship on these are spot-on, plus if you need to "adjust" a case for more size, amperage, ATA hardware, etc, they can do that. And the prices are KILLER. Also, the amazing thing about Case From Lake is that you can get a portable cab with INSANE amperage figures if that's what you need, as they definitely do that and many, many other optional things.

Yeah, this needs reworking. 100% agreement with Jim's take on this, plus there's some odd deficiencies here...most notably, it seems like filters got the short end of the stick, which is a shame because the SWN plays really nicely with a good, character-filled (and stereo) VCF.

Lots of utilities missing, also...plus, when you start looking at the module architectures that are prevalent here, this isn't all that well suited for the drone aspects or textural aspects. Sequencing, yeah, it's got that...but again, the ability to actually generate/sequence melodic parts isn't well implemented, because all of the timing/sequencing modules are robbing space from other functions.

Also, if you really want these large modules, you're simply going to have to go to a bigger case in order to have those AND all of the missing bits and pieces. For that matter, even if you went with smaller modules, you'd still benefit from a larger case. This is definitely where the adage about using "...a bigger case than you think you'll need, because you'll need it bigger in the end anyway" fits aptly.

Hmm...well, one thing that immediately comes to mind is that there's too many audio paths in there. I can see what you're trying to do here, and the problem is that the case(s) itself is just outgrown. There needs to be more VCAs, submixing, utilities, and so on...the "usual suspects", in other words...but the space is simply NOT there.

One possible fix, but one that would involve the addition of a small skiff, would be to pull the Metropolix and M303 out of this build altogether and then rehouse them in a small standalone cab...a 4ms 60hp powered pod would make a good fit there, plus you'd have an extra 10 hp for a delay. Those three modules together would make for a hellacious standalone 303 "variant", especially with a built-in delay line. But the other point is that, by pulling the M303 and Metropolix, you'd then regain 60 hp in the main cab, which is plenty of space for those missing bits and pieces. Thoughts?

Hi Zappacat,

Well indeed as a temporary solution this might just work, as far as I can see from a quick look at the 305 from Behringer it should have some basic VCA functionality as well.

The main concern I have with this module is that it is 24 HP wide... in such a small rack as yours, are you sure you want to spend so much HP for a temporarily solution?

If a dual VCA would be temporarily sufficient enough for you, why you don't consider the Doepfer - A-130-2, that's a dual VCA (lin or exp) and is only 4 HP wide instead of 24 HP ! And it's cheaper than the Behringer but of course only two channels instead of 4 channels for the large 305.

Or the Doepfer A-138n is a basic 4 channel mixer, much cheaper and also 4 HP only.

Up to you of course, good luck with the decision :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

P.S.: Providing a link to your rack, as you did here is perfectly fine, one can click on it and then the current rack view will be visible. The good point of doing it like this is that a reviewer can then easily see the modules you have in your rack. With a picture that's not possible.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads

Hi Quantum_Eraser,

Ooohhhh niiiiccceeee :-) Nice long drone-ambient... eh... film music? :-) Well, with or without film, this is nice relaxing yet interesting to listen at. It could go on for an hour and I still would love it!

Regarding the video, you might want to consider to clean the video head, pretty much ticks and stuff. Check with Musima (see the other just released track in this "You" section of the forum), they got very clean video heads, you might want to check with them ;-)

Ha, ha, just joking! Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads

Hi Luis,

This is a great piece of music, very intriguing. Quite daring, yet amazing and it is full of surprising sounds and effects. The voice, done by Sarah is really fantastic, so controlled!

Great team work and a beautiful video. Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads

If you have a 4ms pod with the built-in power supply you just need a power brick.

LoFi Piano Loop with Dictaphone, Morphagene and Desmodus Versio

Hope you like it.

Thread: NiftyCASE

Thank you very much for responding to this post with GREAT information. I really appreciate it.

Modulation - I got the Doepfer A-147-2 VCDLFO to boost my modulation sources. I know it's not the most exotic or full featured LFO out there BUT please keep in mind I'm new to modular(not to synthesizers in general) and I need something basic to start with so I can learn and understand it. I think the CV control capabilities of it will help me learn this facet of modular. I have to say now that I've gotten it in the rack I'm very impressed with the build AND feel quality of it. The POTS on it are FAR superior to anything else I've gotten so far. It was impressive enough that I purchased a Doepfer A-135-2 Quad VCA/VC Mixer without hesitation to fill my mixing void. I think I can feed the output of the Doepfer Quad VCA back into the noise channel on the Grandmother mixer and monitor everything via the Grandmother headphone VCA out. There are a tremendous amount of modulation sources on the Hydrasynth that I aim to utilize once I learn how. In the mean time I think the A-147-2 VCDLFO will suffice.

Utilities - I'm not sure exactly what this means.

Case size and small modules - Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm 55 now and prefer bigger everything so I can see it BUT you have to start somewhere. It's funny, right after I got my case and the first module I installed the module and stumbled into this modular grid rack building thing. After spending 20 minutes or so setting up my rack I ALREADY decided my rack wasn't big enough and I only had ONE module in the case/rack !!! Go figure.

ADSR vs Envelope Generator - I honestly don't know which I need. I'm a keyboard player and for the most part this rack is going to be mated with Moog grandmother. I'll be able to use the Grandmother internal sequencer and ARP to trigger the rack. Right now I'm trying to decide if I should buy Doepfer A-140-2 Dual Mini ADSR OR Mutable instruments Peaks/Stages/Veils/Tides. Youtube videos on ALL of them BUT they have them hooked up to 10 other devices that I don't have. The more I read about the Mutable instruments stuff the more I get confused. At least I think I know what the Doepfer actually does. If anyone has advice on this I'm ALL EARS.

B-company - Yes, I've had nothing but bad experiences with their products in the past and not really impressed with their lack for respect for other peoples designs. With respect to Behringer 305 I find it strange that there's almost NO information or reviews about it. I think I saw 1 youtube video where someone actually had one, maybe not. No user reviews anywhere I could find. Nothing in the forums of anyone saying it sucks or it's great. BTW, who is Dieter ?

Anyway, this is a new adventure for me. I had to get away from the computer based DAW. I've spent 30+ years of my professional life staring at computer screens and the virtual instrument stuff wasn't working for me any more. I'll still be using a DAW to patch everything together BUT this is a new approach for me. Thanks for the help and best wishes.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

I would cut back to a minimum viable synth and build up naturally from there, especially if you have already somehow decided on the case - which would be a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to play and a way to listen - maybe add a few utilities - learn how to use those and then work out what you are missing and expand from there

an alternative to that, that I also recommend is to work out what modules you want, the modules you need to support those modules and then add 30% on top for expansion and then find a case to fit - not find the case and then fit the modules in

Whilst your current rack kind of ticks all the boxes it doesn't really do it in a particularly good way

For this size case I think you have too many sound sources and large modules which leaves not enough space to support them - especially as the SWN is quite large, not too mention morphagene, harmonaig and the es9

you also have too much in the way of Pam's, euclidean circles and bloom - Pams can do all of these things - try that first and if youo particularly want a dedicated module for one of those tasks then get one but plan on possibly not wanting Pams at the same time then

plus do you really need both midi and the es9? if you are using a DAW then I would just use the es9 - but you might have a specific use case for the midi - the keystep pro will work with cv won't it?

Hey there.

I'm new to Modular Synthesis, and I ordered a MakeNoise Morphagene with a Mutable Instruments Pod34x power case and being new I saw "Powered case" and I did not know I had to buy a power source.

I built the same system in Modulargrid and it tells me I need 165ma +12V, 20 -12V and 0 5V which, well I have since my power source is 1A, but what I haven't been able to understand is how much voltage I need to plug into my power case to begin with? the page for the case says +12V up to 1.4A, and I THOUGHT it meant I need a 12V DC source, but I am not sure since the +12V seems to denote something entirely different and my box says 15-20V DC...

I am confused and wondering if the 12V adaptor I have will fry my module? I have ordered a 15V DC adaptor , but in general, what are the dangers of plugging lower voltages?

thank you

Top Row is 53mm with bus board. Bottom row is 75mm without bus board

That's not going to work with a uZeus even with the bigger power supply - max -ve rail is 500mA - which means you want to keep below 400mA (preferably less) - otherwise expect power problems

I'd try to change to a power supply that has at least 750mA available on the -ve rail & preferably one without the rack wart

I'd recommend the tiptop studio bus - but you'll need 2 busboards otherwise you probably won't have enough power on the +12v - and you still get a rack wart

I like the befaco excalibus - you'd need 2 though, but no rack wart! - so 4hp more to play with! just a hole in the case to take the power cable(s)

otherwise if it were me I'd probably swap the dipole for a blades - or something smaller like a wmd overseer and the pico dsp for a fx aid (get the xl if you can - better ergonomics and more modulation inputs)

-- JimHowell1970

Ooof, well since I already ordered the uZeus i'll start with it and then get something more powerful after passing 400mA on the negative. Thanks for this info especially.
I'll also definitely check out blades, overseer and fx aid as replacements for the other modules. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: I haven't gotten into making solid racks so the flying bus boards were tempting with the uZeus. Question: Do i need anything special or just make screw holes, screw in the bus boards and connect them to a power supply?

ModularGrid Rack

So what I am after, is ambient drones, textures and evolving melodic sequences.
What would you guys remove/add to this? as I am new too eurorack, any feedback is welcome.
I allready have Arturia keystep pro, Røde NT1 mic, Steinberg ur28M.

Thread: NiftyCASE

to me the things that you need primarily to use with the synths you do have are modulation, utilities and some sound processing

2 voices in a case this size is too many in my opinion unless you are into tiny modules etc because you will not have the room to adequately support 2 voices properly and the above in a single 3u/84hp case - and small modules are often not great to play with - especially if bunched together

do you really need an ADSR or do you need an envelope generator? - most people don't actually use ADSRs that much - AD is much more common - ADSR really only if you play it with a keyboard

I'd rather buy doepfer than the b-company any day - relatively cheap and generally simple building blocks, but solid builds and knowledgable staff - Dieter may even answer himself

Thread: Disting mk4

I mostly use it as a random utility module. Most commonly as a "Precision" adder. Also frequent the Quantizer, Rectifier, Logic, Comparator, Compressor, Min/Max, Pitch Reference/Tuning. I'd like to dive into the shift registers next to see how they perform as the closest I have to one is Pachinko (Marbles). Generally though, I'm patching and repatching and repatching in the same session, layering different parts in the BitBox. So I'm more comfortable now with jumping around different algos on the Disting in essentially the same session. It really isn't that bad, especially if you KNOW what you want it to do right now, even less bad so if you do as suggested above and save your favorites.

First 30 days with it, I just picked a different algo everyday I sat down and tested with it, unless there was some other module that I wanted to focus on learning/practicing/testing

I've never used the disting for fx, oscs, sample playback, trigger/pattern generation (until I get to shift registers) or filters. I'm sure they're fine though.

That's not going to work with a uZeus even with the bigger power supply - max -ve rail is 500mA - which means you want to keep below 400mA (preferably less) - otherwise expect power problems

I'd try to change to a power supply that has at least 750mA available on the -ve rail & preferably one without the rack wart

I'd recommend the tiptop studio bus - but you'll need 2 busboards otherwise you probably won't have enough power on the +12v - and you still get a rack wart

I like the befaco excalibus - you'd need 2 though, but no rack wart! - so 4hp more to play with! just a hole in the case to take the power cable(s)

otherwise if it were me I'd probably swap the dipole for a blades - or something smaller like a wmd overseer and the pico dsp for a fx aid (get the xl if you can - better ergonomics and more modulation inputs)

Sarah Maria Sun, voice
Neus Estarellas Calderón, piano
Feliu Ribera Riera, percussion
Santi Barguñó, sound engineer
Luis Codera Puzo, modular synths, samplers, composition

You might want to add more mixer channels, even with the Squid Sample just running the Mix out you are maxing out the STMIX which leaves you less options for patching.
I've recently bought a Doepfer A-138sv for sub-mixing percussion https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-138sv You could kick out the Befaco OUT and the 2x Mults to have room for it.

But don't listen to me if you don't want, these are also my limitations :)

I already have a Behringer Neutron and a Keystep, I've posted here some years back about planning to get some eurorack expansion but after some time these plans changed.
For starters I've ordered PNW, Squid, M8 a passive mult and the STmix + Out module. All this will go on a uZeus supply.
My final idea is a rhythm oriented setup based on samples where I can route individual sounds through different filters and stereo effects + Behringer as a synth voice and a Plaits to fill in as additional percussion/noise or even melody with Voltage Block driving it. I don't intend to dial in exact melodies so i think i'd be happy with the VB. Before i start getting more of these modules i'd like some expert opinion on whether i'm missing something out or if i can replace something with a more efficient module (in terms of space, cost, power consumption, number of functions)

Thread: NiftyCASE

I'm trying to complete this build. Initial plans were to get Intellijel Quad VCA and Mutable Instruments Veils but I can't buy either of them new anywhere in the US right now so I'm stuck(and kind of low on money) right now. Please keep in mind this RACKs primary purpose is to complement my Moog Grandmother Subharmonicon and Hydrasynth so I've made some omissions thinking I could use some features on those synths to fill in gaps. I still need a VCA/mixer and ADSR envelope. Considering a couple Doepfer modules for VCA/mixer duties Doepfer A-135-2 Quad VCA/VC Mixer AND Doepfer A-140-2 Dual Mini ADSR OR possibly even Behringer 305 IF it can function as a VCA for a while but there's no info or reviews out about the Behringer 305 at all. Is it complete crap or did they not sell any of them so there aren't even any reviews by people who bought them ??? Assuming it could solve my lack of VCA right now it would be nice to have a REAL headphone jack and EQ features. I still need ADSR envelope too.

Any help greatly appreciated

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

I need a temporary solution to lack of VCA and mixer until I can purchase what I really want. I spent too much on some other stuff AND the stuff I really want isn't available here NEW in the States right now. Can the Behringer 305 be used as a cheap short term solution in the following setup ? I have a Moog grandmother, Subharmonicon and Hydrasynth that I can patch in a few things that some of you may note are missing from a full modular setup. Does the Behringer 305 actually have VCA's built into it ?
Thanks in advance
You'll have to click on the picture of my Eurorack picture/link to see it now. For some reason it keeps showing and old picture/revision of it. The picture representation of it below isn't accurate. Is there a way to include pictures in a posting in these forums ?
ModularGrid Rack

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

What a PITA :) thanks for the help.
Any thoughts on the real rack?

Hi ModLifeCrisis,

I just uploaded the STO review report, available here:


Thank you very much for reading it and kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads

Is there any way to disable all marketplace notifications? I have accumulated a massive list and don't want to go through one by one, if I can avoid it.

Here's the fix: go back to your build's page, and hit "refresh", even if the rack looks right. Then go to the "Show" dropdown menu and select "Screenshot". You're likely to see the version above. If you do, hit "refresh" on your browser, and if the old layout persists, quit "Screenshot", refresh the layout page again, then re-select "Screenshot". Once these two images are the same, then go back to your post, delete the present link, save the edit, then edit it AGAIN with the "new" build page URL. Once you save that, then the proper screenshot will be linked to the Forum thread. But the important part is to make sure the screenshot matches the build page, as the Forum's images come from the screenshot and NOT the build itself.

Thanks for your input but I think you are seeing the old layout which was only 7u 104hp, not 10u. The more up2date layout doesn't have the dfam in it since that was only in there to fill up the space until I got the other modules. Im fairly new to modulargrid and don't know how to delete the old version but when I click on the rack it brings me to the correct one.

A couple of points...

First of all, that's a really expensive DFAM, and it wasn't when you put it in there. Let's look at the case itself...it costs $649 for 208 hp in 3U and 104 in 1U which, for the sake of this example, we'll say amounts to 35 hp if it were 3U. That gives 243 hp at $649, meaning that each hp = $2.67. $2.67 x 60 = $160.20, making the DFAM come in at $809.20. This is easy enough to fix: take the DFAM out of the expensive cab and put it back where it belongs. This then frees up 60 hp for modules that DON'T come with their own case and power...which is what you should be using the Eurorack cab for in the first place.

And secondly, watch your module sizes. There's several Erica modules in here, and while their Quad VCA2 makes sense in the space it occupies, using the same space for one single envelope generator is not very sensible at all. Try looking outside of one specific manufacturer, and you'll find far better EG options. But this problem can get rather pervasive pretty quickly, and this appears to be on that route.

For one thing, that DFAM is killing your ability to add more functionality. For example, all you have for modulation at present is that Erica EG and a Maths. Not quite enough, really. Or the Mimeophon would probably be better up with the audio path...but it won't fit there. And so on...

Thread: Disting mk4

+1 on "use the favourites" -- makes Disting much more manageable, especially because it saves the parameters, so once you've got it working you don't need to fish the manual out again...

Currently my favourite programs are :
* I1 : sample player (Z = sample select)
* J8 : Crossfade Loop Player

The organisation I suggest is to make a folder for each favourite with the samples needed for that favourite only (even it's just one!) because changing favourites is way easier than trying to find the sample you want using the Z knob.

I also like the very much Quantiser and Dual Quantiser modes.

Everyone says the delay is good, but I have never tried it. Maybe I should!

It's quite nice just to flick through the manual before you start patching and build the patch around some Disting program you don't know yet. Like -- what is does a Pulsar oscillator sound like anyway?

Makes sense...and the reason this won't work in analog is because that feedback loop is generating digital fullcode. Basically, all of that gain + feedback loop = massive digital overload, which is what that "noise" is. So it's a valid method, but only in an emulator such as VCV because you literally CANNOT make that happen in analog.

The top half is my very first 104hp skiff that I'm building now.
the bottom half will be another 104hp skiff that I want to build next year after I asses my needs with the first skiff.

I'm sure I can do better, I think I need more utilities but I honestly have no clue what I want to get because I have no clue what most utilities do. I need to do more research in that aspect.

Skiff 1 (Top): I went back to basics with this skiff. Mainly cause I keep straying further away from what I want to do with my rack, which was patch sounds that will compliment my music. I know 3 sound sources might be a bit much, but I wanted lots of options while patching traditional synth sounds, and experimental sounds including weird electronic sounding riffs and kick drums. I thought about adding a modulation source but then realized that Pam's NEW Workout could be used as an LFO so I changed my mind on that, plus I thought that adding some modulation sources later would be more effective than now, seeing as how I don't really know what I might be missing just yet. Ill play with it first and then decide...

...Which brings us to skiff 2 (bottom)

I tried to think carefully about what I might want in order to give my system some tasty flavor.
A couple more sound sources and some utilities I guess.
A Varigate 4+ sequencer for flexibility in my melodies, Stages for lots of different modulation, A micro Ornament and Crime, The Basimilus Iteritas Alter (because I don't want to miss out on it), the micro Grids for more percussion sequencing options, a Monsoon which is just a micro Clouds for some effects, a ripples filter (even though I already have a Polaris), the Maths (because I decided to change it to a Quadra in my first skiff to save room), and a vnlcursal 6 channel VCA for fun.

I dunno. I just chose things I wanted just to give myself an idea. It will change of course ;)

75% full ATM

@re-touch, this is interesting. Some brief replies:

-- IRL, a full rectifier should give the absolute value function you're speaking of (unless I'm misunderstanding)

-- do you use VCV rack? (https://vcvrack.com/Host) That would give you another (and deeper than Softube) software platform to play in and test the above hypothesis, though it is still software

-- while I'm still pretty new to hardware modular, I find my "more unique" filters REALLY surprise me if I go beyond "routine" settings. So the response per the settings you mention above MAY vary meaningfully depending on the filter unit.

That said, a more experienced modular user or electrical engineer could maybe give you a definitive answer. Maybe baseline unit noise, with feedback, gained into overdrive (with gain varying the spectrum or "color" or results) would produce similar results across filter types.



Thanks Garfield,

Yeah it is great to have one place for all my gear now. I am working on building some templates for self generative and techno/dance music. My next module will be WMD Performance mixer and more tools. I do like what I see from the Erica Synths Black Sequencer and Vector sequencer.

@AudioResearch, @Lugia, as recent posts in this thread have morphed into a somewhat different topic, I've continued the discussion in a new thread:

"modular generative / control schemes and DAW equivalents" at https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9906

There @AudioResearch I've given you a response based on my current best perspective, and also included by link the several related threads / comments from @Lugia

Thanks all!

Hi folks,

A prior thread I posted has evolved into a discussion of modular control schemes and DAW equivalents. I'm starting a new thread here to split the discussion so its easier to add / search etc.

This discussion builds off three recent threads, if interested see:
-- https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9673 which is a question about rack design which morphs into a discussion of generative issues, designs, techniques, etc.
-- https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9885 which is Lugia's deep dive on generative technique history and key concepts
-- https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9516 which includes a bunch of related info, especially Farkas's posted video on Generative, and Lugia's larger proposed rack build with comments

NOW to respond to @AudioResearch's question (from thread 9673): "What are some M4L devices you'd recommend??" to do generative-like control in Live.

My current response to this is:

-- I own Live 11 full version, recently installed, and just finished an audit of all included devices that might be good for layered / nested control schemes, approaching a generative approach in the DAW (Live). I have not cracked the code on this, but do feel there's some good progress, which I'll share.

-- I count well over 40 devices in the full version of Live that could be useful for this. They are in the folders Audio Effects, Max Audio Effects and Max Midi Effects. I find Live's MIDI effects not so useful. Of the 40+ devices I ID'd that do seem useful, these include a lot of "usual suspects" of LFOs, envelope generators, sequencers, etc. In general, these "map" in Live to 1 or more parameter to be controlled. Pretty simple on the face of it. BUT since Live allows for drawing in automation and modulation curves on a clip by clip basis, it's not clear to me what if any actual advantage control devices present vs. arbitrarily definable automation / modulation lanes.

-- IMO the more important question in Live is "what are the ROUTINGS / MAPPINGS that enable complex or hierarchical or generative control schemes?" THIS I think is the critical question, and the answers / techniques applicable in Live may be different than the best answers / techniques in Bitwig, Cubase or Logic, for example. I work most in Live, and am frustrated a bit by its less obviously flexible / powerful routing scheme (compared to Bitwig). BUT what I do think is one important component is to work with Instrument Racks and/or Effect Racks. Setting up a macro and pointing it to the "chain" control in a rack with more than one device chain allows for very interesting control / automation over active devices (e.g. allowing for easy or automated activation / deactivation).

-- in the earlier thread, @Lugia said "Live works admirably here, as long as it's the FULL version with Max for Live. That one addition unlocks a lot of the hidden power under Ableton's hood, and since you can define LOTS of possible operations/routings/etc via Max, it's sort of a unique situation. But it's VERY easy to set up all sorts of "sneaky" send/return signal paths with M4L objects. With that, I can set up lots of actions that are basically nonrepeating, yet which follow clear musical patterns as a work plays." Note that this is more a comment about routings and pathways than it is about specific devices. I do not have great ideas of how to do this in Live; my best current suggestion is "dig in, create some hierarchical control schemes in Live, and see what happens." In Bitwig I feel I have more success with this as its easier to send MIDI from anywhere to anywhere; still most of my work is in Live so I'm looking for good solutions there too.

SOOOO... let me invite anyone who's interested to jump in here with additional suggestions / questions / etc. I TOTALLY want to up my game on generative / hierarchical control schemes both in modular and in DAWS so I'm happy to listen to and trade ideas with anybody else who finds this interesting.

What I would LOVE to develop good command of are answers to the following points:

  1. what are good "recipe" or "archetype" generative and/or hierarchical control schemes to use in a modular format? These could be thought of as "building blocks" that could be used alone or in conjunction with one another. These would be "core curriculum" for generative patching; I would be surprised if there hasn't been a university class or book written on this, but I haven't found anything deep on this yet. Of course, one of our friendly forum experts Lugia has given many examples of this type of patching (see threads noted above).

  2. what are specific DAW (esp. Live) devices, routings & setups that parallel (#1 above) the "recipe" or "archetype" generative and/or hierarchical control schemes to use in a modular format? We've scratched the surface on that point above, BUT at least for me, there remains a long way to go before my capabilities catch up to my imagination on this. In particular I want to be able to:

2a. do one to many, many to one, and several to many control routings in Live. The example would be have 3 LFOs running with different rates and shapes, and those feeding several tracks / devices.

2b. sequence nearly EVERYTHING. For example, have 5 separate midi tracks all with sequence information, running say an ABAC structural pattern but at different rates. Then feed that information to pitch, rhythm, duration, filter cutoff and timbre controls, on a differential basis, to multiple instruments, for example covering the bass, tenor, alto, soprano ranges. That would be a "several to several" routing scheme, where the sequences are in-DAW equivalents to CV signal in a modular AND these sequencer lanes plus any down-chain control devices essentially drive 90%+ of the composition's score. What IS awesome and gets me part of the way on this front is Kameleono (https://www.midimood.com/product/kameleono/), the most useful MIDI tool I know of, and a good value at $49 if you don't already have it! Kameleono plus some thoughtful routing lets me control at least pitch and rhythm independently.

3a. what is the hybrid setup (e.g. modular + DAW) that will allow creating a generative / hierarchical control system in modular and interface that well with the DAW and vice versa? Is only a sufficiently big Expert Sleepers module required for doing this?

Wrapping up this extreme TLDR post -- anyone who would like to add some constructive questions, pointers, tips, references, etc. please feel free to pile on below.



Hi jorik,

I use the Minibrute 2S to sequence my eurorack VCOs all the time, and I love it. Also the velocity and pressure tracks can be used for pitch and gates too, which is a plus. I wouldn't rush to buy a sequencer until I knew all the ins and outs of the Minibrute, it's a pretty cool machine.

Good morning:

At the risk of appearing mentally small, I have the 4ms Tapographic Delay, and I can't seem to get it to reset by holding down the Repeat/Clear button per the manual.

I attempted to go deep on some settings and the lights are lit up red. Doesn't seem to respond to reset attempts.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Many thanks,


Addendum: After a couple searches online, I can't find any hardware Eurorack modules that have an absolute value function. That seems weird―software modulars always have it.

As a substitute, you can square the feedback signal with a four-quadrant multiplier, but this is less effective. The square function further attenuates quiet signals (making the chaotic behaviour harder to initiate), and further amplifies loud ones (which tends to peg the filter to +10 volts) so the range of filter parameters that will produce noise becomes very narrow.

I've read the manual, having a bit of an issue following along though. When I hold down the bank button and press another gate button, the light changes while bank is held down and it appears to me that I'm in another bank. But the pattern is the same. If I save something there, that pattern follows me to each new bank.

If I change bank and delete the pattern, I can't find it by going back to the previous bank.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I asked support a few days ago and haven't heard from them. Do I need to save each track in a pattern individually by pressing save+Gate 1, save+Gate 2, etc?

Bit lost here, any help would mean a lot!

Yesterday I found a surprising way to generate noise: Feed an HPF or BPF's input with the absolute value of its output at a high gain. Depending on the filter and parameters used, it will generate white noise, brown noise, narrowband noise, regular or random bursts of noise, crackly sounds, etc.

I did this in Softube Modular (it works with the Korgasmatron II and the Doepfer VCF-8), and was wondering if someone could try it IRL and let me know if it works. I don't own anything in hardware that has an absolute value function. The two above-mentioned filters have input gain knobs that go to clipping, which helps a lot.

Is this already a known trick?

Hey Everyone, fairly new here but really enjoying the ride so far!

After getting my feet wet with a Doepfer MC I‘m building out my first „real“ „System“. Already got the case built (2x60TE) and most of the upper row+some of the lower Row collected.
I‘m sticking to Doepfer modules for now as I wan‘t to avoid getting massive GAS and spending way to much money. The exeption is the disting mk4 here to avoid that Moment when you‘re missing a Bandpass Filter or a VCA or want something to trigger Sounds with while no Keyboard is around.
That being said the main goal here is to build a flexible but fairly straightforward Bass synth for riffing with an external sequencer or Keyboard. The BBD is fo trying out Karplus and general Sound-Design purposes (havent bought that one yet).
I‘m looking for any advice here to avoid frustrations with the finished system. I was going to go with dual Low Pass Gates but I really want to try the A101-6 as a second Filter/Phaser/Phaseshifter because it seems like a lot of fun.

ModularGrid Rack

PS: can I share the Case to the Thread from My Modular? if so then how? Otherwise I will make the System viewable publicly on my Page. [edit: figured that one out]

Thread: Disting mk4

Thanks, that sounds like good advice. I'm sure I can put it to good use.

Thread: Disting mk4

I've mainly used it as a tape delay...

Pretty much all the algorithms are decent - they do what they say they do

I think the trick with it is to use the favourites function and not worry about using or even trying all the functions

Use it to fill in what you don't have (an extra filter/vca or whatever) and want to experiment with (wavetable vco for example)

Use it to determine the next module you get - if you have it stuck on tape delay as I have had - get a tape delay and use it for something else - I just bought a Magneto and haven't re-assigned my disting to anything else yet

Don't try flipping through all the algos to find out what they do - and have to constantly refer to the manual whilst you are doing it and then get frustrated and hate the module - this is what I've seen a lot of people doing - if you bought 100 modules or whatever it is at one go you wouldn't expect to learn them all inside out in an afternoon - or even in a year...

Thread: Disting mk4

What things do you personally use Disting mk4 for ?. What do you think it does well or not so well ?.
I've had one for a little while and not really had the time to go through all the logarithms, so some of your thoughts would be welcome.

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your input, very much appreciated!

Instruo is indeed available in VCV, so I was already thinking of changing them. Good idea of having more (flexible) VCO's and Sequencer, also the Minibrute 2S has a sequencer and two VCO's. But I'm not sure if the sequencer can be used for the external VCO's. I doubt if they can. The difficulty for me is having the idea to both have a stand alone hardware modular system and a system that is enhanced by VCV. That is why I chose es9 to be able to have more connections with VCV.

The black output module could get a smaller alternative, but balanced out and phone out would be nice ;-).

Back to the drawing board... :-)

Live works admirably here, as long as it's the FULL version with Max for Live. That one addition unlocks a lot of the hidden power under Ableton's hood, and since you can define LOTS of possible operations/routings/etc via Max, it's sort of a unique situation. But it's VERY easy to set up all sorts of "sneaky" send/return signal paths with M4L objects. With that, I can set up lots of actions that are basically nonrepeating, yet which follow clear musical patterns as a work plays.
-- Lugia

What are some M4L devices you'd recommend??

OK, so I'm at this point now. How I arrived at my current setup is a long story of what I perceived as good deals at the time and GAS. I'm trying to complement my Moog Grandmother and Subharmonicon while keeping them OUT of the rack itself. One of my main concerns is I'd like to be able to mess with the rack by itself with a very small midi controller(in some cases theremin mostly keys) AND I'd like to have headphone out that comes out of both ears. I'm not concerned with stereo effects or anything with TWO different fields right now. I made decision I'll deal with stereo mixing/effects once I get it to the DAW.

I'm looking at the Behringer 305 because of the headphone out, mixer and EQ capabilities. If I get that module do I still need a VCA module ? Ultimately I'll be sending what I want to record to my Focusrite sound interface to the DAW. I'm thinking with the two Oscillator modules (Erica Fusion VCO2 and Plaits) I can do certain things with the mixer in the grandmother(noise channel in) and the Grandmothers envelope to cut corners on cost. Is this stupid or what ?

I'm thinking the biggest thing I need in this setup is a VCA but I'm not sure why. Since the Grandmother has mixer envelope generator LFO high pass lo pass filter I was going to try and use those and beef up my oscillator options with the Plaits and Erica Fusion VCO2. Does this make any sense or do I get the Eurorack Beavis and Butthead award for the year for taking this path ?

In my own defense I stumbled into buying the Erica Fusion VCO2 thinking I was getting a good deal(after years of swearing off modular because of the cost) but didn't realize it started me on this never ending bank account draining path.

  • I got the Forbidden Planet filter because I thought it sounded really cool in a Grandmother related youtube video.
  • I got the Doepfer A-147-2 because I figured I needed an LFO and it was one of the few that had a SIN wave
  • I got Plaits because I've heard a lot of good things about it and needed digital VCO to complement analog Erica Fusion VCO2

I really need the HEADPHONE OUT to both ears but the Behringer 305 takes up a LOT of real estate. I could potentially forego this because I have a pretty decent Mackie VLZ Pro mixer that can push these signals into and it has a great headphone amp in it BUT it kills the portability of being able to move the rack around with a small midi controller and just plug the Headphones into for good fidelity.

Most likely I really need a good multi channel Envelope Generator at this point since the Grandmothers is pretty limited and strange. I'm going to leave the sequencing to the Grandmother and Subharmonicons pitch sequncers for now. And I need VCA module. Any suggestions to finishing this initial build will be greatly appreciated.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy