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yes I agree about euclidean waves - but as a starter - I think it's better to get pams and then, if and only if, there is frustration with not being able to change euclidean ratios on the fly , get euclidean waves - Pams forces you a bit more to think about what you are doing, from what I can tell (not having euclidean waves) so may be a better learning tool too - rather than just wiggling away...

the rack looks very sound source heavy to me - not enough support modules to do justice to the sound sources...

I would want an extra row for utilities etc etc

see my signature, particularly the formula, for a rough guide to getting the most versatility out of a modular synthesizer for the least amount of cash

personally I like the tesseract tex-mix over the wmd performance mixer - it's significantly cheaper and more expandable and uses less power - I'm sure that the performance mixer is exceptional - but it is big and expensive and power hungry...

the advantage of these over the cockpit is that they have panning for mono sources to stereo, in the case of the wmd pm, this can be automated with an lfo*) - which allows you to put a mono source in the middle, fully left or fully right or somewhere in between - if you only have stereo inputs - then you only get the possibility of fully left or fully right - or both if you mult the signal (and then recombine using a special cable in the case of these cockpit modules)

the only "advantage" of the cockpits I see is that they have ducking - although imo this is better patched using envelopes, an inverter/polarizer/attenuverter, a small utility mixer and a vca - ie "modular synthesis" and not just "synthesis with modules"...

I see the 'mono/stereo/ios send/return' nature of these mixer modules to be a complete pain in the arse... I seriously would not want it in my rack... I'd be loosing any adapter cables in the pile of patch cables and/or confusing stereo cables with regular patch cables and wondering why my stereo field was competely shit constantly - ymmv, though

the cockpit modules only really stand up in a endorphin.es only set up and if you are willing to separate audio and cv - which is one of the advantages of eurorack over some other formats, in that it doesn't do this...

BUT saying that either way you need some smaller mixers like the 3*mia or shades or whatever - to use as sub-mixers... and then you get back to the mono/stereo patch cable malarky...

also at least one filter is a good idea - there are so many available and they are so personal, that I find it difficult to recommend them - I have a couple of ripples - which are rolandy/vanilla, various doepfer ones that are based on other classic filter designs (wasp, sem, moog) and a couple more - but they all impart their own characteristics and it's impossible to say x is better than y - as it's so personal - there are plenty of filter shootoout demos on youtube, which should give you a basic idea - what to look out for

*you can do this easily with a mult, a couple of vcas, an lfo and an inverter - if you want to patch it when needed - or buy cv-able panner modules if used constantly

I'm fairly new at this. I own several of these modules but plan to pick up the rest. I use a drum machine Roland TR-8s; so I haven't explored that on a modular basis; but have another case in the ready for drums and sequencers.

I also have Erica Synths DB-01 as a desktop sequenced baseline, and have the o-coast/strega/o-control on my desk as well.
I use Ableton Live, thus the ES-09. I have the Keystep Pro Midi sequencer/controller with Midi/CV connectivity.

I converted a beautiful burl oak humidor and has Mutable Instruments: Marbles, Plaits, and Rings plus the Disting MK4.
I'm into ambient and otherworldly sounds. Not into Techno just yet.
Thank you in advance for your feedback.

Thanks for the feedback. Damn, I thought I was gonna get the balance right, this time! I guess I'll need to do more thinking about it. Appreciate the suggestion of wmd toolbox, I'll check that out!

The Cockpit from Endorphins is also a 4 Stereo Channel Performance Mixer, so that is then 8 channel i have then in the rack, i have 2 of them.
So i need more then that to make the workflow better?

Thanks for your input ThePlate.

I saw the wmd mixer, looks really practical and the Roland 531 is also a nice module...also bit cheaper then the wmd i think..hehehe

How about forsaking the Erica mult for, say, a sub-mixer or two for the voices, and then a good performance mixer like the Roland 530 or 531? Some arrangement like that would fit in your case. Otherwise just get the wmd performance mixer. It is the best.

Small submixers: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/browser?SearchName=&SearchVendor=&SearchFunction=6&SearchSecondaryfunction=&SearchHeight=&SearchTe=8&SearchTemethod=max&SearchBuildtype=&SearchLifecycle=&SearchSet=all&SearchMarketplace=&SearchIsmodeled=0&SearchShowothers=0&order=tag&direction=asc

Thank you JimHowell1970 for the feedback.

What would you suggest I do, what modules I need to look at and maybe take away?
Cheers

I think you're experiencing a lot of confusion relating to what modules actually do - a lot seem to be in the wrong categories...

for example - source of uncertainty is a random modulation source, not a sound source as the other's are that you've classed as "sources", what you've classed as 'modifiers' some are modulation sources and plog - I'd class that as a utility - as I would compare2 (both logic), O&C I'd categroise with Pams, etc etc etc

take a look at my signature - the formula especially - it's designed as a rule of thumb for getting the most versatility from a modular synth for the least money...

also agree strongly with what @plragde says - also I heard, but don't know how correct this is that ColdMac can be used for both audio and cv, but not at the same time - so what looks like a great bundle of utilities - is actually only 1/2 as useful as it could be - wmd/ssf toolbox & mutable instruments kinks are very useful combined utility modules that are easier to understand and maybe easier to find - kinks either used or NOS in stores or as a clone (it's been discontinued for a while now)

The outputs don't go to the next input, rather they are mixed with the next output if unpatched.
-- adaris

important distinction!!

Cool, thanks for the suggestion.

no still mostly the same problems

especially the mixing solution... the queen of pentacles is stereo out, the furtherrgenerator is lots of mono outputs of individual waveforms - these might need mixing, the godspeed has 2 mono outputs, the desmodus versio and the arbhar are stereo

other than the veils - good choice of vca btw, the cockpits are allegedly stereo, but on single jack (no idea how that works), feeding rosie, a stereo output! do you need a load of stereo cables that are specialist, either mono->stereo, or single stereo cables??

it just fails to work properly - no ability to sub mix waveforms - except for what's available onboard the actual vcos, no ability to convert mono to stereo... there's no panning - so the mono sources are only ever going to be hard left or hard right... no where in between...

& no filters?

You're not going to find anything that covers all the functionality of Cold Mac in 8hp. But you have some of that functionality elsewhere, and you might not need other parts of it. Maybe go through the technical map (https://github.com/whimsicalraps/mannequins-technical-maps/blob/master/cold-mac/cold-mac.pdf) and see what you really wanted from it. Anything you replace it with will almost certainly be easier to learn and use.

Thanks! Any suggestions on what might replace the Cold Mac?
Also, yeah, I'm probably being too eager about the Buchla / Tiptop modules. They just look so cool...

Cold Mac is very hard to get hold of, and the two Buchla/Tiptop modules feel a little out of place to me, but overall it seems fine. It's a lot to get all at once, though. Maybe think about an incremental plan, giving you a chance to learn about modules a few at a time?

The outputs don't go to the next input, rather they are mixed with the next output if unpatched.

Pam's does Euclidean, but in a more set-and-forget way, so if you want playability, Euclidean Circles is a reasonable combo with Quad Drum / Qex. But it does take up space. You might think about the other wide modules here (Morphagene, Qpas, Maths) and consider alternatives. There's also a fair amount of overlap among O_c, CVilization, øchd, Sloths, and Wogglebug. It's not so much that one can be covered by the others, but that there's a lot of similar kinds of modulation here and not much to modulate. Jim has good advice on thinking about voices and their paths through a possible system. Try not to fill the case more than 3/4 full in any potential plan, to leave room for discovery and expansion.

very peaceful :)

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/users/view/197880

no link?

Jim’s right- I’d ditch the Euclidean Circles and Mordax Data module in a case this size and replace them with something like the Intellijel Quad VCA and a good cv mixer and perhaps add a logic module.

I made some adjustments for my techno live setup case.
I am open to feedback if this setup is balanced?

Please leave a comment if I am on the right track here or not...?

Here is the link>

Cheers
and thanks

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 17:22

'Lluvia' is one of tracks included in my mixtape Efímero, mainly with rings attempt to keep a minimal introspective and meditative state of mind.

Clock is generate by Rampage and Rings is sequenced by Rene. Desmodus Versio with shimmer reverb and Beads are mixed in Jumble henge together with Rings.

A longer version is included in mixtape available at bandcamp:
https://sergionunca.bandcamp.com/album/ef-mero

You could get two Antumbra DVCAs and chain them together with the jumpers on the back, that's Veils in 8hp
-- milkmilklemonade

Nice idea. If you chain them, since they'd be 4 VCAs does that make them cascade to the next input (etc)?

The newer Veils or two chained Antumbra DVCAs would be my choice as well (and is, I have them both).

Hello!

I'm trying to think through a generative system for a Doepfer A-100 P9 9U case. This is what I had in mind:

In/out: Joranalogue Recieve 2, Happy Nerding Isolator.
Sources: Doepfer A-111-4, Tiptop Buchla 258t; Tiptop Buchla 266t.
Computer/FX: Ornaments and Crime, Happy Nerding FX AID XL
Modifiers: Joranalogue Contour 1, Joranalogue Filter 8, Happy Nerding MMM VCF, Xaoc Zadar/NIN, Intellijel Plog, Mutable Instruments Stages.
Modulators: Xaoc Batumi/Poti, Ladik L-121, Joranalogue Compare 2, Mannequins Cold Mac.
Utilities: Intellijel Scales, Doepfer A-130-2 Dual VCA, Dopefer A-135-2 Quad VCA/Mixer, Intellijel Quad VCA, Mutable Instruments Veils, Schenktronics Attenuverter, ALM PNW/Pexp, Doepfer A-151 Sequential switch, Happy Nerding PanMix Jr.

I'd love some feedback. My plan is to have the rack be complimented by external gear (such as the Arturia Minibrute 2s - 4 sequencers, 2 lfos, an extra VCA and an inverter), but would still like the rack to be a largely self-sufficient system. Am I heading in the right direction? Any functions or utilities that I'm overlooking? Any modules I should switch out because there are better, more readily available options?

Thanks so much in advance!

You could get two Antumbra DVCAs and chain them together with the jumpers on the back, that's Veils in 8hp

yeah - veils is great - and mutable product support is outstanding - unfortunately it's 10hp - so 2hp over what the OP wants - but probably worth making the space for!

the older veils has been discontinued for nearly 2 years - the new one, veils (2020), saves 2hp and adds a couple of features, including offsets and sliders!

sounds like your instincts are reasonably good then...

take a look at and think about the formula in my signature - it's a quick and dirty, rough guide to getting the most versatility out of a modular for the least expense

Thanks for the feedback. I thought so a bit.. hehehe....
I need to revisit this system a bit more.

It was a headphones thing this morning with a pair of AKG k175's that are pretty bassy, think I would have woke the wife! Thanks guys :)

Thanks! Me too haha. I should mention that the resonance on the Modcan Multimode Filter was cranked all the way up, that was an important component of the sound.

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 14:47

Very cool. I really liked that kick.

+1 to basically everything Jim said.
What about this:

I got rid of the scope and Clouds clone, added a better mixing option, attenuverters, some plumbing, and changed the layout to be a little more logical in the signal flow department. That leaves you with 26hp open. Cover that with blank panels until you play around with everything and start to realize what you really need. Saves a bit of money from your original design too.
Just a suggestion on how I would approach this. Have fun!

*Edit: Also, I think there is a newer version of Veils that could save you a few more hp. Not sure about availability of the newer one vs. the older one in Australia though.

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 14:30

I can recommend the veils vca

Thanks! The drum sound was:

Doepfer A-111-3 (triangle LFO) -> Abyss Devices Saevitus -> Modcan Multimode Filter (lowpass) -> DIY Veils (for some amplification) -> Sketchy Labs Freak Shift -> DPW MoG -> Metasonix RK4. For the basic drum sound, the Freak Shift and MoG were dry/"off", but they still significantly affected the tone for one reason or another.

I added in the Abyss Devices Saevitum -> Happy Nerding FX Aid XL (Peak compression algo) later in the track when the drum sound is distorted.

too many sound sources - so completely unbalanced - especially with the massive sequencer
no filters
poor mixing solution
no real vcas
no mixing for cv
no utilities
no control

black panel maths are near unobtanium - maybe you can find a replacement panel...

it's not just Australia - module supply can be erratic at the best of times and the pandemic has made it worse, everywhere - but I wouldn't worry too much - start with an absolute minimum and add modules as and when and only after you thoroughly understand the modules you already have and how they interact

things I would note - some of the modules will be unusable in their current positions

I'd go with 2 fx aids, the dsp2 takes up a huge amount of space - which could be better used for other things

look at your mixing again: the eoc mixer is 4 stereo ins and there are no panning - all your sound sources are mono - or dual mono

not convinced about the unity mixers - I'd want some control

beads or typhoon - I wouldn't have both in this size rack

tbh probably too many voices in too small a case...

Yeah, man! Interesting tones. What were you using for the kick drum?

Sounds like intravenous electricity. I'm digging it.

That’s wild! I hope you had that cranked. :-) Cheers!

Good day modular people.

I would like to know what you think of this setup?

I am going for a techno live performance case.

Is there some things i am missing? Do i have as well enough utilities to run this beast?

Hope to hear some feedback, will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Headphones recommended, but its all a bit hectic!

Weirdness, after watching a patch video by @Anthurium VCO's Noise, LFO's, I found to get some of the effect that Anthurium was getting I had to put the VCO signals through a pre-amp before mixing, then found that feeding the VCO's a negative offset to drive them slower than the knob settings.
Its all a bit gritty and mental to be honest!

The vid I was following

I'm looking at various options for Quad VCAs (or similar VCAs in 8hp or under - as an example Happy Nerding's 3 x VCA). Anyhow, I saw the Malekko Quad VCA (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/malekko-heavy-industry-quad-vca-black-panel) which looks really interesting but I can't seem to find much feedback from people about this module. The only thing that comes up is that Malekko, as a company, isn't very user friendly in replying to peoples mails.

So, if you see this thread, and have the module, maybe you can tell me what you think?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. I forgot to say, the black panel isn't of any importance - can be silver.

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 07:44

New modular track, hot off the presses:

i wish had the space/place to be building DYIs....

but I've been working on a revamp set of units .. ...
it seems a lot of what i was originally after is hard to get in Australia @ the moment, due access to overseas supply.
so im going on availability now ...

can you have a look over it and see if its more balanced ..
i know i've got a couple odd bits but I'm trying to think out of the box.!

cheers
BB

P.S i really appreciate the time/ knowledge you are imparting in my direction.. thanks again...

You should keep the Neutron in its own case, giving you room for support modules which you will need.

How have you patched the Dot and the Black Sequencer? I don't have either, but I don't see a way of doing what you want to do with just these two modules. The BS expects a regular clock and has only one Gate In. With a VCA, you could drop out notes from the BS on low gate from the other Dot channel. Other sequencers would let you use a Dot channel as an irregular clock, but mostly only one channel, not two. It might make more sense to use the Dot separately on percussive voices, and the BS on melodic ones.

If you want to combine two or more audio signals, then, yes, you will need a mixer (perhaps more than one, depending on what you want to do), and there are many possibilities. The µJack is discontinued, but Intellijel makes the Outs module, and again there are other possibilities. I have personal experience with the ALM HPO and Befaco Out v3, and like both.

There are more modules you are likely to need, but it might be best to start using these while you keep doing research. Through use you may discover things you want to do and can look for ways to accomplish them.

I don't have a neutron but...

the normalised (default) path should be something like vco -> sub-mixer -> vca -> vcf or vc0 -> sub-mixer -> vcf -> vca

saying that the obvious place to take your output from is the output labelled 'output'...

where are you trying to take your signal from?

maybe check the cutoff on the vcf...