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For me it's a bit different. To keep myself away from TV, I committed myself to making a new track every day. So every evening, I pull all the patch cables and start from scratch. 2-3 hours later, I post the result on SoundCloud. I've been doing that since March. I can tell you, it's a very fast way to learn a lot about patching techniques.
-- Arrandan

That's a hell of a disciplined way to learn, wow. Those are cool tracks, by the way!

I feel that this approach is somewhat similar to mine; each time I patch I try to find slightly different ways to connect everything to avoid a rut where each patch sounds the same. Also, after a few days, I'm usually out of cables and decide to start anew out of boredom (there's that impatience I was mentioning earlier). I also sometimes purposely limit myself to a small selection of modules, both to push myself by setting artificial restrictions to work around and to counter the impulse to use every module and cable in every patch.

@GarfieldModular, thanks! I remember you saying in another thread that you predominantly do generative stuff. Do you typically find that you start a patch the same way each time? For example, I've realized that I rely too heavily on O_c's shift register and quantizer to start a patch, and am trying to avoid being overly reliant on that same signal path.

Appreciate all the feedback, everyone!

Cool, thanks!

Interesting, thanks for the response. I suppose I would agree that it's very connected to all of those variables (goals, style, size, etc.). At the moment, my system is still relatively small (https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2086285.jpg - how do I post a link to my rack rather than the jpg?), so I think part of my issue is that I can't work around an existing patch too easily if I want access to a module. The other part is that I'm just an impatient person (sigh).

The temporary nature of patches is part of the fun for me, but as I said, I'm starting to realize that maybe I'm not actually exploring them deeply enough before I remove the cables. But as each patch is a learning experience, I suppose that it's just a matter of gaining more experience with my modules and my own workflow.

Hi all!

General question, but I'm curious how long you typically keep a patch before starting a new one? Additionally, how do you know when you've fully explored your patch and are ready to move on to something new?

I find that my patches only last between a few days to a week before I feel the urge to explore something new. I realize that I'm most inspired when building a new patch, rather than returning to the befuddling spaghetti of an older one. However, as my rack and experience grow, I'm finding that there are seemingly infinite variations to explore within each patch. Also, I've read several posts of people who keep patches together for weeks or even months! Due to that, I'm starting to wonder if I'm exploring each patch deeply enough, and if my lack of inspiration with older patches actually comes from a lack of knowledge.

How do you know when you're "done" with a patch and ready to move onto greener musical pastures?

Do you have any strategies that you when use to explore your patches to ensure that you've squeezed out all the music you can from it?

Thanks everyone!

@Toccata and @JimHowell1970 Thanks so much for the detailed feedback and for thinking through some patching examples for this rig! As you say, finding out something doesn't work as intended after putting so much into this rig would be disappointing, to put it mildly. I hadn't even considered the possibility that I'd could reach a point of diminishing returns concerning the number of LFOs, attenuverters, etc. Planning out a system based on manuals and youtube videos is fun, but definitely misses the experiential aspect that would allow me to really get a feel for how the pieces interact with each other. I really appreciate y'all taking the time to guide us less experienced wigglers through this morass of modules.

You say in your layout description you have 'MIDI in the bottom left' but you have the ES-8 which is an Audio Interface, I think. You might be thinking of the FH-2 instead yes? That does MIDI to CV conversion so you can play from external USB devices and your DAW, etc.

Much appreciated, you're absolutely right. Thanks for catching a silly mistake!

Thanks for pointing that out. I have a Compare 2 now, mostly use it for the logic section. Still trying to figure out how to integrate it into my patches, to be honest.

Thanks @dubstepjoris for the detailed response!

To be honest, I'm hoping for the rig to be able to do a bit of everything. I've currently got a 6u Rackbrute + Minibrute 2s setup, which I'm planning on turning into a standalone synth for more beat oriented music, so this rig can be predominantly generative focused.

Good point about the trigger sources and quantizers. As @Manbearpignick says, I tend to use the O_c for shift registers and quantizing, so I'm hoping that the 2 there plus the Scales will get me where I want to go. Then again, I'm definitely eyeing the Harmonaig and a few others. It's amazing that with a rack this size, it still feels like I have to make compromises in places.

Thanks again everyone!

Thanks so much for the feedback! I've been trawling through the forums for a while trying to collect all the tips and info you and other power users have been suggesting about building racks - I'm happy to hear that I seem to be on the right track.

I was worried that I had some functionality blindspots in the design. Hadn't looked into slope detectors before, but they seem like really useful utilities. If I understand them correctly, they'll send out gates while they detect a changing cv signal, correct? Can those be used with audio signals, as well?

Also, that microcell looks sweet, I'll definitely have to check that out.

Thanks again!

Hi all,

I've been dipping my toes into modular for about a year and a half now, and am starting to think about expanding into a serious system. I've been eyeing the Case from Lake resealable 15u 126 hp model (https://www.casefromlake.com/product-page/15u-126-hp-84-104-or-other-eurorack-portable-case-powered-patched-resealable) as being sufficient for me to build a rack without too many sacrifices (no harm in dreaming big and pretending I have the funds). I put together the linked rack to see if this is the direction I want to head.

Goals of the rack:
1) Be interactive and playable.
2) Able to perform hands-off generative music.
3) Be a versatile multi-voice instrument with lots of sound mangling possibilities.
4) Be self-contained when needed, and able to connect with external gear as needed.

Planning the rack:
1) Making it interactive - I figured the "playing surface" would be the outside perimeter (rows 1 and 5 and the exteriors of the inner rows), as the inner rows would hard to access once patched. I added joysticks and some macro-controllers, and placed the more wiggle-able modules on the perimeter o make it more playable.
2) Grouping by function - I have a general pattern starting with sequencers and midi in the bottom left, moving up to inputs and drums and then triggers and gates and randomness in the center. Above that are modulators and then the voices on the top left. Moving to the top right, there are audio manipulators, below that are envelopes and the like. The center right will be the main output area, with mixers and effects and such. The bottom right has more modulators and other interactive modules. Utilities are sprinkled throughout.

Questions:
1) Am I thinking along the right track for an instrument that will meet my goals?
2) Am I missing anything important, or are there better/more available modules for the job?
3) Are there redundancies and modules I can remove to reclaim hp?
4) Do you have suggestions on other ways to organize the rack to make it a coherent and playable instrument?

Thanks a bunch everyone!

I hadn't really looked at the Quadrax deeply before, but wow! it seems pretty handy. My wallet appreciates that they're not available at the moment!

Thanks for the advice!

Thanks @t4mber. I didn't know about the Droid, certainly interesting (albeit a little intimidating!). As far as a "playing surface" is concerned, I'd love to find a solution to allow for more interaction with the system. I've not gotten Stages yet, but the 321 and Veils work well together so far for tuning my modulators (especially with the 321's mixer functions). They're just limited by size. Always looking for recommendations though.

Firstly, if you're open to integrating this with a computer, get an ES9 and connect your physical modules with VCVRack. It will open up soooo many ways to learn. I do all my mixing and end of chain effects in VCV, including the amazing and free Supermassive reverb plugin from Vahalla. If you're dead set on a physical only rack, you could even sell on the ES9 when your case is near-full. You'll find a buyer in about 60 seconds after listing it on Reverb.com

Cool idea. I'm definitely not opposed to some computer integration. Still learning my way around VCV, it would be nice to augment the rack, as long as it can stay predominantly physical. I'll have to look into the ES9.

Secondly, in your case, you need to increase the randomness (actually the Buchla random you had before would be ideal). I would definitely add dedicated Sample & Holds and put them next to your noise module. Would also add some free running chaotic random CV like a Sloths. Also consider at least one buffered mult.

Sloths is new to me. Seems like a bit of an unpredictable beast. Absolutely agree on needing more randomness though, so I'm happy for the suggestion. I often use the O_c for its shift register/turing machine apps, though I've been on the search for a dedicated piece to replace that and free up the module for other things.

The other thing I think you need are more ways to attenuate, invert, offset. One key thing about generative is being able to 'tune' your CV in order to precisely tweak that generative randomness into something listenable. One thing you could do is swap some your VCA choices with ones that can VCA but also do inversion and offset. You have a bit of that, but IMHO you need more.

Finally I would sprinkle those utilities all around your case.

Thanks so much for the advice!

Before you get a Mimetic Digitalis try setting your Pam's to 4x, stepped random wave, and loop length to CV1. You can send 0V and it will just generate random steps, but then increase voltage to lock it in a loop. Then back to 0V for Turing Machine style random stepped voltage.
-- obscuremachines

What a cool trick, thanks!

A Mimetic Digitalis sequencer would work well in this set-up. They are great for stepped CV modulation. It would work nicely with your Pam's.
-- Ronin1973

Thanks for the suggestion. I typically use the MB2s for sequencing, but I'd love to add more onboard ability to lesson my reliance on the tabletop units, particularly if they are good for playing live. With the Pam's and the A138m, that might be a great combo for complex weirdness.

I really like batumi and poti, but I'd be tempted to also consider zadar and nin - which can provide some very long complex modulation, which can easily be attenuated to mix with other modulation sources in the matrix mixer... I'd probably go with this and start saving for the next case - to put the other modules in - another very interesting module I'd probably look at is the Xaoc Samara ii - which has an interesting clamp function...

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your feedback. I've been torn between the Batumi and Zadar for quite a while, but since they keep being out of stock, I've been stuck in Xaoc limbo for both. We'll see which is in stock first, but definitely think I'm going to end up with both eventually, once a new case arrives. I hadn't looked at the Samara ii yet, that one seems quite useful, might be a good fit.

a good habit when you get a case is to charge rack space (ie save the cost of the hp for the module in a piggy bank or savings account) - by the time the case is full there'll be enough cash for the next case...
-- JimHowell1970

That's a great idea, thanks!

I've been slowly piecing together this 6U rack with a goal of making an instrument that can function alone for generative music, but also supplement the Minibrute 2s when I want a more hands-on, guided session. I've got 13hp left, and I'm curious what feedback y'all would have for this? Obviously, the correct answer is a bigger rack, but that's gonna have to wait for a bit, unfortunately. I'm currently thinking along the lines of the Xaoc Batumi, WMD/SSF Toolbox, or DivKid/SSF RND sample and hold for the last piece.

Are there things I've overlooked or skimped on?
Any suggestions for organization and signal flow (particularly if it results in more usable space)?
Anything you would replace?

Thanks!

Hi all,

Following up on the advice I received from the previous post (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/11058). Is this new version nearer the mark? I tried to keep @JimHowell1970 's formula in mind this time. Is this distribution of modulators and utilities more reasonable? Any feedback or suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback. Damn, I thought I was gonna get the balance right, this time! I guess I'll need to do more thinking about it. Appreciate the suggestion of wmd toolbox, I'll check that out!

Cool, thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks! Any suggestions on what might replace the Cold Mac?
Also, yeah, I'm probably being too eager about the Buchla / Tiptop modules. They just look so cool...

Hello!

I'm trying to think through a generative system for a Doepfer A-100 P9 9U case. This is what I had in mind:

In/out: Joranalogue Recieve 2, Happy Nerding Isolator.
Sources: Doepfer A-111-4, Tiptop Buchla 258t; Tiptop Buchla 266t.
Computer/FX: Ornaments and Crime, Happy Nerding FX AID XL
Modifiers: Joranalogue Contour 1, Joranalogue Filter 8, Happy Nerding MMM VCF, Xaoc Zadar/NIN, Intellijel Plog, Mutable Instruments Stages.
Modulators: Xaoc Batumi/Poti, Ladik L-121, Joranalogue Compare 2, Mannequins Cold Mac.
Utilities: Intellijel Scales, Doepfer A-130-2 Dual VCA, Dopefer A-135-2 Quad VCA/Mixer, Intellijel Quad VCA, Mutable Instruments Veils, Schenktronics Attenuverter, ALM PNW/Pexp, Doepfer A-151 Sequential switch, Happy Nerding PanMix Jr.

I'd love some feedback. My plan is to have the rack be complimented by external gear (such as the Arturia Minibrute 2s - 4 sequencers, 2 lfos, an extra VCA and an inverter), but would still like the rack to be a largely self-sufficient system. Am I heading in the right direction? Any functions or utilities that I'm overlooking? Any modules I should switch out because there are better, more readily available options?

Thanks so much in advance!

Maths would be another that you could potentially do a lot with your Minibrute as well (and has a pretty good learning curve to it as well so getting a head start on learning it is not a bad idea)...when you get Maths, do a search for "Make Noise Maths V2 Illustrated supplement" and bookmark that sucker.

Also, not to complicate things, but ornament and crime has an optional firmware called Hemispheres (which I installed) that essentially allows you to split the module in half and support two simultaneous applets with different functions at the same time. It does overwrite the original firmware which you can easily reinstall but you might want to take a look at what it offers here: https://github.com/Chysn/O_C-HemisphereSuite/wiki versus the apps that are included on the original firmware here: https://ornament-and-cri.me/

-- jb61264

I've been excited for the Maths ever since I started looking into modular. Seems like a beast, and definitely hoping it plays nicely with the different sequencers on the MB 2s. I'll check out Hemisphere, as well. I'm loving all these rabbit-holes. Thanks!

All of them.

-- Ronin1973

Hah, if only!
Thanks for the info!

The big problem here is that, if this is supposed to be a generative system, it's a little "tight". I was able to add enough modulators and pick-offs to help with that, though. But this would really turn out better if I didn't have the Rackbrute constraint to work against. That's really the big stumbling block here; even putting the build into something slightly larger, like a Mantis, would give more working room to go with some larger/more ergonomic modules plus offer more room in general for additional functions. But for now, this is pretty serviceable.
-- Lugia

Wow! Thanks so much, I really appreciate you taking the time to give feedback. This system looks cool, the Ornaments and Crime in particular seems amazing. I'll look into the Mantis case, as well. Out of curiosity, since I will be buying modules one by one over time, is there a particular module of the above that I should make sure to get first, or early in the process?

Does the Minibrute 2s have a clock out? Assuming you'll be using that with your rack? You might get recommendations to use smaller modules, like maybe FX Aid XL instead of Beads, maybe Bastl Ciao! instead of the Audio Interface II and ALM headphone output...the idea being to free up some HP to add some additional VCAs or utility modules.

Yeah, the MB2s has a clock in/out, but I was thinking of having the PNW as the master clock. I'll look into the Bastl Ciao. Thanks for the suggestions!

nothing about this screams generative to me - how are you expecting to generate random sequences? and modify them over time?
-- JimHowell1970

Thanks. Between the external gear I have 5 sequencers and 3 LFOs... I was thinking that these could be used with the PNW, Maths, and Logic to add randomness/change over time. Definitely seems like I've more research to do (no surprise there). Any suggestions of what type of modules I should be looking for?

Hi all,

I'm looking to dive into the world of generative music, and would love some thoughts on this rack (my first). I've already got an Arturia Minibrute 2s (seriously, it's a beast!), a Behringer model D, and an Arturia Keystep 37 for some external oscillators, lfo's, and sequencers, and am looking to expand into proper modular with the Rackbrute 6u. I'm hoping the above has a lot of functionality to get some cool generative sounds and rhythms going.

Is there anything I'm missing?
Are there any major redundancies?
Do you have any suggestions for alternate modules to that will help lower the price?
Do you have any suggestions on the organization in how it might relate to workflow?

Thanks so much, I'm really excited to go down this road. This pricey, pricey road.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1679044.jpg