Thanks for the module recos but I think in my case I don't anticipate bringing in signals that much – famous last words in modular, haha. I don't play other instruments, don't have loads of guitars laying around etc. The Sonicsmith looks really good, with all of the extra things it can do.

So with that in mind, I'm thinking about getting a very small and deep (so maybe custom) case for the ES-9 and something like the Sonicsmith - to free up a little HP in the RackBrute and take a bit of load off its power consumption (that ES-9 is a beast). I live in Brooklyn so space is an issue and it all has to fit on my desk!


Ok, thanks Jim. Sounds like I might as well get a module to handle it instead. I can always screw it in/out if I only need it sporadically etc!


I have a bunch of weird things like a kalimba wired to a delay, with a mini jack out, etc that would be fun to get into the rack but don’t want to have a dedicated module to do this.

Was thinking of something like an ART preamp. Is this a terrible idea? What do I need to watch out for/avoid? Thanks!

https://www.americanmusical.com/art-tube-mp-studio-microphone-preamp/p/ART-TMPSTU?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&adpos=&scid=scplpART+TMPSTU&sc_intid=ART+TMPSTU&gclid=CjwKCAiAvOeQBhBkEiwAxutUVAhUj5qbdI91DhENRpTwuDSSdq8a4WY4FTXIT-G1KRzEFmC8vmK_JRoCMi4QAvD_BwE


+1 for the Quadrax and its expander. When I started out, I had no idea how powerful this function generator is, and of course now there are none to be seen anywhere - hopefully some get restocked soon. More powerful than Maths in less HP, with a CV routing matrix under the hood. Course Quadrax + Maths = even better haha


Thank you @troux and thank you, @franq


Thank you, franq - yeah I kinda feel many Krell type patches only scratch the surface in that you’re hearing the immediate signals coming from the randomized AD loop at the heart of a patch like that. You can obviously take that signal and manipulate it in so many ways and still keep it rhythmically related. That’s what I was going for so good to hear your feedback!


Thank you, Garfield and yes, it’s a hybrid system. So far I’ve been relying on VCV for effects but can feel the urge to get some of that in the rack…


Recorded a generative patch that I was pretty happy with, so I gave it a suitably esoteric name and popped it on Soundcloud. Put some detailed patched notes on it in the Patches section:

Here's my current rack (except for the Sport Mod 2 and Junction). It relies on VCV for all effects other than what the Distings offer.
ModularGrid Rack


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This is the rack side of a generative/krell patch I did for a recent contest held over on Colin Bender's Discord, and managed to win 2nd place. I wrote some patch notes for it which I'll paste below. It's a hybrid patch, with the core looping cycle done from there. The track was recorded direct from VCV, I don't use a DAW (believe me, I've tried haha) and I know nothing about mastering etc so forgive the sound...

Can't figure out how to get an image of the VCV side of the patch into this post, maybe this will work: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9LBiCZ5u9KydeAxQA
You can find the VCV side of the patch here, if you’d like to play with it yourself. Don’t forget to trigger the Rampages in order of 1,2,3 to get it going: https://patchstorage.com/the-kolin-krell/

Here's the track:

And here's the nerdy notes:
I’ll cover the core of the Krell first, then try to explain the patch according to how the sounds come in when listening to the recording.

Core AD Loop
VCV: Rampage #1 has smooth random voltage fed into its Rise CV on Channel 1. Rampage #2 has different smooth random voltage fed into its Fall CV in Channel 2. Both of these Rampages feed their output into the Rise and Fall CV of Rampage #3 respectively. First two Rampages are set to long Rise/Fall times. Third Rampage has a shorter Rise/Fall time setting – this forms the core looping A/D engine for the patch. The varying cycles will more or less stretch apart, sometimes coming together in a fast sequence of cycles – you can use these moments to build crescendos.

Pitch & Chords
Pitch comes from a S&H triggered by the EOC, which is then quantized to C Minus, then sent to the ChordCV chord generator module from Aaron Static. The chord notes/pitches are then distributed to all of the voices in the VCV patch. Some oscillators like the Vult ones can accept polyphonic, so they get the full chord other oscillators get one of the four single notes

Clock Division and Distribution
VCV: The End of Cycle output on Rampage #3 sets the clock. This signal is used to time the arpeggiators. This signal is also duplicated then fed into a division of 2, before being fed to a clock divider, with divisions into 16, 32, 64 etc sent into a Teleport module for distribution around the VCV patch. The original EOC pulse and rise/fall is sent to another Teleport and then into the Audio 16 where it gets sent to the physical rack to trigger things there.

Drone 2 (DN-1)
Rack: The track begins with a sound from Drone 2 - a Noise Reap Paradox oscillator being fed pitch from a rack-side S&H, triggered by a rack-side Rampage, which is being triggered from VCV by the Core AD’s EOC clock. The rack-side Rampage’s rise and fall is being modulated by two smooth random voltages from Pam’s New Workout. The audio goes from the Paradox through a Joranalogue Compare 2 for loads of freq mangling, modulated by several free running LFOs from an Ochd, which in turn is modulated by smooth random from the SSF Ultra Random Analog module. That audio is then fed into a Rossum Linnaeus thru-zero variable state filter, with its frequency CV modulated by a warping envelope/LFO from a Zadar. The envelope share has a sharp rise in the middle, which creates a sharp, sudden ‘crack’ in the cutoff filter, these moments are there to add some tension throughout the track.

P1 & P2
Rack: The second sound that appears in the track are two percussion type noises coming from a Noise Engineering BIA and a MI Plaits. The fast triggers are extracted from the aforementioned Ochd using a Ladik Deviator (slope detector). The triggers are crazy fast sometimes so they’re being spaced apart by feeding the trigger into a Turing machine with a Pulses expansion, then taking pulses 1/2 to the BIA and pulses 4/7 to the Plaits. Same signal from the Ladik clocks a Voltage Block that is then used to modulate various parameters in the BIA and Plaits. These percussion sounds then get sent to VCV for reverb via Valley’s Plateau, and each one gets a different flange effect from the Vahalla Supermassive plugin.

Lead Voice
VCV: After a short while, a higher pitched voice fades in. This is a drone that I call the lead because it has no envelope and is not triggered by any clock division. It comes direct from the Krell looping A/D on Rampage #3 (to get the patch moving, you have to trigger the three Rampages manually, so Drone 1 starts to fade in once its AD gets triggered this way).
The Lead Voice is made up of several oscillators, some of which get their own reverb/fx, one with a randomized vibrato and other modulations, some get the full chord, some single notes, to get some kinds of progression moving around. One oscillator, the Basal from Vult, gets the full chord. They all go through a sub-mixer into a single filter & a VCA that’s fed the Rise & Fall from the core loop.

Drone 1 (DN-1)
VCV: This voice is triggered on every 8th division from the Krell EOC but runs through the Branches probability module. You’ll hear this come in at a higher pitch around 1:49 into the track. The drone runs through another Rampage with a very slow fall time, which works with a slow flange and z-massive size reverb from Vahalla to create super long tails, so multiple notes will play while the VCA is open, sounding a bit to me, like an electric guitar.

ARPs 1 & 2
VCV: At around 2:48, the Krell cycles finally start to crash into each other, which starts to trigger the Arpeggios. These get their signals direct from Rampage #3’s EOC, then placed through two signal delays to get them to feel like they’re trickling off the core rise and falls. First Arp is pitched high via a Chirp, with a snappy envelope and low pass gate - same for the other Arp but with a lower pitch, slower envelope and added echo. I wanted the Arps to occupy some of the highs and add interest to help prevent the patch from stagnating.

Drone 3 (DN-3)
Rack: This is the Acid Rain Chainsaw oscillator, freq modulated a little by the Ochd, running through a long envelope from Zadar, triggered by the start of the Fall segment on the rack-side Rampage. It just plays a fixed note.

Cel-1
VCV: Around 4:40 the first Supercell granular voice/effect comes in. It’s triggered at 32 or 64, which was divided by 2 before, so more like 64 or 128 EOCs (If I’m getting that right). It first gets the chord into the Bleak oscillator, which is set to polyphonic, then the signal is turned monophonic via the Orbit module so it can go into the Supercell granulator, which then has a nice loud volume in the mix and lingers for a long time, so acts like a crescendo moment.

Cel-2
VCV: Similar set up to the Cel-1 but pitched lower, and triggers at the same time, so it comes in under the Cel-1 for more oomph.

Cel-3
VCV: This is the big one! Or at least makes Cel-2 the big one, by taking a copy of the chord then passing it through a high pass filter with its own Chronoblob big echo. The envelope that opens this up is made slower than the Cel-2 and the whole thing is triggered x2 longer than Cel 1&2 so you’ll only hear it once or twice in a 15-20 min timeframe, I think.

Arranging
Most of the arranging is programmed with clock divisions to spread out the Krell cycles. The moments when the cycles come together tightly really speeds up the divisions and helps bring in the crescendo moment and activates the Arp trickle sounds. The only things I did in the recording was manually trigger the three Rampages to get it going, then at around 14 minutes, then after the final crescendo, when it started to calm down a bit, turn off the cycle switches on the Rampages and wait for the patch to slow to a halt in its own time before fading down.

Plugins
There are loads of VCV Host modules all over the patch, using various algorithms from the Vahalla Supermassive plugin - which is free. The entire mix is also put through the Rysy filter from Felt.


The Disting could be used to do some mixing, I think, but, you're right, some kind of Turing machine would be good.

-- InvictaRed

Yeah but if you use the Disting for mixing Plaits, BIA and whatever mults, then you can't use the Disting for anything else. The only way I can think of maximizing the 40HP limitation is to throw in another Disting! You'll be reading menus throughout the vacation but you can pretty much do anything with 3 Distings + 2 SD cards full of samples etc (or 1 mk4 and the EX in single mode).

ModularGrid Rack


Yeah these shallow skiffs are challenging. Disting EX won't fit into a Intellijel Palette either, which would've opened up a 1U row also. I think the Make Noise skiff is deeper but dunno if that is taking the bus boards into consideration. Might have to go the custom route!


This is my first comment on someone else's rack so maybe take it with a pinch of salt!

I think Pam's a a nice choice here because I'm assuming you intend to use it to modulate the BIA to extract all them sounds, right? Plus you can self-patch it for 2 layers of modulation. You could maybe shave a few HP with a more narrow 8HP Plaits clone and get a 2HP Turing and wouldn't you need the 2HP left over for a mixer?


ModularGrid Rack

Time for an update on the mostly generative journey. It’s been a blast so far and I’m eternally grateful for the detailed advice - especially yours @Lugia, I constantly return to it as I learn more. As you can see, I’ve deviated on module choice but I’d like to think I’m following the principles laid out earlier in the thread. I’m not at all worried about mis-steps as Covid/chip shortage is driving a thriving used module market - it’s so easy to sell things on at almost new prices.

The rack is an Arturia RackBrute joined 6U and 3U, with the 3U’s side panels reversed so the power modules line up to the left (thanks to Splendor’s excellent pro tip in another thread in this forum).

I’m still following Lugia’s excellent layout, at least in principle. Most mentions of other modules below are in reference to that guiding ‘mega rig’. I’m also using VCV heavily in my patches, especially for effects like the Vahalla Supermassive plugin.

I guess (or hope) the choices are somewhat self-explanatory but to highlight a few things:

The ALM Pip Slope Mk2 is there is a space saving way to get a Krell going with the Rampage should I fancy it, and an extra EOC.

The SSF Ultra-Random is the stand-in for the Wogglebug and Verbos Random Sampling (too big for me right now). I just wanted to try it out since it became discontinued, and Chris Meyer has a series of very in-depth videos on it to guide me.

Disting EX and Mk4 are there to stand in for many of the functions recommended, plus with the EX I can experiment with the SD Multisample, Granulation, 4-drone, Matrix Mixer etc

Been using the Voltage Block like a clocked LFO and plan to get the Ochd to compliment that with its 8 freeform LFOs. Though now I’m getting the hang of matrix sequencers in VCV, might instead replace the VB with ZX8000 Lugia had recommended.

As for modules coming next: I’m on the shortlist for the Sport Modulator 2, so that one is definitely going in at some point, which gives me quite a lot of S&H in the rack (as much as 9!) so I’m excited about that. I intend to add the Nin expander to the Zadar for more modulation. I’ve been using the Doepfer sub-mixer more for CV than audio, so I’m gonna go for the skinny version and get 4HP back. The Doepfer x2 quantizer will probably get replaced by the ADDAC x4 Intuitive for 2HP more at a later date. Also thinking of replacing the TikTok clock divider/multiplier with the Fraction Solum - the TikTok is there to free up more Pam’s outputs for smooth random and modulation, but the Solum’s CV control and flexibility is too tempting.

In terms of how I’m using the rack for patches, I usually use one of the AD loops as the core, or a clock from Pam’s. Also, playing around with rotating clock divisions for arrangement has been a lot of fun - example here (which ironically is not at all generative):

So… Would love to hear your thoughts on what to what to get next, get replaced etc for the eventual goal of a great rack for generative. After the Sport Mod there’s about 21HP left to fill. Of course another case is an option but would rather think about keeping it to the two Brutes for now (living in Brooklyn doesn’t exactly offer a whole lot of space for this stuff). Totally open to replacing anything with anything though.

One area I do find lacking in this rack is mixing/attenuating - not something that’s particularly handled well by using VCV because I don’t want to send signals back forth across the digital divide etc. I’m looking at the 4MS SISM (again, recommended by Lugia) but it doesn’t look CV controllable. Does anyone know of a more programmable way to mingle signals? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the module or maybe being able to CV control mixing is not the big a deal I think it might be…

Anyhow, thanks for reading all of this. I eagerly await some more advice!


by unscrewing the wooden side panels it's possible to "flip" the internal assembly so that the hinge can be mounted on the other side, making the two Rackbrutes in the same orientation again. Definitely something you'll want to do when getting your second Rackbrute!

-- splendor

So good to know, thanks. I can finally put the ES-9 in the far right of the bottom RackBrute!

The screws on the side panels are Torx, right? I've never come across these before. Do you know what size screwdriver you need? Just wanna make sure I order the right one.

Thanks again for this super useful tip - your setup is fantastic.


Read my mind. In fact, I intend to put all the Expert Sleepers modules in the 3U - balances the load nicely.


Yeah I’ve got a 3U on the way and according to Arturia’s website, the 3U has the same exact power rail so all will be well!

Thanks Jim


This will be my current 6U RackBrute, once the Chainsaw arrives. Didn't occur to me to check the power limits and I fear I may be over the 1,600 +12V. (Modgrid says the +12V line is 1,686).

I'm also not sure which is row 1 and which is row 2 - the RackBrute manual doesn't really make this super clear...

I don't have a good understanding of electric power, so I'm not sure if I'm reading the RackBrute manual correctly. If it is over the limit, it's not a huge problem as I'm planning to get a 3U at some point, just not right away.

Far as rack design goes, I'm not going bigger than a 6U and 3U anytime soon because there is not enough space in our small Brooklyn apt! I lean on VCVrack for everything else (VCV Host with the free Supermassive plugin is awesome). The 3U will be mostly about logic and time modulation, but likely a mix of duties, to mix up the power demand I guess.

Anyhow, I digress. Just checking to see if I'm about to encounter some problems. Thanks!


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Ok, here’s the how it’s looking so far. To recap my original post: newbie interested in generative, ‘plays itself while I sort of steer’ compositions. The setup is designed to leverage VCVrack, which is why the ES-9 was the very first purchase.

Still using Lugia’s ideal state as my guide, along with some learning courses by Chris Meyer, his Patch & Tweak book (my bible) and Omri Cohen’s videos for great ideas that make the most of the VCV side.

The focus at the start was VCO + VCF. I added the Disting 4 which has been such an amazing tool to get hands on with so many functions - it’s brilliant. Diverged a little from Lugia’s setup and went with the Voltage Block for CV modulation source. I’m having so much fun plugging it into the Linnaeus every which way. Added some VCAs and the A*B+C, which I don’t fully understand but I know I can use it for more VCAs, mixer, and it gives me a degree of hands-on control over some of the VCV modules.

The new additions are the Rampage and Pam’s New Workout – I think I can also have quite a bit of fun in standalone mode, without the computer. I’m not going to buy any more modules (famous last words) until I fully understand what I have, explore in conjunction with VCV, get an idea of which aspects I want to have hands-on fun with, versus what VCV can take care of. The general approach has been to generate signals in the rack and complete their paths in VCV.

I think the next phase would be to learn how to program generative. The bottom half of Lugia’s layout I do not understand whatsoever, so I want to learn the principles/techniques behind them in VCV and eventually start building some of that into the rack (at which point it’ll surely bust out beyond the 6u case). I love the concept of creating a sequencer by connecting a few modules instead of buying one that does it all for me. The music-friendly generative modules like Marbles and Bloom sound intriguing but I wonder if it removes some of the potential learning if I get anything like that too soon… I expect it’ll take at least a year to get my head around the basics of how the brain works, how to use clocks to spawn a complex sequence etc.

Feedback/Guidance most welcome!


Start with one of the basic oscillator "voice" sections (the Noise Reap one, actually...get used to all of the crossmod and sync possibilities there), plus the stereo submixer and probably the Linnaeus, as it'll have the steeper learning curve.

-- Lugia

Lugia,

I've taken your advice and gone with the Paradox, Linnaeus, and the Sub-Mixer as my first modules (along with an ES-9). The Linnaeus is certainly capable of so many things – just messing around with it is producing crazy stuff.

Would you happen to have any advice on particular techniques for coaxing out some beautiful sounds from this beast? Here's some sounds I got from Paradox + Linneaus (seq, env, reverb via VCVrack)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLEcaCXXZsyFxDvDZ0YSTtEs9z3RD-FK/view?usp=sharing


Again, thank you all so much for the insights.

I think I’ll begin in the VCV zone - put together a Noise Reap style sandbox. Then maybe go for the ES-8 + Linnaeus for the first two modules and spend some weeks/months noodling around.

Cheers!


Ok wow, that's a major amount of feedback – much more than I was hoping for. You've given me a comprehensive research plan and what an ideal state looks like, to work back from so thank you very, very much!

What would be your suggestion for a basic roadmap? Start with the ability to bring in voices from outside the rig, in order to focus on building out (and learning how to use) the brain/control within the rack?


Awesome - thanks for the tips!


Hi everyone

I'm new to modular and having a ton of fun playing around and learning on VCVrack. I also have a Microbrute and a Volca Modular. I'd like to get into generative patches but have very little knowledge so far – maybe a grasp of the most basic principles.

I’ve made a big rack in the hope of stimulating some guidance from some veterans here:
- What would you cut/replace to cut this down to two rows?
- What’s redundant and what's overlooked?
- Is it lacking in utilities?
- Does it help to think in groups of clocks/sequencers, voices, modulators, effects? I tried to organize the rows like a cascading workflow but I’ve probably gotten myself mixed up!
- What modules (in the rack or not) would you recommend getting started with, to maximize generative options and hands-on fun? - Would patching in the Microbrute help fill the gaps?

I’d like the eventual setup to be as hands-on as possible but totally fine with combining virtual and physical modules until I get there - and I expect this journey to last for years…

Thanks in advance!


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