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I'd just say that you'd be surprised how far you can get with just one oscillator or sound source, split the audio off 2-3 ways into different effects or through a Wavefolder etc. I'd suggest any VCO with multiple outs or the MakeNoise STO with its S-Gate will practically let you do a melody line with a baseline all out of the same module.
Options for utilities would be MI's Links & Kinks, the latter has a noise source in the S&H section.

For ambient music, as a second oscillator in addition to the versatile Plaits you can perhaps start with a double oscillator and a waveshaper
A serious cheap option
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-reap-paradox-- (oscillator)
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modulaire-maritime-tarot (waveshaper).
They are the ones I have in mind for my next case extension.

Building on (and agreeing with) what others have said…
1) Get a MI Veils (V2) for a VCA. There is one left in stock at Signal Sounds at this very moment. Do not hesitate, buy it now! Do not think twice, don’t think about import fees if you do not live in the UK. This is a rare and disappearing opportunity, don’t pass it up!
It is 4 VCA’s in 10hp with offset, a huge amount of gain to bring line levels to Modular levels, is DC coupled so can handle both audio and CV. It can sum/ mix and runs 0v to 8v (rather than just 0v to 5v) which is important for some modules (Verbos for example). Again, all in 10hp. It will hold its value in the future.
2) Xaoc Zadar is great for envelopes. It can be dialed up quickly and the envelopes range from simple to more complex and can be attenuated within the module itself. The four separate envelopes match up with the four VCA’s in Veils. All in 10hp.

Good luck!

Yeah I meant there were already built DIY versions available.....

personally I would go with Mutable Veils (2020 version) ... and there are also DIY versions out there.
-- adaris

it's a bastard of a DIY module though not as difficult as some of the other mutable modules - unless you are very experienced at building smd electronics - I would stay away - hopefully ALA will get a full size clone out shortly

EDITED Dec 28th 2022, 02:33

Hey luinnar,

— Buy a Plaits before they are all gone and upgrade it to the latest firmware. You'll hear so many sweet spots in the Orange mode you'll be fine delaying the Cs-L until you have a bigger case (and you can still practice using it for free in your VCV rack anyways). And Plaits offers some noise, drum sources, to cover your concern.

— For ambient, look into Zadar. It is 4 envelopes in 10HP. But instead of ADSR it is 260 different shapes that can be warped, sized, shifted, and reshaped. The length of the shape can go from a tiny fraction of a second up to 30 minutes. And the shapes can be set to repeat infinitely so it's also 4 LFOs. What's really cool about it is that you can use one shape to modulate another. So you can set the first envelope to be warped by the second, being warped by the third and by the fourth. You can make really interesting unique shapes quickly; it's impossible to exhaust and you can save presets if you hit on some good ones. Perfect for ambient stretches that always evolve. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/xaoc-devices-zadar

— Try out the free ALM Tangle Quartet in VCV. It's 8HP and much less cramped than the Doepfer. Intellijel Quad is 12HP so it won't fit your constraints, you'll need to rearrange your rack.

— One recommendation I'd make is to buy Befaco Knurlies. They are little screws you can turn with your fingers. No rack rash. And you can swap modules so quickly and painlessly—I have a big fixed case but also a small portable 64HP, and for Christmas I boxed up some modules and I must have switched things five or six times in an hour playing for my family. I couldn't imagine using a screwdriver.

— I love multis because you can send one cv source to multiple destinations--like a macro control and to keep your modulations tight and musical. Also try the Instruo [1]f in VCV. It is a crossfader, but also attenuates / polarizes a single source, and can offset.

Remember in modular, you can solve every obstacle with a little more space and a little more money. :)

15-20 cables is a good start, but you may find yourself not using more than 10 often. Using your hands to play the knobs is more fun.

That's my advice'ishness.

Agree with Jim, the A-135-2 is not capable of amplification, whereas the Intellijel Quad VCA is, but personally I would go with Mutable Veils (2020 version) if your budget can handle it and you can get a hold of one - I see Signal Sounds still has one available as I type this, and there are also DIY versions out there.

EDITED Dec 28th 2022, 02:16

can't see the rack - so that answer is probably yes

EDITED Dec 28th 2022, 02:33

do you have the correct version of the firmware installed - I'd upgrade to the latest version that your module will allow - I think it's the one just released - but check 1st...

case is weird size if you are actually building it - 84hp or 104hp rails are easier to buy - and a better size - especially the 104...

if you're not building it and buying it just get a mantis ffs - best bang for buck - hp/cost/decent power/manufacturer reputation...

having space to grow into is a good idea - filling (or nearly filling) the case immediately is, well a decision that basically says I am prepared to get a new case almost immediately...

starting small is a great idea, but should be based on number of modules not size of case...

Pam's I don't really case as utility - more modulation source - even if it includes some utilities - but they're a biut of a pain in the arse to use compared to individual untilities - the new pro looks a bit better than the 'new' version, but not that much more

same with the adsr module - modulation source not utility

BUT that's kind of how I (and quite a few others) think about it - see my signature below for hints on how to get the most versatility from your modular for the least cash...

answers:
1 I'd rather have veils - but might be difficult to source unless After Later Audio have released a clone - or the happy nerding 3*vca - either of the ones you have mentioned will be fine, the intellijel one does have gain (ie is actually an amplifier as opposed to an attenuator) so that would be my choice - as amplification is always useful!

2 yes - you do have too many sound sources to start with and too many in the long run in this size case - buy 1 to start with and learn to use it - in your first rack you're probably best off sticking to 1 sound source per row - maybe cram a 3rd in if you go for 6u 104hp - otherwise you will not have space for the modules that you inevitably need to support them

3 again yes - I'd want more modulation sources (which you've lumped in with utils - imo erroneously!) - I'd go for maths if possible - this is a bit controversial though - some people see it as 'too complicated' for beginners - these are often people who do not read manuals or studeously watch youtube videos about their modules and do not want to spend a lot of time 'learning a module' - I say do these things - download the 'maths illustrated manual' and work your way through it many times - deeply thinking about what it is doing - the what, why & how

for utilities I always like to have a sequential switch, attenuators, a matrix mixer (useful for combining modulation sources to get more complex ones) and sub mixers - sub mixers are useful for combining waveshapes from the same vco (the c-sl has a lot of outputs - looks like at least 8 to me, but I don't have one, so idk for definite) - I'd want at least 2 4 channel sub-mixers just or that

I'd also take a look at your end of chain (eoc) mixer - not enough channels for what's in the case already... no send/return

plaits has 2 separate outputs (different versions) not necessarily stereo bit can be used as such (but it also has vca/filter ie an lpg) so you probably want 2 eoc mixer channels for that

BIA has a mono output - so could go into the wasp and then into the eoc

c-sl has 2 halves - again needing sub-mixing = 2 channels - and possibly a stereo filter (doepfer wasp is great & cheap, but mono - maybe 2 of these or add another mono filter or add a stereo filter) - again probably wants another 2 eoc channels

the multi-fx, which I'd replace with an fx aid pro, wants a stereo send/return...

4 I wouldn't worry about a noise source to start with - get one in the future if you need one

5 if you can find reasonably priced mutable modules used (and you can, if you look hard enough, at least some of them) then buy those - otherwise there are some full sized mutable which means they maintain the ergonimics - which is one of mutables strong points - Aftrer Later Audio for example

6 add up all the patch points and divide by 2... a 1/4 to a 3rd of them stackcables (or buy some passive mult module or headphone splitter type things - intellijel hubs for example) - this might seem like a lot - but you will be prepared - and you'll almost definitely forget to buy cables in the future when you buy modules at least a few times

Hi guys!

After almost 2 years of watching YT videos about modular synths, generating some bleep&bloops in VCV Rack I decided to build my own rack... As you know starting with modular is quite complex, so I'm asking you for help.

I'm not a professional music maker, just a hobbyist. I want to start "small" and then dive in. I really like ambient sounds with noisy electronic drums/effects like here or here.

My ideas how to use this:

• Clocking, sequencing, random melodies
  • Pam's - this is very versatile module, it's probably a little too menu diving but having 8 programmable outputs looks great.
  • Marbles - build in bernoulli gate and random sequencer is great for generative patches.
• Sound sources
  • Plaits - almost all newbie racks propositions have it and its sound possibilities are huge.
  • Basimilus Iteritas Alter - this module is crazy, I love this heavy, deep, noisy drums.
  • Cs-L - this is like lessons from oscillation theory I want to take: FM modulation, wave folding, cross-modulation...
• Sound modifiers
  • Wasp filter - it sounds just great
  • Dual FX - for wider sounds
• Utils
  • Pam's - so many nice things in one module: quantizer, S&H, LFO, envelope generator
  • ADSR
  • Quad VCA
  • Mixer & headphones out

Questions/problems:

• I'm thinking about Intellijel Quad VCA instead A-135-2 Quad VCA but deopfer is a cheaper. Is module from Intellijel better than A-135-2?
• Too many sound sources? Should I throw away great Cs-L (too big and to complex for newbie?) and get simpler oscillator (Befaco's Even VCO?) + effect (Dual Drive from Erica Synths)? Or just remove this complex oscillator?
• Am I missing some important utils/sound modifiers?
• No noise source... Should I add something?
• Sadly Mutable Instruments is closed, its better to look for secondhand offers (this modules are beautiful) or for clones?
• How many cables should I buy? ;)

Thank you for all advice!

EDIT: preview of rack looks like "old one", probably some cache.

EDITED Dec 27th 2022, 23:37

How do I enable LFO mode? I have an ALA Beehive. I can put it in color blind mode. But I don't see the "chasing lights" pattern mentioned on the Mutable Firmware page (https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/plaits/firmware/). Also, all settings of the Frequency control still sound like audio range. No LFO. Do I have to do something else after going into color blind mode in order to enable LFO mode?

We really can't have enough VCAs, right? For example for modulating your modulation, but yeah with veils and LPGs you should come a long way.

And a larger Case can also be nice to work with, even if it's more than half empty. I found myself enjoying 6U system with the top populated and the bottom only for input (on the very left) as well as output (on the very right) modules. And a heavier case will really help as soon as your plugging in two, four or even six instrument cables via the bored brain module ;)
Good luck and have fun!

Procrastinating and writing up a small report for the end of the year, feel free to take a look, too and chime in!

What Did I add in the last year?

• The Tesseract Texmix grew four stereo inputs. While I have little Stereo Soruces it has been great to experiment with Mono-to-Stereo Effects I might have been better off with two monos but limitations are good for creative choices
• I added a sampler voice inside the rack, for purists this might be a bit harsh or space waste. But the Squarp Rample (currently still with it's stock sounds) works like a charm, has some live performance perks and is sitting better and better in the mix. I'll also need to consider getting a good pair of midi TRS adaptors for it to be fed with midi signals, too
• Missed Opportunities. Fantastic module, I had to mount it upside down for space reasons inside the skiff but due to the color coded Bananuts I put on it, there is litte opportunity to plug something in the wrong way

Issues I solved:

• Good Repeatable Randomness, which results in more Procedural Drumgroves
• Analog Kicks are cool, but I'm adding a lot more Interest on the Percussions with Rample
• Using FXAid in the A effects loop and Disting in B gives a lot of opportunity to mess with effects and some stereo width

Issues I created:

• I might have too much audio sources and little modulation now
• I REALLY need to check and write down which modules generate and expect what voltages. I'm still doing this blind right now
• Even without knowing all voltages I will need to add an attenuvertion in the rack. Befaco ABC can do that, but ist often used in other places
• Second Filter would be great to play around with the drums, or some light EQing

What is next?

• Due to some weird combinations I'm left with a 5HP gap and one last Power Connector in the top row. I'll probably fill this with a 5HP Befaco Attenuverter
• Keep Making Music and experimenting more with the two Midi controllable devices, hoping they will play well in the future.
• Listening to as well as making more music out of my comfort zone
• Any suggestions?

Yes.

No.

Yes & No.

Personally I think you might be OK with Veils and those 2 LPG's.

This is my rack mainly for dark ambient will sequence with beatstep pro and a sq-1

Do I need more vcas

I ordered a TipTop Audio SD808 to @Ashel1985 and everything fine.
Well packaged and a fast delivery.
Highly recommended seller.

I wish this was real, instead it just sits here teasing me, along with all the other lightstrip prototypes!
-- benirose

Ah I was wondering why I couldn't find any record of it or second hand module! Such a shame

What Jim says! I started out almost year ago and, with his advice, I got myself an Intellijel 7U 104hp case. He actually advised a Mantis, which is much cheaper but has no 1U row. I built a second case (DIY) in the meantime without 1U and I have to admit I don't miss it. I'm using only half of it on the 7U anyway. In any case (haha, get it? case!) a bigger case is very advisable because as soon as you're adding a few modules, you'll curse the fact that you have to buy a bigger one. Might as well get that bigger one right now.

Plaits and Beatstep Pro is what I also started with, and a CEM3340 based analog oscillator. Plaits is a bit of a taster menu. Lots of modes to try out, e.g. a bit of FM, a bit of wavetable, a bit of physical modeling, and so on. When you want to go further, you can get a specific module in that area later on.

yeah - I think that's true to some extent for most people... especially if you aren't moving the modular around too much...

I started with a smallish case (6u 72hp) and was travelling a lot, then moved everything into a mantis - and then expanded back into the smaller case - and now I am stationary and have 9 cases for a total of about 1800hp - just over 6 years or so...

hi
this one is more bug than feature...
if a module does not have an image a MG branded placeholder is shown. it seems that this placeholder does only work for >=18HP.
in case the module is smaller (e.g. 4HP) the image doesn't fit at all and looks like crap:

currently i am building a bunch of DIY modules and i am not able to attach images until those modules are finished. but already planning a new rack with those unfinished modules isn't really an exotic use case, isn't it?

Huge fan of your YouTube series (all of them)!

Thank you for posting this rack!
-- DrFrankenspine

Thank you!

Have you tried this?…

You can assign a cv output on the shuttle control to its own internalized random voltage source; 3 source types listed: randomized, quantized random, and stored random. Check out the Shuttle Control software dropdown menu—https://cargo4.endorphin.es/

All 3 randomized outputs are on an assignable note so all you would need to do in Ableton is press the appropriate note, I think. It might act like a gate. I don’t know.

Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.

Hello earthlings! I am fairly new to modular but have a question for anyone familiar with Ableton and Endorphin.es' Shuttle Control.

I'm creating a live show that uses Ableton plus a tiny modular rack for drum synthesis. All sequencing will be done in Ableton and transmitting midi via USB to the Shuttle Control, which converts it to gate/CV.

Unfortunately, I have found I cannot use Ableton's CV Tools to send CV to Shuttle Control. The only option appears to be using an External Instrument, which is the only tool that provides "Shuttle Control" as an option under the "Midi To" section. With External Instrument I can send triggers by dropping notes on a midi grid, which is great for triggering my Pico Drums.

However, I can't figure out any intelligent way to send CV from Ableton to Shuttle Control — the only option to send CV appears to be by drawing the modulation curve by hand in the Envelopes panel. That sucks because I want to be able to send CV that is randomized, as well as pre-arranged, during my live show. Is there a plug-in or Max device that does this?

If anyone has any know-how on this, I'd sooooo appreciate it. Thank you!

I'd add more rack space, probably at least another 6u 84hp or 104hp - to house more utilities, modulation and filters

Thank you very much for your time! You've stated the inevitable and I was trying to bend principle. Damn it.... perhaps everyone has attempted to confine their monsters in the beginning.

there is no right or wrong way to do things... but you can learn from others experience and advice...

more utilities will give you more possibilities, but I'm not sure I'd necessarily remove stuff... I'd add more rack space, probably at least another 6u 84hp or 104hp - to house more utilities, modulation and filters - there's a lot of sound sources and effects modules in there and not a lot of modulation and utilities - which I'd want more of (and tbh will give you exponentially more versatility in patching than you currently have)

I'd consider swapping the erica dsp for an fx aid pro though - again more versatility - but I'd much rather have more filters, mixers (sub with offsets and matrix), vcas, etc etc etc - see my signature for hints...

I want a rack to make sounds that are Ambient/IDMish to cinematic noise. Sometimes generative.
I’ve owned the SV1B, After Later Eny, Filty, bOSC, DVCA, Black Hole DSP and Serpens Hydrus for around 2 years. My new acquisitions are Pam’s WO, braids clone, Spherical Sounds Vortex and a Qubit bundle deal. The middle 1u row is not owned yet.
Am I doing this wrong? I may punt the Erica DSP and an OScillator for more utilities?

I own:
Make noise 0 ctrl Strega 0 coast
Keystep pro
Beatstep
MPC 4000
MPC 2000xl
Mackie 1604
Lots of pedals connected to a patchbay
DSI Prophet 08
Roland JX3P
Ensoniq TS12
Roland S50
Korg M1R

https://m.

Hi
If you need a patchbay for Leibniz system, just pm me.

Yowza! That's a beautiful rack. Infinite possibilities and ergonomically perfect. Would love to hear something from this.
How do you like the Leibniz system? I haven't quite wrapped my head around that yet.
Thanks for sharing.
-- farkas

Thanks! I have a Soundcloud page here https://soundcloud.com/user-114833897 ... but nothing there really uses more than a row or two at a time (I have a separate Palette 104 case that I use a lot of the time, swapping modules in and out as I work on learning them).

As for the Leibniz... I need to spend a LOT more time with it. I feel like nearly everything I've done with it has basically been trial and error. That's fun, but I need to spend a weekend doing nothing but watching Bries's YouTube videos on the system... I'd like to have a better handle on what is really happening with it. And the system in general really needs XAOC to develop a routing utility of some sort... having to take everything out of the case to move the cables on the back is a pain.

Plaits is a perfect first module. Keystep or Beatstep would be nice addition for controller and starter sequencer
-- 33PO

or the pro versions - looking forward...

I'd recommend starting with a larger case - you will inevitably need it and the smaller you start with the sooner you'll need it!!!

How do you update the firmware on plaits?i have the original
-- Broken-Form
Look into the manual or one of the recent youtube videos, even site with the link for the download directly links to
the update informations.

How do you update the firmware on plaits?i have the original

Yowza! That's a beautiful rack. Infinite possibilities and ergonomically perfect. Would love to hear something from this.
How do you like the Leibniz system? I haven't quite wrapped my head around that yet.
Thanks for sharing.

My 18U system. Still a work in progress, but getting close! The bottom row is for modules I don't have room for (left side) and modules I am considering adding (right side).

Plaits is a perfect first module. Keystep or Beatstep would be nice addition for controller and starter sequencer

Let’s try this again - haha. First time it didn’t share the entire case for some reason.

First case, looking at the Intelligel Palette case as a starter build before getting too crazy. The goal here is to add Melody synth voice as inspiration as well as use the rig to make textures and soundscapes to add to other music. Only locked in module is the plaits as I’ve already purchased one (had to get it in before MI finished up production). Plan to use the Xchanger to pair with my modulation effects pedals to add reverb/delay/echo/swell/etc. I also have a Roland JU106A boutique rig that I could use as synth voice and a TR08 Drum machine, but I’m looking to buy a dfam in addition.

Please let me know sequencer recommendations as well as anything else. Thanks to all and happy holidays!
fuzzmasterstomp

Picture doesn't seem to be showing the updated rack. Make sure to click on it in order to see the latest version.

Howdy folks!

This will be my first modular system ever. I have a couple of synths and know my away around some basic patch architecture, but I'd still like to know what you think. This eurorack is intended to complete my Behringer 2600.

I make mostly techno and ambient/IDM. I don't mind my rack behaving like a normal synth voice, but the main reason for going modular is to open some interesting sound design possibilities. I make music. I'm a composer. This rack is here for the mere purpose of getting interesting sounds that serve the song. It won't be a 'stand-alone/do everything' type of thing. Also, I will not be performing live, so being able to manipulate things on the fly is not a concern for me.

I had to give up my hopes of getting a Synthtech E440 because of lack of hp. I tend towards utilities and multipurpose modules, as you can see from the rack.

Case used is the Cre8audio Niftycase, mainly because of price and Midi to CV conversion.

My other synths include:
-Behringer 2600
-Studio Electronics ATC-1
-Korg MS-20 Mini
-Novation Bass Station II
-Behringer Model D
-Behringer TD-3

Any thoughts are welcome! Thanks!!!

Hi @USSAL,

Here is a suggestion of what you could do. I purposely kept the same case size, power supply, and general vibe that you started with. To me this feels like a fun basic subtractive synth setup. @JimHowell1970 mentioned a lot of good points that needed to be addressed, and I think this example rack takes care of those pretty well for the size of case we're working with. I focused on using similar but more compact modules or ones that provide more functionality than those that were in the original rack. I also added some desirable functionality that wasn't present: mixers, attenuators/attenuverters, S&H/T&H, clock source, slew limiter, noise source, more VCAs, LFOs, envelope generators... and a bitchin' reverb.

There's a lot that I could say about the choices I made, so let me know if you have any questions. But here are some quick notes: The Disting can act as a quantizer or many other utilities that you might find you need. I think it might be difficult to get the original Polivoks filter that you had in the original rack, so I replaced it with Erica Synths' newer one.

I hope some of that helps!
Chace

I included the pedal comments to underscore modulation sources to sounds after the rack…but message received.

that's not the modulation that you seek...

and they're not modulation sources they're modulation effects...

the modulation that you seek is voltages that fluctuate so that you can alter things on modules without using your hands - kind of like magic, but using electricity...

ie lfos/envelope generators/function generators etc + utilities to mix, multiply and mangle them!

Hi Darrell

what sort of sounds were you thinking of? what kind of music do you make, or intend to make?

what case? or at least size and power?

what's your budget?

Jim

Thanks again for the feedback and sound advice. Regarding tidbit audio, they are a small company that make passive doodads that I found on Etsy, here’s a link of them at Knobcon 22:

I included the pedal comments to underscore modulation sources to sounds after the rack…but message received.

Cheers!

Hi Everybody! I'm new here to Modular Grid and would like some advice on what new modules to get. I know that's a really BIG topic, but am interested in opinions, no matter your musical style.
I splurged and bought a Behringer System 55, and also have a Moog Mother-32 and Subharmonicon, which sets me up pretty well for some vintage sounds. I learned on the ARP 2600 (WAY back in the day!) but want to modernize with some present-day gear.

Any and all ideas are welcome....thanks very much!

Darrell Adams

and the link to the actual public rack - not just a jpg!!!

the rack looks like a completely un-thought out random collection of cheap modules with little to no research having been done before hand

and the patch doesn't make a lot of sense...

the output of your quantizer wants to be patched into the pitch input of your vco (or vcos via a buffered mult) and the output of the sequencer wants to be patched to the input of the quantizer!!!

the sequencer needs to be clocked - where is the clock coming from??

you need to open the vca with an envelope - where is this coming from?? where is the gate needed to open an envelope coming from?? or are you just interested in drones? in which case a mixer would be better than a single vca!

no modulation???

no mixing - you have 2 sound sources, but no mixing - no sub mixing to sum the waveforms from the individual vcos, nor to sum the 2 vcos - so both vcos can be filtered

invest in a quad cascading vca - use it for modulation as well as audio!!!

the patchbay is superfluous - ie completely and utterly useless - apart from using more patch cables than needed in a rack this size - maybe in one 5 times the size or when patching between a couple of larger cases it would become useful - but for now what's the point????????

please take a look at my signature... read it, think about it, ask questions based upon it... at the moment you appear to be floundering - like a flounder on a slab waiting to be filleted - not in the sea where it can swim!!!

EDITED Dec 23rd 2022, 20:31

Newbie here what all think

Thanks Jim… I probably should have mentioned I have 2 korg sq1 sequencers and an additional external mixer. I also have a set of utilities (VCA’s Attenuators, LPG passive multiple, micro mixer) from tid bit audio that float around as needed.

usually a good idea - as much info as possible as simply as possible is usually best...

no idea what the tib bit audio thing is could you post a link?

Of coarse I’m trying to be space and cost conscious, and want to get the biggest bang of sonic options for the buck. I can’t be alone in that quest.

probably not but it's a juggling act... the formula in my signature generally gives the most versatility for the least cash, though and scales well from the smallest to the largest modular synths

For modulation sources. I think there’s a lot of possibilities with ochd, swn, maths, rnd…

yes and you need multiples of these - and ways of mixing them together and attenuating and inverting and modulating them...

combining synced, unsynced and a tiny bit of random together in varying ratios gives better modulation than any one of these alone and often they need attenuating and (possibly) inverting

and I can record modulation to morphagene.

but them you can't use it for what it excels at - audio manipulation

The sg1 can also offer modulation as well as the mutable instruments ears clone, Byxa. I also have a berhinger crave cowering nearby, and a couple pedals…microcosm, two stereo loopers and the new boss slice.

do you mean sq1, not sg1? (that's an old sci-fi tv show!!! which could of course be used for modulation)

and the pedals aren't really modulation sources!!! and I don't see anything for interfacing with these - or do you find they work well at modular levels - I have some pedals that do and some that don't...

But I hear you. More utilities!

good... you got the point...

sound sources, modulation sources and sound modifiers are just what they are - utilities are possiblilities!!!

Thanks Jim… I probably should have mentioned I have 2 korg sq1 sequencers and an additional external mixer. I also have a set of utilities (VCA’s Attenuators, LPG passive multiple, micro mixer) from tid bit audio that float around as needed.
Of coarse I’m trying to be space and cost conscious, and want to get the biggest bang of sonic options for the buck. I can’t be alone in that quest.
For modulation sources. I think there’s a lot of possibilities with ochd, swn, maths, rnd…and I can record modulation to morphagene. The sg1 can also offer modulation as well as the mutable instruments ears clone, Byxa. I also have a berhinger crave cowering nearby, and a couple pedals…microcosm, two stereo loopers and the new boss slice.
But I hear you. More utilities!