Musical probability

Hi Everyone

I'd like to create a system that creates chord progressions based on probability.

For example, in the key of C, let's say the first chord is C, then here would be, say, a 40% chance the next chord would be F, a 40% chance it would be G and a 20% chance it would be Am.

Let's say it is Am. Then there might be a 30% chance the next chord would be F, 30% it could be Dm, 20% Em, and 20% of G. And so on.

There are a couple of modules in VCV Rack which can do this but there are no hardware equivalents. One of them uses a Markov Chain which seems a good way to go.

Is this possible in a modular system? If so, can anyone suggest any modules to look at?

Thanks,
Ian

Sorry missed this, but yes - totally doable, but will cost a bit!!

One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.

Set the chords up on Argos Bleak

Set 4 steps, one each to the correct voltage to trigger the chord in Argos Bleak, then set to play on random on Stillson hammer MK][ for 25% probability. To increase the probability distribute the voltages across the number of steps in your sequence - think about what having two steps on the same voltage in a 5 step sequence on random would do to the probability.

Another way would be with Monome Teletype - it would involve creating a look up table for your chords and some programming to determine the probabilities, but probably a few ways to achieve this.

The Teletype will have more fine grain control and precision, the Harvestman will be more 'tweaky' and more fun to play :)

Hope this helps... :)

Oops, forgot to say of course any sequencer will do the job in the first scenario, I was just saying what I personally use to do these kinds of things :)

Wow, thanks. Having trouble locating Harvestman. Is it in the Modules list?

I sort of think a sequencer is cheating :-) but maybe not.

I'll check these out and post back.

Great!

The Harvestman is now IME:

I think this link works:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/browser?SearchName=&SearchVendor=74&SearchFunction=&SearchSecondaryfunction=&SearchHeight=&SearchTe=&SearchTemethod=max&SearchBuildtype=&SearchLifecycle=&SearchSet=all&SearchMarketplace=&SearchIsmodeled=0&SearchShowothers=0&order=newest&direction=asc

If you select each step randomly is it a sequencer any more?

I suggest that in that moment it is not, it is masquerading as a random voltage selector i.e. your source of probability!

Cheating? Hehe... we might have different ideas about what this is all about ;)

Ah, is this it:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/industrial-music-electronics-polivoks-vcg-mkii

There was a smiley after my sequencer comment :-)

Hehe - sure!!

That's a variant of an old Russian Oscillator - not sure what the relevance is here?

Argos Bleak:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/industrial-music-electronics-argos-bleak

Stillson Hammer:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/industrial-music-electronics-stillson-hammer-mkii

These are pretty advanced modules not the easiest to use, but they definitely reward time and patience and then become seriously good fun - definitely amongst my favourites!!

Hehe - sure!!

That's a variant of an old Russian Oscillator - not sure what the relevance is here?

-- Kel_

They were the modules you said you used:
One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.

I'm checking them out and trying to work out how they fit together to do what you do.

Some interesting IME stuff there :-)

Ah...!

Harvestman is the name of the COMPANY that made the modules. I thought it was the name of a module. Doh!

Sorry.

Alles ist klar
:-)

Sorry missed this, but yes - totally doable, but will cost a bit!!

One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.

Set the chords up on Argos Bleak

Set 4 steps, one each to the correct voltage to trigger the chord in Argos Bleak, then set to play on random on Stillson hammer MK][ for 25% probability. To increase the probability distribute the voltages across the number of steps in your sequence - think about what having two steps on the same voltage in a 5 step sequence on random would do to the probability.

-- Kel_

I've had a look at this - at last! :-) - and as best my befuddled brain can gather, this gives each chord a certain probability of sounding. In other words, each chord has its own probability which is in no way influenced by any other chord, particularly the chord that's currently playing.

Is that right?

If not, ignore the rest of this post :-)

What I'd like to try is for the current chord to affect the probability of the next one. Eg, if the current chord is C, then Am might have a 20% chance of playing and G a 60% chance. If the current chord was Dm, Am might have a 50% chance of playing, etc.

Yay, glad you got it :))

Yeah, not sire off the top of my head how you could do the decisions like that exactly, but I bet there is a way in the Monome Teletype! Maybe ask over on Lines.

https://llllllll.co

Another way would be with Monome Teletype - it would involve creating a look up table for your chords and some programming to determine the probabilities, but probably a few ways to achieve this.

The Teletype will have more fine grain control and precision, the Harvestman will be more 'tweaky' and more fun to play :)

-- Kel_

Yes, that is a module all right! :-)

I've read the stuff on the site and watched some YT vids altho not read any of the manuals. Looks amazing. Not gone into it enough to decide if it can do what I'm after but I tend to think if I go down this route I may as well keep the whole thing in software.

Not least of all I can see it would be easy to drop £2K+ before I get off the starting block :-)

I may have to reconsider my musical ambitions :-)

You are correct. There is no doubt that many of these things can be achieved for a fraction of the cost and effort in software! For chords you are almost certainly better off with a computer and a synth that can respond to polyphonic midi.

My personal take on it is that I find software less immediate and I usually work all day on a computer so for me it is worth paying the price of entry into modular to get away from it to make music.

Obviously this is a personal decision that only you can make :)

I would say 2k is a good starter system, either off the shelf or build yourself (I don't mean DIY).

If you are interested in modular, I think rather than trying to go for this specific musical idea, you are probably better off choosing a system (Erica, Make Noise, ALM, Endorphin.es - depending on your musical style preference) for your 2k, knowing you are getting a complete very well thought out system that will give years of enjoyment and exploration, give that a go for a while, learn what the strengths of modular are and then see what else you would like to do.

Whatever you decide I wish you good luck!!

I know what I'm going to do now.

Thank you :-)

Please do tell us how you get on - I for one like to get to the end of the story :)

Please do tell us how you get on - I for one like to get to the end of the story :)
-- Kel_

Like a whodunit with the last page torn out :-)

Well, to be 100% honest, when I wrote that my Neutron had arrived and I was going to give up.

I'm now considering options. Why? See:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=232344

Why not here? Because I use a Chrome extension called Read & Write which, for some reason doesn't work on this site:-(

Okay... bye then!

Enjoy MW and good luck...