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Thank you woeps! I appreciate all of the time you spent helping me. I have some more CV generators, you were very right about that. I got rid of that big fx box. I have this new stuff coming on Wed. I don't want to have more than one case, that will be a money pit for me. Still figuring out where to place stuff in the case so this is the tentative placement.Just doing this for fun. I wanted to have the rack play while I draw in my studio. Might replace maths with the module you suggested. I guess I will sell the used modules on ebay or reverb. Thanks again!

EDITED Apr 29th 2022, 12:11

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing!

start with a bigger case with a better power supply - you'll need it soon enough

start with as few modules as you think you can and learn those inside and out before adding more (and then repeat and repeat and repeat)

the tiptop tg one was afaik limited edition and so probably very difficult to source

if you want some tg goodness see the gristleizer modules from future sound systems

turing machines are often used for pitch - but require quantization

modulation - you'll want more - ochd is a decent start but something that's more controllable - ie triggered from a clock might be a good idea (Pams perhaps as it includes the clock) - as well as envelopes to turn the gate from the sq1 into something more than on/off signals - maybe an adsr module or Maths or Zadar or something similar

I'd also add more utilities - a wide ranging subject - sequential switches, logic, mixers of various sorts, attenuators etc etc - these are what add variety to patching and make patches interesting

see my signature for a philosophy of how to get the most variety from your modular for the least money - utilities tend to be, relatively, inexpensive

hope this helps and have fun

Hi team. I’m looking to get thoughts on this. I want this to be a sample based sound palace. Minimal sources actually generated in this I know. Thinking that a Krog sq1 can act as an external sequencer and clock. Minor modulation / structure with Ochd and 2hp tm. One robust voice with added potential from Mimeophon. Clouds clone and Mimeophon brings the weird…external link to pedals and a lil 4 channel mixer connects to the outside world. Morphagene is the heart of all this with tiptop acting as a supplemental valve. I don’t know if I need the tiptop (though I appreciate Throbbing Gristle a lot)…maybe a filter or something better? I like recording and looping stuff…found sound and vocal bits. Not looking to create highly structured pieces but would like to grab structure when it happens. Anyway…what am I missing, what am I getting wrong…all that.
And thank you.

EDITED Apr 29th 2022, 03:07

I actually have all of the modules in the rack I originally posted and...

Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were just thinking about accquiring these modules.

Now I see the following ways going forward - depending on your (financial) commitment to eurorack:

• Sell some modules on the used market and replace them in your rack (one after another).
• Get a new rack, which is at least twice as large as your current one (13U, 104hp), replacing your current rack. Rearrange your existing modules and fill up "missing" ones gradually.
• Get 1-2 new racks and plan them "in a modular way". Meaning, to have different racks dedicated to different tasks. E.g. first rack holds stuff for drones and 2-3 "ambient voices" (whatever this might be) - second rack holds 1-2 lead voices and drums/percussion - third rack holds complex sequencer, fx, downmix-utilities and controllers
  Rearrange your existing modules and extend the racks as needed.
  If the first (ambient) rack would have a noise-generator and a (simple) osc with some cv, you would already have some inreresting percussive sounds to play with while not necessarily needing more drum sounds (dependent on your desired style). Together with the sequencing-rack, you would have a nice setup, even for a live gig. (Many cases have the posibility to moint 2 of them together.)
• or combine the previously described approaches in a meaningfull way

On another note: You might want to think about your requirements for the drums. Do you really need them in eurorack format or do you enjoy "more traditional" drum sounds? - e.g. you could just use something like a TR-8S
next to your modular. This would be more cost- and place-efficient, than building similar features out in eurorack-format.
Or you could use a Black Box (by 1010 music) as a sampler for drum-duties and sampling in general (but with less modulation options, than if it were a sampler-module). This nice little thing is even compatible with eurorack-levels. Adding a midi-module could enable you to use the box also for sequencing.

I can't imagine what the cable spread would be with 8 cases...lol

-- jb61264

well the longest cables are 3m... bright pink ones from befaco - mostly the 4 biggest sit together on a dining table and the furthest away is video - and in between sit some video modules and some that I use for both video and audio - so mostly stretching cables between the furthest cases is not that big an issue

Some great suggestions by woeps there!

If you're a guitarist with lots of pedals, maybe consider something like the Bastl Hendrikson (there are other brands/models) which lets you use a pedal within your modular setup. I have one and just bought the Empress Effects EchoSystem...lots of fun
-- jb61264

I think that's something like what the OP has been doing - and doesn't like - adding a pedal interface isn't going to make any difference - the Hendrikson seems to be a good module, but wasn't it discontinued a couple of years ago?

Personally I like both approaches - as no OCD when it comes to cables or to having everything spread out - 8 cases means cables all over the place - the more the merrier in my book!

now I really must do some hoovering and relocate my digital piano to the living room!
-- JimHowell1970

My bad, I should have read OP a little closer :) I do believe Hendrikson was discontinued but I was able to find one last year. Just picked up the Echosystem as the first true pedal to interface with it. I only have three cases with cables laying across my Minibrute 2 and Hydrasynth desktop, I can't imagine what the cable spread would be with 8 cases...lol

Thank you woeps!

That is some great information. I will digest some of this and let you know what I come up with. I actually have all of the modules in the rack I originally posted and I am messing around making noise figuring things out. I agree that there are not enough cv generators. I will look into your suggestions. I definitely agree that Doepfer FX unit takes up a lot of space that could be accomplished with a smaller unit. I am not married to any of these modules so I appreciate all of the advice.
Thank you again,
The Tentacle Monster

Assuming wave plane gets tracking issue solved, if not stick with SSL double deka (waiting for Paula to rspond re cal info for steve > tracking +2octanves) also not reflecting talk with suit re more time suite modules need 3rd time buffer new cab? ask- sell KYMA + oberheims )keep steinberger-GM70-D550-MKS70 but sellKurzweils and hjupiter), add 9 more time suite modules - CANT w/o new time buffer board damint

EDITED Apr 28th 2022, 00:54

I honestly feel there's way to many Effects and Soundsources here to be supported by the rest of the Modules, for Example Beads can do a lot of stuff that Mimeophon and Data Bender can do (Plus it can be a Great Sounding Wavetable Voice). I really think the case is too small for all 3. I tried knocking things around a little and also made the Audio Path a little more understandable (to me at least). Top Row is now Effects, Sources, Modifiers, Filter and mixing, while the lower row is pretty much modulation and Utility only (Also notice Tides another Voice in Disguise).
Please consider getting the real deal Mutable Instruments modules in there if you can, they are amazing in
terms of playability (size) plus they'll be gone forever soon and Emilie will surely appreciate a little extra Retirement Money.
I srecon this would benefit from a few more VCA's tho..

PS: Take this with a Grain of Salt. I'm not the most experienced Person on the Planet obviously.

Edit: Just Read you're Original Post more carefully. If you're not too much about all the Modulation possibilities after all, maybe, for what you're trying to do, consider spending your 5000€/£/$ for a hologram microcosm, a Red Panda Tensor, an awesome Delay (maybe Tape?), a Waldorf M or Hydrasynth and a Polyend Tracker or Digitakt and mount them in a nice Case together if carrying is of concern. Because you can. Easily. and then some.

All the Best
Chris

EDITED Apr 28th 2022, 00:28

I'm a fan of https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modulaire-maritime-sindikat

Yup Jim is 100% correct- for utilities I like WMD SSF Toolbox, Mutable Instruments Kinks and Links combo and Intellijel Quad VCA.

Even so, you really needs a lot of modulation sources to make life interesting. Modulation spices up patches and can help filter sound even better!
-- sacguy71

& don't forget the utilities ffs!!!!

utilities = more variation in patching = more interesting patches = less chance of boredom setting in... both in the audio path and for modulation!

get bigger case add modulation add utilities!!!!

EDITED Apr 27th 2022, 18:42

Even so, you really needs a lot of modulation sources to make life interesting. Modulation spices up patches and can help filter sound even better!

For modulation, I like Batumi quad LFO, Quadrax, and Maestro. Those all have lots of modulation features to spice up patches and for me, I burn through modulation like crazy. Take Noise Engineering modules for instance. Noise Engineering modules beg to be modulated with many points for modulation sources. If you have just one, that easily takes up four modulation patch points.

If you're a guitarist with lots of pedals, maybe consider something like the Bastl Hendrikson (there are other brands/models) which lets you use a pedal within your modular setup. I have one and just bought the Empress Effects EchoSystem...lots of fun
-- jb61264

I think that's something like what the OP has been doing - and doesn't like - adding a pedal interface isn't going to make any difference - the Hendrikson seems to be a good module, but wasn't it discontinued a couple of years ago?

Personally I like both approaches - as no OCD when it comes to cables or to having everything spread out - 8 cases means cables all over the place - the more the merrier in my book!

now I really must do some hoovering and relocate my digital piano to the living room!

Hi Jim

Indeed i was wondering if the poly2 would be able to do so but apparently it won't.

I will have a look at shifty.

Thanks

If you're a guitarist with lots of pedals, maybe consider something like the Bastl Hendrikson (there are other brands/models) which lets you use a pedal within your modular setup. I have one and just bought the Empress Effects EchoSystem...lots of fun

Hi Jim

Thanks so much for the detailed answer. I think I need to go back to the books and the tutorial videos! I've always liked the look of the Doepfer gear. Seems they offer a lot of value in simple units.

I'll also take a look out for Stages

Russ

Obligatory: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3579 . The "polyphony" part is important here.

Honestly, I don't think this system would be all that much fun to play with - you barely have enough modulation sources to control your STOs' volume, leaving you with one mod source (either the A-140 or one of maths' function generators) and whatever the NK provides for actual modulation of all the possible places you could modulate - the STO inputs, the BIA's and AI's inputs, the filters' frequency and the squawk dirty's other inputs. At this point, once you've gotten a fun patch going, you have zero modulation sources left to actually do anything with that morphagene.

Personally, I'd probably scratch the idea of going for four voices entirely and build for one or two voices and a lot more modulation (and attenuators, VCAs and all the other utilities that come with that :P). If you do want multiple voices, it's probably better to get a standalone synth (such as the dreadbox nymphes) and, if the synth doesn't have one, a MIDI keyboard. You'll have a much more balanced and affordable system.

If you insist on making a polyphonic eurorack, I'd go for voices with a lot smaller foot print - BoBeats' test setup (seen at about two-three minutes in and onwards - the embed doesn't care for the timestamp apparently), for instance, used two Winterbloom Castor&Polluxes and a tiny VCA. I'll try and reconstruct his setup as a modulargrid link later, if I remember to.

Edit: I've reconstructed BoBeats' setup now:
Note that this is still just a very simple four-voice synth without lots of options in terms of modulation or patching, which at least in my book wouldn't justify the (roughly) 2.5k€ price tag when something like the aforementioned dreadbox nymphes does basically the same stuff for less than a third of that.

EDITED Apr 27th 2022, 15:16

please explain how you think the polyend poly 2 will route an arpeggio from the keystep to different instruments...

I don't think it will work how you envision it - perhaps something like shifty would work better?

Hi I've owned mother 32(sold it now) and had some experience with 'traditional' pianos
I've been trying to get to know more about modular synth and found out about niftykeyz
Since I have some experience with keyboard styled instruments, I thought it will be a good idea to start with that

My objective for this build is to make a 4 voice synth (think of moog's grandmother with 4 voice)
I own a beatstep pro, so I don't think I'll need a different clock source or sequencer

I open for suggestions and ideas. thank you.

Hi,

Lately I am having some fun with my arturia keystep arpeggiating atlantis in a very electro fashion style (some 808 and 909 on the background).

I've never really had a think about getting an arpeggiator in eurorack but I am now wondering if there are any good on the market.

Another option would be to pick up a Polyend Poly 2 to route the Arturia arpeggiator signal on different modules.

Anyone having fun with arpeggiators have any suggestions?

Thanks
Ciao
Mat

fx aid does way more than a cathedral... there's 100ish algorithms to choose from - remember to save the pdf of what you've chosen and print it or keep it open on your computer/tablet/phone for easy reference... I updated mine and lost the pdf... so flying blind at the moment!

Modulation and utilities...

modulation:
Stages is great - grab one whilst you can (will be discontinued soon)
Batumi/nin & Zadar/poti are very good
Chaos is useful so something like the nonlinear circuits triple sloth
Random is also very useful - there are lots of random/noise sources out there

A great technique is to mix your modulations together - I like a matrix mixer for this... I;ve got a couple of smaller DIY ones, but if I was doing it again I'd go for a doepfer (or 2) and maybe a 4ms vcam... may do this in the future - either upgrade or add

utiltiies:
sequential switches - the cheap doepfer one is great

mixers of all sorts - matrix and various sorts of unity mixer, with or without voltage control, I tend towards dc-coupled ones as they can be used with modulation as well as audio, but something based on the moog cp3 might work well for you with the semis as it can add a bit of grit...

logic: you've already got a bit in maths, but the joranalogue compare 2 adds another interesting take - many more logic functions and works around windows (so you can set the comparable ranges of the signals, which is a useful feature)

rectification: always useful - I used to recommend the mutable instruments kinks module (as it had this and logic and smaple and hold) but it's been discontinued - there may be stock left, used ones available and there is a clone version - really handy

wmd/ssf toolbox is also really handy - lots of utilitiy functions in a small space (again I think discontinued, but available in stores still)

attenuators/attenuverters/offsets - these are so useful for reducing/inverting and shifting modulation signals around - happy nerding 3*mia would be my first choice these days - but happy nerding is based in the ukraine so no idea on availability

vcas - not just for audio - use them for modulation too

precision adders - want to transpose a sequence - use a precision adder - there are multi channel ones available

HI

That's really helpful thanks. Just watched a demo on the FX Aid and it doesn't do too much more than the EHX Cathedral I'm using atm. That's actually really good to know!

I've looked at the Starlab before. Seems quite epic and quite an investment. Probably worth it though.
I also have a WASP on the way so that's given me confidence in my choice

Modulation and Utilities. Anything you could recommend?

Here's an alternative iteration:

Okay...

I've reverted back to my original, original package based on an Intellijel 7U Performance case. Having more than one box defeats the purpose of this build, so the x2-Doepfer-cases (or similar) idea in not an option. It has to be small so as to be mobile.

The functionality of my Doepfer () system is mostly retained... mostly.

There are some compromises.

I reinstated my original, original first choice for a stereo filter - the MCFx2. It's all anal-log, is reasonably priced, is fairly compact, has built-in attenuverters and can be driven. The Rample does have filters so I figured I could live without the Ikarie for now.

The Monosynth idea is mostly still intact albeit without the Twin Wave II. I replaced it with a very basic noise module. This is a shame. I could I suppose, switch the MCFx2 for the Ikarie and loose the noise module, which would free up space for the Twin Wave.

I've gone for the Cockpit so as to give me volume control over the sub mixers within the system and a headphone socket. However, as with my Doepfer system (see link above), if I swapped the Cockpit for x3 Mosaic output modules, I could defer summing to a line level mixer or audio interface. This would save a little cash, give me more outputs and generally be more useful for my particular purposes.

This system is far more compact than the Deopfer one. The Intellijel case also has more than enough power - unlike the Doepfer - very baaaaad Deopfer. :-P

Speaking of anal-log - I'm going to the loo.

K byeeeeeee

EDITED Apr 27th 2022, 12:05

ok...

so you have 176hp - 5 for the rack wart, 20 for maths and 12 for the quad vca = 139hp spare... plenty of room... for anything...

high end big modules - take a look at the strymon magneto and starlab... magneto also includes a looper and a sampler...

mid priced small modules - happy nerding fx aid (I'd go xl for the extra modulation and slightly better ergonomics) or the newer alm fx module - or the endorphin.es milkyway or the erica pico dsp - most of these are built on the same dsp platform - I'd go for the fx aid myself as its more flexible being updatable - but may be difficult to source due to the war...

lower price modules - there's a few spring reverbs available - frequency central and doepfer come to mind - and a some bbd delays - again doepfer...

personally I think I'd try to stick with the pedals and spend the money on modulation and utilities for the rack... & maybe a different type of filter - wasp or sem (doepfer are decent, especially for the money) or go with (wait for) the fx aid xl...

have fun!

EDITED Apr 27th 2022, 12:55

Perhaps even a looper of some kind

Yep I know about the cables and I don't have an aversion to them, however its the spread of cables that clutters everything as the pedals don't fit in the rack. So by consolidating I'm keeping everything in one place rather than here there and everywhere

I'm looking to add reverb, delay and anything else that gives a sense of depth and space. I have a 6U Rackbrute that has the bottom row free at present. That's 176 and then maybe 60 spare up top. Forgive my slight vagueness but I'm not near it atm

an aversion to cables is not going to be helped by replacing pedals with modules, is it really? - you're just shifting from one set of cables to another and probably more of them as in rack effects want modulating...

but saying that:

what pedals do you wish to replace and how much racks space do you have to house them?

EDITED Apr 27th 2022, 10:59

Hi

Total newb here. I've been messing around with the 3 tier Moogs (Mother, Sub and DFAM). Having lots of fun! As a guitarist also I've been wiring up effects pedals to each one, a simple in and out of the jack sockets. I really like the ability to change the sound of each module whilst still having them sync'd and it makes a huge difference to my sound

It's getting quote messy with different bits of kit so how could I create a similar thing in my rack? i.e where I could route separate modules to separate effects, perhaps in one effect module or a collection of modules with a small-ish footprint. I currently also have a Maths, Marbles and Quad VCA, using the Mother 32 as the primary oscillator.

I know, I know.. my rig is missing so many things but I'm on a tight budget and just finding my way. When I see something for a good price I buy it and figure 'hey, I'll learn to use it properly at some point!'. It's taken me a good 18 months to build up to this point and the main thing for me is to get interesting results fairly quickly. I still struggle with the whole science of modular so any help is appreciated to get some more interesting ambient and musique concrete sounds

Tnx!

Excellent! Thanks for sharing...

Hi,

Disclaimer: I'm a modular novice myself. So take my advice with a huge grain of salt. ;)

In general, I feel like you have too many audio modules and far too few cv-generators & utilities.

I'd like to pass an advice on to you - which I got myself:

• choose a rack-size, which is slightly larger, than you anticipate needing
• have a concept, what you want to achieve: like ambient with occasional drums
• buy and fill up your rack incrementally:
  • think about your most minimal combination of modules for your first "complete voice" and start from there
  • take your time getting to know your modules
  • if you find some specific "feature" missing for your goal, check if you already planned your rack with such a module and add only a (view) single one(s)
  • take your time again fiddeling around
  • revise your plan for the rack, as you gain more experience

I took some time to work out a rack suggestion:

It's quite different from the setup you presented above, so I'll try to lay down my reasoning for the module selection and my thoughts about the rack below:

• I tried to stick to your concept of having a rack for ambient (generative?) music with ocassional drums or different genres in general.
• Overall I tried to find a good balance between hp per module, ease of use, flexibility and functionality
• I kept all the 1U modules you chose: they are quite usefull
• I only selected very view oscillators, a sampler enables you to still mimic more sound-sources
• enough cv sources enable complex movements and automation
• enough fx to create atmospheres and more interesting voices

First row, mostly audio modules:

• BitBox Micro: since the rackspace is quite limited, I feel like a good sampling module - like this - will provide you with the most felxibility: You can use drum samples (save space by not having a couple of percussion specific modules!), layer several sounds to make your arrangements more complex or record cv
• Ensemble Oscillator: You chose this originally, so I kept this. It seems fitting for the task and quite flexible
• Basimilus Iteratis Alter: Oscillator, I also kept this from your original design. Seems fine if you like it: bass, lead, percussion, etc
• Falistri: similar to Maths, but different (and less hp), can be used as sound and cv source, besides all other usefull and versatile features, I like the ring-modulation capability to sculpt your oscillator's sounds even more
• A-132-4: quad exp vca, probably for audio, excellent hp to usefullness ratio, you always need more vcas
• Squawk Dirty To Me: nice digital VCF, selectable filter mode, includes vca, filter mode also selectable via cv
• QPAS: nice advanced VCF, which you already wanted
• Black Quad VCA2: good 4ch vca & mixer, you already wanted

• Switch: filler for empty space to enable more advanced patching

  Second row, mostly cv modules:

• Pamela’s NEW Workout: famouse clock based cv generator, you already wanted, unbeatable

• Ornament & Crime: another power-house of cv generation
• Bloom: generative generator for 2 voices, you already chose this
• ochd: lots of oscillators in view hp, excellent for movement in ambient
• Zadar: deep, quad envelope (and cyclic = lfo) generator for more complex movement
• Pons Asinorum: versatile quad envelope / lfo generator in view hp
• 333: small mixer & mult
• OSD: combine cv in several kinds (3 times) in only 4hp
• A-130-8: 8 lin vcas and mixer in only 6hp, best hp / vca count ratio
• 321: all the necessary cv utilities
• Melotus Versio: very nice effect module you already chose
• Milky Way: nice multi-fx module, instead of your chosen "large" Doepfer fx module I suggest 2 separate smaller ones, you could think about using effect pedals and use the space of the fx modules for something else
• FX Aid XL: another nice multi-fx module with LOTS of fx to choose from (not sure about the current availability though)
• Jumble Henge: innovative mixer for an easy "final" mixdown

What you might find missing (or not?):

• more advanced sequencing
• midi control
• dedicated performance controls
• more random voltage sources

Let me know, what you think about these suggestions.

Best regards,
Woeps

Hmmm

That's my battleship sunk :-(
-- rextable

not really - you just need to rethink a little...

hopefully you weren't intending to buy all of this at once anyway... better to go slowly and learn the modules you have, inside and out, before buying more modules... and then repeating!

so just get a 6u case - start buying modules and as you do put some money aside for the next case...

if you can manage to save ((cost of case/hp) * hp of module) for each module you buy like this - by the time the case is full, the next case is paid for...

you'll probably make a few changes along the way - but that's how it is... and should be... no plan survives contact with the enemy (no matter what the enemy is...

have fun!

Easy purchase from @pawluszyn
Good communication and well packed.

Hmmm

That's my battleship sunk :-(

Okay

Midi module is gone. Replaced with a mult for the Pam's for clock distro. This should in tern free up Pam's outputs for more creative applications I also dropped the Befaco IO - it was pointless given how this case will be integrated into my studio.

Unless people can point out any glaring issues or omissions, I think I'm there design wise.

Thoughts and/or optimisations anyone?

can you please link to your latest public rack (copy and paste the url)

The total power output of the Doepfer P9 PSU3 Case is as follows:

Output + 12 V (mA): 2000
Output - 12 V (mA): 1200
Output 5 V (mA): 4000

The consumption of this system is: 2164 mA +12V | 1025 mA -12V | 0 mA 5V

Is that +12V rail going to be a problem?
-- rextable

yes almost definitely on the +ve rail and quite likely on the -ve rail as well!

you really need to leave 25-30% headroom on each rail to allow for both inaccurate power consumption figures and inrush spikes...

I'd want at least 2800mA on the +ve rail and 1300mA on the -ve rail...

this is the big failing with the doepfer 9u cases - not quite enough power , as they use the same power as the 8u - where the power is sufficient... either find someway to reduce the power consumption or consider 2 * 6u - which will leave you with some expansion space (which is never a bad idea)

Good point!

Okay

Midi module is gone. Replaced with a mult for the Pam's for clock distro. This should in tern free up Pam's outputs for more creative applications I also dropped the Befaco IO - it was pointless given how this case will be integrated into my studio.

Unless people can point out any glaring issues or omissions, I think I'm there design wise.

Thoughts and/or optimisations anyone?

The total power output of the Doepfer P9 PSU3 Case is as follows:

Output + 12 V (mA): 2000
Output - 12 V (mA): 1200
Output 5 V (mA): 4000

The consumption of this system is: 2164 mA +12V | 1025 mA -12V | 0 mA 5V

Is that +12V rail going to be a problem?

EDITED Apr 26th 2022, 15:04

Thanks for looking and for the feedback! Obviously I have a lot to learn, and appreciate the places to look into more. I had heard the terms exponential and linear used with VCAs but couldn't really conceptualize the difference. I had thought of stages primarily as an envelope generator, and it has a variable response that I thought I could get exponential, but was I mistaken? Does it do envelopes differently than something like Maths?

I had not heard about the issues with placing audio modules next to power supplies. Oops! More research and placement experimentation to come. As for other placement issues, my mental map was to have the Pam's and the VCAs near the center with my sequencing and sound sources on the left and sound shaping/modulation on the right, but still playing around with what feels comfortable to tweak in more of a performance setting.

Again, thanks for responding. I so appreciate seeing yours and others' feedback on racks. I know it must get tiring seeing all of us noobs coming in with so little understanding, but I'm grateful for your willingness to share your wisdom!

I typically stay out of the online Behringer discussion, but I agree 100% with everything you've written here. I have an RD8 and VC340, and adore both of them. They absolutely nailed these and several of the other, um, "tributes" that they released over the past few years. But...
The constant vaporware teasing and "R&D" over the last year is annoying. Who runs a company like this? I sympathize with the supply chain issues and all of the obstacles that synth builders are facing at present, but for god's sake just release something or shut up. People still can't get the RD9 that was released a year ago. Even though Uli seems to thrive on the wrong side of the ethical gray area between right and wrong, I was begrudgingly excited about picking up a few more of the clones for a while. I've given up though. Every time I see some new tease, I just scroll right past it. I mean, does anyone really think their teased Polykobol clone is ever going to see the light of day?
I am a synth lover and a synth buyer, but I'm starting to suspect that I'm not the target market for any of this anymore. So, who is the target market for all of Uli's shenanigans? It just doesn't make sense to run a company this way.

cinnamon black to build

servo nor solenoid is not it, I got DC motor, gotta add it

EDITED Apr 26th 2022, 03:50

OK...so a week-ish ago, this listing for this Behringer knockoff of the Buchla Sound Easel voice turns up on here. Everyone's happy and dancing around and so on...but I don't think anyone read the Facebook bit on it, which says:

"We'd love to have your feedback.
We have started to design an “Easel 208” inspired Eurorack version called Enigma. While the analog section is an authentic replica of the original synth, which also includes 14 optocouplers, we plan to add total recall functionality with an OLED display and CC control plus USB/Midi.
We believe we could make this product for US$ 399 retail.
What do you think about the functionality, layout and price?"

OK, so read that again. This is NOT an actual product yet, nor are we likely to see one anytime soon. What IS going on here is that Behringer's throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Put a CGI-rendered pic with it and you can get ANYONE to go into a frothing conniption fit for the duration.

Also, there's zero explanation of what "started to design" means. Are there actual diagrams? Is this "design" a scribble on a cocktail napkin? Did they buy a second-hand Easel and that transaction constitutes the "start" of "design"? Could we possibly, eventually not be told about this stuff UNTIL AND UNLESS B. has them at least in prototyping?

Yes, I like when B. comes out with something synthwise that's a big win. But getting constantly yanked around by the "Tribe" using everyday consumers as their R&D department doesn't seem...well, I was going to say "ethical" but this IS Uli's company we're talking about. Ethics seems to have gone through the same shredder as those litigious dbx and Mackie manuals in Uli's bottom desk drawer.

Uli, if you want market research, HIRE MARKET RESEARCHERS. Don't lead potential buyers around by the nose for months (years, decades, MILLENNIA), taunting them with something you may or may NOT produce. Having a "vaporware production line" is NOT something that should be considered an "asset", and for most companies (yours included, pal), that's eventually a huge liability...if they're stupid enough to have engaged in this sort of sketchy customer relations, which most (IMHO, Korg fits riiiiiight there!) companies are NOT.

Damn, Uli...just learn to STFU for a while, OK? If you tease something you're not going to whip out for a few YEARS, then DON'T DO IT. It doesn't help what rep you have, or might've built up thus far. We already know that the vactrols themselves are a huge stumbling block...and don't expect either Buchla or Tiptop to be selling any of theirs to the likes of your "Tribe". This basically means that you're looking at an uphill slog from having to design the vactrols...just like Don and the gang at Tiptop had to do themselves. Did you or did you not consider this serious technical issue before splatting that CGI mockup and doing the "stealth marketing research" on FB?

Feckin' Behringer...they get things right, like the 2600, the Pro-1 and so on...and then whip right around and give us those ugly-ass "Bolcas" and this West Coast near-impossibility for...uhhh...$400. Company needs to take its meds...and learn a thing or two about the purpose of discretion.

I tried messing with this, but it's got some real problems. For example, there's nothing that can generate envelopes as such. There's a couple of modules that could "fake it" for those, but that's not the right way to proceed. The Abyss Devices mixer is sort of...eh. No info on response curve, but since the VCAs seem to be DC-coupled, we can presume that they're linear. So...no VCAs that are properly-capable for audio unless you had an envelope generator that could do exponential envelopes. But as far as that's concerned...well, see above. Module placement is a real hellscape here, too...it seems like you tried to do the function separation via the two rows, but within them it's a little haphazard. Case in point: the uBurst next to the power supply; putting audio modules in proximity to the power supply has the potential of inducing P/S noise in them. And given that this has a digital module next to a switching-type P/S, with the very real potential of ultrasonic interactions between them, it's not a good idea at all. It might work for the sort of thing you're using it for, but if you try and get too far out of its comfort zone, you're likely to be very disappointed at the results.

One point: if you have to crawl behind/under/on top of a rack or three to work on something, you'll find that a paper hardcopy is far more useful than trying to drag a tablet/phone back there, or trying to contort yourself into a shape that lets you see the screen with the info on it. My routing patchbays in here were ALL worked out on paper, and once things got done, I could tack the "patchbay maps" to the wall by each bay so that the scheme could be referred to whenever needed.

anal-log sounds painful - I'd buy an analog mixer if I were you!!

sub-mixing and attenuation is really useful in the rack - so I'd get some if I were you!

stacked cables should always be kept to a minimum - by chaining them instead of stacking them!

whats the use case for the midi->cv module?
-- JimHowell1970

I am anal-log! :-D

To answer your question: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Keystep Pro's knobs only output midi. The Keystep has a usb midi output and thus I thought the little 2HP midi module was a no-brainer. It's cheap and cheerful and better than nothing. If this is not the case then I can drop the midi module.

I have a more general question for peeps: Is there a way to make CV outputs on the Keystep Pro accessible via Ableton Live?

-- rextable

re:keystep knobs - I'd read the manual - I suspect you'd want both more channels, and a midi->cv converter that works with midi cc - I suspect that the 2hp midi module only works with a single channel of pitch/gate... maybe have a look at the befaco midi thing... but note that midi is stepped 0-127 - whereas a truly analog rotary controller will be continuous within the specified range

the cv outputs should be duplicated in midi - again read the manual

-- JimHowell1970

I think you're right. It was an afterthought really. The encoders on the Keystep are just that - encoders - not smooth knobs. Oh well. That's one less module to worry about :-)