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Kabler:
378881 2x the sssnake DD1060 (thomann)
378880 4x the sssnake DD1030 (thomann)

5 x 5ocm (gul) stackable cables Tiptop (Gear4Music)
Erica Synths Eurorack Patch Cables 10cm 5 pieces Red (g4m)
Erica Synths Eurorack Patch Cables 20cm 5 pieces Black (g4m)

tnp (sammenlign g4m, juno.co.uk og schneiders - andre?):
flame c3 mkII
happy nerding 3xmia
nebulae v2

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 23:30

Thats waaay too kind, but thanks :) At the moment I'm finding getting Stereo audio into the iPhone in a loud enough state harder than it should be. I can get mono in via an iRig 2 adapter that is meant for a Guitar, but as far as i can tell it always comes out as Mono cos of the standard 1/4" Guitar jack socket. I never seem to get a loud-enough recording direct from my mixer without the iRig's pre-amp. I dare say I just need to learn more!

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 08:00

My own personal tastes would be wanting a little more in on-board sequencing so that I can stay-in-the-case as much as possible. I find sequencing via the computer to really pull me out of my hardware zone.

I like Maths. But for the size of this case... it's just too big. You already have the Pip Slope for an AD envelope and the Joranalogue for mixing/VCAs.

I would ditch the Maths and replace it with a Mimetic Digitalis (10HP) and an micro Ornaments & Crime (8HP) and then find a 2HP module of your choosing... maybe a reverb or delay so the Disting isn't always on effects duty.

Agreed on the "module porn"...this has a long way to go before being properly functional. Also, putting a cased/powered synth into yet another case with power is an expensive mistake. If you take the cost of the Doepfer 3 x 168 ($1218 at Sweetwater currently), each hp space costs about $2.40...meaning that your 60 hp M32 costs an extra $145-ish to house in the Doepfer cab. Now, the current street price for the M32 is $649...which, once you add it up, means you'd be paying $794 en toto for it. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me...

Ronin is also quite spot-on on the size of this thing. True, it's convenient to have about 500 hp to build into, but try to NOT fill it up immediately. Fill one row, maybe two, but leave the third (or such) open for expansion, because as you start to work with a "reduced" version of this, you WILL get new/different ideas that need that space. And try and up your functionality per space; for instance, the Erica Black VCA v.2 is 10 hp wide, with one VCA. But if you can move up to a 12 hp space, then you can put in an Intellijel Quad VCA...and four VCAs are MUCH better than one! Especially with a mixer as part of the module. Another example: three buffered mults, but only two VCOs. You really only need one of those, and then only when you're trying to drive more than four (ish) modules with the same CV. Jettison those, and you get back 12 hp. And so on...

I'd suggest stepping back for a hot minute, taking a few deep breaths, and collecting your wits before getting DEEP into some study of similar builds by experienced synthesists on here. You'll know which ones I mean, as they tend to have less in the way of "sexy" modules and a bunch of things that seem boring and pointless (but which aren't!) like attenuators, VCAs, basic mixers, etc. In other words, they're INSTRUMENTS...not light shows. If you're going to drop a wad on something like the above, it's best to know how to drop that wad effectively.

Hey Wishbonebrewery,

Yeah, finally a new track from you ;-) As good as ever, I like that plinky-plonky stuff all right. Don't worry about that still photo, I like it, while listening at your music I have nice sweet time to look at your gear so I don't mind the fact you don't have a video. At the end it's about the music!

And music it is! I am still amazed how you come to these kind of results with relatively less modules. Nice job and I look forward in hearing your next track :-D

Kind regards, Garfield.

My votes here go for Superbooth and Knobcon...basically, the synth Big Shows for Europe and N. America. They tend to be both trade shows and huge meets for the enthusiasts, whereas NAMM is purely a trade show. Synthplex is a bit more of an enthusiast gathering, but they also have a lot of vendor/manufacturer sales at the event as well.

Hi Ronin1973,

How about the Superbooth 2020 in Berlin in April? ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi LutZek,

There are multiple conventions around the world that deal in synthesizer design. You'll find many manufacturers displaying their latest modules, synths, and ideas. You'll also find plenty of users and enthusiasts there as well. I would try to attend a couple of these if I was in your shoes. You'd probably have a lot of fun regardless... because the manufacturers love to talk about electronics!

Some upcoming examples are:
Synthplex 2020
NAMM 2020
Knobcon 2020

Here's a link to get you started:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/articles/biggest-music-conventions-around-world-synthesizer-enthusiasts

Once you acquire knowledge of the dark arts, you'll look back at this build and laugh. It looks nice. But there's no reason to build a system based on one manufacturer. Once you've developed a taste, you'll select modules that YOU like regardless of who makes it.

Start off small and functional. A semi-modular synth like the Mother 32 isn't a bad choice. Then add a skiff or a small case to it with some modules that compliment the Mother 32. You may even eventually outgrow the Mother 32 and that's fine. Just remember you'll be learning as you go... so don't go hog wild at first.

You won't get any serious comments on this build since it's basically module porn.

This one didn't turn out too bad...

"Yeah its a still photo again with a piece of audio behind it! Its all the things in the photo that are making the sounds, Eurorack Synth is all the plinky plonky stuff, then the Roland boutique SH01 is on the sort of noise-wash and the TB03 is firing off (both the boutiques are manually tweaked). Kinda Ambient generative from the Eurorack, as much modulation as my gear will allow, Noise Engineering Clep Diaz playing a blinder in LFO mode, going through 2hp Tune, 2hp Pluck and Bell, Disting on Stereo Tape Delay is a bit nice, Erica PICO DSP and 2hp Verb are the other effects, using the Mutable instruments Veils as a slightly modulated mixer with some slight effects feedback loops. Things brought in and out with the Befaco STmix. Pretty happy with this for a few mins of noodling, time to pull all the plugs ;-) Let me know what you think."

Next purchase is going to be a Monsoon Clouds, then just maybe a Instruo/DivKid Ochd, though almost definitely another source of modulation.

I’m new to EuroRack, I really like Erica Synths sounds so I picked a lot of their stuff. My main question for the pros out there, is this a solid rig? Am I missing anything? I plan on putting this in a Doepfer Case the A-100 (168u x 3 rows). Drones on the top, drums and bass lower right and moog for melodies. I’m into DooM style evil computer type of stuff. I’ll probably name it the Doom Machine lol. If anyone got advice that be great, I would start off with the Mother 32 obviously if I decide to do this. I really want to do this but I know this is gonna be years before it’s done.

Thanks for the input Ronin and Lugia. Those are great points, especially considering I am building this to play live...well just to myself in headphones. I'm only learning.

The grandmother has a modular level output, so it doesn't need to be preamped.

To expand a bit on Ronin...this is a situation where a suitable mixer is pretty essential. Instead of looking at them as a way to combine audio together, look at a performance mixer as a control point where you have several "instrument" patches like the above already prepatched and ready to shift from one to another by bringing channels in and out. This avoids your having to repatch constantly, makes the above concept work for both studio AND live.

However, I have some concerns about the size of the build. To get the above idea to work really well, you'll need to have space for a proper performance mixer, for a few extra modules (notably attenuverters...you can wring a lot of control power out of 'em, even if they're boring and unsexy) to assist in controlling activity in the subpatches, logic and timing modules to complicate the trigger/gate situation, and so on. It's an ambitious idea...but the fact is that 2 x 104 cabs are easy to get and cheap (often as cheap as some higher-end 1 x 104s), or you can add a bit more potential with a 7U cab that gives you some tiles and, potentially, cab integration if you go with Intellijel's 7U 104 hp case.

One last warning...don't think you'll be able to send the Moog's line output back into the Eurorack mixer directly, because you likely won't get a usable result due to the major voltage differences. It either has to be preamped first...or just don't do that, and mix it as per usual along with the modular on a typical small mixer. The latter is cheaper, fyi.

OK, let's answer the easy bits first...no, you can't control the response curve with a modulation signal. But then, that's not a really common musical usage, so you're not likely to need all four of the VCAs implemented in that way. But the response curves DO control response rate...

The difference between linear and exponential, math-wise, is the difference between 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 1, 4, 9, 16, 25. Very related (the second is simply the squares of the first) but not the same, function-wise. When translated to loudness, attack/decay values in linear VCAs rise and fall with a direct, linear relationship to the CV. Go up a volt with your CV, the output of the VCA goes up a volt. But with exponential VCAs, attacks and decays occur more abruptly...at least, as far as a voltmeter is concerned. Since we're talking human hearing here, though, the exponential response of the VCA is a closer match to how our hearing perceives the attack and decay of acoustical instruments, while the linear VCA would just sound like turning a knob up and down UNLESS it's fed with an exponential modulation signal source, such as an exponential envelope gen. So, when you change the response, you're adjusting this factor from the linear relationship to an exponential one, and thence everything in between. Now, why you would adjust this...OK, consider percussion instruments for a sec...

Take a drum...any drum is fine. Hit it with a stick, which gives you the hardest attack. Now a rubber mallet. Then a yarn one. And after that, a soft mallet (the fluffy sort). This is the sort of result you get from turning the response on a VCA from exponential (hard attack, fast decay) to linear (soft attack, easier decay). It's an odd effect, and while some VCAs can do that under CV, most don't. But if you really need this effect, it's actually simpler to send the VCA a modulation signal from a mod source that allows you to shape ITS curve.

Now, as for the Intellijel module...yes, it can act as a mixer. Or two mixers. Or a mixer and a VCA (or two). Or four VCAs. It all depends on how the OUTPUT is patched.

Since the Quad VCA uses an normalized but interruptible mixbus, you can patch an output from OUT 2 and also 4/MIX, and this would give you a pair of 2-input mixers. Or if you need just a single VCA for a certain function, you can take VCA 1's output alone, and then use the 4/MIX output for the sum of the other three VCAs. This is VERY useful if, for example, you have only a couple of audio sources that need summing, but you want some interesting modulation behavior that goes to some other parts of the rig. For that, you'd split out the first two VCAs via their dedicated OUTs, then use 4/MIX as a sum for the audio coming into IN 3 and IN 4. And, since you can change the VCA response, VCAs 1 and 2 in that example can be set to function linearly, while the audio in 3 and 4 can have the necessary exponential response. Versteh'?

It's also worth noting that the Quad VCAs CV inputs work in a similar manner. You have a normalized mult behind the panel (of sorts), so sending a single CV to the top of the input bus will affect all four VCAs simultaneously. But you can also patch different CV/mod signals in with the same sort of arrangement as you find on the module's mixbus. Just remember that these patchpoints have a "priority" to their mult behavior: bottom to top on the CV inputs, right to left on the mix, and any patchcord inserted at the lower/leftmost points will split the mult. Want the same CV on 3 and 4, but not 1 and 2? Simple...send 1 and 2 their own CVs, and send the paired 3/4 a single CV via VCA 3's CV in. Done!

Oh...also, keep in mind you don't have to mix ONLY audio with this (or any other DC-coupled mixer). You can also create complex, composited modulation curves by mixing mod and/or CV signals, and yes, these can also be under VCA control to gradually change voltage levels at the output. This is where the fun starts...

Better?

EDITED Feb 10th 2020, 22:05

Hi Lugia
I sincerely cannot thank you enough for taking the time to post the above priceless advices!
That brought notions i didn’t have and enlarge the scope of my research! Thank you!

I have few more questions which hopefully you know the answers to or guide me if thats ok?

Re vca & specially the intellijel quad vca.
Watching their video on module, tthe presenter goes on about tge fact that it can also serve as a mixer! Which in my modest 84hp would be a godsend it terms of space/functionality ratio.
But can it be a vca & mixer at the time or if cv plugged in, there is a chain or priority order (for lack of better terminology i have) where then ouput 1 for instance will be subject to the vca? I hope i am making sense??

Secondly do the curve knobs control how quick or fast the modulation occurs? (Sorry if this is a silly question)
Could i potentially control this curve with an
Lfo? I cannot picture the cable mapping to do this

Thank you for your time again

You might want to consider a dedicated mixing module. I would start with that and then add in other modules. I would suggest something with a stereo output as well as line level outputs. Trying to find a way to adhoc signals together with each and every patch is going to be difficult and cut into your creativity. Getting signal to a dedicated mixer will be much easier on you creatively.

This is why I never buy used gear online without some sort of intermediary agency, such as eBay or Reverb. In those cases, if you wind up dealing with a "bad actor", the company in the middle can (usually!) sort things out.
-- Lugia

It's a good practice. That's why I like the thread where you can leave feedback on people with GOOD trading habits. I spent over $500 getting two modules built by a guy on this site. I left positive feedback and would recommend him to others.

Well, if there's no brick-and-mortar dealers where you are, there's still ample ways to see what a module does aside of VCV.

First up, many of the MG listings have links to manufacturers, and they have rather detailed info a bit beyond what MG can do, plus some also have VIDEOS via YouTube. These are videos I 100% endorse, as you'll have the designers explaining the functions, tricks, etc of particular modules.

Also, check major dealers such as Perfect Circuit, Schneider's, et al as they also offer content on modules and systems that can be very useful. Stick with the modular-specific dealers, though; while "big guns" such as Sweetwater, Thomann, etc do carry modular gear, informationally you're better off with specialist dealers who know modular first.

A third possibility is to just ask manufacturers a question or two outright if the above two methods aren't getting you the info you want. But before doing this step, check their sites to see if they have user manuals available online. Many manufacturers do provide these in various forms, so it's worth taking a look.

VCV is good for explaining functions in modular synthesis and there's a few modules that DO emulate hardware there, but for the most part VCV isn't the best reference for hardware shopping. It'll give you an idea of what might work for you, but there ARE dissimilarities.

Now, as for VCAs...it's important to remember that there are TWO different kinds of VCAs, and they have two different purposes...

Linear VCAs, which are usually DC-coupled to allow CVs and modulation signals to pass, are for controlling/automating levels of those two types of signals. You CAN use linear VCAs for audio as well, but keep in mind that our hearing perceives apparent loudness as an exponential factor, so linear VCAs will just give a basic up and down to audio voltage levels but not an accurate volume increase/decrease.

To get accurate shifts in VOLUME...you use exponential VCAs. These have a response curve that fits how we hear sound better, because that curve tends to track our Fletcher-Munson responses whereas the linear VCAs are...well, linear in response. Also, exponential VCAs tend to be AC-coupled to prevent DC signals (such as modulation, CVs, etc) from passing. And this is important, as DC sent to an amplifier is not a good thing, and can lead to damage to the amp, your monitors, or both!

Now, there IS a "third" type of VCA, and it's those which can switch between these modes of operation. Some are simpler to use, like Malekko's Dual VCAs, where you have a switch between the two types. But others are more subtle, like the Mutable Veils or the Intellijel Quad VCA, both of which have a circuit that allows you to "tune" the VCA response to any sort of curve between pure linear and fully-exponential. These are useful...but it's important to remember that these modules are designed for both audio AND CV/mod use, ergo there won't be AC-coupling there.

BUT...it IS possible to block DC in other ways, with the very best being transformer isolation and balancing on your outputs. This not only stops DC at the very end of the modular signal chain, but it also isolates the modular from garbage that might be INcoming on your output lines, such as AC ground looping, RF crud, and other types of noise which, yes, can get in via the OUTput and be problematic. Lastly, these modules also drop your modular voltage levels back down to line-level which helps prevent overloading issues at the mixer. Happy Nerding's Isolator is a good choice here...it's small and cheap, but provides all the above plus ground lifts per channel and a master stereo level for your output. Very, VERY useful. And, also, a good example of how you can deal with one module's shortcomings with another strategically-placed module elsewhere in the system.

Kabler:
378881 2x the sssnake DD1060 (thomann)
378880 4x the sssnake DD1030 (thomann)
5 x 5ocm (gul) stackable cables Tiptop (Gear4Music)

tnp (sammenlign g4m, juno.co.uk og schneiders - andre?):
flame c3 mkII
happy nerding 3xmia
nebulae v2

EDITED Feb 10th 2020, 19:10

As I think someone on here mentioned, the Stereo Tape Delay on the Disting is rather nice :)

Hi GarfieldModular,

Thank you for your valuable feedback, you helped me a lot! :). And thank you for spending time on open questions, I appreciate it. I'll contact you in PM

Leszek

Just in case this would save you a few HP https://zlobmodular.com/product/vnicursal-vca/ even if it does look a little like turning those knobs may summon the evil hoards!

Hi Lugia & Garfieldmodular

Thank you both very much for taking the time to respond. Your inputs are so valuable to me.
Thanks for clarifying the mult purpose, i have a better idea now.
As for the vca, yes i am taking this in account for my ongoing build. Having read on this (unless i misunderstood) i picture vca as the equivalent of automations in a DAW, create variations which if i picture right i feel is indeed necessary to bring a rack to life with ‘movements’

On note, I am considering the intellijel quad vca, but must do a bit of research as i would like to maximise hp size vs functionality.
But are there any brands that you would recommend over intellijel? Size?

Yes Lugia you are 100% right in respect to what work for some might not for others. So i am definitely taking the time to learn the few modules i am getting .
Unfortunately i do not have dealers with showroom in the country i am living in..my only way is using vcv!

As for the mixers, the only thing i can think of is size constraints.. but not the builder so it’s just a guess.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond and provide your thoughts on this topic, it does help me a lot!

Hi GregSilvia / Jays,

Well about those mixers that was exactly my point, I don't understand it, so for me, if it would be my rack, it would not be okay. But for the original designer of this rack it's most probably okay. Since I haven't designed that rack, I really can't tell you why those particular mixer modules are in there.

That's exactly one of my points why you shouldn't take somebody's rack design and start with that because you/me/we just don't know what were the thoughts, the ideas and the design principles behind that to come with the rack just like that.

On the other hand there is nothing against it to use somebody's rack and take that as a starting point but I doubt if that's the road you should go. It's up to you of course but I wouldn't do it like that :-)

Please keep in mind the good advice of Lugia as well, he got a few very good points there.

Try to discover for yourself what you want and need. Did you went to a dealer and tried out a few modules, testing them, playing with them? If yes that should give you already a rough indication of where you would like to head at, if you haven't yet, I would strongly advice to go to your (future) dealer and play a bit around with a few modules. Just to get the first practice, experience and impressions and then I think it becomes already a bit easier and clearer where to go along this modular path.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lutzek,

I filled in your survey and if you have questions or like to discuss something you can do that either here or send me a private message.

Good luck with your interesting project, keep us up to date with your results (as soon as you got a first module, please introduce it here) and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Finally, justice prevails. Refunded today. Paypal covered it. Took almost a month and 3 calls. (Paypal's customer service is pretty good).

I hope Paypal sues his PoS ass.

The scammer's supposed name is Ahn Durr, username ambientandambience.

And of course he left me bad feedback...

Case closed

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 23:10

Buffered mults are more like "insurance" these days. They exist because, in past designs, there could be a certain amount of "voltage sag". Much of this was due to bad exponential converter design and/or lower-quality components, but these days many designers have front ends on their fixed CV conversion that minimizes this issue. But notice I said "minimizes"...it doesn't 100% fix it, as you can pile enough destinations for CVs onto the same CV bus that the destination modules will mistrack just like the "bad old days".

Rule of thumb: if you're splitting a CV with a mult that then goes to more than four other modules, you're probably better off using a buffered mult. Even if all of the modules on that bus have really good CV sag figures, if you stack enough of them on that one CV, you'll still be subject to sag eventually.

As for the VCAs...OK, sure, that one user in their YT video doesn't really have them in evidence. And while that approach might work for THEM, it's probably not a good idea. It sounds fine in this example, but let's say you wanted to do something that required both VCA control over audio levels AND over modulation levels. Now you have a problem. It might be nice for some synthesists to have a dedicated cab for a specific sound production method, but the vast majority of us don't have that luxury, and so we recognize that you have to have bread-and-butter modules such as VCAs for the times you might want them. And they are QUITE necessary...boring, yes, but essential. Building a rig without VCAs because they're "boring" and nowhere as snazzy as all those other modules with the blinkylights is sort of akin to building a car without a radiator. Radiators are boring, they just dissipate heat...but just try driving a car that doesn't have one but which does have a water cooled engine. You won't be going very far.

And a word about YouTube as a method of learning modular synthesis...

It needs to be said that there are a few synthesists on YT who absolutely know what they're doing. 100%. But like any other source of information on the Internet, there's also a lot of utter BS and nonsense out there, plus a lot of stuff that's sort of misleading. And this is a case of the latter; clearly, whoever is in the clip is experienced...and what they're using works for their purposes. But this DOES NOT mean that a copy of their rig will be something usable in the hands of someone beginning with modular synths. They have an approach that works, but it's not one that will result in a modular rig that's usable across a wide range of uses.

So, unless you like blowing through a lot of money and experiencing plenty of frustration, it's essential to be very careful about what sources of info are ones that'll work for your specific situation. A much better approach would be to look at a number of builds by a lot of different synthesists and see what elements you encounter that work for you and those which are dead-ends. And one of the biggest dead-ends is to copy a user's bespoke device, built for their techniques and methods alone. Those builds might make for showy YT clips, but they don't help beginning modular users.

For pitch CV it is suggested to use buffered mult but I never noticed a difference using tiptop stackable for splitting pitch cv.

Patching a clock generator into Steppy would work as far as syncing Steppy to a clock. But you have to understand what type of sequencer Steppy actually is. It sends out triggers/gates. Triggers and gates serve very well for percussion or triggering envelope generators. But they contain no information about pitch.

So you would need a sequencer that sends out both triggers/gates AND pitch (CV). Steppy can be part of a note generating set-up... like triggering a sample-and-hold circuit being fed an LFO or random source and then maybe into a quantizer. But that's a little bit beyond the scope of someone coming in at entry level.

I don't want to recommend anything at this point as I don't know what would suit your needs. What a rack needs to function depends on exactly what you want to do with it... which is always debatable.

But in VCV Rack, I would start with:
2 VCOs
1 filter (usually low-pass)
2 ADSRs
2 dual VCA modules (4 VCAs total)
2 Mixers
1 LFO
1 Noise Generator (white, pink)
1 8 or 16 step sequencer
and of course the output module so you can hear it.

Not every patch is going to use all of the things listed. But that's a very basic traditional monosynth set-up. You can get into other module types from there and see what you like as you learn.

Thanks for the reply, you pretty much told me everything I needed. Yes indeed, I have a long way to go in learning about modular synthesis. Basically all I’ve looked into is tiny setups and see what they say is absolutely needed. Unfortunately I still lack the basic knowledge to know what would be needed for me. My thought was it would be easier going hands on and learning the intricacies by using it, after I have acquired all the necessary components. The problem is I’m having a hard time finding out what is exactly necessary for a rack to function. I really appreciate the suggestion about VCV rack though, that may be exactly what I need.

Still actually getting the hardware is a long ways off. I just wanted to see where I was at with my current knowledge and which direction I need to go in learning more. I definitely don’t want to end up with something that will disappoint.

I planned to patch the Solum into the Steppy to trigger that, would that not work? And my biggest concern is you’re saying this setup can’t even produce musical notes on its own? I was hoping Plaits would be the only sound generation I need but I may have misunderstood it’s function. So I should look more into basic wave oscillators and find ways to control pitch as well.

Thanks for the advice, The research continues.

To Expand Moog Grandmother...

01A: MIXED VOICE PLAY OVER TEXTURE LOOP
Arbhar with Phone recordings through Mimeophon
Plaits into Grandmother with grandmother keys
Reverb possible with Disting

01B: TWO VOICE PLAY AND SEQUENCE OVER TEXTURE LOOP
Same as 01A, but Plaits with sequencer and Grandmother with keys
Pre-mix Plaits and Grandmother with Disting

01C: DRUMS (AND PLAY) OVER TEXTURE LOOP
Same as 01A or 01B, except drums with Plaits
Pre-mix Plaits and Grandmother with Disting

02A-C: PLAY/DRUMS DELAY/GLITCH OVER TEXTURE
Same as 01A - 01C, except Plaits/Grandmother through Mimeophon

03A: PLAY OVER TEXTURE DRUMS
Arbhar with Phone recordings to make texture drums
Plaits into Grandmother with Grandmother keys
Either channel into Mimeophon

03B: TWO VOICE PLAY OVER TEXTURE DRUMS
Same as 03B, but Plaits with sequencer and Grandmother with keys
Pre-mix Plaits and Grandmother with Disting

03C: DOUBLE DRUMS WITH GLITCH
Arbhar with Phone recordings to make texture drums
Drums with Plaits
Everything into Mimeophon for glitch, pre-mix in Disting or send L/R

04A: ALL BUS INTO MIMEOPHON LOOPER
Plaits into Grandmother into Arbhar into Mimeophon as looper
Either build Arbhar textures with Plaits/Grandmother and play wet/dry
Or play wet/dry over pre-buffered Phone input

04B: TWO VOICES INTO MIMEOPHON LOOPER
Plaits into Grandmother into pre-mix with Disting
Arbhar (mono) with Phone recordings into pre-mix with Disting
Disting into Mimeophon as looper

05A: FEEDBACK AMBIENT
Arbhar Microphone input or pre-buffer anything
Send L of Arbhar to Mimeophon and R of Arbhar to Mix
Send L of Mimeophon to Mix and R of Mimeophon back to Arbhar

05B: FEEDBACK AMBIENT ALTERNATE (MONO)
Send Plaits through Grandmother into L of Mimeophon
Send L of Mimeophon into Arbhar (in Follow Mode)
Send L of Arbhar int R of Mimeophon
Send R of Mimeophon to Disting to pan, then to Mix
Plaits or Grandmother could alternatively be a separate input into Mix

Here's where I am currently landing with the Palette.

One of my goals with this setup is to have a flexible way to create rhythmic patterns with that fall somewhere between percussion and melodic content. Like a kick drum sound triggered in tandem with a grainy melodic one-shot sample at another pitch, and a third sound (say, a bell-like FM tone) coming from the VCO. The intention here is to be able to create a range of complex voices—with evolving envelopes, filtering, amplitudes, etc—i.e., 'sample fodder' for compositions I've got going in my DAW.

There are two main sound sources (macro oscillator and sampler), a VCF, and a 3 VCA mixer with overdrive. Plenty of hp dedicated to function generators and gates. I want to go deeper with fewer sound sources and have a lot of sound shaping choices available. And the MIDI to CV is in there to sync up with my desktop gear, VCV rack, etc. It would be fairly straightforward to put together simple patches that shift into more textural rhythmic territory, get droney, go percussive, and get melodic and/or arpeggiated.

I compromised a bit on FX, leaning on the MK4 for that, as well as some external gear. My semi-modular offers S&H / slew, noise, analog VCOs, BBD delay, so that will help round things out.

Let me know what you think, and thanks for looking.

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 17:09

Hi Lou, the short answer is no.

Small cases are exponentially more difficult to get anything useful from unless you're experienced in modular and know exactly what you want and need.

Steppy is a gate sequencer and doesn't handle pitch. You'll be reliant on the uMIDI hooked up to a DAW to get any musical notes to this set-up.

I think the two weeks you spent will probably require a few more doing research. It feels like you've added modules you've seen in a video or two rather than learning the basics of functionality when it comes to modular synthesis. This isn't a judgment of you and your abilities. It just feels like you haven't gotten as much out of your research as you're really going to need.

My first thought is for you to download VCV Rack. It's a Eurorack emulator and it is free. Build some patches and some sounds with it. If you can get useful things that sound good to you out of it, you're in a position to begin putting together some hardware.

What you have here will more than likely disappoint you. In your research, you may also want to look at the pros and cons of a "synth-voice" as the starting blocks of a Eurorack build. Then supplementing it with additional modules.

Hey Defragmenteur
Question around the mult- following your example
“For example you could send the sine wave from a pamela channel to modulate Marbles Deja Vu and Rings Damping.”
Can the same result also be achieved with a multiplier such as this: or am i misunderstanding?

https://m.thomann.de/ie/black_market_modular_monomult_blue.htm?o=14&search=1581079950

Thank you your time & help

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 12:58

Thanks defragmenteur.
I understand the need for vca, and previously watched the video you just posted. But looking at his rack in action here:

It feels like it’s doing just fine.. hence my original question.But again i have just started my journey into modular in the last few months so i could be missing something?

Will definitely check the quad.
in terms of mixer is there a more streamlined approach to take?

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 07:51

Hello, my name is Leszek and I am electrical engineer. I would like to try to build my own modules, but in order not to copy the errors of others, I need to know something more about parameters of modules and how you use the synthesizer in general. Instead of asking you dozens of questions I decided to use google form and create a survey. That will help me to get overall point of view. So here I would like to ask if you could support me and complete this survey? If you would like to complete it quickly you can answer single / multiple choice questions – it will take you 5 minutes. There are also open questions but none of them is mandatory (however I would be grateful if you could answer at least some of them).

Here is a link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe4PylOxbnZfGL30MV9hEhnnk5BvVfvmscXdBMuht6MM61Aeg/viewform?usp=sf_link

This is a link to google form, so it is safe.
To have reliable data, I need to have ~100 answers.
Thank you for your support!

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 08:34

Hello all,

First of all, I’d like to say that I don’t know anything about modular synths. I’ve known about them for years but the high price tags have kept me away. But now I’ve decided to get into it and only been researching a couple weeks.

Anyway I would like to see this rack eventually become a reality but I would like some advice first. My main concern is, will it function as far as power consumption goes? I’m still not sure if the case has enough to sustain these modules because it is saying the USB port and the case itself is not meeting power consumption specs. Which doesn’t make sense to me because the 1U row is completely copied from someone else’s setup.
And secondly my concern is will it function as far as an instrument? Are there any redundant or conflicting modules that should be switched out? I would like to keep it as is if it is possible. As far as I can tell from my research, I have all the basic necessities. But would it be more important to add something like sample and hold for example? Also is the Doepfer A-138e necessary? I wanted a good mixer but if it needs to be toned down to a smaller one, I can downsize and drop the arpeggiator for something else. I went for Plaits as the main oscillator with a lot of modulation.
My goal with this thing is to have it as stand alone as possible, with minimal external hardware. Basically I just want to plug speakers in and go. Also I just want it to be a sound machine. Just the ability to make a wide variety of noise, sophistication is not a priority. Other than that, maybe plugging the guitar in for effects and other hardware I was considering is the Arturia Keystep or Beatstep Pro.

I appreciate any feedback or suggestions you may have.

Thanks

This is why I never buy used gear online without some sort of intermediary agency, such as eBay or Reverb. In those cases, if you wind up dealing with a "bad actor", the company in the middle can (usually!) sort things out.

The buffered mult will take a signal (audio or cv) and dispatch it without loss to 1 to 4 destinations. For example you could send the sine wave from a pamela channel to modulate Marbles Deja Vu and Rings Damping.

VCA control amplitude of a signal (audio or cv) thru a modulation source and you definitely need more than one. I suggest a quad mixing/cascading VCA like the intelligel Quad or MI Veils.

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 00:25

I just picked up a Westlicht Performer. I really like how it works for live. I also have a 1010 Music Toolbox... I really don't like it for live work.

You might want to follow Ricky Tinez on Youtube regarding EDM and Eurorack performances. He floats between hardware gear (non-Eurorack) and Eurorack solutions. He might have some sage words of advice if you ask him. He's pretty good at responding to his Youtube comments.
-- Ronin1973

Thanks for the advice. I'll go find him on youtube.

I just picked up a Westlicht Performer. I really like how it works for live. I also have a 1010 Music Toolbox... I really don't like it for live work.

You might want to follow Ricky Tinez on Youtube regarding EDM and Eurorack performances. He floats between hardware gear (non-Eurorack) and Eurorack solutions. He might have some sage words of advice if you ask him. He's pretty good at responding to his Youtube comments.

Hi,

I've had my setup since July 2018 and currently have:
4ms Row Power 40
Piston Honda mk3
Double Andore mk1
Belgrad
Wasp Filter
3xmia
Erica Synths Bassline
Fusion VCA 2
Dual FX
Batumi & Poti
Pico Output

I like my rack alot but I'm looking to expand my rig with effects, utilities and signal processors. I think I could have a lot of fun with the modules I've researched. I currently use stackables as mults but don't mind getting a dedicated mult module.

Rack below. I currently use my rack for drones, stabs and weird noises. I currently make techno with my rack in conjunction with Digitakt, cv.ocd and Analog 4 mk2. I sequence my rack with A4 or Digitakt.

From my choice of new modules, I don't have another vco. I'm a bit on the fence about getting the Erica Synths Stereo Delay and could perhaps put that towards another oscillator e.g. Hertz Donut mk3 or Erica Synths Fusion vco 2. Or even a sampler or looper e.g. Morphagene or Tyme Sefari. I had also considered CV sequencers like the voltage block. The Retro Mechanical Labs module is big but I loved what I heard from youtube. My bench space is quite limited at the moment so would prefer the rack version. Also I could use it with my Digitakt or A4. I have also considered the Geiger Counter instead. I'm also not sure if I need another envelope generator but the Pingable EG looks perfect for techno. That plus Pamela's New Workout could be alot of fun. I had maths before and never really gelled with it. I don't really like the Make Noise module aesthetics.

The 4ms Row Power 40 has a +12V rating of 1.5 mA while my expanded rig is approx 1.3 mA. I'm not sure if that is too close.

EDITED Feb 6th 2020, 14:02

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query with honesty. I much prefer this approach!

Having watched this rack in action on YT and very much liking this kind of music, I used this rack as a foundation for me to understand each module functionality as The user illustrates what it can do.

Indeed i am using vcv to increase my knowledge, i have built modules in the past using reaktor software which perhaps irrelevant here!?

I donot mind the 84hp at all as i am not considering buying a lot even in the long run as
a) money & time required to invest
b) the fact that i will not rely exclusively on an eurorack. Time will tell but i can be very disciplined on this matter!
C) space

My main questions were whether this rack had a lack of utilities such as vca, lfo

I understand pnw & p_c have lfo functions available but i could not see (due to not fully understanding the behaviour of each module) any vcas.. and i am not fully understanding what the mult 1u module serve to in here?

You are are raising query around the mixers! I would like to understand too and hope you can advise if thats ok?

On the 1u layout - i will put the 1u audio io, midi to cv for external hardware, noise tool. In this copied rack you will see the mult but unsure if this is required?

I managed to get my hands on a new 7u 84hp so this is the set space i have.( for reasons mentioned above)

Again i do not intend to buy all modules and blindly put this rack together.
Have studied for the last 2 months with YT video modular synthesis, my first reaction when looking at this rack was : where are the vcas in this??

I only want to use this rack as an example for me to understand the modules , make informed decisions on my way!
The YT videos the user posted put the rack for me in context as serve (for me) as an acceptable approach to learn along vcv.

Help appreciated, thoughts on above questions is much appreciated!
Thank you

EDITED Feb 6th 2020, 13:39

I am building this modular, 4-voice polyphonic, + monophonic, + a subsequent moog embedded in the structure, many modules are already in place but you can always change your mind ...
I state that I use the synthesizer to play and not just to make noises ..
I accept advice and comments of any kind

-- Auik

This patch is a test of ES Dual FX with Channel 1 fed into Channel 2. Metropolis feeds pitch values to Plaits (Vowel & Speech Synthesis algo), and Clock into Tempi to be divided and sent to trigger Peaks Trig 1, Peaks Trig 2, and Maths CH. 4 Trig.

Maths CH. 4 (principal modulation channel in the patch)
- ES Channel 1 CV (Pitch Shift 1)
- Plaits Timbre CV (in this case Species Selection)
- EOC multed to trigger Maths CH. 1 and Function

Maths CH. 1
- Plaits Morph CV (Phoneme or Word Segment)
- EOR to Quadrax Trig 1

Quadrax
- to ES Channel 2 CV (Dry/Wet) via Maths CH. 2 attenuverter and Data

Tempi
- CH. 1 = /4
- CH. 2 = /8
- CH. 3 = /6

Metropolis
- Minor Pent. scale
- 60 BPM

ES Dual FX CV Assignments: CH. 1 = CV 1 (Pitch Shift 1), CH. 2 = Dry/Wet

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsdkBRIREHjWi8tlnY7mUdc_M8hA9w?e=mBWjaQ

EDITED Feb 6th 2020, 06:38

Hi GregSilvia,

Welcome to Modular! :-)

Sorry if this might sound too direct, frank or even insulting, please believe me this is not what I intend. What I try though is making you aware and asking you, are you ready for modular? I just want to make sure that you don't buy something expensive and after a while you are not using it or even regretting it, that would be just a big pity.

In all my honesty, if you copy a rack of someone and take that as a starting point... I am not sure if you are ready for modular yet, are you? Are you really sure of yourself about this? You have to ask this in an honest moment yourself, please.

My point here is, if you take a copy of somebody's rack (and it doesn't matter which rack, for example the one you highlight here above), then you are taking a setup of a rack with the thoughts, planning and ideas of that person but for yourself without knowing these thoughts, planning and ideas this person had in mind. So you start with something you just don't know.

In my opinion, you should do a bit more research and indeed, it's okay to start with the modules used in this above example rack. Study those modules, try to understand them. Test them for example in VCV Rack. At a later stage and before you start buying, have them tested first at your local dealer.

Not sure how much experience you have with synthesizers in common, depending on that, you might want to go backward even a step and get to understand the basic principles of "simple" things like oscillators (VCOs), LFOs, envelopes (EGs or ADSRs), filters (VCFs), VCAs (amplifiers), attenuators and then slowly also move into logic modules, input/output modules, sequencers and the whole bim-bam :-)

But you might have all that, so let's assume you have that experience already or you are working on it and then let's go back to the above rack, let's assume you designed it :-)

It's certainly a nice compact and good looking rack. Some of those modules will get you something fancy, but that might not always be want you need or what you want. I miss in 'your' above rack some basic and classical components like the above mentioned items like envelopes, VCAs indeed, and more basic (or should I say easier to understand modules) LFOs and filters then used here. So you might want to look into that.

Also is the rack completely full, there is no space for future extension and for modular that's a very important thing, keep space free for future extensions. Plan a rack about half full for example, get some experience with it, get to know for yourself what you want, which module types you like, which brands you like and build on that experience extend your rack with more modules.

That having said, get a bigger rack than this. If I remember correctly I have seen messages here in the forum that this Intellijel case (2 x 84 HP 6U + 1U) is anyway sold out so get for example the 2*104 (7U) case from Intellijel (instead of the above rack), gives you a bit more space and allows you to easily extend it with an exact same case.

Looking at the above rack, you have to check those mixer modules, I am not sure what the intention was here but I think you can solve that a bit more elegant by using those 1U utility modules, that's why they are there for :-) And free up some "expensive" 3U space! :-)

So get rid of a few of those "fancy" modules, some of them are good and if you have a big rack why not taking them all? ;-) But you need to know their purposes to serve you the way you want. Rather get some space free for some "simple" basic stuff. Get a standard ADSR for example and indeed at least two VCAs (linear for CVs and exponential for audio; that's a general rule, it's not a must, discover for yourself why this general rule exist though).

That Magneto module, I have that one for a long time in my mind now, but A) I feel it's pretty expensive, is it worth it? B) I do think that's a module for perhaps not seniors but also not for beginners. A good reason for myself why I haven't bought it yet. My advice is to keep this module in mind when you are ready for it but leave it out when you start with modular. You got here a 2 x 84 HP rack = 168 HP, the Magneto is 28 HP that's rounded 17% of your total rack capacity! That's one sixth! Realising that, I would rather use this space for some more classic/basic/simple/other modules than such a fancy module. Don't get me wrong on "fancy module" please, I believe the Magneto is a fantastic module, but just not to start with if you are new in modular.

I think Plaits and STO, if you like them, you can keep them, those are pretty good modules, so that's a good start but please look into all the other functionality you require: LFOs, EGs, VCAs, VCFs, etcetera.

One more thing, the module choice here above is, for my personal taste, a slightly bit too much "digital". Lots of digital modules. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing against a good digital module! But almost only digital modules or at least a very high percentage on digital modules, are you sure that's what you want? I would say for Eurorack, analogue modules are very attractive and give you a bit more classical way of "building a synthesizer" because that's exactly what you do with modular. If you are happy with the high contents of digital modules, well then leave it as it is but my advice would be to focus a bit more (not only, digital is still good) on analogue modules.

I hope you didn't mind me being frank with you, I just want you to avoid to start in modular and then getting disappointed with what you get. I don't want you to leave with a depressive feeling, that's not good either. Modular is extremely fun and good but it requires quite some research and conceptional thinking of what you want to do with your modular system. And don't worry about to make mistakes that's so common within a modular synth, that's half of the fun (okay a quarter then ;-) ).

At first you might be a bit disappointed by a module because it unexpectedly didn't do or give you want you expected or wanted to do but leave it alone for a while and give it a few months later another chance once you build up more experience with the other modules you might have and then try it again and it might give you surprisingly possibilities you wouldn't have thought of the first time you used it :-) That's all possible within modular :-) And then there modules that are straight away from the beginning stars, those are the modules you are really looking for, this initial wow and addictive feeling that you can't live without them, not even a single day! :-)

So if you think you are ready, go for it and enjoy it! Don't be shy and ask if you need to know something.

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Edit: Removed a typo.

EDITED Feb 5th 2020, 21:49

Good to know that they spent a couple extra bucks to reverse power protect it. I wish all manufacturers did that considering that modules are often hundreds of dollars each.

Ronin1973 - I agree with you completely in your description of complex waveform generation.
However, I interpret the name "Complex Oscillator" - with a capital C and O - to be very specific. I assume (humbly), and have always been of the understanding that this term specifically refers to the methods of creating complex waveshapes in the method employed by Don Buchla with his Buchla 259 Complex Oscillator.
photo here: https://modularsynthesis.com/roman/buchla259/259_cwg.jpg
Technically - the creation of a waveform using a basic FM schema of modulator and carrier, with further adjustments using symmetry and wavefolding. As opposed to say phase modulation, multi-operator FM, wavetable synthesis, etc...
I like the tradition and challenges that come with it.
Rubicon2 is a perfect example of the carrier part of this - add a modulator of your choice. Love that it's through-zero.
Even Buchla have evolved their Complex Oscillator - their newer module, 259e Twisted Waveform Generator is digital, and uses bits of of it's own operating code to create wavetables to use as it's modulator! Wish they had a Eurorack version! Probably the closest module we have to this is the Hertz Donut MkIII.
Great statement - "What brush would you like to paint with?" ...well said!

that's what I did. Here is the answer for our grandchildren if they will use google

"It s eed stripe down :)and it is reversed power portected."

got the WMD Performance mixer and I sometimes also put a gate in the level input without a curve, it can sound sometimes a bit plucky but also works depending on what kind of situation and what you like to achieve.
I like the WMD PM especially cause of it two send return and the amount of channels.