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Thanks,
Can you talk me through ‘seeing your signature’ please :)

-- clivevass

it's the smaller text in the box at the bottom of the post, directly below this line

EDITED Jul 28th 2022, 13:03

I can only assume modulargrid is your outlet for being a condescending douche. Anyone with business sense understands that loss of one customer is a signal of others less vocal. As far as the features, I am familiar with what it does. No magic here. Sounds nice but I didn't buy the previous version because of the lack of features. 3 CV inputs without attenuation when you have all that empty panel space. If you'd like to see a similar concept formant filter but with abundant features and good use of space check out Noise Lab Formantic.

I have the Modor formant filter which is a great stereo design and Limaflo Motomouth which is another nice one with a different approach. Both have dedicated, defined formants addressable with CV. Very useful.

link to rack, cos jpgs are shit

it looks like you could do with improving modulation and utilities - possibly the most interesting modules and in lots of ways much more important than sound sources or effects...

see my signature for a rough guide on how to get the most versatility from your rack for the least cash...

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks,
Can you talk me through ‘seeing your signature’ please :)

there are plenty of other modules that'll do those things though aren't there... choose the module that's right for you... positivity, y'know...

Hello Jim, Yes this rack is mostly sound sources and sound modifiers...I have been using the Matriarch envelopes to modulate. It also has attenuators and LFO...so what would you recommend for this rack? I was considering the ZADAR.

I'd probably want at least a decent function generator (I like maths - good learning material available - videos and the 'maths illustrated supplement' - good jumping off points) and a quad envelope generator...

zadar is a great envelope generator - extremely powerful, especially with the nin expander... you might also consider the poti expander for batumi...

I'd also strongly consider a matrix mixer to allow you to mix copies of modulation sources to derive more related (and even more complex) modulation sources...

modulation is one of the key advantages of modular over other synthesisers, make good use of it.... another is utilities - there are a wide variety to choose from, they are incredibly useful for expanding patching both control voltage and audio... see my signature for some hints...

I also have been patching all of my synths (Moog Mother 32 (3) and 2 Dfams and Subharmonicon) into a Mackie 16 channel mixer. I can record each synth separately or I can record a live performance. I use a Focusrite 18i20 and an Octopre for interfaces. I put in the 4ms Mixers in the rack for live playing. I guess that would be my "sub mix?"

do you take your Mackie for live performances?

by sub-mixer I really mean downstream of end of channel - combine different sound sources for filtering and processing, combine differently processed parts for further filtering/processing etc etc etc

BTW, I built custom racks for stacking my 5 Moog units before I got into expanding. I did not want to stack the Subharmonicon on the top so I put it in the 104 case. The Moogs sit next to this rack.

then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to either build an extension or a 6 tier rack then to house the semi rack, or to build a 6u rack to extend the case you have to find room for the support modules that imo your modular desperately needs

As far as sequencing, I use the Mother 32's and I also have a Keystep 37. Thank you for your time.
-- Mooger59

those and the bloom should cover everything - but don't the Moog semis use different scaling? ie not 1v/oct - if so I'd consider something that can convert the Moog sequencer output - iirc disting has an algorithm for this...

Thank you guys, for your feedback.

It would be a real beast if at least one of the adders were not fixed to octaves but variable within an octave, even better, if both channels had a tiny extra knob for fine tuning 1V/oct

Hello Jim, Yes this rack is mostly sound sources and sound modifiers...I have been using the Matriarch envelopes to modulate. It also has attenuators and LFO...so what would you recommend for this rack? I was considering the ZADAR. I also have been patching all of my synths (Moog Mother 32 (3) and 2 Dfams and Subharmonicon) into a Mackie 16 channel mixer. I can record each synth separately or I can record a live performance. I use a Focusrite 18i20 and an Octopre for interfaces. I put in the 4ms Mixers in the rack for live playing. I guess that would be my "sub mix?"
BTW, I built custom racks for stacking my 5 Moog units before I got into expanding. I did not want to stack the Subharmonicon on the top so I put it in the 104 case. The Moogs sit next to this rack.
As far as sequencing, I use the Mother 32's and I also have a Keystep 37. Thank you for your time.

EDITED Jul 28th 2022, 03:48

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:33

1. yes good plan - also take a look at the happy needing 3*MIA
2. clouds is good...
3. both stereo mixing and more vcas - grab a veils if you can... also seriously consider a matrix mixer - leverage your modulation into more interesting territories
4. auto-panning (can be done easily with vcas, though), delays - use 2 different mono delays 1 for left 1 for right (the auto pan them with vcas), different reverbs used subtly on each side to give weird spatial presence

The biggest problem I have right now is, I think, lack of mixing or stereo field. I quickly run out of utility trying to mix right and left channels separately.

then address point 3 first

But I'm not sure what problem I'll have next.

that's half the fun discovery of issue and then work out how to solve the issue...

link to rack, cos jpgs are shit

it looks like you could do with improving modulation and utilities - possibly the most interesting modules and in lots of ways much more important than sound sources or effects...

see my signature for a rough guide on how to get the most versatility from your rack for the least cash...

EDITED Jul 28th 2022, 00:01

I'm sure they're crying...

you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, or a module by it's panel - who know's it might be the best sounding formant filter ever... and you rejected it purely on looks... when it comes to music you should rely on your ears, not your eyes...

"those who are so obsessed with functional density that it borders on a form of self-hatred..."

Yeah, a 16hp panel with most of the space empty.

I don't have to try anything. I just won't buy. I have a formant fetish, own most others on the market, but will pass on this one. So there you go. One sale lost already.

Hi y'all,
Not been here for a while (slightly intimidated by the tech). I've had this setup for a while now, https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1989572.jpg. I get so far with modulation and effects, then I just hit a wall. It sort of sounds OK, but I always feel like I'm missing something. I've also use Ableton, a Korg Volca Modular and Volca drum, and a Shruthie. I think I need something to bring it all together. I've got an Expert Sleepers ES-6 on the way, so that's covered. 4 years ago I signed up for a Cirklon, so I know that could be the answer. But, just the eurorack as a standalone instrument, is it lacking anything? I like to compose LCD Soundsystem type of music. I realise this is a lot of waffle, but it's the nearest to articulation I can get. Please help? Are there any missing pieces? What would you add?

EDITED Jul 27th 2022, 14:34

go on then, mate, you try it...

therefore plenty of modules that have weird layouts, look at the Tokyo tape Music Centre - quite a few of their modules are 14hp or so with a few jacks and knobs at the top ad the rest blank...

I really think the only people who wouldn't buy this module, specifically because of the layout, are those who are so obsessed with functional density that it borders on a form of self-hatred...

So I'm building this rig to do big stereo stuff, both ambient and more traditional:

And looking for opinions. Here's what I'm thinking about:

1. Adding an offset/inverter utility like a tiptop Miso. All my LFOs are unipolar.
2. Adding a sound source to do ambient, with stereo reverb/delay... I hear Clouds is the go-to here?
3. Something to do stereo mixing... or more VCAs and use those?
4. Adding something weird to build up a stereo field. No idea here.

The biggest problem I have right now is, I think, lack of mixing or stereo field. I quickly run out of utility trying to mix right and left channels separately. But I'm not sure what problem I'll have next.

Any feedback very welcome!

Looks more like they LOVE shitty ergonomics. Or more accurately they love anti-ergonomics. If you are incapable to laying out a pcb to be functional and ergonomically efficient then don't bother. Pushing jacks and knobs to the edges is just really lazy planning.

But, hey, you do get a stupid graphic of a face in profile.

I guarantee this panel will cost them potential sales.

Note I read one online review of the HPO that said "that only about a quarter turn of the volume knob is needed to achieve ear-shattering volumes" which is why I'm hoping someone on this forum has real world experience with either of these 2 modules and can comment.

To my knowledge, the achievable volume in headphones depends on the relation between output impedance of the headphone amplifiers and input impedance of the headphones themselves. Low impedance headphones will allow for more current to flow and the volume to be louder, vice versa with high impedance headphones. Check the manual/specs of both the module and your headphone set (and ideally the headphones of the user who complained) and decide accordingly.

EDITED Jul 27th 2022, 11:42

i have a HPO for sale that i dont need after getting a new mixer module

I’ve seen most youtube videos on the continium. While being a wonderfull genious piece of art, I’m find myself not being that much into the music I’m hearing. There’s most often a slight off pitch tuch wich I do not really fancy. I bet it’s really hard to play, maybe lika a violin ? Havent heard much ambient music with it though, most is almost classical type of music, where it’s played like a real instrument.

The Osmose on the other hand, sounds fantastic with the Eaganmatrix in the videos. To bad it got delayed by Covid.

I missed that CME mpe board. It would probably have fit my desk bestter as well 😅 what are you using the MPE with ? This MK88 key will be huuuge. But it did not cost a fortune, and if I can get it going, Im sure it will be great !

EDITED Jul 27th 2022, 05:56

do you mean this...

seems really light on modulation and utilities... more envelopes ad routing options desperately needed!

mixing doesn't seem very well thought out - basically vcas and end of chain... no sub-mixing...

racking the Moog is an expensive way to house/power it - put it back in it's case!

how are you sequencing?

EDITED Jul 27th 2022, 05:04

Isn’t the Bytom simply a switched OR combiner?
-- stripou

Sort of. Most times that you see a typical "diode OR", it's sort of limited in capability as far as inputs are concerned. The Bytom, however, contains three of these sorts of circuit, and you can combine them to create a 12 input OR. Which is a tad silly, but which I can guarantee can actually happen. But the nice thing about the combination switches is that you can switch in and out of incoming pulses with a little creative patching and the use of the link switches, so if you put an output for, say, a shift register on the top output and more typical clocking on the middle, you can cut the clocking for the shift register and have it "hang" while the other clocked modules keep on going.

About the closest thing along these lines that I can think of are several different multi-ORs which can switch between one of two busses. The Bytom's routings, however, offer some interesting potential routings that those can't, such as combining entire busses.

MPE capable keyboards? Yeah...I have and use a CME XKey25, which has the "typewriter key-like" keys. I found that it took a bit of getting used-to regarding the action (or lack thereof), but after a month or two, I got very used to it. The nice thing about the CMEs as opposed to the McMillan controllers is that the CMEs retain a typical black and white keyboard with spacing, etc that we tend to deal with when using most any other MIDI keyboard. The only flaw I've seen is that every once in a while, there'll be a VSTi that needs some prodding to recognize the XKey...but that's minor, fixable in seconds.

The nicest thing, though, is that it fits very nicely in front of my Ableton-labelled computer keyboard. Score one for ergonomics!

As for the Continuum...y'know, I've been tempted once or twice to ask Lippold why it's so spendy, but I haven't. And if I really wanted one of those, though, I could probably dip over to his place (a whopping 20 minute walk from here) and pick it up firsthand...but you'll note that I haven't done either. It's still too academic-composition-oriented for me to risk dropping several thou on an experiment in controllers.

This could've been solved by explaining that you needed the power supply specs. MG tends to show only the module current draws.

https://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=GST40A

That's the spec sheet for the 40-watt brick Intellijel uses.

Hello, this is my 1st post...take a look at this setup. I also have next to it 3 mother 32's and 2 Dfams. I use a Matriarch as keyboard and more resource. I do ambient/progressive music. I humbly am interested in your comments/input. I still have two 104 hp cases above these 3 completed cases (not shown). So 208hp left. Thank you!

EDITED Jul 26th 2022, 20:34

Isn’t the Bytom simply a switched OR combiner?

I just asked on their forum! Waiting on a reply.
-- soggybag

I just asked on their forum! Waiting on a reply.

Big thumbs up! Sounds great.

I haven’t done any scientific experiments only back of napkin calculations.

I bet if you ask Intellijel they have a number. I’m sure they know the current consumption. Why not add it to this database?
-- soggybag

as modular grid is 100% user sourced info: I bet if YOU asked initellijel they might tell YOU and then YOU could update the entry...

EDITED Jul 26th 2022, 16:47

I haven’t done any scientific experiments only back of napkin calculations.

I bet if you ask Intellijel they have a number. I’m sure they know the current consumption. Why not add it to this database?

That's a great start! I love that you went right for the Krell patch. :-) Looks like you have a good set of stuff to start with. Wiggle on!
-- TumeniKnobs

Thanks :)

That's a great start! I love that you went right for the Krell patch. :-) Looks like you have a good set of stuff to start with. Wiggle on!

That bass is thumping my subwoofer pretty good. I can hear various things rattling around my office. :-) Nice track. Cheers!

Yeah the Keith M - but it has ”flat” keys so to speak

looks like there's a $200 little red thing... seems to be the cheapest MPE controller out at the moment (unless it's been discontinued - says out of stock on site)

Yes the Haken takes both Midi and Usb I think.

I’m not shure how the Midi signals from the MK88 will show up to be mapped. The MK88 is on it’s way, I’ll know shortly. The midi settings on it seems very verstile. With one or two foot pedals you would get very many control possibilities. My expectations are high - we’ll se 🤗
-- CAJJO

good luck with that... have fun exploring your new keyboard and the taken module... I look forward to seeing a video posted!!!

Yeah the Keith M - but it has ”flat” keys so to speak - no pianolike keys - and it’s more like a $1000 the ones they sell now…Not many mpe offerings on the market. And, strangely, very few keyboards with poly aftertuch. There’s the Hydrasynth, but I have no interest in paying for that synth to get the keyboard.

Yes the Haken takes both Midi and Usb I think.

I’m not shure how the Midi signals from the MK88 will show up to be mapped. The MK88 is on it’s way, I’ll know shortly. The midi settings on it seems very verstile. With one or two foot pedals you would get very many control possibilities. My expectations are high - we’ll se 🤗

sorry, meant MPE...

iirc you should be able to go straight into the Haken module with midi, no??

I was just searching for MPE controllers, wasn't there a tiny one a few years back? single touch controller, not keys... the small Keith McMillan one looks pretty cool for 200 bucks...

ME keyboards ?

The MK88 has 2 midi out - one could go to daw and one to fh-2…

The Continiums are even more expensive now since Haken moved on to the ”slim”version..

But the Osmose from Expressive e is comming, but I guess it to be at least another year before you can actually by it. It has poly aftertuch and vibrato, and is shipped with the Haken Eaganmatrix synth, same as Continium - seems really nice in the videos.

I just got the Haken eurorack module. Setting up the Eaganmatrix with the poly aftertuch on the MK88 will be a learning experinence wich I’m looking forward to explore. I hope it works out well 😅

Thx Jim ! There is the service manual !

NP - 30 seconds with google!!!

Mmm I’m getting the Midi in expansion for Es9, and it should be able to recieve Midi, send it to the DAW, which can send CV out through ES9 ? But Maybe there’s latency then ?

Still not convinced, you can configure the midi to be midi through though - there's an easy way to find out though - create a post in the Expert Sleepers sub-forum on modwiggler - Os responds pretty quickly!

I'd expect quite a bit of latency if it does work! I think you'd be much better off with the fh-2 as it is designed for what you want it to do!

The Haken Continium is out of my reach, and not really a keyboard.
-- CAJJO

no kidding - eyewateringly expensive... but really cool - my daughter and I played with one a few years ago in a dealer - and then ran away once we saw the price tag!!!

some of the smaller ME keyboards are 'reasonably' priced though...

Thx Jim ! There is the service manual ! Mmm I’m getting the Midi in expansion for Es9, and it should be able to recieve Midi, send it to the DAW, which can send CV out through ES9 ? But Maybe there’s latency then ? I’ll look into it more closer. I wonder how the Midi signals from the Elka will be shown in the ES9 ? The Elka has 2 midi out, and is poly with aftertuch - and you can split the keybord in 6 parts - so there’s possibility for assigning funtions to different modules in my rack. Not really MPE+, but on it’s way. I could bot find a good alternative in any new keyboards. The Haken Continium is out of my reach, and not really a keyboard.

EDITED Jul 26th 2022, 12:00

maybe this: https://picclick.co.uk/Elka-mk-88-Service-Manual-Schematic-Diagrams-schaltplan-schema-144312053111.html

reading the manual for the es9 - I don't think you can use it as a midi to cv module, midi only appears to be used for controlling the internal mixer etc - I think you'd want the fh-2 to do what you want!

@JimHowell1970
I agree the price of the Mantis is a bit special. It's hard to find a case with a competing price and specs. I picked the 7U because the Mantis was out of stock everywhere when I was ordering. For me, even the thought of ever filling a Mantis was a far away dream :-D I looked at DIY back then, but was a bit overwhelmed.

Availability of everything from small manufacturers with global markets is inevitably patchy... patience is a good thing to have (in any niche market!) DIY can be a bit overwhelming, as with any complex endeavour... but it's always good to remember that 99 times out of a hundred, complex is generally just lots of simple bundled up together... and most quoted statistics on the internet are bullshit! hehehe

Glad we're both having fun with our setups.

yeah... it's the only real important thing...

And Lugia is right, your signature (and your ever interesting posts) are a bottomless repository of wisdom.
-- Arrandan

thanks... always appreciated!!!

@JimHowell1970
I agree the price of the Mantis is a bit special. It's hard to find a case with a competing price and specs. I picked the 7U because the Mantis was out of stock everywhere when I was ordering. For me, even the thought of ever filling a Mantis was a far away dream :-D I looked at DIY back then, but was a bit overwhelmed. Glad we're both having fun with our setups. And Lugia is right, your signature (and your ever interesting posts) are a bottomless repository of wisdom.

Anybody using a Elka Mk88 in Eurorack ? It Seems to have many possibilities with poly aftertuch and midi control. Considering using mine with an Es9 to get those cv’s going from midi. Any tips appreciated ! Can anyone help me with the ”service manual” ? The ”user manual” I have.

EDITED Jul 26th 2022, 09:55

woa, thanks.
It is really hard to know everything what is available out there.. so someone with much more high overview is really appreciated.

I have just acquired a Messor compressor by Cosmotronic and I find it amazing. In this short track I'm running the Nord Drum 2 thru it. Clipping/overdrive on the kick is very intentional. More patch info in the video description. Thanks for watching.

have you tried timing how long it takes to fail a few times? this should give you a decent idea...

I think you don’t understand the situation. In these cases the power comes from an external brick that supplies +16 volts. The internal “power supply” is not a power supply. Instead the internal system generates +12v, -12v, and +5v from the 16v input. There is definitely a power cost for this conversion!

Knowing the current draw would be helpful. For example, if you had to replace the brick, if you used current of just the modules in the case you’d be short on power.

In my case, I’m running this case from a battery. I can calculate the battery life from the power used by the modules, but that number isn’t accurate. Battery life will definitely be shorter. If I knew the power consumption of the case I could calculate battery life more closely.

Thrashed out a variation on the initial build...

Mantis cab, as before. But there have been changes.

Top row now starts with a Doepfer A-119 so that you can inject external audio sources into this thing. Then there's a pair of Klavis's wavetable-based dual VCOs, which now gives you FOUR VCOs. Oh, and they've got internal quantizing. So, four VCOs means four VCAs, and that's what the Codex Modulex Veils clone is for here, but it's followed by a six-input panning module that then sets up your stereo chain, plus it allows you to pan/mix two other signals pre-VCF. As for the VCF...I sorta went all-out here and went with a Rossum Linnaeus, which has some crazy-cool features, including thru-zero modulation. After that, two more Veils-type VCAs from After Later, then Beads for some DSP FSU. The Timizoara is after that, next to the TexMix...which now has the PROPER input group so that you can use the Timizoara AND the Rings as 1-in/2-out FX processors via the Master section. The Stereo input group has no level VCAs, no FX sends, etc...but the Mono input module DOES have those, and you really don't need four stereo mix inputs (the build isn't big/complex enough) anyway.

Bottom row begins with the Tempi/Rene pair. Yeah, pair...because the revised Rene and the Tempi have a lot of "behind the panel" hidden functions that let them do a lot more than either module alone. With that there, there's no need for the Pam's and much of the O&_c's functions are also dealt with (like no need for quantizers with the Twin Waves). The Noise Reap uLoaf is a pair of "misbehaved" LFOs that have a "semi-sync" between them...much more complex than your everyday LFOs. And then, the OTHER "DUSG-alike" besides Maths: the Befaco Rampage. Both owe their lineage to the Serge Dual Universal Slope Gen, but the Befaco has some minor differences as well as 2 hp less space requires. After that, a Frap 321 and another After Later dual VCA give you a "manipulation core" for the modulation signals, and then a VOID Dual ADSR gives you two "proper" envelopes. Rings then closes out the row, placed near the TexMix so that you can use it as something of a "tuned space" for short reverbs...with the warpy capability of modulation over a number of parameters that you tend to NOT associate with short room reverbs.

Yeah, this draws out a lot of downright odd and idiosyncratic things...which really will make this build sound and behave more like an integrated instrument. Now, as for the mults...just use inline widgets, stackcables, etc, as there's not really enough space in the build for mults. You need your space in this purely for functionality. Likewise, some other large modules were booted because...large. For example, the Frap 321 actually has a smallscale matrix mixing capability, but it occupies SIX hp as opposed to the 20 hp of the A-138m. And the Morphagene didn't fit at all, but with the Beads onboard, you won't miss it all that much. But yeah, some stuff got cut altogether, others got smaller, and the overall capability went up. Funny how that works in modular...

or maybe they hate shitty ergonomics...
-- JimHowell1970

Like any sensible synthesist should! Although, I'm betting that there's a lot of PC board real estate behind that panel. Formant filters aren't your everyday ol' ladder filter LPF.

Saw the new addition to the sigfile...