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My first Eurorack build, so far contains clones such as Model D, Roland’s System 100m (main/basic modules-6 in total) and cloned versions of a few Mutable Instruments modules (Elements; Clouds; and Rings). Also there are a couple utility modules and a clone of Mutable Instruments Ears.

The E352 Cloud Terrarium seems to be popular for drones, I have seen it mentioned several times in that context. What is it that makes it so good for drones?

-- Exposure

Take a look at ‘Synthesis Technology - E352 Drones N Stuff’, a video by DivKid on YouTube. It's quite explicit.

Nice! That's really right along the lines of having the Main Cabinet as well as a couple of Wings. About the only thing I could thing of changing would be to swap a 1006 for one of the 1047s. That way, you get a stereo pair of Modamps AND Filtamps, and that takes the 1047s down to a stereo pair as well.

This is definitely something I need to consider, also. I have a very fond memory of a concert by David Rosenboom back in 1968 or 69 in which he played this MONSTER 2500 configuration with TWO main cabs and THREE wings. One main was his "playable" with the dual keyboard and some EEG pickup hardware for brainwave control, and the other was for sequencing, plus he also had a telemetry receiver that picked up signals from four different transmitters inside four rather sci-fi-looking columns that audience members carried around in groups with their eyes closed (and, of course, some "minders" to keep people from slamming into the synth). It's definitely part of why I do what I do these days!

Isn't it a beauty. The real ARP 2500 had only 15 modules but this was the perfect case and it didn't come any smaller so I created a monster 2500. :D It is what it is.

You haven't missed it @funbun, we're having supply chain issues and you can still sneak on! 🤣🤣

Seriously for everyone else, real life has intervened as seems to happen nowadays, but I'm aiming to get this out this week. Will update then :)

Well, for starters, that Intellijel MIDI interface is discontinued. They now offer the smaller one in tile format, but if you need something beefier, you'll have to stick it in the 3U row.

From what I can tell, you're looking to build a modulation "auxiliary" cab that also has some FX processing. But limiting yourself to ONLY Intellijel has problems, namely that there's other firms that make similar but better modules for various reasons. For example, you've got an Intellijel Quad VCA. But the topology for that 12 hp module is pretty much the same with Mutable's Veils...albeit that the Veils gives you 2 hp back. When planning a small "mission-specific" skiff, economizing your module sizes without compromising the result (ie: controls that are too tight or too small, overcrowded panels that offer confusing indications, etc). Also, to get a really diverse collection of suitable and interacting modules will probably require more than 62 hp; I would suggest moving up to the Palette 104 instead. Sort of like...(big pause while I rev up the building neurons) THIS:

Bigger, true...but in this case, bigger IS better, as it allows you to build a more comprehensive set of both modulators AND effects.

The "utility" row now has your adders, so no need for that module. It also has your stereo jacks for both input and output, mults, and MIDI port. Then when we get into the tile row, you'll notice a stereo input (fed by 1/4" jacks 1 and 2) and the smaller Intellijel tile MIDI interface (fed from the MIDI port). And then things get interesting; the next thing is a dual noise generator with tilt EQ to alter the noise color. After that is your clocking...an expander gives you four CV ins to the Temps Utile, which I chose over the Pam's because 1) this fits better and 2) if you're looking to ALSO use this as a sequencer, I think it has a better implementation for that. And yes, it can clock and sequence and all that at the same time. Following that is a QuadrATT, which gives you four channels of attenuversion, mixable to a "breakable" mixbus. And then, the stereo out module, which feeds 1/4" jacks 3 and 4.

Then for the 3U row, it looks like this: an SSF Modbox has two CVable LFOs, one of which also clocks its sample and hold, plus it has yet another (uncolored) noise gen and a few other tricks. Then the modulation monolith that IS Maths. After that you'll find a Mutable Veils and a Tiptop MISO...these are intended to work together as VCA control over modulation amplitude and modulation mixing, inversion, offset and more voodoo via the MISO. Quadrax/Qx is next, and then a Make Noise ModDemix gives you a pair of balanced modulators which you can use either to manipulate modulation OR as an audio effect. Then we're into the audio-only effects with a Frequency Central Stasis Leak, which gives you tap-tempo delay, reverb, and chorus, and uses a mono-to-stereo signal path for stereoization. The Purrvrrb emulates a spring reverb, with (again) mono-in and stereo-out. And then the big kahuna there is Mutable's sequel to their Clouds granular module, the Beads. And last, since you'll have three different stereo FX sources, I put in a triple-input stereo mixer so that, if you want, you can mix the FX outputs.

Now, if I stuck to ONLY Intellijel modules here, I clearly wouldn't be able to build this. And this is typical for Eurorack; not all manufacturers have the "perfect" module selection that covers everything, so it's necessary to do mix-n-match stuff like this to really optimize a build. Anyway, this is an example of how I would approach this problem...and actually, it's similar to an actual issue I have in my "modular sandbox", where I've been considering a modulation skiff to fill in a few shortcomings in my 3.5mm stuff (Eurorack, Digisound 80, B.2600, and some other odd things). And this build is something even I would feel at home with...and I'm a fussy SOB about that sort of thing!

EDITED Feb 1st 2022, 01:19

Hi Funbun,

No idea, how you missed that one ;-)

But don't miss this one then, this is the one of 2021 (the one you referred to is from 2020):

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10830

You could check with Troux if you perhaps can add something as well or if the deadline has expired. I hope you can still make it since I wouldn't mind to recognise a few tones from your AE system :-D Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Fatberg,

No news here about the 245t, so let's see. Please let us know the status of your vendor, I hope they have better news than mine :-)

You are welcome and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for posting this. I recently got a regular one in the lottery. The sounds from yours are certainly in the same ballpark. I imagine a side-by-side comparison would reveal some subtle differences.

Hey everyone,
I'm planning to build an addition do my beloved moog sound studio.
I've built something mostly from Intellijel on purpose.
The goal here: have a case that's quite small (Intellijel 4U), allow as much modulation as possible and tempo division(quadrax, quad vca, pamela), and add a bit of flavour (springray, Polaris). The Mafd is an extra module to control DFAM via midi.
What do you think about it ? Is it balanced ? Is there something that's missing that would be handy ?
Thanks for your help !

EDITED Jan 31st 2022, 22:33

Youtube Demo:

mixer focused

Hi,
If you want to know what is drone music have a look to this label:
https://www.dronerecords.de/
A record label and huge mail order catalog.
Thousands of references.
The guy running this label is behind Maeror Tri and Troum.
Have a listen to their productions.
Drone is a state of mind.

We can refer here to the music of bagpipes (wind sounds), Ravi Shankar (string sounds), and the historical works of La Monte Young (‘Trio for Strings’) who is one of Eno's references.
-- Sweelinck

I used to listen a lot of Ravi Shankar and never thought of it as drone music, but I guess you're right and it sometimes get's into drone territory, I'll check out his works again, I enjoyed them a lot at the time. Right now I'm listening to La Monte Young and it sounds superb, thanks for the reference! I've never heard of him before.

The E352 Cloud Terrarium seems to be popular for drones, I have seen it mentioned several times in that context. What is it that makes it so good for drones? I'll try out Lugia's tips, a couple of VCOs and an LFO sounds easy enough, I'll see what I can get out of it.

Hi and thank you - your advice is most welcome :).

I've been using the multi-case setup for some time already (at first it was supposed to be a 40hp FX rack!) and never encountered any issues (including noise). What I like about it is the "workflow" that naturally emerges - keeping you "focused" on the modules at hand (I typically use 2-4 cases running on 1-2 power sockets). By combining cases in different ways you discover some interesting possibilities.

Having said that, I thought quite a few times of moving to a Mantis case and may eventually end up doing it sooner or later. And I also use knurlies :).

I'm curious to hear your comments about the choice of modules (some of which I haven't yet bought, others that I may decide to sell). Just imagine it's all in one box :)

Cheers

EDITED Jan 31st 2022, 13:04

How in the world did I miss this???

Hi,
I'd like to share with you my last jam.
The main pad is made with easter egg from one rings. Ts-L made the bassline layer by the wavefold output too. Drums from Plonk thru C4RBN filter and databender for glitches and repeats. The main melody comes from Plaits, and second one from the other Rings. Effects from desmodus versio, fx aid, and prism. Mixed on Jumble hunge.

Hope you enjoy.

I use mine to either switch modulation outputs between different modulation inputs or vice versa

why do you think you need a buffered mult? how are you sequencing - I don't see a sequencer in the rack... and you already have links... you could probably do fine with a passive mult... there's no need for exact when multing modulation or audio - a tiny bit of voltage droop will be unnoticeable
-- JimHowell1970

thanks,ahh might gonna get a passive mult instead,just to have one in the case other than the links

I use mine to either switch modulation outputs between different modulation inputs or vice versa

why do you think you need a buffered mult? how are you sequencing - I don't see a sequencer in the rack... and you already have links... you could probably do fine with a passive mult... there's no need for exact when multing modulation or audio - a tiny bit of voltage droop will be unnoticeable

I usually see sequential switches being recommended for systems with multiple sequencers.i record straight into reaper through the domixx.

Will order the doepfer today also gonna order a doepfer buffered mult

+1 on Jim's suggestion...and actually, the idea of using piles of small skiffs as a single device has a lot of potential for trouble. For one thing, that rig immediately screams "ground loops!!!". Yeah, even with DC, as the system would really need some extra ground wiring to put everything (wallwarts included) on the same groundplane and even if your power is clean, all it takes is one little grounding issue and noise WILL creep in. Or worse, let's say you have a catastrophic power supply issue in one skiff. This could easily, depending on what's misconnected or what failed, cause problems to other skiffs and their modules if something happened that allowed high-current DC onto a patch cable.

I would suggest dropping some money on a unified setup instead of this method. Fact is, a Tiptop Mantis comes in at $335, it's had LOTS of users over time with a lot of pleased synthesists, and you can join them to make a bigger 4 x 104 hp cab. And it's WAY more portable than the piecemeal one you've got currently; Tiptop even sells a custom gigbag for the Mantis. And with that, you can put together a rig with just one that you could even put on a traytable on a plane and work while you fly. That's neither advisable or viable with the current multicase build.

Without naming any names, quite a few of the modular synth build videos are VERY suspect, especially when it comes to cramming a functional modular into a small cab like a Palette 62, etc. It IS possible, but you really have to know what you're doing before attempting that sort of build. Add the wrong module, and you got bupkiss. A better use for these small cabs is for "mission-specific" builds...such as needing a specialized filter setup for incoming signals that you want to modify in real time.

Now, what I would suggest is to get a synth that's easier to learn on. You've got a Neutron, but I don't think it's quite as clear to work with as my suggestion...which would be to drop $650 on a B.2600. Fact is, the original ARP 2600 was THE educational synth in its day. It's what I learned on, along with many, many others. Even Stevie Wonder used them, with Braille markings, because it was easier to program and play than other modular choices for the vision-impaired. Once you've got some of that experience under your belt, THEN implement that skiff build, but turn it into a support cab for the 2600 that gives you extra modulation, sound generation, etc. That's exactly what my B.2600 is set up for, since I can patch anything with 1V/8va scaling and a positive trigger/gate between it and my Digisound 80 as they both "speak" that language.

But that aside, the 2600 is pretty much goofproof. You've got some internal routings that are prepatched, so you can make racket with it right out of the box, but the patchpoints interrupt those and allow you to do oodles of alternate routings or even patching between synths (like that Neutron). As "starting points", they're still unsurpassed, even in Uli's hands.

We can refer here to the music of bagpipes (wind sounds), Ravi Shankar (string sounds), and the historical works of La Monte Young (‘Trio for Strings’) who is one of Eno's references.

-- Sweelinck

La Monte Young is one of the true masters of drone. His work spans decades, and includes work with John Cale (in Young's "Theatre of Eternal Music" ensemble) who would later bring Young's ideas into the Velvet Underground. It's also worth taking several hours to check his work "The Well-Tuned Piano", which involves a specially retuned grand piano on which Young would do a lot of sustained repetition that eventually blurs into a drone. He and his partner Marianne Zazeela (who also works on light projection design for Young's works) even lived in their "Dream House", a combination of a residence and sound installation, with the drone's basis pitch coming from an amplified fishtank pump.

Another great piano "dronemeister" would have to be Charlemagne Palestine, who's also done works for electronics and pipe organ. Palestine's "strumming" method is so hard on the instrument that broken piano strings are a fairly common occurrence at his concerts. And Mazz already mentioned the beautiful and austere works of Eliane Radigue, in which everything constantly evolves toward and away from drone textures.

Also, there's a number of "Krautrock" artists who were/are superb drone creators. In that column, I'd have to mention Klaus Schulze's initial works ("Irrlicht" and "Cyborg"), Tangerine Dream's "Zeit", early Popol Vuh ("Affenstunde" and "In den Garten Pharos") and the dark and foreboding first album by Gunter Schickert, "Samtvogel". Even Kraftwerk's first couple of albums have some heavy drone elements along with really alien soundscaping.

EDITED Jan 31st 2022, 03:22

seems a very expensive way of housing modules to me... and probably much more likely to get noise issues than with fewer cases... you'll probably also need longer cables... and lots of sockets or power strips

most of that would fit in 2 tiptop mantis cases which would cost you substantially less and be more portable as a whole - plus only need 2 power sockets... probably need fewer long cables and only use 2 bags when needing to be taken out of the house

I have 8 cases (about 1800hp in total), 6 of which are stationary - ie always stay in the studio - if I want to go anywhere else with them - including the living room, I have 2 smaller cases: a mantis and a 6u/72hp, which I swap modules in and out of - I use befaco knurlies for screws and only ever screw 2 holes per module - it's simple to swap them (mostly takes minutes) - saying that my mantis is my main video case and I rarely swap more than a couple of modules in/out of it - I really can't see the need of anything smaller - not only on a cost/hp basis but also on a portability/use basis

I always need modulation and utility modules for even the simplest patch - I would undoubtedly always need 4 or 5 of those tiny cases - and moving that many units would be too much of a pain in the ass

for example I am currently set up in the living room - mantis has 3 audio modules in it - a small mixer, peaks and a doepfer lpg - as well as a most of my video synth - the 6u has erica black sequencer, rings, veils, tides, kinks, maths, a small clock divider (used as a sub) a couple of filters and an es8 - these and a video mixer sit on the coffee table and I can wiggle comfortably from the sofa - I have multiple voices - rings is going through both filters patched as a 'mutronics mutator' ish filter - in mono: channel 1 into channel 2 - tides is going into the lpg and the clock divider and I am using peaks for kick and snare

it's great fun and would be much better with a few extra modules - more utilities and modulation and maybe another voice and some hats - all of which are in the studio - another mantis would be perfect - and leave the 6u/72hp upstairs in the studio - but that will have to wait...

EDITED Jan 31st 2022, 03:08

Thanks for the reply - that doesn't sound too promising! I will contact my vendor next week for an update. The sequential voltage source, 245t, is already slated for winter/spring 2022!?

and i almost forgot, thanks for your reports!

EDITED Jan 31st 2022, 02:50

yes - the a-151 is small, passive and inexpensive and works well

Hi FatBerg,

The 258t is in Germany to be expected/estimated to be available around mid March 2022, accordingly to the website of my nearby dealer and the 281t supposed to be mid March 2022 as well but that has been moved up to mid June 2022 :-( So looks like you are much better off in Canada ;-)

For the other modules there is no estimated date yet.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for answering!
Noise is with res off to, and if i use no lfo its there to.
If I use only filter + mixer i can here it when i am moving cutoff.
Funny thing I got it working. If I put filter out to mixer and vca to filter in there is no more noise. (intellijel quad vca)
Now i can go full volume and all good..: ) i dont know why this works but it does..

EDITED Jan 30th 2022, 23:38

Something similar has just happened to me - I received a negative rating out of the blue; going back through my records I found that I had actually interacted with the user 3 months ago - they had contacted me for a module I had listed, asking for photos - after I emailed the photos, they said they were no longer interested, apologizing for wasting my time. I'm confused they should rate me negatively three months later, and I believe it's not in line with how the system is intended to work (it says you should only rate a buyer or seller). I understand this is the simplest possible system and better than nothing (in almost all cases), but it would be great if there was a way to make sure it is not abused

Good stuff, glad to hear :)

It worked!!

Thank you so much!

I can’t get the Launchpad x to work like it’s supposed to with the westlicht any help

Thank you.
I'll read about it and try to implement it

The YouTube videos can be misleading. It is possible to get wonderful sounds with a few modules. But one has to choose them carefully and connect them in particular ways. One doesn't want only one wonderful sound, but many different wonderful sounds, and that might require more than a few modules.

I don't have direct experience with any of your components. I don't think that you can do anything interesting with the VCA, the Seq, Clouds, and the mixer by themselves. They're not junk, but they wouldn't work in one of those videos, not by themselves. They can be used to enhance what the Neutron does, but only if you know how to use the Neutron. You can avoid the constant sound of the Neutron (changed only by turning the tuning knobs) by giving the oscillator some pitch information via MIDI. A keyboard would be the best learning tool for this. You can use a computer or tablet, but it is more complicated to set up.

The link below my messages is my write-up of one possible introduction to modular synthesis. It doesn't talk specifically about your devices, but the concepts are transferable. You can find sections on the Neutron that correspond to things I talk about, and see if you can duplicate the results. If it is not to your taste, there are many other such resources.

Hi, thx for the answer.
first it`s the Erica Synths Pico SEQ.

I bought the Neutron first and it wasn't exactly what I was hoping for.

The only thing I got out of the device was a constant purring and humming.

I then saw videos on YouTube where different people conjured up wonderful spherical sounds with very small systems like mine.

That was exactly what I wanted.

Unfortunately I don't have anyone else to ask.

Have I bought junk now? I thought the modules were OK for starters.

Get a Behringer Neutron and a Korg SQ 1 to play with. Don't start with Eurorack unless you have a LOT of money. Gambling money to burn for an expensive hobby. 5 K at least. Will soon be 10 and you will have a wishlist for another 10 K.
A "small" case for a certain purpose will still cost 4-5 K and you would have to exactly know what you want and why. (Which i would slowly be able to do after having tried out about 100 modules and seen what i like and what not so much, not easy to do for a beginner.)
Or Get a 1010 music Blackbox (used for 400) and a field recorder and some free sample packs.
That makes a lot of sense for ambient/movie/performance soundscapes.

https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/eurorack-systems/pico-system-iii/

You could test the ADSR by plugging in the Square Waveform from your LFO into the IN socket on your ADSR, the light should flash.
A - Set Fully left
D - Set half way
S - Set Half way
R - Set anywhere really but a Fully left will be fine

Make the LFO slow, fingers crossed the ADSR light flashes.

Could someone please let me know when they receive their pre-order. I was told around February 1st by a canadian vendor. Thanks.

Why don't you start with just the Neutron, which is a self-contained semi-modular, so there are default connections made for you? There are some example patches in the manual that you can try reproducing and then altering. When you understand more about the functionality of the various parts, you will be able to introduce additional modules.

You might ask your Instagram friend the reasons for their choices and what they thought you would do with them. There are many Erica Synths Pico modules; you need to specify which one you have.

Im making ambient with the above.
Would it make sense to add a doepfer 151 sequential switch to this setup??

Hi,
After getting into modular around a year ago I'm getting more and more confident that this is my "target" rack to be completed in the next 2-3 years. As you can see it's split into smaller building blocks designed (hopefully) to work good in various combinations. The ideas behind the individual components are:

Pod 64X (s) - fx rack (to pair e.g. with my MC-101) / standalone synth (Rings)
Pod 26 (u) - Maths (analog envelopes and all the goodness) + VCAs / crossfading / ducking
Palette 104 (s) - main synth (multi-voice: drums, basslines, pads, Mimeophon), guitar pedals (e.g. Boss RC-5 looper) send/return
Pod 60 (u) - analog "preset sequencer" + Beads as sampler / sequenced mod bus / audio mixer + Beads as reverb
Pod 32 (u) - 2 different sequencers
Pod 40X (u) - weird VCO + weird envelopes
Palette 62 (s) - drone/generative synth, modulation bank, VCV interface
Pod 26 (u) - complex oscillator + spare/mod bus mixer

(s) = standalone
(u) = utility

That said, I'll be grateful for any suggestions from more experienced artists/wigglers :)

Cheers

Pedal Order:
- Friedman Buffer Bay - Buffered Input (not pictured)
- Keeley Fuzz Bender
- Peterson Strobostomp HD (used Korg Pitchblack as placeholder)
- MXR Noise Clamp (the following indented pedals are in its fx loop)
-- All Pedals Macrodose (used SubDecay Prometheus DLX as placeholder)
-- JHS Unicorn
-- ProCo Rat
-- EarthQuaker Devices Monarch
-- MXR Ten Band EQ
- Meris Hedra (mono in, stereo out)
- DOD Rubberneck (from Meris R out)
- Strymon Blue Sky (ins from Hedra & Rubberneck, stereo out)
- Strymon Deco (stereo in, outputs go to Buffer Bay)

EDITED Jan 30th 2022, 16:25

I hope that I'm not violating any regulations here, but I haven't found anything suitable in a hurry.
So here are my questions.
I would like to start in the ambient area, where it seems to be a long way. I bought a few modules on the advice of an Instagram friend.
Here is a list.
Tip top audio power supply with a frame.
Behringer Neutron (not installed in the rack)
Doepfer VCA A130-2
Erica Synths Pico
Clouds Mutable Instruments
Behringer 305 Mixer

That's the current status.
I have no idea where to start or what I can and should patch.
I've already tried a few things, but haven't had a respectable result yet because, as I said, I don't have a basic setting or the knowledge of what module to connect to another one first, or which input and output of the respective module should use.

You have to start somehow.
For example, patching the output to this input.

Any beginning.

I sincerely hope that someone can help me.

PS.: Before the standard sentence comes, it's a years-long learning process, I know that, but there must be some basic setting so that you can lure out the first notes.

Greetings Iceman

Excellent proposals from @Amenbreak (with the Monotrail Tech Talk video) and @Lugia (with the technical suggestions). For my part: E352 Cloud Terrarium, Nebulae and Morphagene are some of my favourite modular sound sources for that musical genre.

But I think that with various means (and sometimes little means) we can obtain interesting things, because it's actually and mostly a question of mindset when creating and listening.

We can refer here to the music of bagpipes (wind sounds), Ravi Shankar (string sounds), and the historical works of La Monte Young (‘Trio for Strings’) who is one of Eno's references.

so cool. Thanks for sharing

Behringer Crave is a good choice under $400. Further you can check this for good options.
https://www.playpianotips.com/best-synthesizer-for-beginners/
I personally use Behringer Crave and its good. But The “note” buttons are not smooth but hard-clickable... on live a bit annoying... here you are forced to hide the hard click sound that every key press produces mentally.
Otherwise, the device is quite valuable from the haptics... deck and front/back made of metal... feels good so far.
However, the technical and audiotechnical characteristics are the main reason why you buy this device from Behringer.
Okay for the price too.... but the click sounds when operating the buttons... close to the microswitch sound of old joysticks - only unfortunately with higher resistance... on sound devices like this, the sounds should only come from the device and not quasi-mechanical from operating the buttons.

Like with any other genre, listen to the artists you like and ask yourself what it is you like about their music. And try to recreate that.
I'm listening to A LOT of Éliane Radigue lately and currently exploring her sound with my BARP 2500 build. The Modamp module does pure magic to drones if fed a couple of sines and connected as intended (outputs back to the VCOs). Feed that to a chorus and you can listen to that for hours...

You can also use the Toolbox as a primitive envelope generator by patching your gate to the top input. The Time knob will control rise/fall. Can you can patch the output to the VCA CV and hear notes? If so, then it's back to the ADSR module. Is the cable connected the right way around? If so, you may need to talk to Pittsburgh Modular.

Happy weekend,