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I have recently started to get my feet wet with feedback patching for soundscapes. I got some really good results by using the a monitoring out of the tex master back to a tex channel which has been a good experience. It's controllable and you can shape the sound with the effects and filter in the feedback path.
Now to my question: 'Can I patch this modular grid sketch up. or Will feeding back Audio Rate Modulation to the same Oscillator from where It came hurt something? I plan to patch the A*B+C in the mix to be able to attenuate the Modulation.
it's mostly lzx industries analog video synthesizer modules... and others, mostly DIY (syntonie, reverselandfill, fox, visual signals) that use the same paradigm - I also really like using Doepfer wavefolders - and sometimes filters - it's all electricity - but audio modules, using slower ICs (opamps etc) usually add pleasant smears
I also use an application called Lumen (only mac - windows is in the pipeline - but it has been for year) that's a virtual analog video synthesizer - which is also really handy for sending video to the video synthesizer - as it can do full screen on an external monitor - which I then feed to the video synthesizer
I've also recently got a used edirol v4 video mixer - which is really handy... adds some nice effects - and once I can find my rca splitter I can send a copy of the lumen output and mix it back in to the lzx system
for starters Lumen is a really good place to start (if you have a mac) - I started out with Processsing3, though - which is a java scripting environment for visuals - tailored to artists - and then a slightly more complicated version called PraxisLive (which is audio and video - & has some visual programming stuff in it - drag and drop components etc)
I need to fix my 12year old macbook - or get the 5 year old one back from my daughter - so I can use those as a feed into Lumen now that Syphon is no longer supported
another great way to get started is to just point a video camera at a tv (crt preferably or projection onto a screen) and plug the video camera into the same tv - so that you create a feedback loop - which is another technique I've used from time to time... and then move something - like your hand - in between them (or the tv or the camera) - then add a mixer and add in stuff from VCRs/DVDs etc
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Great visuals, Jim! Enjoyed checking them out. Were the images generated with a module, or a program in the box? As a complete beginner, would you recommend any software or modules to get started with?
it's not that marbles and black sequencer make each other superfluous - they just take up too much space together in this size case!! I've got both and a other sequencers besides (sinfonion, step fader, peaks, beatstep pro, pico seq plus some I'm probably forgetting - ah yes stages!) but I have much more rackspace - one or the other in this size case - personally I'd go black sequencer - if you want random - hit magic!!! and I truly love my Marbles
I know all about stages - I've had one since the 2nd batch - it's a great module - but it's also good to have different modulation sources - I usually recommend maths as a first modulation source - mostly because of the fantastic 'maths illustrated supplement' - which is a great introduction and jumping off point for patch programming - an incredibly powerful modular synthesis technique... working through and building on the examples given in the supplement gives a great introduction to modular synthesis - rather than just patching some modules together (what I call 'synthesis with modules' - as opposed to 'modular synthesis')
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
you probably don't need both the rcd and scm - I'd go divider and start with a faster clock - and probably add the expander for the rcd instead - which brings me to how are you intending to clock this??? where is master clock coming from?
not convinced that triple sloths and wobblebug are both needed in a case this size - I have both (well an erica swamp, which is a derivation of wobblebug) but I have about 7 times the rack space
decent start with utilities - but not much in the way of basic plumbing - I'd want more mixing at least - sub mixers and a matrix mixer would be good - that way you can reduce the number of your modulation sources and get more interesting modulation via matrix mixer - and you probably will find you need a lot more in the way of attenuators - really useful for controlling level of modulation
probably don't need the doepfer buffered mult and links - buffered mults are only really needed for pitch and you don't really have enough pitch outputs/inputs to justify both at the moment - remember the middle section of links can be a buffered mult too - I'd get some stackcables or headphone splitters for passive mults too - one caveat to this is if you are trying to use maths with a module that has a non-buffered input - sometimes it can stop working because of this - but only a problem that needs to be solved if and when it arises - I only have a couple of modules that this happens with and they are video modules
I'd also consider dumping the cursible - not enough modules to warrant it at the moment imo - and the bastl 'drone'mixer, again at the moment - bring them back in in the next case perhaps...
have you actually used an eurorack modular before? do you know how small the modules actually are? especially looking at the mutable clones here - the originals have good ergonomics - but the micro clones don't...
I'd dump the output (quite possibly not needed - & if you're going to get one get a better one from a company with a better reputation) and at least one (possibly both) of the mutes and the quad vca - replace with veils (saves 2hp) and get a better end of channel mixer (possibly with mutes included and based on feedback below)... how are you intending to listen to this?
I'd also think about mono/stereo mixing in here - go through working out what sound sources and modifiers are mono or stereo and how you are going to mix these both separately and together
erbe-verbe is huge and is mono input/stereo output - great module - but maybe not suited to a case this size!
hope this helps...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I have the pachinko/ marbles as an alternative to (Turing machine with extension into a quantizer)
I know that the black sequencer provides for much/ all basic sequencing, but I'm not sure if it fully makes the marbles superfluous?
The idea behind the two stages was to have them provide all of my lfos adsrs,or slopes not provided by the black sequencer. It also works for clock division and sample and hold.
I like the aesthetics (nb spelling mistake on yr shop page) - ie not quite perfect... they're pretty cool but I don't really see much advantage over velcro/cable ties, especially given the price (which while not unreasonable, is way more expensive than velcro/cable ties) - which is probably what I'd use if I were playing live
good luck with selling loads though!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
This rack was designed around the intent to make slowly morphing, reverberated drone music. I will be augmenting and using my eurorack with a behringer neutron synth, an ASM hydrasynth, two hungry robot external modules (clockable LFO and buffered mults), a touch based noise synthesizer from Gen Thalz, a field kit & field kit fx from KOMA electronics, various guitar pedals, and a plethora of various synth/cv tools from Michael Rucci at handbuiltelectronicinstruments.com.
I possess 12 of these modules already. I aim to make a dynamic cloud of shaped, slowly morphing sound, obscured by slight noise. I aim to make the cloud’s emotional, timbral range to range from stable, gorgeous serenity to cataclysmic, noise-laden, unstable dread.
Being new to this world, I’m hoping you all can take a look at my idea and see if there are any critical elements I’m missing to make this a solid beginner kit… feel free to be blunt and offer other ideas for cost effective alternatives…and thanks.
other than start with a decent sized case - Mantis is best starter case - hp/cost/quality of power /manufacturer reputation - small case = new case very soon = more expensive
no more advice until you post a link to an actual public rack - jpgs are shit - there are 7k modules and with no click through it's frustratingly difficult to follow - so please help us help you and post the link!!!!
copy and paste url of public rack
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hello everyone, spammy post alert but as I’ve become a fellow Modular Grid addict over the past year or so I think this maybe of interest. I’m delighted to announce a little collaboration with Geert Bevin. They are called Cable Portals and they essentially act as cable tidys for your unruly patch cables. They are designed specifically for this purpose and can take around 20 cables max. They create pathways for your cables and keep them from obscuring vital controls.
I'm as usual - mostly - in agreement with @Lugia on this...
Mutable Instruments modules have good ergonomics - the clones trend away from this - and I like good ergonomics - eurorack modules are small enough already, don't make them harder to play with than they already are!
I do see the pico quant as superfluous in the satellite case though - black sequencer already provides quantization - any external quantization other than something (and there is nothing) like the sinfonion - which will give you chord progression sequencing and quantize (up to 4 sequences to those) is pointless imo...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Well I have kept to my no gear 2022 pledge on Elektronauts and focus on learning what I have now. I will wait for video demos and good reviews of the new Buchla Tiptop modules once they are out and have been reviewed heavily.
Another suggestion, more limited, would be Frequency Central's Stasis Leak. Reverb, chorus, tap delay in 6 hp.
-- Lugia
Plus one for the stasis leak. The ability to use a "real" external reverb tank (I have a few from old Fender amps) is nice, and the digital units you can add provide small, medium, and large space reverb which is also very handy. And yes, I did a build and demo video on this for any DIY'ers who might be interested. Stasis Leak Build
Can this be done with the Doepfer A-138o? I have only used it as an aux for modules in the past.
-- isolatediguana
I don't know if the A-138o (with the A-138p) has sufficient gain for external return. Doepfer's documentation is not very clear on this point. I suspect something like the A-119 Ext. In is needed.
I just ordered a Versio as well (Melotus, but I plan to flash Desmodus and Electus to try them out) but for more intrusive or modulated effects. If I want a quality blackhole or shimmer, I will still go to an external pedal.
@Ronin1973: ‘great initiative... pass of the ball...’ @Broken-Form: ‘perfect interception... and... gooal!!!’
‘Wow! Great! The ModularGrid team has a wonderful collective game tonight!’
(More seriously, @Ronin1973, @Broken-Form, I’ll humbly try it too on my side :))
-- Sweelinck
Haha
I cant try it out untill monday.let us know how it turns out
Hello wizards. I’m looking to jump into building a little setup that will primarily be used for ambient noodling with samples thrown in. I have a microcosm, a few friendly stereo effects pedals, volca drum and Crave to play with outside. I also have a 8 channel mixer and standard audio interface.
Being new to this world, I’m hoping you all can take a look at my idea and see if there are any critical elements I’m missing to make this a solid beginner kit… feel free to be blunt and offer other ideas for cost effective alternatives…and thanks.
I think Desmodus Versio is that dimension? I have this module but flashed the firmware to something else. Personally found it too wild, but maybe it will work well for you
-- kiunthmo
I cross-posted this to Reddit and the consensus was largely Desmodus Versio. I ordered one and we'll see how it goes.
I think Desmodus Versio is that dimension? I have this module but flashed the firmware to something else. Personally found it too wild, but maybe it will work well for you
Perhaps a send/return module like the knob.farm Ferry (4hp, $140) and a really good external pedal? If reverb is really important to you, I don't think in-rack effects match the quality of external ones yet, with the possible exception of the Strymon modules. If you have anything besides modular that you might also want to use effects with (other fixed-architecture synths, guitar, etc.) that tips the balance further.
-- plragde
Can this be done with the Doepfer A-138o? I have only used it as an aux for modules in the past.
@Ronin1973: ‘great initiative... pass of the ball...’ @Broken-Form: ‘perfect interception... and... gooal!!!’
‘Wow! Great! The ModularGrid team has a wonderful collective game tonight!’
(More seriously, @Ronin1973, @Broken-Form, I’ll humbly try it too on my side :))
'On ne devrait jamais quitter Montauban' (Fernand Naudin).
Think of an oscillator with 4 simultaneous waveform outputs. Connect all four audio outputs into a VCA module that can mix like an Intellijel quad VCA. Then connect four modulation sources into the CV inputs... maybe a quad LFO like the Xaoc Batumi and set the Batumi to really slow rates. Of course you don't have to mix just one oscillator... or you could mix between effects or even mix CV sources instead of audio.
If you combine mixing with filter modulation, etc. the sky is the limit.
-- Ronin1973
Im gonna try this with my E352 and plaits connecting Them to my veils.and then try to setup modulation with batumi and zadar
Good to know your observations. Sounds like if I was playing single notes it'd work fine. A chromatic harmonica should work well then. What about bending notes like on a diatonic harmonica? I'm assuming with chords things fall apart or get more difficult.
-- ScottyDizzle
Bending works perfectly.
Be aware that even if playing through this module with a mic and speakers I front doesn't really produce audio feedback, the pitch tracking will completely get lost. Personally I'm using a pickup mic inside a mute for my trumpet. For harmonica, you'll have to play with headphone for good results. Or with speaker set with a gentle volume.
Thanks for those tips, Jim. I appreciate you checking out the tracks and giving your honest feedback. I am just dipping my toes into the video world, and have a new found appreciation for the effort people put into their videos.
Had a look. WAY too many sound sources, and WAY too little in the way of "helper modules". The workflow also seems to be quite jacked-up; I can't exactly see how this would be patched in a way that would make sense.
Figure out what SENSIBLE amount of sources that you need, back down the superfluous stuff, and add the various modulation and utility sources this needs. I mean...dude, this thing's only got four VCAs, and while that's fine for summing a couple of VCOs, how do you expect to control the modulation amplitudes, etc? And how are you going to send those VCAs any envelope signals with just one Peaks for the WHOLE RIG?
I'd strongly suggest that you jettison this build, really. There's too much that doesn't work here, so you shouldn't use it as a restarting point. Then begin again, but this time take time to study experienced builders' and synthesists' builds to see how THEY do this, where you'll probably find a ratio along about 1 part audio sources/modifiers and 3 parts modulation, control etc. And if you don't have VCV Rack installed on your machine, install it. VCV is a VERY comprehensive and FREE Eurorack simulator (and then some!), so you can set up similar builds on it and then troubleshoot how they might or might not work in hardware. And TAKE TIME doing this; really good MG builds can sometimes take weeks or more...because it's important to avoid screwing up in ways that can "doom" the build's usability.
Somewhat off topic, I have to mention http://www.steadystatefate.com/triptych -- from your inquiry I thought maybe the SSF module is in the direction of the sounds you're looking for. The Perfect Circuit Baseck video demo of that is good.
I'm in agreement with Jim on this; if you want this amount of THESE modules, you're probably looking at at least one more row (and preferably two) in order to get the right complement of modules in here, provided the present modules stay the same.
One way to avoid some of this, however, would be to either move the Black Sequencer to an external powered "pod", or to just find a very small sequencer. One suggestion might be this:
This is built into a 4ms Pod 48X, and has the Black Sequencer paired with one of Erica's Pico Quants and a buffered mult so that you can keep CVs stable even if you're using this on some other synth along with the modular. That gets you 42 hp back in the main cab. But you can chuck out even more...one of the Marbles, the 2hp mixers, many of the Mutable clones (you're apt to discover that those teensy knobs aren't a lot of fun to work with), and some existing modules can be "smushed" into different and more efficient configs. F'rinstance: your pair of MCOs. These retail for $175 apiece, more or less, and they take up 6 hp. All well and good...but you can also drop a single Plaits where those are and get a more powerful device in the same space. You can then drop the Plaits clone and open up 8 hp more. Oh, and it costs $259 as opposed to the $350 for the less-capable MCOs. This sort of thing.
I'm sure there are other "condensing points" in there as well. But one thing I'd jump on immediately with this design is how to do it smaller yet still make it ergonomically sensible.
Another suggestion, more limited, would be Frequency Central's Stasis Leak. Reverb, chorus, tap delay in 6 hp. However, the Stasis Leak is set up with a mono-in/stereo-out architecture, so it can also do double duty as a stereoizing module.
-- Lugia
a lot of the fx aid algos also have mono in/stereo out and do the stereoizing thing
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Perhaps a send/return module like the knob.farm Ferry (4hp, $140) and a really good external pedal? If reverb is really important to you, I don't think in-rack effects match the quality of external ones yet, with the possible exception of the Strymon modules. If you have anything besides modular that you might also want to use effects with (other fixed-architecture synths, guitar, etc.) that tips the balance further.
Another suggestion, more limited, would be Frequency Central's Stasis Leak. Reverb, chorus, tap delay in 6 hp. However, the Stasis Leak is set up with a mono-in/stereo-out architecture, so it can also do double duty as a stereoizing module.
Good to know your observations. Sounds like if I was playing single notes it'd work fine. A chromatic harmonica should work well then. What about bending notes like on a diatonic harmonica? I'm assuming with chords things fall apart or get more difficult.
I've found Ornament and Crime to be a good multi-purpose module that actually helps many figure out what they really need going forward...they find a function that they really like and use a lot, then buy a dedicated module for it and then use O_C for other functions.
-- jb61264
good call...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I've found Ornament and Crime to be a good multi-purpose module that actually helps many figure out what they really need going forward...they find a function that they really like and use a lot, then buy a dedicated module for it and then use O_C for other functions.
I think you meant 'populated' not 'polluted', but it gave me a laugh - seriously don't let that discourage you though - your English is OK - better than my German would be, at least without google translate!
I wouldn't count Maths as a particularly fancy module - just incredibly useful - sometimes it's cheaper to buy a slightly more expensive module in the long run - veils is incredibly good value, for example - 4 variable curve vcas in 10hp - probably better value than the doepfer one you have...
FX Aid XL would be a good module to add imo
I don't have ochd, but I think I'd probably rather have Pam's (which I do have)
I'd say you seem to have a lot of basics covered - maybe it's time to think about something interesting...
you mention what you are using for sequencing, but not the pico seq... I've got one - I use it for sequencing song parts on Sinfonion - and only for that - I find the lack of a dedicated reset button/jack a real pain... what are your thoughts about it?
cheers
Jim
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Yes, I have seen your signature before while browsing, I think it makes a great deal of sense.
please check out the rearrangement of the rack.
a bit better:
links is a good buy - versatile - especially the middle section
kinks is discontinued - used or there's a clone version
the 2 2hp mixers next to each other are impractical - split them up? how are you intending to use them (I'd want 1 next to the MCOs)
do you really need the black sequencer and the pachinko - I've got both (well Marbles) but I've got a lot more
modules/ rack space - I wouldn't have both in this size case...
I'd probably replace the blinds with happy nerding 3mia & 3vca
I'd probably only have 2 or maybe 3 sound sources in this size case - you have 4/5 - 2MCOs, beehive, quarks, nRings & monsoon - but only 2 filters & some overlap with sound sources in terms of sound modification (clouds and nRings) - & no stereo sub mixing before hitting doupples
I'd probably want an FX Aid XL or 2 - versatile, useful effects modules with 1/2 decent ergonomics and
given that the black sequencer can do modulation as well as gates/triggers and pitch I'd probably look at dropping one of the stages at least in this size case!
so still imo not very balanced - as I said I'd add another row to this to house more 'support modules' which would probably get you into ball park of balanced system - at least with this number of voices
what do you value most in utilities?
what utilities do you feel are most essential/ least essential?
sequential switches, switched multiples, trigger combiners, matrix mixers, sub mixers, logic, attenuators, inverters (or combined as attenuverters), trigger/gate delays, sample and hold, mults etc etc... they're all good - it's how you use them that counts
I have more or less all of these (& more) sometimes in multiples
the more you have, the more you can copy, alter and combine more signals to create more interesting ones
thank you.
-- fretless19
NP
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hi! I was planning on building this system with diverse sound sources, capable of performing on its own
and able to provide a bit of sound design capabilities.
Is there something that can be improved/changed?
Thanks for any advice!
I started making music with modular a year ago.
Might be some kind of mid-life-crisis thing.
Used to be a teenager-dream when i saw Dieter Döpfer exhibting his cases and modules in a music-shop in Munich.
Now 20 years later, eurorack doesn't look so expensive/difficult/scarry anymore.
So i dipped my toe in!
I have a 19inch stage-case (6U) wich is housing 2 rows (82hp each) for eurorack-modules (PSU is a tipTop uZeus). The case is pretty sturdy, can be closed with a lit - wich is great for moving the rack around, jammin with a friend (maybe playing live some day). Not a beauty but a pretty budget friendly case (lots of material flying arround unused).
So it's supposed to be between a Studio-Tool and a live instrument.
I polluted the rack very slowly during the last year. As a long-time reader on this forum i tried to stick to some frequently mentioned tipps for starters.
Don't get seduced by the "fancy" modules
RTFM before you buy a module to ensure what a specific module can do (and what not)
There should be a reasonable and usefull relation between the types of modules
(sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities)
Don't buy a huge bunch of modules once, go slow, enjoy the limitation, understand stuff and exhaust the functionalitys of things you allready got
I also tried to resist buying very much "pricy" modules, due to fact that i wasn't 100% shure if would enjoy eurorack on a longer term. So after a year of research, reading and fiddling with the view modules i own, i feel more convinced to go ahead with my rack. I tend to check the functionality of my rack by building pretty much the same in VCV to see what makes sense (and sounds good). With the last two modules i purchased (MATHS and 3xMIA) i got a lot more possibilitys to mix/combine modulation CV and fine tuning modulation CV. In generall, they helped me to understand stuff.
So far so good.
At this curtain point of my build, im a little bit helpless to reach for new Modules. I just don't know where to go. So i'm asking for some input, opinions and feedback. I have two modules on my urgent wishlist, wich are OCHD and VEILS. I think OCHD is great, kind of a "no regrets" or "tried and true" module. I start to realise the possibilty of automating stuff within a patch so i think more VCAs with mix could help for stuff like that (im not set to veils).
I dont mind diving into menues that much and i also have no problems with cheatsheets ;-)
But i also like "dedicated" modules.
As a broadcast engineer i have no problem with tiny buttons and technical stuff
I'm willing to break with my tipp 01 (fancy modules) ... wich i allready did with maths
I definetivly have some fx on my short-term wishlist (FX AID not available at the moment).
I really like distings stereo-fx but i want to explore other disting-algos and get a dedicate fx module on the long term
Meanwhile i have reactivated my old tc.electronic delay/verb ;-) to free the disting
I have some "fancy" stuff on my long-term wishlist wich is (in particular order): PNW, Mimeophon, Data-Bender, Wogglebug and maybe dozens more. But those wishes are pretty random - I want to get the basic stuff covered first
Last but not least ...
I sequencing stuff in change with a keystep, SQ-1, sometimes with 2 channels of my Elektron Model.Samples.
I record my stuff with an desktop mixer, monitoring and recording with focusrite scarlett. Like a lot of people arround i like to work without the computer, except mixing and mastering tracks. Right know i'm more focused on experimenting and kind of rehearsing live performance.
Musically wise i thing i would describe my musical outpout as kind of ambient, dubish, technoid stuff.
As a kid of the 90s, aged hip-hop-head and rap/poetry artist im also attracted by the relatviely knew genre called "mod-bap"
I'm not into generative but i wouldn't mind to build patches that are kind of selve-evolving developing over a certain period of time.
Right now i'm not into swapping modules since i like all of them.
There might be a bigger cab in the future - right know i try to fill the case
if you have to ask "do I have enough xyz modules", then you probably don't have...
if it were me I'd want another row (maybe 2) dedicated to more utilities (and probably another modulation source and/or envelope generators) based on what you have in that rack...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Do i have enough plumbing/ utilities ?
elements and the other sound generators really need a lot of modulation, and i'm wondering if this design has enough built in here.
