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It's a good idea. You can also loop internally with modules like the 1010 Music BitBox. It can look in sync with your CV clock or MIDI (if your sequencer supports MIDI). It offers a 16 cell grid of sample playback, so it can handle loops AND one shots like drums.

The only issue would be wanting to change your tempo later. But a quick trip to and from Ableton Live will solve that. You can open up a 16 cell kit in Ableton Live, warp your samples to another tempo, then save and replace your samples at the new tempo.

Oh and if you're handy with editing XML, you can quickly assemble new kits from any sample collection you have and save them to BitBox's SD card.

Thanks for the in depth replies. I did get lured into the small cases. They’re so damn attractive until I try and jam everything in them. I’m aware of the VCA uses but didn’t realize that some modules have VCA’s but aren’t the same as freely patchable VCA’s. I think the Modemix was a mistake while I was shopping for a VCA. It appears to modulate the signal more than anything. I’m going to keep forging ahead and diversify my racking evolution.
Thanks gang!
-- Lowtide

If you go through the rest of this forum, you will see the #1 issue... by far... is people trying to build-out a tiny first case. They make things exponentially harder using a small case. As you learn modular and more importantly, what direction(s) you want to go in, you WILL add more modules and possibly even get rid of a few others. But more often than not, what you start with won't be enough. They don't call it Eurocrack for no reason.

Give yourself the opportunity to broaden your collection and freely add more modules. Empty space in a case is a GOOD thing. If you do decide to go with a small skiff set-up (for whatever reason), there are plenty of synth-heads looking to upgrade to a bigger case... because the case they originally bought... was WAY too small. :)

No. They have the same basic footprint. But the inputs and outputs are different.

Temps Utile has 6 inputs and 6 outputs. O&C has 8 inputs and 4 outputs. Those ins and outs are configured for different signals (gates, triggers, CV) as well.

Makes sense, nick...have you tried rearranging the ribbons so that the draws become more even across all of the power distro scheme? It should be possible, if you more or less know your module draws, to snake things in there around so that everything becomes even, then if the P/S for that zone is still running too hot, you'll know that there's potentially a problem with the P/S itself. If not, though, you've gotten your current draws set up properly with those adjustments.

I’m going to keep forging ahead and diversify my racking evolution.
Thanks gang!
-- Lowtide

That's the right attitude, yep...you have to be ready to push past mistakes to head for a suitable goal. And that's not just in this, but pretty much anything in music. It's what keeps us in practice rooms for hours on end back in academic days, and it's how you, to borrow the Interwebz phrase, "get gud". It probably also helps that you've got people in the forum with more than a century's collective knowledge, garnered from personal experience, to draw on.

So, what I would suggest is to post up all of the modules you've got in a 2 x 104 hp cab (ie: a Mantis "footprint"), and then let a few of us rip into that, and see what entails. NONE of the results are likely to be the same, either, which should show that there's multiple approaches to a proper result. And don't lose the skiffs! We've still got a semi-running thread on here in which the OP was looking for ideas for a skiff-type device that's modulation-dedicated, for example, and THAT is a good use for them. For example, let's say you have something like a Matrixbrute...plenty of CV/gate I/O...so why not add a few extra modulation sources, including some that can be fired off by the skiff itself? THAT is what the small cases do best...little "mission-specific" tricks and extras.

Many amazing modules mentions in here, I definitely need one more voice in my rack to finally feel its complete for what I want to do.
Been watching videos and thinking about all the options:

Gravitational Waves: it's on Etsy at a good price, but don't think it will add much or do anything my Rubicon II already does.
Angle Grinder: after much youtube research, while it looks like something I would use it seems to have a bit too much of white noisy sound to it, so not really sure if it's the best to get right now.
Noise Enginnering VCOs : 20hp, can't fit it and the 10hp ones seem to have too much of the same sounds, not too versatile (still great modules tho).
Piston Honda: sounds phenomenal but so expensive, I'm tempted to go for one tho, only concern is the depth, think I'll have to move some stuff around; there's also Herts Donut... FUCK

I'm obsessed now, must have at least one and then I can make all the fucking noise in the world :D

What you guys think, between Donut and Honda?

Found this on Synthtopia this morning. I think it's a great idea.

Thanks for the in depth replies. I did get lured into the small cases. They’re so damn attractive until I try and jam everything in them. I’m aware of the VCA uses but didn’t realize that some modules have VCA’s but aren’t the same as freely patchable VCA’s. I think the Modemix was a mistake while I was shopping for a VCA. It appears to modulate the signal more than anything. I’m going to keep forging ahead and diversify my racking evolution.
Thanks gang!

I really enjoy my Krait. I keep three long cords plugged into to ready to plug into any module that I want to wiggle manually. It's the best third hand I ever had so far.

I have multiple of them. The OG Desmodus Versio is too good to change, same with the Ruina Versio. Swapping the firmwares holds no value to me other than for temporarily evaluating another version, since I plan on keeping the DV and the RV.

An alternative might be the Cloud Terrarium wave table VCO. Has nice color 3D screen and looks super awesome and less expensive than Piston Honda. It may be more clean but fed into a distortion effect should beef it up.

Oh, thanks! I did add two more tracks. I had a couple extra tunes that I had forgotten about. The original title was going to be "Which Coast?" It was meant to stir the pot a little to see if anyone could hear whether I used east-coast or west-coast synthesis. I used both equally.

Hello funbun. I really like how you built up the textures in the track "Bells", which I listened to yesterday along with a couple of the others and now I see you have added two more tracks. "Which Coast Christmas?" is nice and lush for the Yuletide and the coolest title!

All the best.

I reorganized the rack. Upper row is modulation now, lower row most of the voices. I started this due to the fact that Stages was already crammed in every patch if sitting in the lower row. And Ears is also back in a reachable position.

before:

after:

The position of the 2hp sine is a little fiddly as it is pretty long and could potentially touch the connectors on the back of the skiff.

Hey BrumoD, great point, yes the 4 PSUs do look do be 1 per quadrant vs 1 per row. Out of the quadrants in my rack, Q1 (upper left) has the biggest power consumption #s and the most heat.

SO looking by quadrant, MG estimates Quadrant1 draw of 1478 mA +12V | 848 mA -12V | 0 mA 5V. If the case's total specs divide evenly across its 4 PSUs then one PSU should give 2000mA @ +12V, 1200mA @ -12V, 4000mA @ +5V. AND if that's right, then my Quad1 draw is ~75% of +12V capacity, 70% of -12V capacity and 0% of the 5V capacity. Am I looking at this right? Are those %s high enough to be making a lot of heat?

Looing at the total case (all 4 PSUs) my draw vs capacity is about 55% usage at +12V, 52% usage at -12V, and 0% at 5V. SO, while I have lots of power headroom in the case overall, maybe I'm pushing 1-2 PSUs too hard and getting excess heat as a result...

What do you think of the #s above?

Thanks!

I noticed in the image below that the Doepfer monster case seems to have 1 independent power supply per quadrant, not per row.

https://doepfer.de/presse/A100PMS12_front.jpg

If you run into power or heat problems, you should probably check the total power load from the upper/left and of the upper/right modules first.

I can put some #s on this:
-- Deopfer Monster 12u case power specs (per Perfect Circuit): Available Current: 8000mA @ +12V, 4800mA @ -12V, 16000mA @ +5V
-- my 12uMonster rack's row1 draw per MG: 1075 mA +12V | 487 mA -12V | 0 mA 5V | ... about average (1/4 of total below)
-- my 12uMonster rack's row2 draw per MG: 1496 mA +12V | 764 mA -12V | 0 mA 5V ... higher than average
-- my 12uMonster rack's TOTAL draw per MG: 4421 mA +12V | 2535 mA -12V | 0 mA 5V

So if my case has 8000mA @ +12V delivered by 4 PSUs (one for each row) am I maybe pushing Row2 too hard by using ~1500mA +12V?

"Careful...one of the standard MG caveats is that the current draw figures aren't always 100% accurate...or sometimes even present!" -- I hear you @Lugia. BUT if the #s above are roughly right, would we be expecting a heat problem?

I have some other cases that are NOT experiencing heat issues -- they get warm but not hot -- so I'm just hoping to identify and fix the issues going on with this one Monster case. Thanks!!

I have one and love it since it can do quite a bit besides reverb and you can change the firmware to suit your taste.

QUESTION: might I be overrunning power on PART of my Doepfer monster case setup? MG shows my rack power consumption is way under max capacity for the case as a whole.
-- nickgreenberg

Careful...one of the standard MG caveats is that the current draw figures aren't always 100% accurate...or sometimes even present!

ALSO...I seem to remember that there was a modification kit to allow you to remove the upper and lower trim panels of Doepfer A-100 cases and install some 4 hp horizontal frames in their place. Can't find it right now, unfortunately, but if you can turn some up, fill 'em up with 4 hp vent panels...or just use some 4 hp blanks and drill as desired. Since these are at the top and bottom of the cab, the normal airflow should draw out the heat buildup in the case.

EDITED Dec 17th 2021, 04:13

OK...for starters, this isn't what I would call a "learning" build. In fact, NOTHING that fits into these little "beauty cases" would be able to manage that unless you go with modules under 4 hp...at which point you run into the ergonomic issues of lots of tiny knobs with no space for fingers. You see these WAY too often on YouTube...and I (and an experienced bunch of others here) consider the vast majority of the ones you see there to be essentially useless as all-around modular synths.

In short, this is heading in the wrong direction really fast! A far better and more usable situation would be to get one of the better starting cabs out there right now: the Tiptop Mantis. Then put ALL of the modules you have into that to form a complete and MUCH more educational full system. And if you think that a 2 x 104 hp with beefy power is expensive, then...

Intellijel Palette 62 = $299
Tiptop Mantis = $335

Clearly, it makes more sense in the long run to ditch the little skiffs (keep them for other purposes, though) and put your ENTIRE system in the same place, under the same power. This also helps avoid issues involving possible ground loops from having two devices, each with their own P/S, talking to each other and potentially passing a lot of ground loop hum between them.

In truth, if you want a "learning system"...it's free. VCV Rack is a Eurorack emulator that does a VERY good job at behaving like you'd expect the hardware to operate. There's even some modules that replicate familiar ones from MG. https://vcvrack.com/ I'd suggest messing around with this for a while before whipping out the plastic for actual hardware. It does take a good bit of computer power to run it at crazed synth veteran levels, but you should be able to work out how the basics work before your computer says "ENOUGH!" due to the processing load. My suggestion would be to start exploring what VCAs are for and what they do...as there's not a single one in the above build!

The other suggestion is that you should put up a build that contains ALL of your modules. Don't worry about the order in the cab...plenty of us will likely have a lot to say about it and do TO it. Probably a lot more educational in the long run...

EDITED Dec 17th 2021, 03:07

Get a bigger case- I recommend the Intellijel 7u case or Tiptop Mantis case. That way you have room for support modules and so forth. You need VCAs, envelope generator, mixer, and modulation sources like LFOs.

Thanks! Hope this works this time

I have several cases and the heat issue is popping up only in my most power hungry setup. So no, not common on this end. But I am trying to troubleshoot it so that my expensive OSC modules can have a good long lifetime.

QUESTION: might I be overrunning power on PART of my Doepfer monster case setup? MG shows my rack power consumption is way under max capacity for the case as a whole. But maybe I have a lot of power consumption focused on one row of my 4 row case? If this is a potential culprit for the heat buildup, I could move some modules around. But I have a good module setup I don't want to fuss with if moving them elsewhere in the case wouldn't help...

EDITED Dec 17th 2021, 00:23

Don't link the JPEG. Link the build page's URL itself...but before doing so, refresh your build page to make sure everything is where it goes, then you'll want to pull up the "screenshot" (under "view") as make sure it matches the build page. If not, then refresh the screenshot. Done right, that should put the build up PLUS the links to dive into it and screw around.

Control Voltage in Portland, OR currently shows the Piston Honda in stock. (which kinda makes sense, as the IME modules are made in Portland.) (Controlvoltage.net)

Theres no way to have the Beatstep Pro send a gate to the O_C when it starts?

Is this a common problem..? I'm still building up but a rack heating up is quite a scary thought..
-- SeveredSerpents

The problem is mainly due to the power supplies. These are usually the primary heat source inside cabs; a few 4 hp supplies get hot enough that you'll see a warning on them about high temperatures. Most of the time, this isn't a concern...but if the heat builds up enough, it can throw modules that need precise CVs (VCOs, for example) for tuning reasons into fits. This has been a constant battle, actually. One of ARP's early adverts touts the stability of their VCOs as opposed to Moog's. Some of this was due to better design in the exponential voltage converters...but the original Moog 901s were notorious for janky tuning issues due to heat.

The other big problem is that excessive heat isn't good for electronic components. Over time, this can manifest as various instabilities in modules. The power supplies themselves are pretty susceptible to this issue, actually, plus they have to deal with their own current inrush issues on power up which, if components have been damaged enough, could cause you to need a new power supply.

What I would suggest, if you're worried about this, is to snake a wire into the cab for a temperature probe. Sounds super-esoteric, but it's not. https://www.amazon.com/Calibrated-Electronic-Thermometer-Waterproof-B60900-2700/dp/B00VA3I77Y/ref=sr_1_12?crid=EB1IQCGK27EC&keywords=electronic%2Bthermometer&qid=1639692887&sprefix=electronic%2Bther%2Caps%2C188&sr=8-12&th=1 goes for $26 and change. Once the cab is filled, tape the sensor inside the case so that it's held in place by tape across the wire (DON'T cover the probe itself!) while making sure that the probe isn't near any circuitry, fire it up, and see where the temperature winds up once things stabilized. If things rise to over 100F/40C, then you might need to ventilate the cab with some vent blanks or, to avoid losing panel space, follow mrsupersubsonic's rear case venting method above.

I don't personally have one, but the guy I jam with has two, the reverb tail generator and the delay and they are built super solid like all NE stuff and the two together are a whole lot of fun. Im out of space/money at the moment or I would buy them.
-- xnax

They look and sound really sweet with the fact that you can swap out the firmware if you want to change things up. I have a small Rackbrute 3U that is solely a compliment to my Minibrute2 for modulation/effects/etc and think this could be a really cool addition

I don't personally have one, but the guy I jam with has two, the reverb tail generator and the delay and they are built super solid like all NE stuff and the two together are a whole lot of fun. Im out of space/money at the moment or I would buy them.

Is this a common problem..? I'm still building up but a rack heating up is quite a scary thought..

Windows only likes to recognize one audio interface and one only. I've heard of there being a custom ASIO that allows for aggregate interfaces. But I've never used it or set it up.

Hi all...anybody using the Noise Engineering Versio? Looking for some opinions as I consider buying one...digging the fact that you can upload firmware to any of the other Versio versions...just wondered what everyone thought about them in general.

Easy... I hope... Is the hardware underneath the same? Meaning, could I load hemispheres on a utile!? Yeah the panel may not be right... But that's an easy fix. Just curious because of the price difference. Digital ports maybe?
I'll admit my quick Google and forum searches didn't get me an answer... So I'm here. Big thanks!

EDITED Dec 16th 2021, 20:50

My latest one and my first patch with this Bark filter !

Some distorted drone this time...

Morphagene is going into Mimeophon.
Mimeophon output are multed into

• Noise Engineering Desmodus Versio
• Verbos Bark Filter
• Mannequins Cold Mac

Cold Mac does some logical crossfading mixing adding a lot to the sound then goes into Mutable Clouds.

Verbos Bark Filter
- All Out into Mannequins Three Sisters for some crackling frequencies
- Odd Filters to Beads for some bass and highs in the end.

Modulations by Batumi, Bark Filter, Morphagene

ER-301 brings more delays, EQ, mixing and more noises !

The Void Modular stuff is heavy, definitely check it out.

I don't have it all and know some friends with 10x the amount of modular setup but I am making a good progress.
Check with Patchwerks and Detroit Modular they may have some Piston Hondas in stock.

I have the Hertz Donut, Kermit and Bionic Lester. All fun modules. Saving for Piston Honda.
-- sacguy71

Some men have it all ;-;

Where do you plan on getting it from, I think I've only seen one for sale on reverb and that's about it..

Take a look at Void Modular's Gravitational Waves...I have it paired with VM's Sirius Veil and love the gritty/fat stuff I get from it. Dual VCO with Ring Modulation built into it as well...a great value IMO
-- jb61264

Ill check that one out, that brand actually hasn't been very much on my radar. It better be big with a name like gravitational waves!

At this moment I see that the Noise Engineering Loquelic Iteritas Percido is available at Modular Freq, on their website and their Reverb store... It's an incredibly powerful module: a wide range of sounds (from percussion to drone), very fat with a lot of dynamics. Do not procrastinate... :)
-- Sweelinck

That last bit is very good advice haha

I'm definitely going to look into that device, I was previously interested in their Manis Iteritas but what you mentioned looks like big brother to it.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1777809.jpg

Hey everyone,
Not sure if my rack I built is showing up in the post. I put it together to learn modular patching and use in conjunction with my Deluge. What do you think? Am I missing any critical elements?
I also have a skiff with an Odessa and a After Later Typhoon for extra voices and depth..
I’m getting some janky grooves so far so good

Cheers

EDITED Dec 16th 2021, 18:34

I have the Hertz Donut, Kermit and Bionic Lester. All fun modules. Saving for Piston Honda.

I had the opportunity to run this module side by side with an original JP8. The character is superbly catched. The ability to drive the module into self-oscillation is a thankfully taken plus. If you want modular access to THE Jupiter sound this VCF is essential.
-- XCenter

+1

i have the Jup8 and AM8109 is incredibly faithful. the character, the liquidy resonance, the silk top end in 12dB mode, its all there.

to add, even if one does not peticularly care for Jup8, in euro context, among the sea of cascaded ota filters, this one is a true standout. only other i've run into that has such beautiful, organic tone is Synthtech E440 and Radical SH1.

EDITED Apr 28th 2022, 16:50

Take a look at Void Modular's Gravitational Waves...I have it paired with VM's Sirius Veil and love the gritty/fat stuff I get from it. Dual VCO with Ring Modulation built into it as well...a great value IMO

>
...interesting power distribution discussion that happened in the 1st episode of Feed The Monster with Kim Bjorg and Ben Divkid where Chris Meyer explained issues and solutions for his big case (the whole series is pretty cool IMO). As a pre-made "humble" case, I didn't really have to consider the power issues, but feel for the people who do...

-- toodee

I'm thinking one of these

for GND in the big case.
And one for my anger management.
The 60 mm by 5 looks wieldy.

EDITED Dec 16th 2021, 14:18

Yeah modules I’ve been eyeing so far are Erica sample drum mallekko varigate 8+ In a few years I hope to get Industrial music pistol Honda hertz donuts and a lep loop v2 and instruo arbhar and a wave folding module and after audio bog and Alan Turing

EDITED Dec 16th 2021, 14:31

...

I'm kickin' their ass over here with my Z420 and Z620! Yeah, baybee...always good to know you've got superior firepower!
-- Lugia

It's not about the gear but what you do widdit.
Though I'm pretty sure yours has more VCAs ;-)
Be well.

Hi @bernardhumperdink. I am a big fan of all the artists you mentioned. In fact, I saw Broadcast with Prefuse 73 live in the early 2000s. Great show.
You might enjoy the Erica Sample Drum for some glitchy happy accidents.
Have fun and good luck.

Using a nldr noodler via midi and a Eric synth pico 3 for out puts.(also have a Roland looper I plan to bring in ).Most of what I do is happy accidents and really enjoying it planing on getting a peak clone soon. Huge fan of work by aphex twin broadcast boards of Canada uzig prefuse odd nosdam Marc rebiller surgeon.Following dreams just to plonk away.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1777370.

EDITED Dec 16th 2021, 13:37

Smart contact and fine transaction with @yrn1
Thank You Jeroen !

Hi,
Just got a Livestock Electronics Maze and i must say its pretty amazing what you can do with it
Matrix mix for audio but also work as attenueverter to mangle waves
You can morph between different matrix patch points you've saved , or trigger to go to the next matrix .
Check it out .