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If I remember correctly, Butch Vig and Billy Corgan half-jokingly said the Mutron Biphase was their secret weapon when recording Siamese Dream.

I've only actually connected a keyboard to a Quantiser once, it certainly made it easier to play all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order :)

Metron has been extremely easy to learn compared to some others. You'll need the Voltera expander for CV control though which can be annoying.

I have a ton of U-he software and love it. I thought about adding CVilization to my modular setup but on inspection it is too darn complicated for me! I have a significant modular setup and super function-dense modules with intense manuals are too much for me presently. Too bad though, I was looking forward to U-he in modular form!

I love SISM, I don’t have an issue that it’s basically manual, I use it to constrain ranges. BTW Instruo Tanh3 is kind of the opposite for me, pushing more of the signal towards the min&max values; Klavis Flexshaper is something I might try for similar purposes.

If you’re set on CV control for attenuation and mixing, 4ms VCA Matrix may fit your needs.

For new stuff I might suggest Tiptop Z8000 as an interesting CV / sequence source. I’m likely getting one of those soon. Other items that may be interesting adds for you would include the Joranalog Morph 4 (see esp. the Divkid Video on that one!) and NonLinear Circuits stuff (particularly Chaos and/or logic modules).

Thanks for the update, looking forward to hearing what's next for you!

EDITED Aug 4th 2021, 21:45

Or something else I ran across might be useful there as well. Over on KVR, there's a Scala format "tuning bank" plugin: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/scala-creator-by-homegrown-sounds $22, and I'm thinking that it's certainly worth that. Using that, you should be able to blow Scala tuning tables into most anything that can accept them.

Checking the 4ms site reveals some operation basics: https://4mscompany.com/p.php?p=679&c=5 The CV control here actually involves using an LFO with one or more channels to modulate the halfwaving process going on with the "slice" functions. Not like a VCA and how it deals with CVs, but there's some basic similarities there.

Not even close. The Mellotron is the tape-based "protosampler" that defined a lot of music from the mid-1960s up thru the end of the 1970s or thereabouts. For example, the opening of "Strawberry Fields Forever"...those are the flute tracks from a Mk III. Great instrument, maddening maintenance requirements.

Now, Mutron was a spin off from ARP and they put out effects pedals that are VERY sought-out to this day. The Biphase was this amazing phase shifter that employed both swept and fixed/tunable filters and some really interesting modulation methods, and the original developer collaborated with Electro-Harmonix when they designed the Flanger Hoax. Flanger Hoaxes are a bit spendy, but NOTHING compared to the price of vintage Mutron gear!

Hello,

I'm about 7 months into modular (but a longtime musician & synthesist). I've got a good modular setup and am now considering EXPANDING it, particularly with one or more additional Sequencing modules. I already have Vector + Expansion, and it is very good IMO. Still, I am looking to build out to a more "complex sequencing chain" as discussed in these 2 posts:
i) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10262
ii) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9467

My next sequencer(s) could include CV and/or trigger/gate sequencing -- I'm pretty open in consideration presently. I am digging into sequencer videos and manuals online BUT am coming away with a not so great idea of what makes one module superior for particular users. So, for those willing to share, I am wondering: what are your favorite sequencer modules? What in particular do you like about them? Why did you choose those over credible alternatives? What are some of the most important things did you not like about those others you passed up?

Some particular units I'm hoping to understand better include Eloquencer, Tiptop Trigger Riot, Tiptop Circadian Rhythms, Frap USTA, WMD Metron, Verbos Multistage CV + Sequence Selector, Rene2, Euclidean Circles v2. But feel free to mention any sequencers you really love / hate. I WILL likely add further "supporting units" such as switches, logic, adders, busses, etc. that are helpful (if not also necessary) for "complex sequencing;" that said, this point, I'm more focused on ID'ing what may be the top candidates for additional sequencer modules to add.

I have tried to glean related info from other spots on the forum, but surely I've missed some, so please feel free to post other thread links as relevant. BTW I've used the Doudoroff list as the general sequencer list (https://doudoroff.com/sequencers/)

To summarize and simplify, I'm wondering if we have a "modular sequencer shootout" of items in the 2021 marketplace, which modules rise to the top and why?

Thanks all!

Nicholas

EDITED Aug 4th 2021, 00:29

Hi Lugia,

The Mu-tron and the mellotron are that about the same thing or two totally different things?

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Is there any way to rotate a module 90 degrees so that it fits into the 3U to 1U adapters?

Couple of things...first up, you really don't want a mono output, especially with that Beads in there. The output module also has connections for the Intellijel (I'm presuming that's what's specced here) case's 1/4" jacks, so those are a tad unnecessary, meaning you shouldn't have a problem adding in the normal stereo out. For that matter, I'd consider tossing the mult and scope tiles as well; scopes are nice IF you have room for them, but a 7U x 84 case like this doesn't have that room. And as for the mult, you can jam more functionality in by chucking it and going with inline mult widgets, since there's no need here for a buffered mult, apparently.

Better choices? Well, here's a layout for the tiles that makes loads more sense:

Now, here you've got another FX processor, which will be useful for "stereoizing" mono signals. And that dual stereo mixer gives you hot outputs for more modular processing while, at the same time, it also provides your stereo output at line level via a pair of the cab's 1/4" jacks, AND you can mix your FX tile's stereo out and the Beads' stereo out right there for your final mix balancing. Definitely more useful!
-- Lugia

thanks !!!

Y'know, what we REALLY need here is a multichannel quantizer that can accept/understand Scala tuning tables. Maybe blow 'em in via a USB connection...? I don't think such a critter exists at present so if any module developers are reading this...well, you get the idea.
-- Lugia

This would be pretty simple in a Monome Crow...

I only use it as a matrix mixer (mainly because my head exploded when I read about the other modes). It works really well for that and is easy to use.
I‘m looking forward to diving deeper into CVilization at some point, though.

The 3rd video from the "Aquadrum" album will be on my youtube channel on Tuesday, August 10

The 2nd video from the "Aquadrum" album will be on my youtube channel on Friday, August 6th.

Was just wondering if anyone has encountered this:
It seems to me that the HPO is considerably more noisy when driving low impedance Headphones (Apple Earbuds) and Line Inputs when compared to Hi-Z Instrument Inputs on my Interface or my Beyerdynamic DT-150's.

Thankful for feedback.

Time for an update on the mostly generative journey. It’s been a blast so far and I’m eternally grateful for the detailed advice - especially yours @Lugia, I constantly return to it as I learn more. As you can see, I’ve deviated on module choice but I’d like to think I’m following the principles laid out earlier in the thread. I’m not at all worried about mis-steps as Covid/chip shortage is driving a thriving used module market - it’s so easy to sell things on at almost new prices.

The rack is an Arturia RackBrute joined 6U and 3U, with the 3U’s side panels reversed so the power modules line up to the left (thanks to Splendor’s excellent pro tip in another thread in this forum).

I’m still following Lugia’s excellent layout, at least in principle. Most mentions of other modules below are in reference to that guiding ‘mega rig’. I’m also using VCV heavily in my patches, especially for effects like the Vahalla Supermassive plugin.

I guess (or hope) the choices are somewhat self-explanatory but to highlight a few things:

The ALM Pip Slope Mk2 is there is a space saving way to get a Krell going with the Rampage should I fancy it, and an extra EOC.

The SSF Ultra-Random is the stand-in for the Wogglebug and Verbos Random Sampling (too big for me right now). I just wanted to try it out since it became discontinued, and Chris Meyer has a series of very in-depth videos on it to guide me.

Disting EX and Mk4 are there to stand in for many of the functions recommended, plus with the EX I can experiment with the SD Multisample, Granulation, 4-drone, Matrix Mixer etc

Been using the Voltage Block like a clocked LFO and plan to get the Ochd to compliment that with its 8 freeform LFOs. Though now I’m getting the hang of matrix sequencers in VCV, might instead replace the VB with ZX8000 Lugia had recommended.

As for modules coming next: I’m on the shortlist for the Sport Modulator 2, so that one is definitely going in at some point, which gives me quite a lot of S&H in the rack (as much as 9!) so I’m excited about that. I intend to add the Nin expander to the Zadar for more modulation. I’ve been using the Doepfer sub-mixer more for CV than audio, so I’m gonna go for the skinny version and get 4HP back. The Doepfer x2 quantizer will probably get replaced by the ADDAC x4 Intuitive for 2HP more at a later date. Also thinking of replacing the TikTok clock divider/multiplier with the Fraction Solum - the TikTok is there to free up more Pam’s outputs for smooth random and modulation, but the Solum’s CV control and flexibility is too tempting.

In terms of how I’m using the rack for patches, I usually use one of the AD loops as the core, or a clock from Pam’s. Also, playing around with rotating clock divisions for arrangement has been a lot of fun - example here (which ironically is not at all generative):

So… Would love to hear your thoughts on what to what to get next, get replaced etc for the eventual goal of a great rack for generative. After the Sport Mod there’s about 21HP left to fill. Of course another case is an option but would rather think about keeping it to the two Brutes for now (living in Brooklyn doesn’t exactly offer a whole lot of space for this stuff). Totally open to replacing anything with anything though.

One area I do find lacking in this rack is mixing/attenuating - not something that’s particularly handled well by using VCV because I don’t want to send signals back forth across the digital divide etc. I’m looking at the 4MS SISM (again, recommended by Lugia) but it doesn’t look CV controllable. Does anyone know of a more programmable way to mingle signals? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the module or maybe being able to CV control mixing is not the big a deal I think it might be…

Anyhow, thanks for reading all of this. I eagerly await some more advice!

Thank you all for the kind words. Much appreciated. Keyboard skills? Hmmmm... at least I managed not to hit a note out of the scale. ;-) Still a work in progress.

I know it's nothing new, but I'm still digging the concept of triggering Marbles' clock with the keyboard gate and letting Marbles choose the note to feed to an oscillator. As long as Marbles is trained to play in the same key as what you're playing on the keyboard, that random note added to the main keyboard line has been very cool to noodle with.

Cheers.

Geez...I hate it when it does those gawdawful long URLs.
-- Lugia

https://reverb.com/item/40898075-electro-harmonix-flanger-hoax-flanging-phaser-modulator-pedal

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback on my post. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to give your honest appraisal and module suggestions.

Your post has given me few very useful hints regarding mono vs stereo in a modular rig.

Many thanks!

Ian

im not talking about CV inputs, im talking about another Dome filter to accept a 2nd external signal to shift the frequency by, replacing the internal VCO, like the Buchla frequency shifters have. no Bode unit has implemented this feature afaik
-- moremagic

Freak Shift from Sketchy Labs has 2 Dome filters.

1st piece of advice - bigger case!

yes I know the nifty is inexpensive and has midi and audio out built in, but you will almost definitely want to expand on these modules shortly after filling this case and therefore probably end up buying another one within a few months - this is a slippery slope - start off with something that will allow you to expand - I like the tiptop audio mantis cases - they are also inexpensive and have very good power supplies and are still quite portable

2 - for me at least the case is unbalanced

there are too many 'voices' and not enough support modules

a good scalable rule of thumb I like is:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

particularly there is no stereo mixing in the rack nor is there a buffered mult

plaits is a dual mono sound source, rings is a stereo sound source/modifier, beads is a stereo sound modifier/source - case only has one stereo input - you need a mixer - preferably one that can pan 2 mono signals to stereo and has multiple stereo inputs

each of these can accept v/oct - there are only 2 v/oct outs on the nifty case midi->cv (and I'm not sure if the keystep can sequence 2 parts at once anyway) use a buffered mult to accurately copy the v/oct to the voices - a passive mult will cause voltage droop which will make your voices out of tune (and you want them in tune if you are playing with others - so don't forget a tuner as well)

if I had to stay in this size case (which I wouldn't) I would dump the dreadbox modules and replace them with a veils, a stmix and a fx aid

I should probably say that each of the filters is on a different Stereo channel, that may or not be obvious with the Mimeophon set on Skew.

@GarfieldModular - Thanks, I need to look at working on something more slow in progression.

@Farkas - Punch is great, great for plucky blips and filter ascents, and sooo good for dirty acid lines with the Rebach VCF-AB.

@Lugia - The worlds longest URL courtesy of Reverb :) I'll have to have a listen to some Jarre see what you mean, I'll admit I'm not a massive fan of the Phaser sound but if it works in Oxygene I'll check it out. Cheers

This will be mainly used for jamming with a group and solo exploration. Looking to sequence it with the Keystep Pro.

Would greatly appreciate your feedback before taking the plunge.

Here's a link to a solo improvisation below.

Many thanks!

EDITED Aug 3rd 2021, 05:19

almost thought you was serious til you suggested modcan. good one lmao

BTW, if you're actually aiming for the Jarre sound, you'll want a couple of these laying around: https://reverb.com/item/40898075-electro-harmonix-flanger-hoax-flanging-phaser-modulator-pedal?bk=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJqdGkiOiJkMzk5N2U1Zi04YjU2LTQ0OTUtODA5NS1jMTZlZWE4NjQ2OTMiLCJpYXQiOjE2Mjc5NTQ3NjAsInVzZXJfaWQiOiIiLCJzZXNzaW9uX2lkIjoiYjAyZjYwMjgtNjQ1Ni00ZjYwLWFjMjEtOGU1ODBhODEzNTY3IiwiY29va2llX2lkIjoiNGY3NTU5NjItMzc5Mi00NDQzLTk5YWMtYjZhZDk1MjlhOGNmIiwicHJvZHVjdF9pZCI6IjQwODk4MDc1Iiwic291cmNlIjoiTk9ORSJ9.YQfCt-43lTDncYnf3c-l7-Jetvd2eHW-69wFtX_hh4w

Geez...I hate it when it does those gawdawful long URLs. Anyway, what that is is more or less a clone of the old Mu-tron Biphase, which pretty much no one can afford now. And while E-H recently discontinued this pedal, there's plenty of them on the used market still...although, the used prices are starting to look like what I paid for mine NEW, so if you want to pull the trigger on a couple of these, I'd suggest moving a little bit quickly. Anyway, Jarre's classic string-wash phasing (like on "Oxygene") uses a pair of the Mu-tron units for left and right channels of his string synth, sweeping out of sync with each other. The Flanger Hoax should get you to where that lives, though.

Hello Garfield,

Thank you very much for your interest. And i am really happy for your words.

https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/VoltAge
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/Whistle
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/T-Bounce
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/Overdrive

kind regards, best wishes

Well, let's look at this in more practical terms, then.

Buchla 285e = $1599 (wrong format)
Club of the Knobs 1630 clone = EUR 970 (wrong format)
Synth-werk's 1630 clone = EUR 1950 (also the wrong format)
Encore Frequency Shifter = $399 (but it IS Eurorack)
Modcan Dual FS = $349 (and two channels...this is the closest in terms of price vs function to the Behringer)
Synthesis Technology E560 = $339 (not purely an FS, though)
Tokyo Tape Music Center 185 = $580 (clone of the original Buchla 185)
Cwejman FSH-1 = $680

...and the Behringer comes in at $199. But with the possible exception of the Buchla 285e, you're dealing with small-run devices, which increases the cost. Behringer appears to be using their usual board fab methods, though, and it's far cheaper to have boards stuffed via automation and wave-soldered.

And in truth, if I could have any frequency shifter I wanted, I'd try and source the mid-70s standalone unit from 360 Systems. Of all of them that I've heard or used, IT is the best...with any cloned Bode-type coming in next. But if you've ever tried to find one of those 360 Systems ones, you'd know that it was something of a fool's errand to locate one. They almost NEVER appear on the used market.

Sounds great. Definitely has a Jarre vibe. Keep sharing the good stuff @wishbonebrewery.
I use that Patching Panda Punch in every patch nowadays. Such a valuable module.

Couple of things...first up, you really don't want a mono output, especially with that Beads in there. The output module also has connections for the Intellijel (I'm presuming that's what's specced here) case's 1/4" jacks, so those are a tad unnecessary, meaning you shouldn't have a problem adding in the normal stereo out. For that matter, I'd consider tossing the mult and scope tiles as well; scopes are nice IF you have room for them, but a 7U x 84 case like this doesn't have that room. And as for the mult, you can jam more functionality in by chucking it and going with inline mult widgets, since there's no need here for a buffered mult, apparently.

Better choices? Well, here's a layout for the tiles that makes loads more sense:

Now, here you've got another FX processor, which will be useful for "stereoizing" mono signals. And that dual stereo mixer gives you hot outputs for more modular processing while, at the same time, it also provides your stereo output at line level via a pair of the cab's 1/4" jacks, AND you can mix your FX tile's stereo out and the Beads' stereo out right there for your final mix balancing. Definitely more useful!

Hi Joystick,

Interesting rack, especially since I can't find any joystick module though your nickname is joystick ;-)

Have fun with your new rack and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

OMG thats true🤣🤣🤣 plannar look great...maybe in the second case....🤣🤣🤣

Hi Joystick,

Interesting rack, especially since I can't find any joystick module though your nickname is joystick ;-)

Have fun with your new rack and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Tunç,

Wow, that's a great track the Aquadrum, nice way you are using that aquadrum too! Beautifully played :-)

Ha, ha, Katana Zero Remix is from a completely different world, so to speak ;-) Nice to see you at work at your modular system there! Exciting music that is, wow :-)

If I have time, will have a look another time at the other stuff you have shared with us. Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

That synthesizer sound, the leading voice, wow, what a sound! That's great, sounds quite J.M. Jarre-ish to me ;-)

Nice jam once again! Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

already order half of the modules....

generate3,filter8, morph4, pam,boss bow,bloom, zadar,quadatt 1u, mult 1u

i think im on the good way....

Thanks for the info, I was just about to jump on an offer for one to add to a palette case. What rail presents an issue, exactly? Upper one? Lower one? Both? And do you think some filing down of the PCB could help? Had to do that with a MN Rosie once...
-- theneweuropa

You can't file the PCB. There are metal parts folded over the PCB on the ends. I can jam the thing in my pallet case, but you can have issues with the stuff near it because it bows the rails out wider. Especially bad in 4MS pods.

First patch with Acidrain Chainsaw, heading through HNVCF and Omsonic FLF before hitting Make Noise Mimeophon (Clocked). Feels like a match made in heaven, now I want to get a stereo filter like a Stereo Ripples or I bet a Patching Panda Moon Phase would be amazing. Patching Panda Punch VCA in use here too. Marbles for gates and pitches.

i've heard people say some good things about it, particularly when used as a matrix mixer. I've come close to picking one up a few times myself but then when i read the manual it gives me a headache trying to imagine remembering how to use the thing...if you haven't read it yet, check it out and then see if it changes your opinion at all https://uhedownloads-heckmannaudiogmb.netdna-ssl.com/manuals/eurorack/cvilization/CVilization-user-guide.pdf

Thanks dude :)

Thanks for the info, I was just about to jump on an offer for one to add to a palette case. What rail presents an issue, exactly? Upper one? Lower one? Both? And do you think some filing down of the PCB could help? Had to do that with a MN Rosie once...

is anybody using the u-he cvilization? it looks like a lot of functionality in a smaller module for those of us who don't have a big rig setup...just don't see a lot of discussion about it.

im not talking about CV inputs, im talking about another Dome filter to accept a 2nd external signal to shift the frequency by, replacing the internal VCO, like the Buchla frequency shifters have. no Bode unit has implemented this feature afaik

the bode shifter doesnt even have an external shift input, cmon -_0
-- moremagic

Sooooo... what might those three CV inputs do, then? One of those controls doesn't necessarily need that, but the others do...and also, there doesn't really seem to be space for the entire line of nomenclature that you'd normally see on a full-on 5U panel. At least, not if one likes reading panel labels without a microscope...

Nice vibes @wishbonebrewery, cool cat cameo too! Thanks for sharing

Youtube Link:

Katana Zero Sountrack Link: https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/KatanaZERO-OST

My Album Link: https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/voltagecontrolledmusic

Youtube Video:

Produced, Music, Mixed, Sound Designed, Synthesizers by Tunç Çakır

Album Links:
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/Overdrive

You can watch the video from the link:

Produced, Music, Mixed, Recorded Synthesizer, Programmed and Performed Synthesizer-Drum Machine, Acoustic Drums by Tunç Çakır
Scratch: Efe Çakır

Drums Recording: Alper Anık, Tunç Çakır (Gtr Deneyevi)

Please listen with a proper sound system or quality headphones.
There is no "sound replace" on the drums. The fully acoustic sound of the drum is toned. Only "shaker sampling" is used with drum machine.

Tunç Çakır - Aquadrum

My new electroacoustic album "Aquadrum"

Youtube Live Video Link:

Track on the album "Aquadrum"
Album Links: https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/aquadrum

Produced, Composed, Arranged, Programmed, Recorded Synthesizers and Drum Machines, Performed Aquadrum and Synthesizers, Mixed, Mastered: Tunç Çakır

Aquadrum Recordings: Tunç Çakır, Can Aykal
Label: Wic Recordings
Artwork by: Nourdin Kouch

Special Thanks: Deniz Güngör

This is a live recording. No external computers weren't used in this video. Only used hardware instruments.

http://www.tunccakir.com | http://www.wic-recordings.com

Copyright © 2021 Wic Recordings. All rights reserved.
All rights of the producer and owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performances and broadcasting of this record prohibited.

http://www.tunccakir.com/
http://www.facebook.com/tunccakir
http://www.soundcloud.com/tunccakir
https://tunccakirrr.bandcamp.com/
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/voltagec...
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/VoltAge
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/SquarePl...
https://tunccakirrr.bandcamp.com/trac...
https://tunccakirrr.bandcamp.com/trac...
(Katana Zero Remix)
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/Whistle
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/T-Bounce
https://wicrecordings.lnk.to/Overdrive

is this a second rack? (as you have called it an expansion rack)
what is in the first? or whatever you are expanding?

if it is an expansion then depending on the modules in the 1st case, it may work, but if not there are some issues

the es6 is an expander and needs es3 or es8 to work iirc

odessa is polyphonic (when the expander is added) and could probably benefit from a chord sequencer (harmonaig or sinfonion)

i'd want more mixing (but you may have this elsewhere) and not just for audio

where are your offsets and attenuators for example?

whilst random is good - it's better as a small part of something else (ie mixed and attenuated) and it may be a good idea to look at chaos as well as random (nonlinearcirucits do a lot of this)

EDITED Aug 2nd 2021, 08:56