the funny side is that the Modular scenes seem to don't give a damn..
Tried to work on this, but much of the on-hand modules are simply too big to be practical. Plus, I'm definitely NOT an advocate of building drum machines in Eurorack...and here's why:
An Erica Techno System = $4829
Actual used Roland TR-909 = $7000-ish.
Now, the problem here is that, for one thing, actual TR-909 prices should not be that close to a modular system. Worse still:
An Erica Techno System = $4829
Behringer 909 clone (RD-9) = $349
Now, that's the current clone of the TR-909. $4480 cheaper. With that, you could buy four WMD Performance Mixers...or 12.836 RD-9s. Behringer notwithstanding, that's a massive drop in cost.
Yes, I get it...modular presumably gives you more flexibility in sound design. But so will a drum machine with independent outputs per drum and a small rack of outboard processors...and you'd STILL come out ahead.
My suggestion is this: stop. Take a close look at the Erica rig, and start figuring out if you really DO need all of that, especially if it takes up so much room in the cab that everything else has to be a compromise of some sort or another. If so, leave it in its own case, then build up a second and smaller cab for a complimentary system that contains both synth voices AND processing for the Erica rack.
And think SMALLER. Huge modules are nice in a huge system...but in something like a Mantis, they SUUUUUUUUUUCK. This is a compromise you should get used to. If you want the big module functions, keep the following in mind:
1) It's going to kill space in the cab for a lot of things, potentially including the utility modules these big ones need.
2) There ARE smaller modules that do the same (or sometimes more) as the huge things. For example, that HUGE Vermona meloDicer...there's a few other modules that do the same thing (Stochastic Instruments' Stochastic Inspiration Generator, Catalyst's Time's Arrow, etc) but which AREN'T 34 hp. Nor are they $480.
There's definitely ways to make something like this work, both financially AND practically. But right now...hmm, not so much. Consider a separate system instead. Otherwise, this will just turn into a frustrating exercise in trying to fit modules into a rapidly-diminishing space for a pile of money.
I think you will eventually end up with something similar to what I have. Take a look at my Intellijel 1 and Intellijel 2 racks, they have quite a bit more in terms of fleshing out your voices.
-- greenfly
Awesome, thanks for that. Nice looking set ups you've got there. How are you finding the 4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator? Looks awesome from what I've seen, but not sure if it's something I should consider as it's quite large.
Not ALL drums should be mono. The reason for that old axiom traces back to vinyl and a VERY serious problem with high-amplitude, low-frequency sounds when they're being cut to a lacquer.
-- Lugia
That's good to know. Man you're a treasure-trove of information/history! I've learnt so much from this thread already. Just need to try and make it stick now, ha.
So at the moment I'm considering the following additions in the near future:
Then depending on how I find myself using the uO_c, maybe something like:
I am tempted by something like Maths to use alongside the illustrated guide, but I think I'd prefer more standalone modules as I fear it might be too complex for me?
I'd prefer to keep everything housed in the 1 case, so definitely need to be smart with my next purchases. Does what I've listed above make sense to cover the more ambient side of things? I feel like the current setup paired with the 0-Coast (once I get it) will cover all the 4/4 and deep house stuff. So the focus is on ambient now!
As for sequencing via the Digitakt, I'm even tempted to forego the FH-2 for something like a CV.OCD to save space, however I did stumble across the LPZW.modules TRAM8 3U, which is billed as being "ideal for Elektron users", but not sure if it's overkill if I were to get the Euclidean Circles/Steppy as it does seem very drum focused.
Edit: typos
Not ALL drums should be mono. The reason for that old axiom traces back to vinyl and a VERY serious problem with high-amplitude, low-frequency sounds when they're being cut to a lacquer.
Lower frequency sounds, on vinyl, are problematic since they require quite a bit of physical movement transferred to your stylus for amplification. But when they're being cut, not only do you have that consideration, but it's essential to check to make sure that NOTHING below around 120 Hz (or thereabouts...different lathe engineers have different "secrets" for this) is out of phase. If they're not, at worst you'll just have a bunch of defective pressings. But the worst-case scenario is when some VERY low-end signal (or a sneaky DC offset) gets to the cutter head, causing it to jump out of the groove it's cutting...or worse still, if the signal actually fries the cutter head because it's been sent a signal it's not physically capable of transferring. But this ONLY applies to vinyl; analog tape and digital sources don't involve a need to mono-ize the low end, unless it helps out musically.
Oh, yeah...scrolling, too. This refers to the width of the "field" between adjacent instances of signal. Some lathes do have a way to deal with this, by adding a "check head" to the tape machine that listens to the audio a fraction of a second before the playback head gets it, and that way, the lathe's scroll width can vary with amplitude. But not all lathes can do this, with the potential result being a record that sounds like this...like this...like this...like this...like this...
I think you will eventually end up with something similar to what I have. Take a look at my Intellijel 1 and Intellijel 2 racks, they have quite a bit more in terms of fleshing out your voices.
Good call on the -1db Lugia. I actually find myself 'normalizing' to way less than that to achieve balance between samples. db values and perceived loudness are very different at times.
-- wiggler55550
Yep...but the nice thing about only dropping the normalization level to -1 dB across ALL samples is that everything's more or less uniform, putting the control of the overall mix back into YOUR hands. Plus, there's literally no way for dithering and such to bump things over 0 dB because, while -1 dB might seem to be close to that, the fact is that on a PCM word level, it's a long way from it. And the ultimate spin comes all the way back from undergrad: 99% of all people cannot tell the difference between -1 dB and 0 dB. As a general rule, any amplitude changes between -3 dB and 0 dB are mostly imperceptible, and -3 dB is considered to be something of a perceptual threshold for an average group of listeners where one CAN detect a level change. Note that I'm NOT referring to electronic composers and/or performers here; WE tend to have a better ear for these sorts of things, probably from the simple fact that we spend a lot of time tinkering and twiddling with these minute control changes all the time.
... and after another longish session with this method (above) I would say it is good but not a panacea.
++It produces nice results on about 50% of the waveforms I feed it. It works best on saws and saw like things. On triangles and folded sines you end up hearing a kind of "swooshing noise" that is not so great. The more buckwild the waveform, the less likely it works with this technique so far.
++comparing this to my VSTs that do unison/stack/detune/spread like Serum and Icarus2, the VSTs get a more consistent result with various waveforms.
Net net, I currently think I'm getting a solid unison/stack/detune/spread result from modular using WS+Minsk, but i) the effect requires significant "dial in" efforts and ii) it doesn't work great on every type of waveform I'm throwing at it.
Update: I added AJH Wave Swarm and Xaoc Minsk (stereo width & m/s FX) to my setup. Initial experiments leave me 60%+ satisfied as far as unison/stack/detune/spread goes; it's not getting me the super-stack sound I would get out of Serum BUT its a considerable step in the right direction. I'm wondering if I will be able to further "tune in" my setup and patches for a more satisfying result. Again the reason I'm using WS+Minsk is to be able to do this to ANY waveform (and not just rely on a supersaw module).
If ya'll have any further ideas / comments, I'll be interested to hear. Thanks!
Thank you everyone ! You take the time to help me, and I learn a lot of things with you all ! I think my first rack will finish like this :
You think it can be usuable like this and I can enjoy for a moment like this ? Can’t afford the next rack with WMD mixers, effects and more modulation ms and utilities for the moment..
Thank you again, I appreciate a lot,
Kevin
Nice you have Techno System too ! Love it !
Sorry i had made some modification after my post in the forum… thats why it look complete when you click in my image.
Now you can see how it is now :)
Do you think Intellijel UVCA is enough for the moment or i need Intellijel Quad VCA ? Do i really need Sample and Hold ? Ring Modulation ? I dont understand how to use it and if i really need it… i am totally new to modular… OCHD look very nice for LFO, will ass it or Batumi ;) Thank you !Do you think i can use my modular like this and see after what i really need ?
For mixing and outputs i will buy another rack with WMD performance mixer and two others Vermona Twinout..Hmm, do you need ring mod and sample & hold. I think others would agree it really depends on what you're going for. Drones? Melodies? A bit of both? It think you definitely would use a quad VCA if you had it, because putting movement into a drone or a melody is key to bringing life to your patches. Ring modulation is an effect. In this system, I would look at another multi-effect (you already have a good one with Erica's Dual FX, but that will get used quickly even if sent to a mixer. If you're going to go big and get the performance mixer (VERY good choice), a couple multi-effects would be perfect to start. FXAid is of course great. So is the Erica Black Hole DSP, so is Milky Way. All of those are very much preset friendly and good for beginners.
Sample & Hold can be extremely useful for a broad range of audio and CV uses. Random melodies, random beats, random control of VCA's to randomize random movements in the spectrum! You don't need it, but investigate how it is used on YouTube and see what you like.
Consider a quad VCA, at least one multi-effect, an LFO generator and some kind of attenuator to really master control over as many parameters as you can.
All the other suggestions you're getting are terrific too. As always, endless possibilities and angles.
BTW, I think you can slave Drum Sequencer to the NerdSeq with very little effort. DrumSeq is really one of the greatest things I've encountered in Eurorack. So much fun to use and play. Hope this is all helpful!
-- ThePlate
This is very helpful ! Thank you so much !
So I tried to listen all your advices, and think I’m done for this rack ! I think I will choose Pamela new workout for random and some lfo, Intellijel quad VCA, and for Attenuator/ CV/level control will take the Vermona Amplinuator 3.
In my next rack I will put WMD Performance mixer, A multi effect (surely Erica Synths Black hole DSP 2) other modulations sources (Quadrax, Bastl Trinity, Kermit..), utilities (S&H and ring modulation, will learn more about these and check videos..) and other Vermona outputs (TAI-4, Twin outs)
So I think for my first rack, it will be finish like this :
Can you confirm it will be fully usuable like this to begin ? Can’t afford the next rack this year…
Thank you very much, Kevin
I'm creating a rig aimed at ambient & granular, and am interested in hearing about other people's favorite oscillators for ambient.
I've been out of modular for a while and there are so many more VCOs in just a few short years. I don't have a strict sound in mind, but I'd like to get something somewhat versatile. I don't have a preference for digital or analogue. It's likely I'll end up with two oscillators in any case. Thanks.
-- gumbo23
I just got the Instruo CS-L and it’s wonderful. Check it out!
I'm not going to give specific advice, but advice if I suddenly acquired your system and the things I would check.
My first consideration would be able to stop, start, and reset both the Nerdseq and the Erica Drum sequencer together. If I start playing one sequencer from the beginning, I should be able to slave the other. This might be done through MIDI or CV through clock and reset. I would look through both for Clock-In, Clock-Out, Reset-In, Reset-Out features.
Yes i asked to Erica Synths team and I can slave the Erica Drum Sequencer to Nerdseq easily or also use Drum Sequencer as master clock.
My second consideration would be a mixing. I'd just go Full-Monty and get the beast that Befaco makes. The Techno-System comes with a lot of sub-mixers. But I'd like to be able to take everything to one main performance mixer. Depending on what modules you get for the Befaco mixing system, you might not need the Intellijel VCA.
I was thinking to buy another 6U rack and take the WMD Performance mixer, another Vermona Twin out and the Vermona TAI-4.
Do you think Befaco Hexmix and expander is better ? I know there is EQ on the Befaco but I have a preference for WMD Performance mixer for the moment..
Third, utilities. How are you doing on sample&hold, logic modules, slew limiters, etc.
Will learn more things about those things. For the moment I will begin without those utilities in this first rack..Finally, modules like Plaits would be a great addition as they don't need a lot of support... just a gate and pitch CV. I'm assuming that the main focus is the Techno System and your other modules will support it. Add in a nice reverb and I think you're near golden.
For reverb I was thinking about Noise engineering Desmodus Versio, good choice ?
-- Ronin1973
Thank you !
Nice you have Techno System too ! Love it !
Sorry i had made some modification after my post in the forum… thats why it look complete when you click in my image.
Now you can see how it is now :)
Do you think Intellijel UVCA is enough for the moment or i need Intellijel Quad VCA ? Do i really need Sample and Hold ? Ring Modulation ? I dont understand how to use it and if i really need it… i am totally new to modular… OCHD look very nice for LFO, will ass it or Batumi ;) Thank you !Do you think i can use my modular like this and see after what i really need ?
For mixing and outputs i will buy another rack with WMD performance mixer and two others Vermona Twinout..
Hmm, do you need ring mod and sample & hold. I think others would agree it really depends on what you're going for. Drones? Melodies? A bit of both? It think you definitely would use a quad VCA if you had it, because putting movement into a drone or a melody is key to bringing life to your patches. Ring modulation is an effect. In this system, I would look at another multi-effect (you already have a good one with Erica's Dual FX, but that will get used quickly even if sent to a mixer. If you're going to go big and get the performance mixer (VERY good choice), a couple multi-effects would be perfect to start. FXAid is of course great. So is the Erica Black Hole DSP, so is Milky Way. All of those are very much preset friendly and good for beginners.
Sample & Hold can be extremely useful for a broad range of audio and CV uses. Random melodies, random beats, random control of VCA's to randomize random movements in the spectrum! You don't need it, but investigate how it is used on YouTube and see what you like.
Consider a quad VCA, at least one multi-effect, an LFO generator and some kind of attenuator to really master control over as many parameters as you can.
All the other suggestions you're getting are terrific too. As always, endless possibilities and angles.
BTW, I think you can slave Drum Sequencer to the NerdSeq with very little effort. DrumSeq is really one of the greatest things I've encountered in Eurorack. So much fun to use and play. Hope this is all helpful!
I'm not going to give specific advice, but advice if I suddenly acquired your system and the things I would check.
My first consideration would be able to stop, start, and reset both the Nerdseq and the Erica Drum sequencer together. If I start playing one sequencer from the beginning, I should be able to slave the other. This might be done through MIDI or CV through clock and reset. I would look through both for Clock-In, Clock-Out, Reset-In, Reset-Out features.
My second consideration would be a mixing. I'd just go Full-Monty and get the beast that Befaco makes. The Techno-System comes with a lot of sub-mixers. But I'd like to be able to take everything to one main performance mixer. Depending on what modules you get for the Befaco mixing system, you might not need the Intellijel VCA.
Third, utilities. How are you doing on sample&hold, logic modules, slew limiters, etc.
Finally, modules like Plaits would be a great addition as they don't need a lot of support... just a gate and pitch CV. I'm assuming that the main focus is the Techno System and your other modules will support it. Add in a nice reverb and I think you're near golden.
Given you have a nerdseq I would get the more cv expander, while the envelopes are not as crazy as a zadar, you get lots of modulation capabilities integrated with the nerdseq ( love this sequencer), and a quad vca is a great choice veils is preferred by many but very hard to source. I would give this a go then see what you feel you are still lacking. I have heard mixed opinions on zadar. You really only need a buffered mult if you are looking for multing pitch cv but it doesn’t look like this is a focus or need in this case, you could use some attenuverters like a 3xmia, and I don’t see any random modulation source, marbles, wogglebug, divkid random step. The tough thing is you have a lot of big showcase modules and not a lot of room for modulation, that’s why I think the nerdseq expander would be a great choice over an ochd as you get 16 more slots for lfos and envelopes.
Ah gotcha sorry for that! Anyways sounds like a fun plan.
Why not just buy an Erica Synths Techno System and save money and time? I mean you practically have one and your system would cost a lot more.
-- sacguy71
I already own the Techno System and all the module you can see in the rack above except Zadar, Buff mult and Intellijel UVCA !
Just want to know how to complete it, what is necessary (other enveloppe, Ring modulation, Sample and Hold, other utilities…) I am totally new to modular.. would like to know if my modular will be usuable like this or if I miss something important.. and if it’s usuable like this, what you will add for finish the 24HP free for the moment..
Thank you, Kevin
Hi! Oh cool, Techno System. I play mine both on its own and as part of larger systems. When I click on your image I'm going to a more complete system but I'm wondering if you could use more mixing and/or output. There are a lot of mixing channels in the techno system but from my experience that section does tend to fill up. The oscillators and effects need to go somewhere, Optomix is good but do you need more submixing for those prior to output? On the other hand, there is technically room for all the voices in the three techno system mixers, and it might be all you need. I'm curious as to where the Erica Link module went, that would actually be a terrific output for this system. Perhaps you've got this solved with other modules. It's a little big, but a Roland 531 would give you more mixing room and a lot of performance control. A DivKid OCHD would be something to consider as well, it would put a lot of movement into the system. I've gotten great results plugging OCHD into the TS, Drum Sequencer loves it. Good luck!
-- ThePlate
Thank you for your response !
Nice you have Techno System too ! Love it !
Sorry i had made some modification after my post in the forum… thats why it look complete when you click in my image.
Now you can see how it is now :)
Do you think Intellijel UVCA is enough for the moment or i need Intellijel Quad VCA ? Do i really need Sample and Hold ? Ring Modulation ? I dont understand how to use it and if i really need it… i am totally new to modular… OCHD look very nice for LFO, will ass it or Batumi ;) Thank you !
Do you think i can use my modular like this and see after what i really need ?
For mixing and outputs i will buy another rack with WMD performance mixer and two others Vermona Twinout..
Thank you again, Kevin
Why not just buy an Erica Synths Techno System and save money and time? I mean you practically have one and your system would cost a lot more.
Hi! Oh cool, Techno System. I play mine both on its own and as part of larger systems. When I click on your image I'm going to a more complete system but I'm wondering if you could use more mixing and/or output. There are a lot of mixing channels in the techno system but from my experience that section does tend to fill up. The oscillators and effects need to go somewhere, Optomix is good but do you need more submixing for those prior to output? On the other hand, there is technically room for all the voices in the three techno system mixers, and it might be all you need. I'm curious as to where the Erica Link module went, that would actually be a terrific output for this system. Perhaps you've got this solved with other modules. It's a little big, but a Roland 531 would give you more mixing room and a lot of performance control. A DivKid OCHD would be something to consider as well, it would put a lot of movement into the system. I've gotten great results plugging OCHD into the TS, Drum Sequencer loves it. Good luck!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities
If I could like all your comments I would. All the help has been great!
Hi everyone !
I need your help, ideas, advices for finish my first eurorack. I want to make mainly techno/Industrial/AcidTechno. I already own the Erica Techno System and all the modules in the 6U rack (except XAOC Zadar, Buff mult and Quad VCA)
I would like to hear your advice for finish this 6U rack. I know i need Mult, Enveloppe and VCA. Think about XAOC Zadar, Intellijel Buff mult and Intellijel Quad VCA. Do you have other ideas, modules who will pair well with what i have already ? I have 18HP free to complete my rack if i take Zadar, Buff mult and Quad VCA or 42HP if you have other suggestions :)
Thank you for your help,
Kevin
Good call on the -1db Lugia. I actually find myself 'normalizing' to way less than that to achieve balance between samples. db values and perceived loudness are very different at times.
If you look at the Salmple, it has four discrete voice outputs in addition to the mix out. By using the 4-in stereo mixer with it, you can have more control over the Salmple's sound...sources can be mixed the way you want, and panned in ways that give the Salmple an actual STEREO output instead of the single mono "mix".
-- Lugia
Yeah I can see that. Think I was just confusing myself with the whole "drums should be mono" statement, but that makes sense now as you're referring to the audio path re panning, etc. Looks like the A-138s shall be added to the wishlist then :)
If you look at the Salmple, it has four discrete voice outputs in addition to the mix out. By using the 4-in stereo mixer with it, you can have more control over the Salmple's sound...sources can be mixed the way you want, and panned in ways that give the Salmple an actual STEREO output instead of the single mono "mix".
Hey everyone,
Thought I'd provide a little update with how everything is going. Am having an absolute blast at the moment, but I can also see why everyone has been hammering the need for more utilities - so thought I'd see what recommendations you have for next modules to consider when the time comes.
Here's my current setup:
I'm not in any rush, but have been thinking about investing in a vpm.de Euclidean Circles to sequence the Squid with, as I find myself using a lot of the Pam's outputs for this, which I could probably put to better use elsewhere.
Keen to know what everyone suggests for the more ambient stuff I'm wanting to explore. Something like a Batumi/Stages, an attenuverter/attenuator and some mults perhaps? Maybe even a dedicated quantizer so I could free up the uO_c for other things even?
Also I did have a question regarding the the A-138s stereo mixer that @Lugia recommended for summing the Salmple outputs. What would the benefits of doing this be? Couldn't I just use the mix out like I currently am, or am I missing something?
Thanks!
in this build I would probably mix the mono sources using a vca then into fx aid (lots of mono->stereo algos) and then into beads and use that as end of chain - the matrix mixer I would use for modulation - not audio
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities
Yeah Shawn at AH and Nels at DM are super helpful, patient and great to buy from. I am trying to solve an issue on my new Make Noise Shared System right output jack not sending audio to my mixer correctly and they have been helpful.
a few more thoughts - depending on what other gear you have - a poly synth for example...
I would swap the chainsaw for a general cv - it's a eurorack implementation of general midi - so has loads of samples of real instruments - plus it can be expanded to be used as a polyphonic cv-> midi converter (possibly the best one out there for interfacing sinfonion with external poly synths) - & general cv will also double up as a percussion source!
agree with farkas - get vcv rack (although personally I dislike it) and consider a dc-coupled audio interface to interface the odular with it - these can be had for cheap - used RME interfaces or a bit more expensive and in rack es8/9
are you thinking of using the bitbox for drums? if not how are you thinking of using the metronome to 'add a cool drum transition at the end'?
building a mixer from scratch is a real pita - seriously check out the tex-mix - I really like mine!
I have something similar in terms of generative (marbles) and programmable (step fader, BSP - & thinking hard about a black sequencer) feeding a sinfonion (plus a pico seq - which I'm not at all keen on - for swapping song parts) for sequencing and maybe a couple more voices than necessary
you can check out my rack
which is something similar to what you are trying to do (NB left most section is mostly video synthesizer - some of the doepfer modules are used for both though) although this is slightly out of date - it's now spread over 8 cases not 6 as depicted
I agree with @farkas about going back to the drawing board too... step back as far as possible and start with what you requirements are - how many voices and what type - how do you sequence that, do you want programmatic or random or both - do you need percussion - much better in terms of price/features to go outside the box...
I'm looking forward to @Lugia's take they are often very interesting!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities
Hi Lugia,
Ha, ha, indeed that CV control of an offset voltage, that's seriously wild :-) I put this one on my wish list, in a way it looks more similar to the A-176 than the Voltage Source you previously mentioned. This Dual Offset Processor module provides that fine adjustment knob as well, same as A-176 does, so that's great! Thanks for this hint too :-) Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I forgot to tell you that I managed to get one of the last Doepfer - A-176 manual CV source modules that were left for sales. It's a great module, I use it for example to test multiples and indeed to create a steady offset or a steady input signal. It's good to know that EMW has something like this as well since Doepfer doesn't sell it any longer
-- GarfieldModular
Amazingly enough, EMW actually has TWO offset generators. There's the one I pointed out already...but there's also this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/emw-dual-offset-processor which not only is an offset generator, it also appears to have a modulated offset input, probably via an adder. Not exactly a typical module, but the idea of putting an offset voltage under CV control is pretty wild. All kindsa abuse potential!
Well, I think I can see what the problem is here...overall, this is a pretty good example of Sexy Module Syndrome, and the signal flow in there is going to be really convoluted if this all remains the same. Plus, there's A LOT of utilities that ought to be in there (VCAs!!!!!!).
I can see the point of the Metron. But at the same time, I think you're going to need to scale a lot of this build...Metron included...way back in terms of these huge modules. For example, it might look like a downgrade to go from the Metron to, say, this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tubbutec-6equencer-3u However, that Tubbutech module is pretty much the sequencer from the Roland TR-606, very workable on the fly and live, and it's got enough outputs to justify using it with the Bitbox as a dedicated trigger sequencer. If you want to go down this lane, those are the sort of choices you need to tackle...either some big module that's pretty spendy, or one that fits but isn't as glamorous.
I'm going to get back to this later tonight. I can see what the main idea is, but this will need a LOT of smackin' around to get it to make more sense...
[A few hours later...]
OK! Now, that's what I came up with. Much of it remained from your build above, but as I noted earlier, I did wind up having to pull some modules outright. Even so, this was a sizable PITA to work out because not all of those big modules could be dropped. However, most of those were retooled with smaller yet about as functional modules.
TOP: I put the main sequencers plus the Bitbox up top. The Bitbox needed to be located by the Tubbutech 606 sequencer for ease of use. Then we get into the oscillators; you'll notice a second Plaits, for starters. This is because while 1 VCO might be fat, 2 VCOs becomes downright obese! And that's all thanks to detuning one of a pair of VCOs slightly...ergo, two Plaits. Then the supersaw oscillator, and a Veils so that you can have amplitude control over those oscillators. Since the Veils has a "breakable" mixbus, you can mix the Plaits on VCAs 1 and 2 and sum that down to mono at output 2, while the Chainsaw would use VCAs 3 and 4, outputted directly so that you can maintain the Chainsaw's stereo field.
SECOND: Modulation and other things. You have the O&c first, then an ADDAC Intuitive Quantizer, which is a four-voice quantizer with user-definable scales and some rather comprehensive capabilities. This, of course, replaces the Sinfonion which frankly had a number of features that weren't needed here, such as a chordal engine, etc. It's also WAY smaller and WAY cheaper. After that, there's a Xaoc Batumi + Poti for 4 LFOs, then the soon-to-come Buchla (by Tiptop) 281t quad function generator. Think "Quadrax" but with a number of extra tricks, such as the quadrature functions and some useful internal signal mixing. Cheaper than a Quadrax, too. I went with a Lowgain CVP1 for the modulation mixing/processing and a Happy Nerding 3xVCA for modulation amplitude control. Last in the modulation is a Xaoc Zadar + Nin with four EGs, then Mutable's Blades dual VCF, which is actually part of the voicing...but the Metropolix forced that onto this row.
THIRD: First up is a little Doepfer multimodule, which in this case contains your noise source (with fixed filtering), random source, and sample or track-and-hold. This also gives Marbles some noise to chew on. Wogglebug's after that, and then a full-on Permutation completes the random-source section. After that, you'll notice a little 4-step CV sequencer...this is to deal with the loss of transposition capability that the Sinfonion had. By setting up your changes on this little sequencer, you can globally alter the key of the Metropolix or most anything else. Next is Maths, then your Mimeophon and Beads, located above the mixer for convenience.
BOTTOM: Added a PWRchekr at left, then the Mutant Brain and Pam's. And then the pile of little modules is a full-on timing and event extraction setup, which is going to be pretty necessary for making all of the sequencers jump around nicely...it works like this: First module is a dual trig/gate delay. A second pulse divider (the main ones are in the Pam's) then allows for some strange numerical series in division. The compliment to this, the Multiplier/Ratchet Gen, is next, then a small module from Adventure Audio lets you pick off per-count trig/gates. And the key to this entire section is next, a Frequency Central Deep Thought, which is a Boolean logic module. Boolean logic is essential to getting some rather complex time alterations, since they take in two pulse signals and, depending on the gate type, can output a gate based on the coincidence of pulses...or not. It all depends on which gate you use and what you feed it with. After the logic, there's a Xaoc pulse summer, then a module to calculate the minimum and maximum across up to four inputted voltages, followed by a Derivator that outputs several gates, all dependent on voltage motion. The ANA then carries out some math operations on incoming voltages, and lastly there's a Joranalogue Dual Window Comparator...these output a gate when certain voltage thresholds are crossed, and since this is a window comparator, you get more than just the one threshold crossing. After all of the timing modules, the Bastl ABC works as an extra dual submixer to sum signals before passing them on to the mixer, a Toppobrillo Stereomix2. This mixer has your final VCAs for level, but also can pan and set AUX send levels via CV as well. This also has a CUE function for the headphone preamp, which is a godsend if you have to retune on the fly. Mono AUX send, stereo return...but only one of the latter, which is why I put the Bastl Ciao! in, as it has a second stereo in that can be mixed with the Stereomix2's output, letting you use both the Mimeophon AND Beads in parallel routing...which gives you a lot more control over the mix between your dry and wet signals. This also gives you a second headphone preamp, a few more metering LEDs, and your 1/4" stereo output pair.
This wasn't exactly fun, however...with much of the blame going to the case itself. It could be possible to get all of those big modules back in there along with much of the changes you see here, and then some. But sticking with this 4 x 104 cab is a definite drawback; I'd rather see a bit LESS density here, tbh, as I think this might have some ergonomics issues. But the main thrust here was to provide an alternate example, with errors corrected and some new concepts tossed in. However, if you took this to 120 or 126 x 4, it would be possible to reduce the number of tiny modules, which would make this a bit easier to program. Still, it's not THAT far off the mark.
Hi Lugia,
I forgot to tell you that I managed to get one of the last Doepfer - A-176 manual CV source modules that were left for sales. It's a great module, I use it for example to test multiples and indeed to create a steady offset or a steady input signal. It's good to know that EMW has something like this as well since Doepfer doesn't sell it any longer... I might want that as a second module, these simple but oh-so useful utility modules are, what makes Eurorack so great :-)
Thanks for that hint and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Hi Lugia,
Okay sounds good and thank you for the information :-) He, he, yes the question is how original did Uli left those modules. Well, since the company of whom we shall not speak ;-) does usually a "good copy/paste" job, I guess we don't need to worry too much there then...
Yes indeed, the beauty of Eurorack is that there is most of the times (are you sure it's always? :-) ) a solution to be found somewhere
Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Just remember to avoid the very top end of the dynamics when normalizing. Normalization to 0 dB will STILL result in occasional digital clips. I use -1 dB as my normalization standard, as it's sufficiently loud while, at the same time, it's far enough away from fullcode to avoid generated clipping from dithering, etc.
Hi Ronin1973,
The Doepfer A-138m Matrix mixer can be used in stereo operation too. Just use for example inputs 1 & 3 as your left inputs and inputs 2 & 4 as your right channel inputs. Then with the 16 knobs you can do panning. You can create either two times a stereo output, or what I usually do, just one stereo output, meaning output channel 1 is my left channel out and output channel 2 is my right channel out, those two outputs then to any Audio Interface module to output it to an external mixer. Seems to work quite well.
Or you can use it as 4 mono inputs and one stereo output (or two stereo outputs) or you could even do one stereo input (for example input channels 1 & 2) and two mono inputs (channels 3 & 4 in this example) and again one (or two) stereo output(s).
So... I don't see the non-stereo issue, for me this is stereo enough :-) One even could extend it to a quad output (instead of one or two stereo outputs) :-) Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I noticed that you now have the FX Aid and Beads. They both have stereo outputs. The matrix mixer was recommended, but it's mono. So that limits you to four mono inputs.
I would go with something that is stereo for your main mixer, like an EMW stereo mixer. 8 stereo inputs, leaving you six stereo inputs for the rest of your rig. Matrix mixers are a nice-to-have item. But not for this build.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/emw-8-channel-stereo-mixer
Also, there are too many VCAs for the size of the rack. The Happy Nerding or the Intellijel could go and you'd be fine. That space would be better suited for other resources. I like the Intellijel unit. But the Happy Nerding makes more sense for the size of the rack.
As far as mixers go, it kind of depends, while the WMD performance mixer is great you could get away with something like the cosmotronic cosmix, you definitely can get more value with an external mixer and save the HP.
I agree this is a bit weak on VCA's.
I find sequencers are a very personal item and really depends on the workflow you are looking for. I have several and each has a purpose, one I don't think is mentioned a ton but is my favorite so far is the NerdSeq, as far as step based sequencing I don't think there is a more powerful sequencer 10 tracks (6 modular and 4 sample/audio including fm voices). While I wouldn't consider the sample tracks a comparison to a dedicated sampler (limited memory) they are a nice to have for some added spice, or you can use these as basic oscillators including 2 or 4 operator fm.
I try not to emulate the gear choices of artists as this rarely works out, what workflow works for one artist won't likely work for another. I remember when I was young I brought my drum kit to a party and another drummer used my kit and pretty much showed me I had a lot to learn because I never heard my kit sound so good, I never was able to reproduce his "tone" on my kit. Same kit different artist, completely different result. Its your instrument to develop your workflow and your sound.
If you really want polyphony you are better off getting a polyphonic synth, it can get really expensive really fast in euro and still be a struggle to dial in a sound as quickly as a good poly synth will. State Azure is a good example of a mixed mode artist that incorporates lots of different gear and is not strictly modular and that gives a lot of flexibility and can save a ton in costs.
As others have mentioned, start small. Sound source (plaits is great because it is so versatile with built in lpg/vca), a way to sequence and a modulator, Maths is a great choice. Start here the perhaps add some fx, Beads or an FX Aid, and away you go.
Pip Slope, I think there are better options Maths has great envelopes. I think Acid Rain Maestro is a great clocked modulation source when you start reaching for more modulation, and if you want more function generation/envelopes you can always add a make noise function or a joranalogue contour 1.
I have several Instruo modules they are great, but on the expensive side. I think there are better options here as well. The Dixie II+ is a great analog voice.
As far as samplers go, I think the Assimil8or is the best eurorack sampler hands down, it is a bit expensive but worth it and I have a 1010 blackbox standalone unit and am a fan of 1010 in general.
You definitely have a lot of quality modules but I wouldn't just march down this list because where you start after you have a few modules and a better idea of what you can and want to achieve I assure you will change where you end up.
To add to what Jim mentioned, I would really recommend revisiting what kind of gear bands like Tangerine Dream were working with. It was often very simple analog gear, at least in the early days. A few analog oscillators and filters (Moog, Roland, Arp, etc.), simple 8 step sequencers like the Doepfer or Behringer (though I would recommend the Winter Modular Eloquencer for your purposes), dotted eight note delay, etc.
I would go back to the drawing board on your plan. You can likely achieve what you want to do in a much less expensive manner.
As a follow-up question, what gear do you already have?
Well personally for a complex sequencer, if I were you then I would go with an Eloquencer, Vector 512 or Erica Synths Black Sequencer over the Metron for what you are looking to achieve. I have the Metron and the other sequencers except for the Black Sequencer. The problem with Metron is that it is not great for sequencing pitch or cv even with the add on Voltera module. It’s great as a gate drum sequencer. You want the ability to create complex ratcheting and random evolving patterns which are tough to do on the Metron.
Thanks for all the tips jim! I do have a few things I would like to share tho.
1: I totally agree that metronome is complete overkill. It’s been a long battle between the tubbutec sixquencer and the metron and still no real winner. I like how compact the sixquencer is, but i want something more ergonomic like the metron. The algorithm by grayscale seems appealing, but i do like the idea of ≥16 steps in case i want to add a cool drum transition at the end. (After thinking about it, I’m just going to go with the algorithm.)
2: the mixer situation as been another long and arduous journey as well. I had the hexmix and hexpander in the blueprint a while ago, but that took up an assload of space and i just decided to scrap it, I’m thinking about diy’ing an 8 channel stereo mixer in the same form factor as the mutable instruments frames / blades, but I don’t understand breadboard schematic and have never been able to find a blueprint for a mixer online.
Thanks for all the help!
Excellent well I do also recommend download free software VCVRack and try building a similar rack. It will be great experience and helpful in your planning and learning process at no risk.
Whoops! Forgot to mention that I don’t and have never owned any modular synths before. This is future planning.
Jim's advice is spot on. Ditch the Bitbox , STMix module, and Metron sequencer. Get a massive mixer like WMD Performance Mixer or the Befaco Hexmix. I have the Befaco Hexmixer and love it.
I hope it's an exercise in planning rather than you have all theses modules and you're stumped!
in addition to farkas' excellent questions - here are some thoughts:
sequencing/quantising: there is massive overkill even for using sinfonion - I recommend 4-5 sequencer channels - if you want to add more random then a single permutation/pachinko is sufficient - personally I would go for Marbles instead of either pachinko is a clone of marbles and less ergonomic - and marbles is like a triple turing machine - which permutations is derived from - one of the sequencer channels should be completely independent (ie run at a different speed/separately clockable) and programmable - this is for switching song parts in sinfonion
metron is a trigger sequencer - mostly used for programming drum patterns - I think this is completely superfluous - unless you are planning on using the bitbox for
I would try to think in terms of
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities + sequencing and final mixing
I would also when trying to emulate tangerine dream (or any other music based around multiple movements within the same piece of music) think in terms of layers of modulation - how to alter volume of parts over time?
sound sources: I see 3 modules - plaits, t-sl v2 and chainsaw - plus the bitbox (which I know nothing about) which I am assuming that you are intending to use for another 3 voices - you really want 8 v/oct inputs for voices - so this seems about right in terms of number - not what I would have picked but fair enough - that's personal taste - although I would probably want 2 or 3 of the same analog vco
vcas: definitely very light on the vca front - 4 vcas (yes I know that plaits has a built in lpg) I would want at least another couple of quad vcas in this case - they are needed for much more than note shaping - automated volume control over time and modulation for 2, which brings us to -
envelopes/modulation sources: there might be just enough envelopes, but then there will be a lack of controllable lfos - I would be tempted to add zadar and batumi and a matrix mixer to make modulation more interesting - mix modulation sources - possibly might need a couple - I might remove o&c
sound modifiers: plaits has a built in filter/lpg and chainsaw is stereo - the filters you have are mono so would work with individual outputs from the bitbox and the t-sl - I would probably dump all of them in order to get 1 or 2 more ergonomic mono filters and add a stereo filter for the chainsaw - I'd also want more in the way of general effects - a single mimeophon and beads are not really going to cut it for that many sound sources - I'd probably add at least a couple of fx aid xls, probably more
utilities: not really enough in this size - I've covered vcas and to some extent mixers (matrix mixers) above, but you will almostt definitely want more mixers - for panning and cross fading I would learn to patch these from vcas, lfos etc, but there is not a lot in the way of other basic utility functions - I would spend a decent amount of time researching all the different sorts of utilities and how they are used and an equal amount of time thinking about how these can be incorporated in your patching of this synthesizer (I'm talking weeks or months here not minutes or hours)
end of chain: how are you planning on listening to this? personally I think the eoc mixing solution you have here is woefully inadequate - I would look at the equivalent of a battleship eoc mixer - either the wmd performance mixer or something that is expandable such as the tesseract modular tex-mix (I have this one) which is extremely flexible as it is expandable 4 channels of mono or stereo at a time (and better yet more cost effective and lower power consumption than the wmd perf mixer)
I'd also want some effects on the send bus of the mixer - probably some reverb and I personally like the lofi setting on the fx aid as an eoc effect - so possibly another couple of fx aids and/or a very nice stereo reverb - the new strymon starlab looks and sounds very good for this role
if starting from scratch go very slowly - build a single voice chain (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier, some utiltities) and work from there maybe planning to add another module or 2 every few weeks or months towards something similar to this over a period of a couple of years - otherwise you will probably be overwhelmed
additional after looking at the bitbox further - if you are intending on using this as a sample player for 3 melodic voices + some percussion - I would probably want a more sampler with more channels - or multiples of this - I'm not going to recommend anything for that though as I know nothing about samplers in eurorack
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities
Do you already have all of these modules? What is it that you feel is missing? Are you having trouble getting the tones, sequences, or mixes that you want?
I’m trying to make a state azure/ tangerine dream style rack in the least possible space, but it feels like something is off. I don’t know what it is, but a gut feeling is telling me that something is hindering my progress, not helping it. Can someone at least try and help?
No, the 1010 Bluebox is a stand alone mixer recorder desktop solution and not a Eurorack module. It has connections for modular using standard patch cables. Here is more info
https://1010music.com/product/bluebox
It doesn’t do sampling or looping just mixer and record and playback.
Quick test with your suggestions:
