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I think the Mantis is probably the best "starter case" at present. It has loads of current reserve from a tried and true P/S design (taken from the uZeus), it's portable while having ample module space, and it's got a really snazzy method for adding a second Mantis. Tiptop even offers a gig bag sized for it.

Bought a filter from @tom_android recently

Was well packed and arrived quickly (was very surprised, and pleased it arrived before Christmas)

Hey y'all! this is my first post on Modular Grid, I started into eurorack this year after spending a lot of time in vcv rack and falling in love with the potential of modular, plus it's just so much fun! my goal is to make a system that can do lots of textural sound design stuff as well as percussion//bass in the industrial techno genre. Outside of my rack I have a Digitakt, Lyra 8 and a few FX pedals.

currently out of these modules in the list above the ones I actually own already are
- Rene v2
- Zlob F3DB
- Xaoc Belgrad
- Beads
- Pams
- Zlob 3 channel attenuator with sum output
- Zlob Diode Chaos
- Noise Engineering BIA
- Beffaco stmix
- Noise Engineering Sono Abitus output module

The rest of the modules I put in because I think they'd fit well but I have no idea if I have enough utilities or if this layout is completely non-user friendly, this is where I could really use some help if you can take a look at it and give me some advice.

Thank you.

EDITED Dec 26th 2021, 00:34

thanks for the tip! i was hoping to stack my doepfer 9u/84hp on top of the base. i may just have enough width for 104hp and the 9u is presently sitting on an empty neutron box so this may work and save me $150

EDITED Dec 25th 2021, 19:58

speaking of which, have cases become insanely expensive!? i'd be paying almost $900 cdn (~$700 U.S.) for a new doepfer a-100lcb!!! i need a 'base' case for my space restrictions. are there any other alternatives? that $900 is almost 1/4 the price of a buchla easel and doesn't even make a sound. unless i drop it. i think doepfer can drop the 'LC' from that catalogue number.
-- FatBerg

The Tip Top Mantis case (same size) is ~560$ at Nightlife Electronic / Moog Audio.

[Nightlife] (https://nightlife-electronics.com/collections/cases-power/products/tiptop-audio-mantis)
[Moog] (https://moogaudio.com/products/tiptop-mantis-2x104hp-eurorack-case-blue-usa)

ya, that is the beauty of these tiptop buchla modules, standard 3u and will fit in any euro case and i can buy them as my finances permit as opposed to dropping $4000 cdn on a buchla easel command in one shot. i think i calculated around 130hp for 1 of each of the 6 modules so the 6u/84hp case i was thinking of buying might even be a little small with little room for expansion for further 200t modules.

speaking of which, have cases become insanely expensive!? i'd be paying almost $900 cdn (~$700 U.S.) for a new doepfer a-100lcb!!! i need a 'base' case for my space restrictions. are there any other alternatives? that $900 is almost 1/4 the price of a buchla easel and doesn't even make a sound. unless i drop it. i think doepfer can drop the 'LC' from that catalogue number.

EDITED Dec 25th 2021, 16:20

Oh yes! I loved last year's compilation, can't wait to get the 2021 one. I'll be sending my track right away!

What do the 4x CV inputs do? is it one for each pot?

Is the the Drum Out just like it says then the Audio out is everything else without the kick?

In that case they showed on the preview videos are about 20 Modules and i am not sure if thats all they plan to do. So thats the first 4 K (with an average module price of 200 which is a low estimate).
-- znort101

Uhhhhh...no. There are ONLY SIX modules in the initial Tiptop run. And there's only nine modules in that Mantis above.

And a price point of $200-400 makes perfect sense here, tbh. For one thing, Tiptop's been around for a long time, so they have the know-how to keep that price down. Secondly, these don't have the "e bus" that allows for remembering the control (but NOT the patch itself) positions, which is a big part of why those 200e 4U modules cost like they do. So what these are are Don's "post-CBS" designs from the early/mid-1970s, meaning that they can use cheaper and readily available components, they can use board fab automation instead of hand-stuffing boards, high-speed panel manufacturing and graphics, and so on to replicate these older Buchla modules.

Another possibility: a Quadrax + Qx. By chaining the EOR points on the Qx to each next EG and proceeding to loop things back from EOR on the 4th EG to the start on EG 1, you get this constant "strum"...with voltage control by using CV over the "attack" (in this case, it's referred to as "rise") so that you can make the "strum" longer, shorter, or more/less erratic. Works nice with VCAs, too...like having a Veils on a complex VCO with numerous waveform outputs.

I definitely agree on the "larger case" suggestion. Also, don't expect to get much done with a Maths and a Rings, as there's not really a proper "generator" in that signal path. You can force the Rings into self-oscillation, but then it's a PITA to control. Conversely, you could try clocking the Maths up into the audio range...if there was an LFO that could serve as a clock in the first place.

You could proceed into a second Cre8 skiff by joining it to the first with their case coupler...but then you've got an issue in that you've got two sets of the case's I/Os, and you really only want one. Nor can you interconnect the busses from one case to the other without wasting functional space in both. Sure, they've got good current specs...but you'll be better off building that build "that is versatile that I can explore sound with" in a case that has space for that to happen.

One other suggestion: https://vcvrack.com/ This is a link to VCV's site, and what VCV is is a "Eurorack emulator". This will let you do a lot of exploring (up to the limit that your computer can handle) and getting used to what proper synths should have to let them do what they're capable of. And it's FREE, plus later you can upgrade to a paid version that includes a VST plug to use VCV directly within your DAW.

So, to fit in the Doepfer A-100PB, there won't be patch cables in the top half of the top row..... (all mods in top row need patch points in bottom half of module).

EDITED Dec 25th 2021, 00:24

In that case they showed on the preview videos are about 20 Modules and i am not sure if thats all they plan to do. So thats the first 4 K (with an average module price of 200 which is a low estimate).

Not sure what the purpose of your post is.
If you are interested wait for them and buy them when available and if you have the money.
And be prepared to invest about 3 or 4 K for the beginning for a case like shown in those videos.
-- znort101

The purpose of his post was to inform everyone of the email that TipTop sent out about the status of their new modules if it isn't that apparent? Also, why would I have to prepare to invest 3 or 4K for a new case? I'm going to get the Buchla 257t and incorporate it into my Rackbrute 3U build that is attached to my Minibrute2. What is the purpose of your post?

Not sure what the purpose of your post is.
If you are interested wait for them and buy them when available and if you have the money.
And be prepared to invest about 3 or 4 K for the beginning for a case like shown in those videos.

So after years of being on the fence I’ve decided to dive into eurorack. I have an idea that I feel like is mostly fleshed out but I’m worried I might be over looking Something basic yet crucial. So far I have purchased a niftycase, maths and rings from mi. I want to add plaits, ripples, shades, veils, and tides to fill up the rack. My goal is to have something that is versatile that I can explore sound with. Any opinions and advice would be great!
-- Eros222

You're not going be able to be very 'versatile' with only 84HP and especially if you already have over 1/4 of that occupied with Maths and Rings...both great modules but with only 84HP you will need to consider using much smaller modules that pack in a lot of flexibility...for example Disting EX, Ornament & Crime, FX Aid,

I think the first big recommendation you'll get from most will be to consider a bigger rack. I have the Rackbrute 6U and a Rackbrute 3U...but I use them in conjunction with other synths (6U with my Hydrasynth Desktop and the 3U with my Minibrute 2)...I can also use the 3U and 6U together (which is the swap/mix and match flexibility I wanted and planned for).

What are planning to output to? DAW, speakers directly? That will have some influence on what you add to your build as well and others on the forum will be much better at providing recommendations overall than I can...just be prepared for the "you're gonna need a bigger rack" discussion. Also, if you haven't already...you should build the rack and post it here in your thread.

I went with the Mother 32 for my first semi modular piece. It's basic, but checked all the boxes I was looking for.. subtractive sound, filter, eg, lfo, mutl, vc mixer, etc, etc.... look at the DFAM if you want something that cannot be replicated with other modules.

latest tiptop newsletter Dec 24th, 2021;

"A quick holiday update on the Buchla production process

for the 258 & 281 Super Exciting Newsletter Headline

The robots have finished placing the parts on the 258 and 281 circuit boards. Now it is time for humans to start to test, calibrate and hand select the remaining critical parts. The front panels are now in the machine and in the next few days should be ready to get their graphics on.

Release date looks like mid January at this point. Once we are ready we will send another newsletter to let you know and also inform the shops they can open up for pre orders.

Have a happy and safe holiday!

Buchla and Tiptop Audio Team"

EDITED Dec 24th 2021, 13:52

So after years of being on the fence I’ve decided to dive into eurorack. I have an idea that I feel like is mostly fleshed out but I’m worried I might be over looking Something basic yet crucial. So far I have purchased a niftycase, maths and rings from mi. I want to add plaits, ripples, shades, veils, and tides to fill up the rack. My goal is to have something that is versatile that I can explore sound with. Any opinions and advice would be great!

I started with the 2 CV jack version, and didn't gel with it at all. He sent me the 4 CV jack version (this one), and it's a whole different story. And I tell you the Zadar is this thing's best friend (with s/h modulation from ModBox). I have 4 Error Instruments modules, and this is my favorite at the moment. I find the way he implements his CV inputs pretty frustrating. For example you can't use Maths without some external voltage offset. Zadar has nice 0 to 10 volt output adjustment, so it's plays well with EI.

"Really looking forward to the Tip Top Buchla modules!"
i'm with you on that! the buchla easel command was always just out of reach for me and now i may get something better on the easy payment plan. c'mon tiptop, make it a jolly x-mas on this covid ravaged planet!

I like it with Ripples however I have v1. I think the key to this module is using an envelope with a slower attack. It also works beautifully with delay

I like to use it with my System 80 Jove, if you sequence the lead voice separately, it can go into the 2nd input and that's kinda nice. I feel like smoother/ less acidic filters are better? otherwise maybe try a SEM close or something

Really looking forward to the Tip Top Buchla modules! I cannabilized modules from monster case to use for portable setups so could use a few Buchla modules later on. Wish Random Source would make their Serge modules for Eurorack affordable as well.

Should. The nice thing about this being Tiptop doing the reissues is that their lines are carried all over the planet. Not quite up to the level of Doepfer (ie: just dig up your backyard and you stand a chance of finding a Doepfer module!), but they're definitely on a roll.

Is there some reason WHY there's no VCAs in this? That's sort of like buying a car with no tires...

Patch notes:

Main weird thing here is that the melody gate, and percussion/VCA triggers, Shakmat Bishops Miscellany (SM), Bastl Kompass (BK) are being clocked by the kick drum pattern which is the main sequence on a Minibrute 2s. The only exception is the snare, which is clocked normally and triggered by 2hp Euclid.

Kick and snare are Samples coming from a Disting. Kick is triggered by BK Altitude pattern and is also being reset by a slow synced LFO from the Minibrute.

Tides is in audio rate fractions mode in the major range, being VCAd (Doepfer A135-2) by BM random gates. The pitch is taking the Minibrute main sequence, and adding with a T43 to random CV from BM, sent through a Penrose gated also by the BM random gates. This pitch also feeds 2HP Pluck, which is gated by Kompass Longditude.

Plaits is doing the reverb washy 2nd snare type stuff, trigged by Kompass Latitude.

Pressure minibrute seq line is triggering BIA for hatty sounds later on.

EDITED Dec 24th 2021, 01:41

Out of curiosity, does anyone use headphones out of their AI?

I almost exclusively use monitors for mixing, but curious if studio headphones are ok for just playing around?
-- cj18

They're OK for basic sound design, but I know for a fact that mixing on headphones brings in some bad issues having to do with the "actual" soundstage vs. what your brain makes up as a "soundstage" from the two headphone drivers. Check this for the actual physics and voodoo: There ARE ways to correct this issue with hardware though, but the ones that actually work aren't cheap. In essence, doing a final mix on "cans" is just a really bad idea, as they can't give you a REAL idea of what's going on spatially. And we didn't even get into human hearing's proximity effects when dealing with having a driver within an inch of your inner ear. That can easily give you a very wrong impression of how your low end sounds.

Stick with the actual monitors. You can always get a monitor mix to "translate" to headphones, but going the opposite way has a lot of issues.

Thanks Garfield! No worries, it is good experience learning how to clean up audio files recorded.
I am working on a modular album and building my sound library of recordings that will be edited, remixed and remastered by end of next year.

Hi Gimbalgambit,

Yes your 1. request is great, I would like to see indeed planned modules in my rack but dimmed or greyed-out or whatever is easy to implement. It would be good to have that as key combination or something like that while building the rack. For my own use, I don't need your reference to my Collection, but if that's easy to implement as well, why not? :-)

Rack statistics, is of course a lot of fun if easy possible, however if things needs to be prioritised, I think to have the option of planned modules in your rack that are somehow dimmed/greyed-out would be seriously fantastic.

Great idea!

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hello,
Here is a rundown of my current Eurorack Case:

1. The case is a Behringer Go case. It is cheap and works fine for me.

2. Voices:
   a. Erica Synths: Fusion VOC2, Pico VCO 2, Fusion VCF, 2xBlack EG, For VCA I use the CV in of Texmix Mono Channel Module.
   b. The Pico System III is used for max 2 Voices with the 2 OSC, ENV + LPG. Here I use Error Instruments Outboard Attenuator for the EG to LP.
   c. Drum Base: Here are several Modules in use. 2HP VCO for the Sine Wave --> Fusion VCA (for Distortion) --> Percall. Percalls Envelope out is used attenuated (Pico system Mixer) into the FM CV in 2Hp VCO.
   d. For Snare an Hi Hats I use the Noise from Black Modulator and Percall. Snare is Filtered by the 2HP LPF.
   e. Rample is used for additional Drums or Sounds triggered by the Nerseq.
   f. Distinct ex is used as Poly Sample/Wave player.
   g. Nerdseq have two additional Wave Player. Currently is used for the CLAP Sample.

3. Sequencer: Obviously the Nerdseq is the main Sequencer. Also the SEQ from Pico System 3 is used as Bassline Generator in conjunction with the Pico Quant.
   First 3 Tracks are used for the first 3 Voices (Midi Channel 1-3)
   Track 6 is used for Drum Sequencing with the "More Trigger" expansion.
   Track 8 is used for 4 Poly Distinct Ex (8 Notes are is not possible in one Track)

4. Midi: Main Input for my Keystep is the TubeTec Midi USB Bridge a. Then a TRS Cable to the Nerdseq. The Midi Output from Nerdseq is connected to the Distinct ex Module.

5. What was important for me was a Stereo Mixer in the case with Fx possibilities. For this I have the Texmix.
   Channel 1-4: Percall Base, Snare, Hi Hats
   Stereo 1,2: Rample Outputs.
   Stereo 3: Distinct ex Stereo Output
   Stereo 4: Nerdseq build in Samples
   Channel 5: Erica Fusion Voice
   Channel 6,7: Pico Voices
   Channel 8: not used
   Aux 1,2 are send to Pico DSPs
   Monitor is send to the Black Dual VCF wich enable me to switch every voice to it with the CUE Switch. If the 2 Filter are linked and the CV Attenuverter is set in opposite direction a LFO can make a nice Filter/PAN Effect.

Some thoughts:
* Erica Synth Pico System III was often helpful as a small Toolbox if I need some extra module
* I Still miss some Attenuvertes
* A Turing Maschine Like Module would be nice
* Nerdseq is very helpful to provide additional Lfos and Envelope generators

Sound Example:
https://soundcloud.com/iron_at/bb-tenko

Ok, that's all I have to share, maybe someone find this helpful.

ps.: Still, i have the feeling i need a bigger case :-)

And hopefully it comes soon after that to Europe too

Hi Sacguy71,

Oh yes! This is so much better in stereo :-)

Ha, ha, sorry for the struggle I gave you with my feedback, on the other hand it sounds like you had a good exercise with it ;-)

Nice composition you got here and kind regards, Garfield.

I have loved using MG; thank you for building it!

I have three things I'd find really useful:

1. I really enjoy using racks to build/plan my "wishlist" of modules that I'd like to buy and figure out where to put the new ones... so some of the modules in my rack I own already (and they're in my Collection), but others I don't yet own. It'd be amazing to be able to dim them (e.g. put a 50% opacity solid black/white div over the image) as "placeholders". That way I can see where I'd like to put the modules I haven't bought yet, and at a glance tell which I have and which I don't have. A small add-on would be to show two total cost numbers for the rack: total, and total to buy (wishlist, or things not in my Collection). A toggle in the rack settings ("Dim things not in my collection") would let people opt-in to this display mode. I'd guess this could be based on the "in Collection" boolean/flag for each module.

2. The total-rack power values are great, but sometimes I toggle back and forth between the Data Sheet view and the Rack view to see row-by-row statistics (which are at the bottom of the DS table). It'd be fantastic to be able to turn on/off a row-statistics view to the side of the rack, aligned with that row. Module count (passive count, too, but not as important to me), and power consumption in the row. That would let me see things like a specific row has a lot of power-hungry modules and the row below/above it doesn't, so that I can move things around to balance that out. An add-on here would be to make the "consolidate space" button that rearranges modules take power-balancing into consideration, too!

3. Rack statistics, and maybe even Collection statistics: I am a bit of a nerd for how my rack (and my module Collection) is balanced: each module has tags for functions (e.g. Oscillator, LPG, etc)... what percentage of the modules in the rack are Oscillators? How many things that can be LFOs do I have? Do I have way too many VCAs (how could that even happen?)? A chart would be awesome, but even just a table showing counts would be fun. In the same way, what about manufacturer breakdown (This rack is 30% Instruo, 41% DIY, 3% Make Noise, etc), module widths, or other facts about the rack in aggregate? I am the type of person to build a spreadsheet to figure stuff like this out, but maybe other people aren't ... like that.

Thanks for asking for feedback/ideas!

EDITED Dec 24th 2021, 00:20

Getting lots of DMs here, nice tracks everyone and looking forward to more. A few folks have asked about cutoff, I'm thinking the 29th or 30th so if you're interested you still have a week!

User kooza, https://www.modulargrid.net/e/users/view/155418 is a crook!
This is a warning to alert other wigglers to this person.
I sold a module, E352 Cloud Terrarium two months ago (PP f /f) and then he couldn't wait for the module, to arrive with the parcel.
He applied to PayPal for buyer protection and the money was transferred back to him.
The parcel arrived today and he accepted it without transferring the money.

EDITED Dec 24th 2021, 20:52

Shall we play a game? JK...interesting sounds...not sure I would get along with all the icons that are used as labels, but on the other hand as with other modules its probably just a matter of getting used to what they mean over time.
-- jb61264

Yeah, icons may confuse a bit in first approach. The author wanted this device to be mysterious AF) But for me it actually took only about a week to learn the ways around the parameters – not much, I can say..

Oh wow that’s cool to hear that you can run the MPC Live on battery pack.

Well, how open are you to buying new modules? For many of the Mutable Instruments modules, smaller clones exist. The resale value of your MI modules should be above the new price of the clones.

Perhaps getting rid of the Veils and Quad VCA and going with a Befaco Hex Mix? That's two less VCAs but a space savings.

Do you need the Noise Engineering BIA? Think hard on that.

The Magneto is nice. But could you get away with a Jelly Wobbler?

If you had to pick one of your multi-effects to lose, which one would you remove?

Shall we play a game? JK...interesting sounds...not sure I would get along with all the icons that are used as labels, but on the other hand as with other modules its probably just a matter of getting used to what they mean over time.

Thanks for this! Yeah, that sounds like what I'm looking for. A lot of Digitakt videos I'm finding are using it in different ways than I'd plan to, but just reading your post gives me a lot of ideas.

Industrial and noisier EDM types are gonna dig this...
-- Lugia

I, personally, as a noise musician, found this module quite useful. Also had a nice results during "strange speech manipulations", sounds quite like glitches in modern GSM algorithms.. Maybe I'll shoot a vid about it too)

the 4i4 is about as small an interface as I would ever recommend anyone to buy

this is due to the 4 outputs - 2 for monitors 2 for sending audio out to process and re-record - any smaller and you can't do this unless you don't want to listen to what you are doing - which makes life very difficult imo

-- JimHowell1970

Out of curiosity, does anyone use headphones out of their AI?

I almost exclusively use monitors for mixing, but curious if studio headphones are ok for just playing around?
-- cj18

Not currently as I use an es8 as an audio interface (no headphone output) - but in the past I have - there is absolutely no need for monitors unless "mixing", even then arguably without acoustic room treatment, headphones may be better, depending on the headphones!

for "just playing around" I have used all sorts - laptop speakers, headphones, tiny rechargeable speakers and monitors

currently I use a tesseract tex-mix for mixing the output of which goes to an external mixer (an old yamaha mg10) and from there to either headphones or a pair of yamaha monitors (might be msp8s)

NB headphones won't help with the less than 4 channels problem - headphone outs are usually copies of channels 1 & 2, so you wouldn't be able to listen to the mix on headphones and use outputs 1 & 2 for external processing

3U/1U adapter holds Winterbloom Helium (3x buff mult + precision adder)

I’m using headphones with my Motu 4 audio interface. Works great and such a good audio interface. Recording direct from modular to my DAW is a piece of cake now.

the 4i4 is about as small an interface as I would ever recommend anyone to buy

this is due to the 4 outputs - 2 for monitors 2 for sending audio out to process and re-record - any smaller and you can't do this unless you don't want to listen to what you are doing - which makes life very difficult imo

-- JimHowell1970

Out of curiosity, does anyone use headphones out of their AI?

I almost exclusively use monitors for mixing, but curious if studio headphones are ok for just playing around?

DM sent just now with my modular track. I’m planning to release a modular dance album next year as my personal challenge for the new year. Might as well make music with my modular!

EDITED Dec 23rd 2021, 02:33

I also notice that the signal flow in this is sort of all over the place, and not in an arrangement that's more intuitive. Lemme tinker with this a bit...

OK...see how this feels:

What I did here was to restructure the layout. Nothing added or removed. Your "voicing" is up top, modulation and Rings on #2, drum and random on #3 on the left, FX on the right, and all of the control on the bottom. Also, the two 4 hp Doepfer mixers that are in row #3 are unused in this.

In case it's not apparent, the top row has your buffered mult (yes, you do have enough CV destinations!) then the STOs and Plaits. This is followed by your Quad VCA to give you level control over the oscillator signals. Then the Telharmonium has its own Veils to control the three outputs it has. If there was a quadrature source in here, you could hook it up so that the Veils could "strum" through its outputs. Fold is next (and since it has two inputs, try sending the VCA outputs to the Fold inputs!), Wasp VCF is next, and the Polaris after that, with one of the small Doepfer mixers functioning as a summing mixer for the various VCF outputs. From there, you could go on to an effects device in row #3, or you could use Rings as a final "filter-ish" device before FX. Lots of potential...it just needed to be a bit more visible.

EDITED Dec 23rd 2021, 02:03

It sounds utterly horrible on some of those settings...which means it's GREAT!!! Some of those overloads sound suspiciously like the sort of thing that I can get out of my PAR CR-4A, which is interesting as it contains the exact same op-amp circuitry as the ARP 2500 via some classic pre-ARP Nexus Research potted secret-sauce modules designed by Alan Pearlman in his pre-synth days.

Industrial and noisier EDM types are gonna dig this...

first 2 modules to be released in january (no date).
-- FatBerg

YUSSS!!!!