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complex what? vco, I suspect...
possibly, depends on the complex oscillator and what you want to do - a lot people are quite happy without either...
I don't have a complex oscillator, but I have a lot of wavefolders, which I often use for video synthesis - but sometimes for audio... I'd rather roll my own complex oscillator (from basic oscillators, mixers and wavefolder/shaper)...

Have you thought more about what "tactile" module you might like?
-- plragde

That's the next step, 30 HP to finish this madness... the good part is that i only have 1 month to the trip and won't be able to change too much.

Thinking better maybe it will fit nicely a reverb+delay compact module.

To be honest i need to read more, i don't really know right now so i won't take your time.

I really appriciatte your time, even so won't solve the problem, thinking and write about it, clear alot of my thought process.

If we have a complex ... can we do without a wavefolder?

Agree, could be the Hector. There is a patch you can try that is supposed to help.
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3694729&hilit=hector#p3694729

I don't have any issues with mine on an Befaco Excalibus with a bunch of other digital toys.
It is a slow beast to start... but a powerful one.

Speaking of HP, I'm wondering if the Erica Black Sequencer is going to stay. On paper it seems to give me more than the Metropolix, but it's (to me) not as intuitive and immediate to use, so I've been using it more for MIDI-to-CV than as a sequencer. If I cut that out, is there an obvious candidate for taking in at least 4 channels of MIDI? Hermod looks like it, but is there something else I don't know about? I've tried the Doepfer A-190-4 and was impressed with how cryptic it was to set up.
-- arthabaska

Have not used the Black Sequencer, but have an Erica Drum Sequencer (which has a single pitch/gate channel that operates in a similar way to the Black Sequencer only clunkier/way more tedious to edit) and a Metropolix. Metropolix is loads of fun to use and very immediate (while also having some very very deep probability & self modulation functionality), but it kind of takes you where it wants to go so can be difficult to create a deliberate/specific sequence if you have something in mind. If I have a bassline or melody in my head that I want to capture, I'll go to the Erica Drum Sequencer or Tete+Tetrapad first. Metropolix is a riff generating machine though, so will def be holding on to that for the foreseeable...

Five12 Vector Sequencer might be an option. Only 2 channels without an expensive expander, but it integrates with MIDI well and can sequence both CV & MIDI. Have seen quite a few people rave about it, and its the same HP as the BS. NerdSeq does pretty much everything as well and has a huge fanbase, although personally I can't get around how ugly I think it looks :)

In case you have not already seen it, there's a comprehensive comparison of Euro sequencers here: https://doudoroff.com/sequencers/

EDITED Mar 15th 2022, 16:15

For function generators like Stages, my personal favorite is the Intellijel Quadrax + its expander. 4 envelopes with end of rise and fall triggers plus a CV matrix behind the scenes. IMO this packs more functionality that any of the others, including the mighty Maths. I also use a Befaco Rampage, which is also great and so easy to use but Quadrax is the workhorse. Only problem is there are zero around for sale though I read on one of the German retail sites that new ones are expected in July... I want two!

EDITED Mar 15th 2022, 14:30

I have not used a Salmple but what I've read about it has been positive. You will eventually want a mixer but you have that in your Lizard system, eventually, so you shouldn't buy another one now. The Salmple has mixed pairs output and an all-mix output. You can set individual channel playback levels and put an AD envelope on. It will be a bit menu-divey so eventually you will want external mixing with knobs, but for a starting configuration I think it is all right. Pam's will provide enough modulation to start, also. Have you thought more about what "tactile" module you might like?

Its the hector, I have had 2, they do have power issues (also 2 beebos, first one only powered on 1 time and then never again, the replacement has been stable) . My original hector only turned on half the time, and my replacement is always the last thing to fully boot. It even takes the UI a moment to fully realize its not a beebo, meaning not all the ins and outs appear at the same time. My first one didn't do that. Hector is an odd and powerful beast, but far from stable like you would expect. I also have the zoia racked, its a slow boot as well, but always fully loads before hector. Hope this helps, I would get a replacement if I were you.

Thank you for your time, I spent some days trying to figure it out.

I'm thinking in pair a pamelas work out with a Squid Sample, thinking in sample audio on the fly, sending audio from Expert sleepers ES-9, direct to the Squid sample and later play with pamelas. To me, sounds good in paper and uses so little HP for a sample player and record.

Anyone has experience with this kind o sampler usage, it's necessary to think in a mixer or other utilities?? Which ones you think it's the worthiest? In my head, I will be mixing using the inputs of ES-9.

I will be left with 43 HP.

Thanks @t4mber. I didn't know about the Droid, certainly interesting (albeit a little intimidating!). As far as a "playing surface" is concerned, I'd love to find a solution to allow for more interaction with the system. I've not gotten Stages yet, but the 321 and Veils work well together so far for tuning my modulators (especially with the 321's mixer functions). They're just limited by size. Always looking for recommendations though.

First patch with the Tapographic delay. I was tempted since a long time ! So here is. The modular is used as an effects box with the Tapo and Desmodus versio. Er-301 is also used for some eq, mixing !

If its any help, It might not be, I've thrown loads of modules at my 2x uZeus Power modules with the standard power bricks and they perform admirably.
I was considering selling them as I upgrade my Konstantlab setup but I'll probably keep them for later skiff or small case builds cos they do take a lot of sh!t without complaining. :)

EDITED Mar 15th 2022, 07:54

The 2000 mA at +12V is only available if you're powering the uZeus with the 3000 mA boost brick which is capable of delivering that power. If you're using the 1000 mA wall adapter then that's not going to cut it. Also note that certain tube modules but also some digital modules I think sometimes draw extra power at start-up, it's possible that Poly Hector is one, though I'm not familiar with it so I can't say that with any certainty. But yeah if you don't have the boost brick then you should get one, they're usually about $35 (US).

In regard to @HGSynth's comments about tuning modulations, completely agree. Zadar is great because it has that capability built in. I've been using Droid for this purpose for large generative patches because it's a CV modular in the modular, a veritable modular module (yes, does require writing patches in scripts). In fact, it's designs are offset and scaling in every "patch cable". But it's not as hands on as having a stack of 321's but saves cost and hp 4sure.

Otherwise, looks like your "playing surface" is stages and veils, do you find those good for tuning things in?

Hello everyone,

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1862563.jpg

Nice meeting you all! I started eurorack about a year ago, and now I have this setup. I have one question - whenever I turn the power on, everything seems to boot up, but then when Poly Hector is about to start, it all gets turned off and restarts again.

I look at my current eurorack power consumption (I calculated it), and it's 1141 mA at +12V, 211 mA at -12V, 0 at mA 5V

but my Tiptop uZeus should be able to handle 2000mA at +12V, 500mA at -12V, 170mA at +5V

Could you kindly let me know if you have any suggestions?

p.s. I wondered if my tiptop uZeus was not delivering enough power, so I unplugged MI Ears, and everything works fine. (MI Ears draw +/-12v 5mA)

Thanks!
jae10

EDITED Mar 14th 2022, 23:53

Thank you CMB! I find myself strangely consumed by the Krell and spend a lot of idle time thinking about how to make the next one even more complex...

I kind of know what you mean about the black sequencer - it's a lot less immediate and demands a lot more effort than the metropolix

I've only played with a metropolis (not metropolix) once, a few years ago, and it was extremely intuitive to use on a basic level - ie I managed to get a sequence going with it in minutes, without the manual etc etc

I've had a black sequencer for a while and it takes a lot more effort to get into ie I still need to consult the manual - but I think that I'll persevere with mine - one thing you could try is creating a sequence on the metropolix and then recording it in the black sequencer - I do agree though it does seem a bit of a waste to just use as a midi->cv converter

you might want to look at cv.ocd, or the module version mutant brain if you decide you want a midi->cv module

Sorry for the delayed reply, I forgot I posted this :)

Thanks Jim & farkas for the very useful info. I've since thinned out my herd of oscillators, taking out the A-110-1, E350, and one of the A-110-4s. I've added the Nin expander to Zadar, and have discovered the joys of having an envelope ready to go on-demand. Tempted to add another if not for cost. Will likely add another Veils as well, and maybe a second Plaits if I see a good price locally. I've also moved the DFAM into the rack, and it's integrating well enough with the rest of the system, at least until I need more HP :D

Speaking of HP, I'm wondering if the Erica Black Sequencer is going to stay. On paper it seems to give me more than the Metropolix, but it's (to me) not as intuitive and immediate to use, so I've been using it more for MIDI-to-CV than as a sequencer. If I cut that out, is there an obvious candidate for taking in at least 4 channels of MIDI? Hermod looks like it, but is there something else I don't know about? I've tried the Doepfer A-190-4 and was impressed with how cryptic it was to set up.

Hey thanks! What was your favourite moment?
-- brunomolteni

I'd go for the filter tweaks and the lovely twinkly finish.

Let me know if you want patch description !
Cheers

Nice work :) Which version of your rack was this with?
-- wishbonebrewery

Hey thanks! What was your favourite moment?

The rack from the video is pretty much this, altough it may have 1 or 2 different modules in there...

Nice work :) Which version of your rack was this with?

Firstly, if you're open to integrating this with a computer, get an ES9 and connect your physical modules with VCVRack. It will open up soooo many ways to learn. I do all my mixing and end of chain effects in VCV, including the amazing and free Supermassive reverb plugin from Vahalla. If you're dead set on a physical only rack, you could even sell on the ES9 when your case is near-full. You'll find a buyer in about 60 seconds after listing it on Reverb.com

Cool idea. I'm definitely not opposed to some computer integration. Still learning my way around VCV, it would be nice to augment the rack, as long as it can stay predominantly physical. I'll have to look into the ES9.

Secondly, in your case, you need to increase the randomness (actually the Buchla random you had before would be ideal). I would definitely add dedicated Sample & Holds and put them next to your noise module. Would also add some free running chaotic random CV like a Sloths. Also consider at least one buffered mult.

Sloths is new to me. Seems like a bit of an unpredictable beast. Absolutely agree on needing more randomness though, so I'm happy for the suggestion. I often use the O_c for its shift register/turing machine apps, though I've been on the search for a dedicated piece to replace that and free up the module for other things.

The other thing I think you need are more ways to attenuate, invert, offset. One key thing about generative is being able to 'tune' your CV in order to precisely tweak that generative randomness into something listenable. One thing you could do is swap some your VCA choices with ones that can VCA but also do inversion and offset. You have a bit of that, but IMHO you need more.

Finally I would sprinkle those utilities all around your case.

Thanks so much for the advice!

No kidding that it wants the actual case it came in for this update!

Before I found this post, I'd tried and failed to update it in my main case. So with your tip (thank you!) I tried it with a proper Moog 60hp case. I dug around in my gear and found one, then mounted my subharmonicon in it. The update still failed, (stuck on the third sysex file, lights just do the "updating" sequence forever. After rebooting, it's still stuck on step 1.

So... I flipped the 60hp case over to double check, and sure enough it was the case my DFAM case in, not the one the subharmonicon came in. So I dug around AGAIN and found the actual subharmonicon 60hp case, re-mounted it and then the update succeeded.

Again, thank you for figuring this out!!!

I've just started using keyboard navigation on Modular Grid and I think it would be nice if there was an option when you're in Move mode to swap the module with its neighbor. It's nice to be able to move a module to either end of a row with < and >, but if you just want to move it on the other side of a couple of other modules, you have to move the module one HP at a time. Maybe if you could use Shift + left or right arrow key it would just switch the positions with the nearest neighbor.

Thanks!

I've never used either of the Verbos oscillators (though I would be very interested in trying out the Harmonic Oscillator someday), but I do think the Verbos Complex Oscillator is very similar to the Make Noise DPO, as far as layout and features. I think you would be able to achieve a greater diversity of sound by keeping the HO paired with one CO, rather than having two COs. I don't think you would be gaining much more capability by adding a second CO, but that comes back to how you plan on using them in your system. If it were me, I would keep the HO and CO that you already have. However, if you are looking to swap out one of your oscillators, I would recommend the Frap Tools Brenso over the Verbos CO, as it is a very feature-rich CO. It is also slightly less expensive and smaller than the Verbos one. I replaced my DPO with a Brenso, and I am happy with it, but be aware that it has EXTREMELY high power requirement specs. It's given some of my power supplies problems in the past.

Everything I do in the rack is pretty much generative, so my feedback comes from that side of things...

Firstly, if you're open to integrating this with a computer, get an ES9 and connect your physical modules with VCVRack. It will open up soooo many ways to learn. I do all my mixing and end of chain effects in VCV, including the amazing and free Supermassive reverb plugin from Vahalla. If you're dead set on a physical only rack, you could even sell on the ES9 when your case is near-full. You'll find a buyer in about 60 seconds after listing it on Reverb.com

Secondly, in your case, you need to increase the randomness (actually the Buchla random you had before would be ideal). I would definitely add dedicated Sample & Holds and put them next to your noise module. Would also add some free running chaotic random CV like a Sloths. Also consider at least one buffered mult.

The other thing I think you need are more ways to attenuate, invert, offset. One key thing about generative is being able to 'tune' your CV in order to precisely tweak that generative randomness into something listenable. One thing you could do is swap some your VCA choices with ones that can VCA but also do inversion and offset. You have a bit of that, but IMHO you need more.

Finally I would sprinkle those utilities all around your case.

EDITED Mar 12th 2022, 16:06

In different browsers, on different machines, I'm constantly unable to type or use the delete button when trying to reply to posts. Sometimes refreshing helps but it's frustrating.

Hi,

Im currently having a CO and VHO as main oscillators in my case (verbos system almost) but im thinking of maybe sell my Harmonic Oscillator and replace it with something else does that makes sense at all to you? Or are they too much the same and much overlapping eachother?

Im realized i dont use VHO as much and would maybe to consider to add one more complex osc.

Would appriciate your thoughts before pulling the trigger!

EDITED Mar 15th 2022, 15:32

This is one excellent module! Strongly recommended as it packs a lot of utility into 48hp, plus adds additional 4hp of LFO Outputs as well. Each section works by itself, so you have quad panning from the two joysticks, dual VCA's, two filters, dual VCO's, 1v/Oct tracking and a very complex noise source.

Feels intuitive in that you tune and play it like a radio. Makes an excellent companion to external sound sources: drums, other synths, envelopes, matrix mixers, whatever. I highly recommend picking one up and I don't think there is anything overtly bad about it... the thing is just very experimental and unique.

Before you get a Mimetic Digitalis try setting your Pam's to 4x, stepped random wave, and loop length to CV1. You can send 0V and it will just generate random steps, but then increase voltage to lock it in a loop. Then back to 0V for Turing Machine style random stepped voltage.
-- obscuremachines

What a cool trick, thanks!

I’m pretty sure the depth is the same throughout. I have a 2hp play I wish I could test the size for you.

"Module Depth: 45.5mm (37.4mm at each 1HP edge)". This is what their website mentions, I'll write an email to double check.

If not I’d just run off an LFO off your other modules, and I would expand to the 6hp FX Aid as it has more CV and also you CV its sample rate.

-- obscuremachines

Love this idea! Never occurred to me to use an lfo, definitely switching to the 6hp fx then. Thank you so much for your help and effort!

We will ship Monday to stores and to people who pre-ordered :)

Hi @tubbutec,

Any updates on the release date?

Do you already know the frist shops which will have it?

Thanks

I just sold a Palette 62, and I loved it. Great case. And the limitation drove me to squeeze every drop out of modules.

I’m pretty sure the depth is the same throughout. I have a 2hp play I wish I could test the size for you.

Never had a Zadar, but it does indeed seem like a great module.

The only thing I’m curious about is the clock. Are you planning on modulating it? If not I’d just run off an LFO off your other modules, and I would expand to the 6hp FX Aid as it has more CV and also you CV its sample rate. I run both the 4hp and 6hp versions and the 4hp gets used as set and forget verb cause the knobs are pretty tight. 6hp much more tweakable. Can’t go wrong with either though super sick modules. For either you will have to use a power cable without the clip on the top to make it fit which you can just pull off if needed.

Hope that helps!

Check the height of the Palette cause the 2hp modules are tall.

If you are going to be tweaking your filter I'd get something like C4RBON with actual pots and not trimmers. Also, more versatile.

Micro Ornament and Crime would be great in a small setup like this, worth a look.

-- obscuremachines

Good call! The palette is more shallow at either end so I have to move the fx and clock further in.

The C4RBN sounds amazing! Definitely gonna add that. Got the space for it as well with Twin Waves replacing MCO + the quantizer as CurioKid recommended.

The uO_C also looks super powerful, although there's something about the Zadar design I really like..

I think this is where I'm at for now:

Get a larger case. You also want more utility modules.
-- sacguy71

Would you recommend substituting the Maths for more specified utility? I thought with having stages covering s+h, and the two 1U units at the top, Maths would be a great wildcard for all the other utility I'd need.

I'm quite fond of the palette, unless it's impossible, I think I want to try come up with a nice system within the size restriction.

EDITED Mar 12th 2022, 09:50

Moog released a firmware update (1.1.0) for Subharmonicon. Great improvements!
Just wanted to let you know I ran into an issue with the SysEx process (with solution, if someone has the same problem):
I have my Subharmonicon built into a larger Eurorack case and the SysEx transfer didn’t work at all (Mac mini M1, SysEx Librarian 1.5, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4)
...Until I put the Subharmonicon into the case it came in – then the transfer worked flawlessly!
So if someone runs into that same problem, that might help.
You can put it back into your Eurorack case after the process is finished, if you don't like cluttered desktops ;-)

EDITED Mar 12th 2022, 21:52

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone could help suggest potential modules for a Keith Fullerton Whitman-style modular synthesizer.

I know like most people he's always tweaking his setup but I would like to explore some potential options inspired by him.

He mentioned in this old lecture he has a clock powered by an Atari 2600 chip and it sounds amazing.

And here's a video of one of his live performances:

Before you get a Mimetic Digitalis try setting your Pam's to 4x, stepped random wave, and loop length to CV1. You can send 0V and it will just generate random steps, but then increase voltage to lock it in a loop. Then back to 0V for Turing Machine style random stepped voltage. You also have additional control with Pam's attenuator, offset, etc. But that's only if you want the shred functionality of Mimetic which is all I used it for until I figured out that thing with Pam's. If you want to dial in sequences, well that's a different story.

Check the height of the Palette cause the 2hp modules are tall.

If you are going to be tweaking your filter I'd get something like C4RBON with actual pots and not trimmers. Also, more versatile.

Micro Ornament and Crime would be great in a small setup like this, worth a look.

Get a larger case. You also want more utility modules.

Wow the Twin Waves looks incredible! Definitely seems like i'll have much more fun with that than with the MCO + quantizer, thanks for the suggestion! Switching those out.

For Zadar, I thought it was a good fit because I'd be missing an envelope generator, lfo, or both if I use all of Stages for sequencing and s+h. If I need a noise source I could use a noise shape lfo as well. Although I guess Zadar, Maths and Stages all overlap a bit too much.

The ProK BD bass drum module. One of four drum mods based on the same circuit board and panel, just different IC programming, so seeing one shows you how all will go together.
C.K. builds a ProK BD module

I think you're on the right track. Stages seems like a large bite to chew for your first rack, but if you really want cv control over each step then it might be your best option in a small case.

Zadar seems overkill. I would imagine you will always have at least one or two unused outputs. Also, if you plan on using it at audio rates to modulate mco, then why not go with something designed to run at audio rates? Twin waves seems like a better option. The lfo modes are great and vco modes have a built in quantizer. Now that I think about it, just ditch MCO all together for twin waves, and then you could lose the pico quant as well. The quantizer on twin waves doesn't respond to trigs, rather it just continuously confines your sequence to a scale, so if you went that route maybe you would want to add a 2hp sample+hold to be able to achieve sustain. Or maybe you could just use stages in such a way where the s+h isn't necessary.

Hope this helps.

The main idea stemmed from wanting a melodic sequencer where I can choose certain steps and modulate them over time. Say, a 3 note sequence where I use a cv input on the lowest note to make a changing bass voice, whilst the two upper voices stay constant. That's where I thought Stages would be great, I can choose the sequence length, and for each stage I have the option for cv input.

The Steppy I thought was a good fit to trigger both the Stages and Zadar, even being able to keep some sort of arrangement going with the 64 sequence length.

I feel with the Zadar being able to oscillate at audible rates (even though I read the pitch tracking isn't great) I could still feed it into the MCO for some interesting tones.

EDITED Mar 12th 2022, 09:50

A Mimetic Digitalis sequencer would work well in this set-up. They are great for stepped CV modulation. It would work nicely with your Pam's.
-- Ronin1973

Thanks for the suggestion. I typically use the MB2s for sequencing, but I'd love to add more onboard ability to lesson my reliance on the tabletop units, particularly if they are good for playing live. With the Pam's and the A138m, that might be a great combo for complex weirdness.

I really like batumi and poti, but I'd be tempted to also consider zadar and nin - which can provide some very long complex modulation, which can easily be attenuated to mix with other modulation sources in the matrix mixer... I'd probably go with this and start saving for the next case - to put the other modules in - another very interesting module I'd probably look at is the Xaoc Samara ii - which has an interesting clamp function...

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your feedback. I've been torn between the Batumi and Zadar for quite a while, but since they keep being out of stock, I've been stuck in Xaoc limbo for both. We'll see which is in stock first, but definitely think I'm going to end up with both eventually, once a new case arrives. I hadn't looked at the Samara ii yet, that one seems quite useful, might be a good fit.

a good habit when you get a case is to charge rack space (ie save the cost of the hp for the module in a piggy bank or savings account) - by the time the case is full there'll be enough cash for the next case...
-- JimHowell1970

That's a great idea, thanks!

A Mimetic Digitalis sequencer would work well in this set-up. They are great for stepped CV modulation. It would work nicely with your Pam's.

13hp is an awkward number of hp to be left with...

all the modules you mention would be good - it's mostly a case of fitting them in...

batumi and poti would fill your 13hp nicely... as would toolbox and rnd step (leaving 3hp over)

if you want the functionality of toolbox then this is one to go for as the last batch of them should be in stores now...

but... Pams should be able to cover the random into sample and hold functionality, as should (iirc) O&C with hemispheres...

I really like batumi and poti, but I'd be tempted to also consider zadar and nin - which can provide some very long complex modulation, which can easily be attenuated to mix with other modulation sources in the matrix mixer... I'd probably go with this and start saving for the next case - to put the other modules in - another very interesting module I'd probably look at is the Xaoc Samara ii - which has an interesting clamp function...

a good habit when you get a case is to charge rack space (ie save the cost of the hp for the module in a piggy bank or savings account) - by the time the case is full there'll be enough cash for the next case...

Duplicate, already exists here https://www.modulargrid.net/e/vpme-de-qd-quad-drum-voice