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Yep, that was me @GarfieldModular and I'm glad to see it having influence already 🤣, this rules pretty frickin hard @the-erc, the textures, dynamics, and rhythms are great, thank you for sharing, and for advancing the 17 minute-long cause lol

first I would get a bigger case (6u/104hp is a good sized starter case) so you can actually build a modular synth in it rather than a collection of a few modules that won't play nicely together

you need to add modulation, envelope generators, utility modules

either a bigger case or cut back to 1 or 2 voices at most - otherwise not enough space for the support modules you need

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks for the great feedback! I’m such a n00b and could use some more examples of what you mean by utility modules. I have 8 LFOs, and 6 VCAs — what other basic utilities do I need other than an envelope generator? Pardon my ignorance

-- trazo5

you could do with some more mixing capabilities for starters - I see you have a sequential switch and some logic (too much logic not enough mixing) - first off all throw both the logic modules out and get a kinks - you get a rectifier and a sample and hold thrown in - but only 1 logic channel - which is probably more than enough in this size case

I usually recommend links, kinks and shades as a utility starter set, after that a sequential switch and a matrix mixer

to me the turing machine and expansion modules take up way too much space in this size case - but then so do the instruo modules - I'd choose one or the other but not both - or a much bigger case

marbles would be my choice for replacing the turing machine and the quantizer - almost all the functionality (plus some more) in just over 1/3rd the space

a lot of the interesting stuff in modular comes from sequencing the sequencer, or modulating the modulation - which is where utilities usually come in

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!

I'm also not convinced by ochd as a primary lfo - not a great deal of control and only a saw iirc - great as a secondary lfo though

I'd second the recommendation of Maths - check out the illustrated manual online - it's a great learning tool - if you want to actually learn about modular - which some do and some don't

EDITED Nov 18th 2020, 18:42

I would get a sequential switch or matrix mixer which are great for ambient.
-- sacguy71

Would love to hear/see some creative uses for sequential switches in a max-240hp build. I have one myself that I've generally been using as a modulation sequencer or creating random melodic lines from multiple oscillators. Curious about other creative techniques for them.

Playing Make Noise Telharmonic through Optomix, QPAS, Rossum Panharmonium, Clouds, and Mimeophon. Lots of knob turning over a simple set of sequences from Rene that feed Telharmonic. I had some gain staging issues running through this chain and a tough time taming the high end noise generated by Clouds feeding on Panharmonium. I'll revisit the patch today to sort that out. Telharmonic can be tough to tame but I really like where this one is going.

Interesting kinks. Is a contrary links that add effects and noise instead of clearing and mixing. Nice thx

If I was looking to fill the 10hp left, I would probably add a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL and a Mutable Instruments Kinks.

+1 for everything above. Start with a bigger case like a Mantis, and get a copy of VCVRack.

For modules, you might also want to look at Grayscale's 18hp Permutation module. It does a lot of the stuff that the Turing Machine and expanders do and uses a lot less hp. Other good ones to look at for this kind of music are Ornament+Crime, Disting, Ultra Random Analog, Control Forge, Cloud Terrarium, Triple Sloths, and 4ms SWN and SMR.

Keep in mind that all this good advice you're getting is pretty expensive when you start buying everything. Starting with four modules is a good idea. I'd say get yourself a complex oscillator like DPO, Troika, or Furthrrrr Generator, a function generator like Maths, Grand Terminal, Zadar, or Scion, an irregular modulation source like Ultra Random Analog, Permutation, or Ornament+Crime, and an output module, like XOH or Intellijel's Outs. Will that give you everything you need to make generative music? Not really, but it will get you started. You'll be able to make sound, modulate it, modulate the modulation, and listen to it. Then get to know all four modules, figure out what they're not doing for you, and then go look for new modules.

EDITED Nov 18th 2020, 15:38

I agree with tip of mixing/patching with headphones. I have clashed several times on this aspect.

well... This will be a possible finalization of first rack that I could complete in the next months...

About effects, is there space (10 hp) for something? My first idea was Mimeophon and others but the space now is not enought.

About power consumption I will use the power supply and bus board of Doepfer A100 that have 1200 mA so I think will be enought.

EDITED Nov 18th 2020, 10:48

Ah i see you have a mult but it is way to big for a small case. I would ditch the ripples get a freak instead. If it is for studio use you don't really need the mixer adsr i would also recommend from 2hp. Generally unless you plan to build a monster case every hp is essential. Plaits and Manis have already a vca in them so i would ditch veils and get also a smaller vca for example 2hp for the spectrum module. Or get altogether a vca with build in envelope like the pico mod.

This is my rack so far i make industrial techno. I use it along a with a Tr 8 run through a distortion pedal. With the Mysteron i am not so happy since the soundpalet is not so big. Next modules will be plaits and clouds then Loquelic Iteritas Percido , cursus versio, mimetic digitalis and 2hp hat. I am also planning to sell the milky way and get another fx aid xl. Sequencing i am with beatstep pro and korg sq-1

EDITED Nov 18th 2020, 07:19

I would suggest to get a smaller plaits module and clouds module so you have more space for future modules. Plus 2 modules that i highly recommend is is the vult freak and the fx aid xl plus i recommend 1 or 2 mults to split cv signals

EDITED Nov 18th 2020, 06:54

Also download a free copy of VCVRack that is such a valuable tool for planning and trying out modules. I have 2 full 6U cases but still use the software for testing and trying things out. Bigger case is great. You can fill in empty space with blank panels.

Fun drone today

Hi The-Erc,

Now this is what I call a drone ;-) Yeah!

You know what? This is certainly not the shortest track here on this forum but it didn't feel at all that it was too long, no the opposite, somehow this 15 or 17 minutes long drone track thing, it makes sense, after about 10 minutes or so the whole mind, body, soul and whatever we got in us, it's all focussed just on your drone! And that's a fantastic experience :-)

That ticking sound that kicks in around 14:00+, I love that, a nice surprise: a kind of saying goodbye and a thank you to the listener, well done!

How lovely this is and thank you very much for sharing it! Kind regards, Garfield.

P.S.: Next time perhaps a real 17 minutes or longer drone? ;-)

P.S.2: Who was that with this 17 minutes, was that you Troux? Well, spot on! :-)

Hi Lugia,

Ha, ha, well... after 10 years or so, perhaps you can then smile about it, for now... take a very deep breath...

And let's wait for the 2600 from Behringer to come out and have it tested at our local dealers. My local dealer updated the availability of the B2600 from March 2021 to early January 2021, so it's a not too long wait any more, I hope...

Kind regards, Garfield.

first I would get a bigger case (6u/104hp is a good sized starter case) so you can actually build a modular synth in it rather than a collection of a few modules that won't play nicely together

you need to add modulation, envelope generators, utility modules

either a bigger case or cut back to 1 or 2 voices at most - otherwise not enough space for the support modules you need

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks for the great feedback! I’m such a n00b and could use some more examples of what you mean by utility modules. I have 8 LFOs, and 6 VCAs — what other basic utilities do I need other than an envelope generator? Pardon my ignorance

Someone on this forum said a drone track has to last 17 minutes. I tried, I really tried.

Hope no one is offended by the lack of modular on this: the only sound source is the DFAM playing into a big mess of cheap-ass... er I mean... vintage digital delays feeding back into each other, most prominent of which is the Boss RSD-10.

I'm so underwhelmed.

I just got an email from Perfect Circuit, saying that one of the RAR KARP 2600 FS UBERKOOL "limited" synths (plus stamped-out-of-dried-jello "road" "case") CAN BE MINE!

Nice. Uhhh...OK, so I needed to allocate space and budget for this about...ah...10 months ago. As in, when it actually came out, it should've been available THEN if Korg wanted my money. Not now. Not after I've completed the purchases for the studio with the sole exception of an ARP 2600...from Behringer. For a lot less. With no worries about availability. Or having to fight for one vs the people who Korg "decided" that should get one. Or a roadcase that makes it "special" while being utterly useless otherwise.

I reiterate: someone (or several someones) over in Hamamatsu needs to be chucked into a padded room and shot full of thorazine. Screw those bastards. I don't like giving Uli my money, but if they're going to step up where Korg massively stumbled, well...

Two modules come to mind...one would be a new offering from G-Storm: their Gyrinx VCF, which is a clone of the Synton Syrinx filter, well known for all sorts of wild modulation capabilities with a filter set that focuses on vocal formants. And the wavefolder...Tiptop's Fold offers a nice wavefolder, dual inputs, and a suboctave generator for massive square-wave bass with its own separate output. Dirt-cheap, too!

TBH, I don't recommend trying to patch with headphones...for the same reason that I don't recommend mixing with headphones. In both cases, the frequency response and the driver proximity are going to cause various alterations to your sound that, once the sound has been routed to a pair of speakers, will become glaringly apparent. The tendency will be to lower the bass and high end when listening to phones...leading to sounds that won't cut and won't pound. Never do this. The ONLY rationale for using headphones with any synthesizer would simply be for practice; never do that when you're playing live thru a PA (unless you need them for a cue send) or in the studio.

As for the build itself...sacguy's on the right track here. I would suggest the addition of an Intellijel Quadrax, also...this gives you four cycle-able two-stage EGs, which means you can loop them to make additional LFOs for modulation purposes. Make sure and add the Qx expander for that, which then allows you access to the start and end pulses for more complex composite curves...and you can still break out an ASR three-stage from this for the VCF and/or the output VCA. Oh, and you can have CV over rise/fall parameters here, too, since the Quadrax has a pile of routing possibilities (it's got a mod matrix hiding in it!). Makes a good match with the Veils! Plus, since the TAI-4 has no envelope followers (boo hiss!), adding one to track your drum machine's volume contour might be very worthwhile (auto-wah? ducking? all need this). Plankton makes a nice 2 hp one (you won't need to tinker with it much once it's set) for a bit under $100.

Oh, and sacguy? Good call on mating the Pam's with the Plog! All sorts of wacky timing possibilities with that pairing...

+1 on Jim's suggestion here. Without the additional utility and supporting modules, this is a nice accumulation of modules...and that's about it. Start with something pre-powered like a Mantis instead of these way-too-small skiffs.

Or maybe that:
Instrument interface (befaco) through a little bandpass filter, through disting for pitch and cv tracking)...
-- deniSound

Yep, I've been looking at the Befaco: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/befaco-i4-instrument-interface.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaX8aH6USyFV91YKPED9YK0Jgcw6KY-kQRF2NM3-ochS9iHaDOKULAUaAijKEALw_wcB

@Lugia,

I actually just reached out to the company, and they confirmed that the finished module will have phantom power. As for the impedence and input levels, I would imagine that's what the Mode 1-2-3 switch will be, no?

Unfortunately, they also said 2021 for release.

Hi - Here is my first Euro build as of today:

And here is one of the options I'm considering as to how to finish the case:

[Edit: For some reason or another, it is not displaying the correct rack build in this post. Check the link?]

My intent ultimately is to focus more on SWN, and wavetable synthesis in general, since I already have almost every other form of synthesis covered outside of modular. I do not intend to create backbeats or any kick/snare style drums with modular either. At most, some more melodic percussive elements that would be closer in timbre to wood block or toms. Again, at most. My drums are also handled outside modular.

Would love for anyone to take a look and remind me that I don't need so many trigger/gate generators if I won't be doing drums and other choice bits of hard truth.

Would also love to discuss great sound mangling/wave-shaping/rectifying/etc modules that are DIY capable or are just so unique and weird that they must be mentioned.

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 21:57

yes. perhaps maths remains the best choice. Fallistri is a little bit short in rack but i dont know if is more complicated.

Kinks + Links is superb and useful. Also Pamela New Workout. I have Cursus Iteritas. Here is a demo if you would like to see what it can do when heavily modulated!

I have expanded once again to 104hp 7u. Have mapped out the DIY route and found it to be the most affordable with accommodations for more than adequate power.

I also need to second this as the amount of info around maths is generally super good, and it’s very reasonably priced. Especially considering the ratio of hpprice (I still got the rampage tho🤞)

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 17:22

whatever modulation source/envelope generator you get - buy kinks and a matrix mixer - these will massively increase the effectiveness of your modulation

the big advantage that Maths has over other DUSG style modules is that someone took the trouble to create the Maths Illustrated Manual (google) - it has 32 patch suggestions in it - working your way through it with is a good grounding in modular sytnhesis

I think it's funny that people complain about Maths being indecipherable and then go and buy fallistri or rampage, both of which to me look 10 times more complicated and way less ergonomic than maths

veils will work fine for amplifying your external drum machine to modular levels!

first I would get a bigger case (6u/104hp is a good sized starter case) so you can actually build a modular synth in it rather than a collection of a few modules that won't play nicely together

you need to add modulation, envelope generators, utility modules

either a bigger case or cut back to 1 or 2 voices at most - otherwise not enough space for the support modules you need

Thanks a lot @farkas.
I have a hard time imagining the VoltageBlock, because I plan max. a 6U case. I also considered Pam's, but I don't need rhythms or master clock, my Beatstep Pro and the Digitakt can do that.
So I thought about a Quadenvelope to bring in also slow modulation.

For the record, I would highly recommend Pamela's New Workout too.

I have the Loquelic Iteritas Percido and Basimilus Iteritas, and I would recommend the Voltage Block. The VB doesn't seem to get much love around here, but the NE oscillators seem almost tailor-made for the complex rhythmic modulation that VB offers. If you have seen Baseck's VB/NE demos, you'll know how that combo can shine.
Have fun and good luck!

hello everybody,
at the moment I am planning to buy a new oscillator. At the moment Manis or Ataraxic, possibly Cursus, are on the shortlist.
Therefore it is time to think about more modulation, and of course a bigger case. I currently use for modulation an A-118-2, a ClepDiaz, a Function, and from time to time the pitch sequencer and various other outputs of the DFAM or the sequencers of the BeatstepPro.

I am thinking about a Quad Envelope. So of course the overly suspicious ones come to mind: Stages, Quadrax, Zadar, Quadigy, PonsAsinorum - you know them.

What are your experiences with NE-VCOs - is it worth a Quad-Envelope? or should i get more LFOs a la Batumi, Pams, or better something like Mimetic or VoltageBlock?

Your opinions would interest me.

that's my current 84HP rack + DFAM:

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 16:14

It's really GOOD to see someone taking their time and building SLOWLY!!

Really good!!! It's the best way and how it should be done!! In all but the most exceptional of circumstances I don't like it when someone just buys a bunch of euro all in one go or a very short space of time. Grumble... grumble... :D

Also the

This might need additional confirmation, but you can't just hookup some external audiorate drum signal to a mixer section? because the levels inisde the module would be much higher than the outside signal. and you

I now understand you vision with the drum sync, but yeah you still need clock divisions and double check +12db is enough to bump the volca signal. But thats also part of the fun, right? :D

Hi Alex, for the output I have no problems because I enter in a sound card so I already mix the modular with other synths, drum machines and listen everything with headphones (mute what I don't need and record on pro tools).
Regarding the drum machine of the first post, I was referring more to its synchronization and start/stop with the modular. I've seen Divkid do it by combining it with a volca beats. It seems an amplified input is enough (and for this I asked for confirmation of the vermona because I can attenuate the output but also +6/+12 dB amplify the input) and the sync cable of the volca (which is a minijack) just send it to a clock divider (or multiplier) to sync rack to volca and that would be what I would like to do.
I really think I need a mixing module to get the drum machine or the whatever external synth inside the rack and then in the headphones on the sound card.
Of course I can always switch everything in the sound card and just the sync cable between the rack and the drum machine but I wanted to try this internal step, also because in this way I could "effect" the drum machine to my liking with filters or future modules.
Even the Rampage seems particularly complete but I agree with your considerations.

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 14:02

What is still missing for me is something like a headphone out to listen to the direct out of the rack. Because what is the use to mix your stereo drum singnal within the Rack if you're doing additional mixing listening outside of the box anyway. Also I'm not really sure if you really need the symmetric input of your drummachine singal you mentioned earlier? And wouldn't it will be line signal anyway? wWth lots of cheap adapters you do not get the performance you would expect from symmertric xlr cable.

I'm also just starting out but even looking at the updated rig I feel like there are a lot of complex boxes with just little facilitation? So maybe you could mix a line singal of your rack and then mix outside of the box with the drums. But thats just my 2 cents.

FYI, there are maths alternatives like combining multiple "Make Noise Functions" or "Befaco Rampage", but you would not get as much functions with the rampage as it is missing the two additional attenuverted channels. So you will always end up loosing more rack space with the Rampage in a system.

cheers
alex

Hi all, I’ve designed my first rack for creating generative & ambient soundscapes. I’m pretty happy with it but now the question is what modules to purchase first. Looking at the below rack - if you had to start with only 3 modules, which would it be? Also open to feedback on the chosen modules /things I’m missing!

Hey Garfield,

Thanks for your heartwarming feedback, you really made my day :)

Thank you all really for the advice.
As I said I certainly intend to complete this rack and I will treasure your advice.
I'm building the two-row case I was talking about and also remember that I'm patching with werkstatt.
On the subject of linear/exponential vca combined with linear/exponential eg I had watched a very interesting video of Learning Modular about it some time ago, and the initial idea was just to start with the 2hp linear vca + the exponential eg of the stages that I really like a lot and does a lot of things (eg, sequencer, now I'm using it as an lfo controlling everything from the keyboard), but actually only he can't do all this TOGETHER.
I know the Math and I know that it does many things too, but since it is a very used module (there must be a reason!) I thought I could replace it with something else and instead it doesn't seem so.
I certainly spent much money for verbos and belgrad but I was very impressed by them and the idea of taking something that I knew I would change in the future bothered me.
I am also testing with vcv rack. The basic set is very basic, as I had it in mind. A vco, a vcf, a mixer and an adsr (not even a vca). Sure as you say, it remains playable but nothing more, so I intend to gradually expand the starting point in pc and real modular.
Lugia before this my thread, I had read several your posts here on MG and I knew about your decades of experience. Certainly I did not want to be disrespectful and indeed know that I have a lot of respect for you.
Thanks also to Sacguy, I will study the modules you suggested.
Thanks again for your patience.

Dear all,

I'm trying to sell this fantastic 61hp case:

Nono Modular Rover + Intellijel TPS30 Mini
gift: Koma Kabelhänger Module

don't know if this is the correct place since we haven't
a dedicated skiff/cases section on the marketplace,
but for any information, photos, price just send me
a private message,

cheers

Here is an improved build with my recommendations

Maths- lots of modulation, EG, function generator- so useful
Veils- VCAs are needed and great
0chd- 8 LFO for modulating the Verbos and Belgrad
Mixup- great small mixer
Pamela New Workout- superb clock and sequencer with tricks and tools

Definitely get a copy of the free software VCVRack and use it to try various combination of builds. There are free tutorials on modular setups with it online. Perhaps start with a semi-modular like Moog Mother 32? That at least would get you started with a patch synth and understand the basics. Also, get a larger case than you think will be needed. Most of modular is support type modules. In my setup, I only have 1-2 voices plus a filter and LFO but lots of support tools like VCAs, envelope generator, attenuator, mixers, logic modules and so forth. These are what make modular way different than say a traditional hardware synth or you could get a Moog Matriarch that has 90 patch points and would teach you how the various parts fit together. If you really want a full modular system, another choice are prebuilt systems like Make Noise Shared System, Doepfer A100 Basic System, or Erica Synths Black System or ALM Busy Circuits Super Coupe modular system that have all the basic modules together for you.

I started first with a Make Noise 0-coast and Korg SQ-1 sequencer then VCV Rack then a Doepfer A100 Basic System and added to it over time.

Kermit is crazy good! Some menus but nothing difficult and lots of knobs to play with so quite hands on.

Hi Sacguy71,

Yeah... sigh... all cool stuff you mention there :-)

Okay, I wrote down the Kermit on my test-list for/at my local dealer as well. I saw to my surprise that they got this one, so once i have time, I have to test the Kermit so I know where you are talking about ;-)

Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Gabor,

Oh man, what a treat this is. If I claim I would love this, that would be a serious understatement! This is just brilliant, the music, your video, the... the... ah...

I am just speechless, this is great stuff! Beautiful video material too!

Thanks a lot for sharing this, I hope you come up with more brilliant work like this! Thank you very much for this enjoyment and kind regards, Garfield.

P.S.: I have to buy a new monitor, first it went blueish then kind of sepia and then it turned completely red, must be some issues with my RGB part of my monitor. I might need to go offline for a few days till I got a new monitor...

P.S.2: ;-)

Hi Garfield.

Yeah the octasource would be cool along with 0chd for 16 LFO madness to add tons of modulation once I get a larger new case. Also like to see what Erica Synths Black Sequencer is like when it comes out as well as the Black Wave table VCO and Erica Synths DSP v2 and switch. They also make a cool matrix mixer. I have enjoyed the Erica Synths Black Polivoks filter quite a bit as it can self oscillate nicely when pushed. You would love Kermit- super crazy quad modulator that can be quad LFO, S&H, random voltage generator, envelope generator, dirty oscillator or combine these together in many patterns.

Hi Sacguy71,

So perhaps it's slowly time for you to think about the Erica Synths - Black Octasource? Crazy f*** nuts LFO but wow, what a module, I love that crazy bastard of a module ;-) You can really do weird things with it, so if that's your thing you might want to consider the Black Octasource.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Zuggamasta,

Yes! That looks nice and tidy! Good luck with the DIY modules :-)

Enjoy modular and kind regards, Garfield.