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veils, qpas and maths would be my next modules for this and in that order

but kinks has been dicontinued - so if you can get one now get it

I have a Golden Master and like it quite a bit. I’m sure for some folks it is too heavy-handed since you can kind of just slam it and call it a day. But I do like the way it fattens up the sound, and in a pinch you can use it as a performance tool as well, DJ-style (cut the low end, etc).

I think EG can cope just fine without the usual groups harping on about credit, proper licensing and general good taste or big, bad, tuff posturing about killing people based on statements/philosophy over action (I sincerely have no idea what the last commenters are rambling about, but some sources might help*. Preferably something more credible than social media gossip).

I guarantee that no one else cares anymore. Beyond being a glutton for punishment, the only reasons to potentially feel bad about buying this (or practically anything these days) are the low-level Chinese plant workers and Uyghur children mining rare-earth elements with their bloody, broken hands.

*Edit: Oh, THAT "controversy". I'd completely forgotten about it!

EDITED Jun 19th 2021, 13:11

I am always surprised by anti Behringer comments.
-- greenfly
Have you considered this might be due to your lack of information rather than the lack of evidence ? Or do you believe all these people calling Uli anti-semitic are doing it for funsies ?
Comments like "sure, they did it wrong, but so did others so it's ok" are a way to encourage mediocrity, in my view not something any intelligent person would want to encourage.
Oh, and I have a feeling your assumption about Eurorack being overpriced is coming from that same place of "I don't know but I'll have an opinion anyway"... There are already threads on the subject at least on ModWiggler, probably here as well, inform yourself.

Hey guys, so above is my rack that I have planned and the modules that I started with and actually own are Plaits, Marbles and Beads. My goal is to have a system focused around generative, granular, randomness and ambient.

I'm enjoying what I can do with the 3 modules but I'm looking for what might be a good module to add next, based on the options I have in the link above (or if you have any other recommendations I'm open to that as well!)

I'm leaning towards the quad VCA or qpas for more sound shaping options, but would love to hear what others think. Thanks in advance!

Hi Zuggamasta,

Yeah! Another donut jam from you :-) Great fun as always and here and there I discover some real interesting and nice sounds, lovely!

Most modules you mentioned, I don't have experience with them, so I can't help with those, however I have a Plaits and never regretted it. You called it a powerhouse of a module, well in a way it is perhaps but don't expect a magical module that can do everything. It's a really great sound generating module though, lots of fun is possible with it.

Good luck with your rack planning and kind regards, Garfield.

I think the antisemitism is enough reason to hate B*. If you don’t care about that, their unlicensed Arturia Keystep clone is another one.

MI designs are open source, so they’re free to use them. But my machine is supposed to kill fascists, not to support racists.

Hey Modulargridders
turns out it's better to get a bigger euorrack case ;) So now I'm planning my expansion in a second row with some bits and pieces I miss and some small space to grow.
Current 98hp are a lot of fun and are really striving from the input I got here on the forum! latest Jam with the Robaux LL8 as rhythm brain (I kicked out my midi module and I am not looking back)

Coming back to the planned second row, for now I'm really enjoying the idea to have two skiffs that can also work standalone and there are some DIY modules I'm interested in building.
Current wants & Favorites

DIY
Antumbra DVCA- As second half of veils (also VCAs)
AB+C - It's just super useful and there where times I wanted another one
Seismograph SD - It's a nice little kit and might be all I need
Stmix - I looked into a whole lot of more complex and featured mixers but always come back to basic setups
Robaux 3pt - I enjoyed the LL8 kit and mentality a lot, I want to use this for either quantizing or step sequencing

Assembled
Nearness - Those where recommended by Lugia and I really see a use for them in my rack

Others
Plaits, Beads - These two are kind of place holders, I like to have some granular module but might come back to bastl spa for that. I've recently come across a lot of techniques to use plaits and feel like it's a powerhouse of a module
Golden Master - I'm not sure if I'll go for this one, but at least I'm really digging into DAWless settings where I want something to add a little punch and EQ at the very end of the chain

I'm happy to hear about any tips tricks and further recommendations. Happy patching!

(I'm really not forcing the black panels thing. It just turns out a lot of DIY kits have them, haha)

EDITED Jun 18th 2021, 15:44

Thanks Lugia, I am powering over the supplied USB cable, I bet that is the the problem! I will give that a try!

I am always surprised by anti Behringer comments. Didn't Arturia use 7 Mutable algorithms in the MicroFreak? Was there a similar backlash? I can imagine some so called YouTube influencers rubbing their hands in glee with the release of this product so they can also add some anti Behringer comments of their own and watch as the ad revenue rolls in. Capitalism at its finest lol.

Maybe the oscillator display idea came from the MicroFreak.
I'm cool with Behringer to be honest , I think a lot of Eurorack gear is overpriced and cheaper alternatives is always a great option to have and certainly for me they facilitated my passion for Eurorack. If it wasn't for the Behringer Neutron I wouldn't have invested in the smaller boutiques and more well known Eurorack brand names.

I don't think I would buy this as I have an old Braids and Plaits but I could imagine buying it if I was just getting into Eurorack and something like this was £50 cheaper. Also in my opinion the ethics of the smaller boutiques who just ripped off the source code and created new modules with a slightly smaller footprint wasn't really in the spirit of Emile making her/his code open source. What Behringer have done is closer to what Emile imagined I think. It would be good if they released the code for their additional five algorithms.

I, for one, am surprised that anyone still gets surprised / annoyed / outraged by Uli's shenanigans. I'd be only surprised if he came up with something truly original ;)
Peace to ya'll.

I have nothing against Behringer; another MI clone, just like others clones around.

Plaits plus 4 extra osc plus oscilloscope and in black. If I feel I need it I would get this one over other clones.
And I do own 3 OG MI modules...

Lets face it, if this clone had been made by somebody else no-one would complain.

@JimHowell1970 Thanx for the reply,
That was my plan. 1 empty template. Did not work. When you save a project the midi channels will not save.
I have contact Korg about the matter a couple of weeks ago. No reply..

@witgezicht - I just had a quick glance through the manual - I couldn't find anything - I would contact korg support and ask them how to save the midi channel data - everything in there about saving appears to be linked to projects - as far as I can see in 5 mins - it is possible that you have to save a project and then reload it on power up to get the midi channels correct - so maybe you need to use 1 project as a template with your midi settings saved in it

I have this sequencer. Its nice. 1 Problem that i cant fix.

I play my Bitbox with it over midi.
When i set all the midi channels its okey untill i unpower the sequencer.
All is saved but with the startup the channels are different or mixed up.

So i can not use presets on the bitbox. Maybe i am missing something?

Hmmmm...sounds like since Uli's bunch did such a great job with the 2600 that they think it's time for Yet Another Uli Fiasco.

There's a big difference between resurrecting a 50 year old classic that's been out of production for decades, and coming up with a Walmart-priced VCO based on present-day Open Source tech that they only tacitly credit. While, yes, there's small manufacturers doing clones of the Mutable modules, these people aren't operating on the scale of Behringer. Losing credit for several dozen downsized clones is one thing, but losing credit for a module that might sell in the many thousands of units is quite tragic.

Uli should stick to gluing corks to stompboxes. At least with that, he's only really harming himself.

Have you tried a different wallwart supply? This sounds like a switching supply issue, because switching supplies tend to spew RF garbage when they're either in the process of failing, are being overtaxed by too much of a current draw, or just have sucky design in general. My bet is on #3, actually...find something with the right plug polarity and voltage but DOUBLE the available amperage. Fact is, there's a whole lotta processing going on in that box, and it might actually be overdrawing even Korg's own OEM wart!

...and even if that's not the issue, that bigger P/S will still be useful somewhere. But that's where I would start.

EDITED Jun 18th 2021, 01:54

So I own one of these, and I've noticed that when I am using it as CV gates over the 3.5mm outputs I am getting a lot of line noise. I don't seem to have this issue when I am using the included TRRS midi interface. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to gain stage it properly, or I don't have all the settings tweaked just right. I typically connect it to the individual trigger CVs on a 1010 Bitbox MK2, and it's coming through enough to be noticeable on recordings that I am doing. When I turn it off an use other modules and trigger it from 3.5 mm outputs on my Arturia MicroFreak, it goes away completely, so I am sure it's the Korg SQ-64 that's causing it. Has anybody else run into this problem?

The second bullet point under Product Features at the top of the page directly credits "Mutable Instruments Plaits sound engines".
-- homeslice1479

You are right there is mention of MI in the product features "20 digital oscillators including 15 Mutable Instruments Plaits* engines for infinite sound creation".

Also the license for MI Plaits is the MIT license (see: https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/plaits/open_source/ ), which means that license should be included in the derived work, but source code need not be. Fair enough.

But then you had to say "Don't be a hypocritical cork sniffer here." Now that's original.

If you click the "show more" in the Product Features of the product page, you'll see a url (not even a properly working hyperlink) to the Plaits github repo, but that's it. I bet their lawyers said that was sufficient, but that's disgusting as far as I'm concerned.
-- benirose

The second bullet point under Product Features at the top of the page directly credits "Mutable Instruments Plaits sound engines". Don't be a hypocritical cork sniffer here. This thing isn't even out yet, and has 73 one-star reviews. Yet the Antumbra Plaits clone, which doesn't even try to add any additional firmware, has a 4.52 rating. Absurd. People are so blinded by their Behringer hate that they're ignoring more severe slights against MI by dozens of other manufacturers. But they don't care, because they get a micro Plaits and can continue to say they don't use any Behringer gear. Lol these people don't give a d*mn about open source integrity.

If you click the "show more" in the Product Features of the product page, you'll see a url (not even a properly working hyperlink) to the Plaits github repo, but that's it. I bet their lawyers said that was sufficient, but that's disgusting as far as I'm concerned.

Even the clones give credit.

I don't see any mentioned of Plaits or MI. Given that the work is derivative of MI Plaits they should acknowledge as such and give credit to Emilie Gillet. The licensing on the GitHub page for MI (https://github.com/pichenettes/eurorack) says it is GPL3.0 in the case of Code (AVR projects) and the MIT license in the case of Code (STM32F projects). My reading of this is that in both cases, the license and copyright has to be published with the derivative work and in the case of the GPL 3.0 the source code of the derived work has to be open-source and provided with it.

God I agree with you, he's about to be at the bottom!!!! What's with the cheap copies, they obviously need to work on something other than that!!!

EDITED Jun 28th 2021, 13:08

Since last year, my rack has grown to this state. Currently I'm really happy and have a lot of fun with it.

I wanted to ask you for a bit Inspiration how I can fill the last HP, which are still open. I'm doing mostly a bit of techno, some melodic stuff and also some ambient from time to time.

As a sequencer I use a Beatstep Pro and for drums I use a Digitakt.

I am curious about your suggestions.

EDITED Jun 17th 2021, 10:20

Cool track. It's like it has a point of view that is constantly moving forward.

Thanks Lugia!

DeltaV can do CV too .It quite a clever module. As per the Cosmotronic blurb :
"Without anything patched into the VCA’s input, the module produces variable cv, an envelope set by the attack, decay and shape knobs. "

Right...I thought that it also made a better fit as the VCAs for the modulation row, since it's already got 2 or 3-stage EGs for the VCAs. Plus, it also functions as an independent mod generator in of itself. Very useful module!

If i took the WoggleBug out (i have other racks i could use it in) how do you think that gap should be filled?
I think something like a zlob diode chaos + a 2hp S+H would give me some wiggly cv...
and then have 11HP left for something....(or 10HP. i dont mind leaving 1hp for ventilation )
but what?
-- mamonu

Actually, the Wogglebug's a very good fit here. It'll allow you to inject chaotic modulation aspects into your otherwise-normal modulation sources. You can easily use the Dreadbox's onboard mixing for this sort of thing, as it's placed well here for that.

Seriously, I wouldn't change any of the module complement here. On that aspect, you really nailed it. The only "flaw" I see here is a lack of an output module...which, if you're in part of the world where balanced power is the norm, might not be all that necessary as long as you've got a mixer that can handle synth-level signals at its input pres.

Actually, I think this might be a stronger end-result:

Notice that it retains a proper touchplate controller now, with a LOT of functions that were missing (like sequencing). Plus, this is a beefier controller than the usual LEM 218. Then for the open slot that left, I put in a 257e which gives you some CV processing as well as a trio of slope generators that can act as a more complex modulation source. This seems to me to be a lot more solid, especially if you were to add Northern Light's O&c card for the cardslot.

Thanks Lugia!

DeltaV can do CV too .It quite a clever module. As per the Cosmotronic blurb :
"Without anything patched into the VCA’s input, the module produces variable cv, an envelope set by the attack, decay and shape knobs. "

If i took the WoggleBug out (i have other racks i could use it in) how do you think that gap should be filled?
I think something like a zlob diode chaos + a 2hp S+H would give me some wiggly cv...
and then have 11HP left for something....(or 10HP. i dont mind leaving 1hp for ventilation )
but what?
ideas welcome :)

Hi Stephen,

Thanks a lot for sharing your video with us, nice, informative and entertaining that is :-) So conclusion... I should stick with my Eurorack rack and not consider the 5U rack system? ;-) Anyway, I don't have the space for such a large 5U system, it's nice to see you have one 5U wall full of it though :-D

Glad to see you have a Roland FA-06 too, I got the FA-06 before I got into Eurorack, nowadays using it too less (focussing too much on Eurorack), it's indeed a great workstation!

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

The module complement isn't too bad, although I would've wanted to see some sort of slope generator in the modulation row.

All I did here was to alter the layout and make it more coherent. Except for the LxD, all of the audio is now in the upper row, modulation/control in the bottom. This should be a lot easier to patch since everything's now set up to flow left-right as well. Seems a lot more solid like this...although I would've liked the "utility strip" on the top instead of the bottom, but it looks like Dreadbox didn't allow for that in this design.

EDITED Jun 17th 2021, 00:27

Hi Bleepadelic,

Thank you :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

It depends. If you're talking about basic mixers, the sort that get used for summing, these MUST BE in the build.

As for using external mixers at synthesizer signal levels for your outputs, this can be a problem, particularly if you're aiming to send synth-level signals into an A-D converter that's expecting to see standard pro-level (ie: 1.4Vrms @ 0VU) signals. These are almost certain to overload. There are analog mixers that CAN handle these sorts of levels, but the rationale for using present-day performance mixers in a modular setup is that you can automate many different aspects of your mix via modulation signals. Before these got more common, I would say that mixing via a small outboard mixer with the preamp gains rolled WAAAY back would be the right move...but when things like the Stereomix2, etc now exist, they're 100% the right way to go.

Is this really just a Braids/Plaits knock-off? :|

The world doesn't need another MI clone, but I guess with their manufacturing resources, it's just about racing to the bottom to release the absolute cheapest knock-off/clone of something in hopes of dominating an already flooded market.

Very cool, I like how it sounds like all the parts are pushing and pulling on the rhythm.

I'l follow up on that advice. I am making a raw sketch of what I will buy first atm.

A question I have though:

Is it really that usefull to have a mixer module IN the rack itself? Because I have some VCA's and eg:shades. And could mix outboard on the UCX software 'Totalmix' or does this have its drawbacks?

I am not a modular neophyte. I have a big frac rack and also an original Roland 100m D-Set.
I do like small complete mini-systems however and just wanted to show you my ambient rack...

ambient as in.. stuff that rbeny does..

or like tetsu inoue

what do you think?
balanced? a piece of crap selection?
should i change something?
even an improved different way of placing the modules in my dreadbox168 case would be interesting...

i usually get 2/3 voices out of it. slow changing melodies or fart sounds :)
I have seen some nice critiques for other racks and thought perhaps its time for me to show my rack
ps i am building a seperate system for percussive sounds that i will present at a later time :)

all the best and please be gentle(or not :) )

mamonu

EDITED Jun 16th 2021, 20:20

Hi Guys,

I have large and lovely 5U system that I started in 2015 but my attitude to "formats" has changed 180-degress since then....
My video below explains why I chose to start my Eurorack collection.
If you like, check out my channel, I have PLAYLISTS for both 5U and Eurorack
But here are two take-aways from this post:
1. 5U and Eurorack play beautifully together and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
2. Mutable Instruments has a LOT of modules in the "top 100" for a REASON ..... they are FANTASTIC multi-function modules that deliver the features we need for specific outcomes..... for instance, see the minimalist patch that I use to get 3-channels of Random Generative music from MARBLES (normally to get this outcome we would need quite a few modules taking up more space and costing more money)

Best Wishes,
Stephen Mendes

My idea got a bit out of hand by including two more rows but I plan to buy it in two periods of time. I hope this revision is better as I took the whole day off to get this together. I still got two weeks till I will start the build IRL. So until then I hope this machine can grow.

Kind regards,

Glenn
-- LNITB

Not out of hand - it's given you an idea of your actual case size and power requirements

Personally I would go a lot slower than this - buy the right case and just a minimum viable synth - 1 voice (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier and whatever support modules you need for that - how to play, how to listen etc)

actually touching modules can change plans quite a lot too - especially once you first start patching

so I would then get used to that for at least a few weeks before adding anything else - and add slowly - make notes of things that you want to do but can't - ask questions etc - this will influence you as you acquire modules

Hi guys!

Link to the second version of "Die welt ist alles, was der fall ist":

So I took my time and made a revision of my idea. I followed Lugias idea mainly. But still I may have got some weird picks here and there. The cases from Lake Cabs are amazing and so cheap for what they are. They look beautiful too. Really got that natural vibe that gets to me instantly. Thank you for bringing those up. o/

I chose to not include the Instruō arbhar while it all looks and sounds amazing I chose to go for the Morphagene instead (maybe). The sound speaks more to me. I am also not sure about including the Shapeshifter. It is way better for my use-case than SWN but I may still just remove this module. Same can be said about the morphagene and or DPO. I'd love to include all of these but budget and an overload of sound sources do not seem right to me, what do you guys think? Both The Z-plane filter I fell in love with, just wow. Same can be said about the data bender.

The left half of the bottom row I am not sure about. I was thinking of including less chaotic stuff. But maybe this will work just fine... I will do some more research about these control modules. While some look great I do not know if they fit my use case -yet.

My idea got a bit out of hand by including two more rows but I plan to buy it in two periods of time. I hope this revision is better as I took the whole day off to get this together. I still got two weeks till I will start the build IRL. So until then I hope this machine can grow.

Kind regards,

Glenn

Just a quick note:
The Instruō arbhar has an expander that comes included with the module (you don't have to buy it separately), it's another 2HP. It has 8 CV inputs and allows for CV control over all the remaining parameters not found on the main faceplate. Very useful.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/instruo-arbhar-expander

https://www.instruomodular.com/product/arbhar/

https://www.instruomodular.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Arbhar-Quickstart-Website.pdf

Ahoy there, I've never left a comment before!

Source of Uncertainty - hard to go wrong with this, it adds a lot to the Easel and doesn't have any features you can't use, which is not always the case. Nice to have the sample and hold and slew (integrator) functionality in addition to the noise and quite flexible possibilities of the various random voltages.

Rating: 4/5

SAModular: 140 euro for PCBs + panel or 380 euro for full kit. I can tell you that sourcing each of those 1% resistors is a nightmare, there are so many weird values that are hard to source in small quantities I would be tempted to just get the kit. I have a spare PIC programmed with white noise, just flashed it at Andrew's.

EMS: $149 for PCBs, panel OOS.

Quad Function Generator - No doubt about it that the 208 is missing envelopes. The fact that these have AD/ASD and LFO modes is nice, it takes up a lot of space for four envelopes but there's also CV control over the attack and decay which I think would pair nicely with the SoU. Quadrature mode might be useful in a blue moon, but it's likely it was designed specifically for quad panning. Note that like all of Roman's clones, there are a number of issues with this design, detailed here:
https://modularsynthesis.com/roman/buchla281/281_qfg.htm

Another option would be something based on Aaron Lanterman's adaptation: https://modularsynthesis.com/lanterman/208eg/208eg.htm or taking something from Mutable or 4Ms' PEG and adapting it to 15V. I'd be happy to work on panel stuff if ever that's a concern.

Rating: 3/5

SAModular: 150 euro for PCB + panel. Nothing looks too exotic in the BOM, but I could be wrong since the full kit is quite expensive.

EMS: $130 for PCBs, panel OOS.

Dual Voltage Processor - This is the biggest question mark for me, and I don't see it as very useful given all the hands-on controls on the 208. My recommendation is to sub this out with Model 244 CV Toolbox. You get a dual VCA, quad quantizer, manual triggers, pulse divider, sequential switch and analogue shift register* in 1U. It's a great jack-of-all-trades with no overlap from the 208. There are problems with the ASR, but luckily they have been figured out and there's a well-documented fix here.
https://modularsynthesis.com/roman/buchla244/244cvt.htm - if you like the DVP idea, you could also fit two serge CGS 381 (based on the Serge PRC which inspired Maths) into a 1U Buchla panel - quad voltage processing and only $40 worth of PCBs!
https://www.elby-designs.com/contents/en-us/p560.html

Rating: 1/5

SAModular: 130 euro for PCB + panel.

EMS: PCB for the DVP is $100, panel OOS. For the 244, PCBs are $250 and the panel is $55. It's expensive, but offers a lot more functionality than the DVP, even if you have to throw in a $15 PCB to improve the ASR design.

Touch Sensing Note Memory - Without a Touch Activated Voltage Source this just feels like such a quick victory, and with all the features packed in this is a great fit. I only wish it had 4 more outputs, but no module is perfect. Knowing that the new firmware is going to be ported to the 4U model is just icing on the cake. Don't order one without me ha!

Rating: 5/5

Other (out there) ideas

If you're doing rhythmic stuff and want something cheap and highly effective without the intensity of a 2OC ornament and crime or the 2TT time trigger, there is this: https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=247453

Have you considered a Signal Delay Unit? Todd Barton has been posting lots of videos with his lately and it's quite interesting, a different palette than what the Easel typically has.

If you do go with the Quad Function Generator, this has just been announced which would offer a lot of interesting possibilities:
https://1979.ws/dual-sequential-switch/

Lots to think about but that's all for now!

Yeah, when I do a rebuild, I do have to settle on some sort of cab to stick it all in. And those Case From Lake cabs are really attractive on a number of levels, so I've been concentrating in that direction as of late, especially when people appear to want something more substantial than a Mantis (awesome tho they are!). My aim here is to come up with a divergent idea with these, which hopefully then jog posters' minds about things they'd NOT entertained as being part of their build. Plus, it's always helpful for people to see a possible goal, even if their end result might be different.

Hi Bleepadelic,

Thanks a lot for the details! Kind regards, Garfield.

This module should be updated to match the information on the Doepfer website. It has been extensively redesigned.

I love my Division6 sequencer, also in an affordable and doable DIY kit

thanks for your answer, I'm planning to use it as a converter, without the mixer, to tame the signal levels (if it does that)

I give you my nearly finished synth. I just wanted to show this off so that everyone understands that your posts, comments, ideas, and care can help someone else's situation. I got into modular at the beginning of the year and I have my first synth nearly completed thanks to you.

@cameliamusic
I have already heard about that, I would like to rather use the O_c for its complex CV Modulation, or can you use more algorithms at the same time?
-- VincentDano

If you have Hemispheres loaded, both sides can be used independently as different algorithms :)

Thank you for the kind words! I don't remember exactly what I used on this but I think it is a Doepfer 101-2 low pass gate through a Pittsburgh Modular Crow filter. There also might be an oscilator in front of the LPG. It might be a Crow being pinged and run through another Crow. The reverb is a Meris Mercury 7, and it does sound great cranked, but I try not to do that all the time. As far as the voltages triggering and varying everything I don't remember but I usually start with a couple of waves through logic or a clock divider. I spend hours patching and tweaking to get it to sound human and realistic.