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@cameliamusic
I have already heard about that, I would like to rather use the O_c for its complex CV Modulation, or can you use more algorithms at the same time?

regarding keeping the Scales in the rack for quantization of random voltage sources, the uO_C has brilliant quantizers in the original firmware & Hemispheres Suite!

@JimHowell1970
Hello Jim, thank you for your comprehensive comment. I already thought about ditching the chord in favour of some utilities.
What would be some good utility options there?
I would still like to have a quantiser to convert any random voltage into musical notes though, maybe there is a smaller, more fitting version of the scales module.
You also talked about a better melodic sequencer, what options do I have there? I also looked into that and saw the Winter Modular Eloquencer, which seemed to be a little complex and not ver intuitive at first sight, but maybe you are aware of some better options!
I also completely looked over the mixing issue, my first instinct would be to add another Mixup, because the are relatively compact and chain together nicely, also open for more fitting options here. I think I could also take out the 1U Outs module by Intellijel, because I just recently learned that you can connect the mixup to the case-internal outs, and put in another Dual 1U VCA to replace it. That would give me a total of 10 Vca's (2x Dual VCA, Tallin, Veils).
About Rainmaker, I once tried it out in a store and instantly fell in love with it, and it seems like a very well thought out and interesting module, but I would still totally be open to any smaller options, since it is quite big.
Thanks again for taking the time.

EDITED Jun 15th 2021, 15:50

Hi Vincent

I think you are trying to do too much in too small a space

too many voices - I generally think 1 per row is enough - 1 1/2 at a push - you have 2 1/2 per row

this is because you won't have the space for the modulation and utility modules that are needed to support them - unless of course you aspire to perform like you are on crack - see frenetic modular influencers and 'artists' who constantly touch and micro adjust knobs - this is what modulation and utilities are for people

saying that I think you have enough modulation - maybe too much - but no way of doing interesting things with them - combining, multing, modifying them - not enough utilities - I don't think 6 vcas is enough for 4 sound sources, even if some have built in ones & where are the submixers? and how are you doing final stage mixing? mix up? not enough channels so you can listen to all the sound sources at once!!!

NB regarding vcas - they are useful for so much more than opening and closing audio - they can also be patched as compressors, crossfaders, auto-panners and are fantastic for control voltage

rainmaker is a huge delay - and a lot of people seem to buy it and then not get on with it

midi/sequencer/pams - all have built in quantization - the scales is redundant - especially in this size case

I would keep only 2 of midi/sequencer/pams - I would drop either midi or sequencer and if I kept the midi I would go with a midi interface that can support hte number of voices in the rack - I count 5!

I'd probably also go for a better melodic sequencer - especially if you want to dial things in easily

NB changing 'chord' and keeping disparately sequenced melodies in key - ie changing a major to a minor or vice versa is quite difficult in modular - there is a brilliant solution - sinfonion, but it is large and expensive and only really of benefit once you have a polyphonic voice and at least 3 others

a good ratio to start thinking about when planning a modular is:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

and start with modules you want - add what is needed to support all these modules and leave 30% free for expansion (add 10mA/hp/rail for power to be on the safe side) and then find the right case for you

these last 2 statements will save you money (eventually) - maybe not to start with in that you will end up with a bigger, probably more expensive case - but in the long run as you will not end up buying/builidng cases as a hobby

EDITED Jun 15th 2021, 13:42

Thank you so much for all that work. I'l check the rack intesively. After that i'l come back to this thread with hopefully something better. I'l keep all you both said in mind. Thank you once more. I'l have some work to do now. :)

Hello everybody,

I already posted this on reddit a little while ago, but didn't receive a ton of feedback.
I would say that I am pretty experienced with modular synthesis, I just never build anything to that scale before and all the module options seem a little bit overwhelming.

I am in love with the IDM and Outsider-House-Genre and its complex rhythms and textures, muffled fuzzy drums and overall raw quality.
The results should be musical, I.E in a set key, since I would like to further work on it in my DAW. Also, (and I know that this might be a bit more difficult to realize keeping the other goal in mind), I would love to process my guitar and integrate it musically. Maybe even allow other sound sources (like the radio!) to get in. It would be nice, if the build was also be able to be performed on, I.E change chords, melodies bass-lines on the fly, mute tracks etc, although thats not a necessity.
Sampling is also very crucial, I once saw someone sample a Drum and Bass type breakbeat, also vocals, I would love to do similar stuff.
As far as size goes, the Intellijel 104 7u case would be a good guideline, it doesn’t HAVE to be that case, its a good reference to what I am looking for sizewise.

In short:
-Create interesting textures and rhythms (inspired by the Outsider House Genre -> See Four Tet: Pink (Album), pretty much EXACTLY what I want to do on there.
-Play in a set key, to further work on it in my DAW
-Process my guitar and integrate it musically, allow other sources for example the radio to get in and be manipulated
-Finally, being able to be performed on (change melodies, mute tracks on the fly), although thats not a necessity!

I feel like I am not quite there yet:
Thank you for your time reading this and have a nice day.

EDITED Jun 15th 2021, 13:17

I have a tex-mix setup - theres a tiny bit of bleed at higher volumes

not sure about with DOUTS - I have 2 3hp ones to build but that won't be for a few months yet

Hi Lugia !
Any feedbacks aboute those tesseract modules ?
I'm particularly interested in the DOUTs to multitrack my modular, no bleeding ?

thx !

great advice there, as usual, @Lugia

I had a quick skim through Lugia's reply too

almost everything he says is spot on - almost always in my opinion

better to start without a planned case and work out the modules you want and the modules you need to support them + 20-30% free for expansion - rather than starting with a specific case

Also a BIG thank you to SCALEBRAIN for designing this rack, I already see that it's better than mine and as I said I will pull the DFAM out once I can get enough money. I wanted to start this project and build on it gradually!

I agree with Lugia - also note standard size for rack cases is 19" which gives 84hp a row - not about 100hp - so unless it's a special order you may be disappointed - or you are confusing us (me) with thon rack case and purpose built 104hp thon eurorack case

also had a quick look at ASEC - music was ok, but I hate that frentic constantly micro moving knobs and touching the modular for no purpose performance style - the only module he really appeared to be paying any attention to was the erica bassline - by that I mean he twiddled those knobs for at least 2 seconds continuously at one point - he seemed to spend much more time interacting with the elektron boxes than with the modular

also I'm not convinced the DFAM is that good for "riffy hypnotic leads" - I think you would probably be better off with something else for this and for "hypnotic" I usually think of modulated reverbs and delays

-- JimHowell1970
ASEC is not the only one that inspired me I also did a lot of research on Blawan, Ansome, Surgeon and Benki.
As far as I checked DFAM is really good for this kind of techno as it's not just a drum synth, but again I may be wrong about that as I am completely new to all this.

If you don't have the $$$ for two cases, then don't put the DFAM in the cab. It's that simple. It already has power and a housing, ergo it doesn't need one, and by putting it in the Eurorack cab you're not only inflating the cost of the DFAM for no good reason, but you're taking up much of an entire row of the Thon cab that should be filled with modules that need both power and housing. And 60 hp is NOT a trivial amount of space! Same advice applies to the Neutron as well.
-- Lugia
I don't even have enough to fill the rack all at once so I want to have at least two functional synths in it for now. As I would progress with filling up the rack I would eventually take it out and replace it with other modules.

top stuff sir! thank you very much for all your help. I'll make sure to post the system once it arrives

sounds sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

due to the < 's needing spaces around them

EDITED Jun 15th 2021, 08:37

Though I think @TumeniKnobs cat's Poo-patching is a step too far, might need to ad a Instruo Scion for some bio-feedback!

Hi Jim

Thank you so much for your time and reply as it helped me out alot. Tomorrow I will have more time to go indepth but for now I changed things up a bit. The biggest change would be removing swn. From all sound sources it is the one I need the least. After that I added a bunch of utility: (The ones you named I will research them indepth later since I just got of work.)

The thing I am not quite sure about are LFO2 and ST mix. I dont think they are ideal to handle that many mono outputs even though SWN has been removed and I have added Shades. I'm guessing I must search for some summing mixer...

And btw I just loved Zadar. It is exactly what I need. Thank you very much for that and your info I'm just curious what you meant by your last sentence as it got cut of for some reason?

Add me to the "DON'T" column where these mini cabs are concerned. They exist for very specific types of builds...say, if you want to add a modular modulation setup to an existing synth with the proper I/O. But they 100% SUUUUUUUCK for building a proper modular synth. Since you only have at most about 60 hp to play with, you can either build

1) a really disappointing modular with a lot of the necessary control functions missing, or

2) a really disappointing modular that DOES have all of the necessary control functions, but unless you've got fingers that are the diameter of chopsticks, you're going to have a VERY bad time controlling/adjusting things.

I know that there's a Certain Synth Retailer that does a lot of these minicab builds for YouTube demos. And sure, they tout 'em up real good. But in case you've not noticed, look again...by the time the demo clip is done, after some 10-20 minutes, they've exhausted the possibilities for those builds. And with a well-implemented modular system, that should either NEVER happen, or you'll be old, grey and wrinkly by the time it does.

I would strongly suggest deleting this build, for starters. Instead of trying again immediately, though, get a copy of VCV Rack if you don't have one. Explore that, and you'll eventually start to notice that getting really incredible results hinges on matters of scale and not having one or two specific modules in a "beauty case". Give VCV a real thrashing, get a much better idea of what's needed and WHY, and THEN come back to trying builds here once you're armed with a much clearer vision of what needs to be in them, and therefore, what sort of build size you're REALLY needing. It'll help you avoid some very expensive mistakes! https://vcvrack.com/

Ripped into this...since the aim was to make a creative device for granular and wavetable synthesis, but there was an awful lot wrong with the implementation, I jumped in and came up with a little something that goes in one of Case From Lake's 3 x 104 cabs (see https://reverb.com/item/36194432-9u-eurorack-case-powered-84-or-104-hp-desktop-synth-modular-synthesizer).

OK...so, let's have a look at this thing...

Top row: This is almost all audio, save for the Ladik dual slew limiter at the left end. Starting from the left, you'll find a dual input preamp specifically for feeding external audio to the various sampling-type functions in the rig. Then the dual slew, and after that is Mordax's new GXN granular synthesis/sampling module. Then for wavetables, I put in an Intellijel Shapeshifter. Since these are both stereo-out modules, there's a Veils next and a Doepfer A-138s for spatializing the sources before they're fed to the Rossum Morpheus. That stereo digital filter is a modular version of the "Z-Plane" filter found in some of the later E-Mu Proteus synths, albeit without the "brakes" that E-Mu originally had in there to keep things more or less under control. Then as if that wasn't enough, the Qu-bit Data Bender is a stereo digital audio "buffer" which can be abused in numerous ways to mangle audio prior to feeding that to the mixer in the bottom row.

Middle row: Modulation, except for the effects at the right end. The little white sliver is a Konstant Labs PWRchekr, which is a VERY useful way to both fill 1 hp AND to keep an eye on the health of your DC power busses. Then the Qu-bit Nanorand gives you a bunch of random options ranging from noise, to random outputs, to sample and hold, and the like. The Shifty is a neat little thing that'll probably be useful with the GXN, as it's an analog shift register, a series of cascaded sample-and-hold circuits that store-and-forward CV values that makes for a very effective arpeggiator-ish module and which can allow for a degree of hocketed polyphony. Then the Maths, followed by a Frap 321 for manipulating modulation signals, and a Happy Nerding 3xVCA for linear-response VCAs for controlling modulation levels. Both useful for LFOs and envelopes, a Quadrax is after those, along with its Qx expander for cascading the EGs, etc. Then another expander is after that, the Nin, which is for the Xaoc Zadar quad EG. And while that's it for the modulation, there's still a couple of effects: a Calsynth Monsoon (an expanded variation on Mutable's Clouds) and an Instruo Arbhar, both of which offer a wealth of granular-based transformations.

Bottom row: Control, pretty much. An Erica 1 or 2 voice MIDI interface also allows you to lock up your DAW clock to the clocking environment in the build as well as providing two channels of CV and gate for DAW-controlled sequences. Then next, there's a pile of clock manipulation tools: a Frequency Central High Towers provides four channels of clock division, then the Eowave Swing offers another four channels of delayed pulses. The Ladik Skipper is a dual-channel stochastic pulse skipper, which can be CV controlled to add random dropped notes and/or rests. Then Frequency Central's Reset Simulation provides Boolean logic for tampering with clock behavior. After that, a Xaoc Bytom works as a "diode-OR" summer set for clock pulses. After all of that, then we have the NerdSeq tracker sequencer, which can NOW be used in some much more complex ways thanks to all of the clock manglers. Following it is a Frequency Central effect module, their Stasis Leak, which gives you a CV-controlled stereo reverb, tap-tempo delay, and chorus, and since this uses a mono-in/stereo-out interface, it works perfectly with the FX send/return on the Toppobrillo Stereomix2. That mixer contains VCAs for individual levels, panning, and AUX send levels, plus a CUE bus, headphone preamp, FX send/return loop, mutes per channel, and one or two other surprises. Lastly, since we now have a situation where you'd want to split the Stereomix2's output to one or the other (or BOTH) the Monsoon and Arbhar, I changed out the Befaco output module for Bastl's Ciao!, which gives you a mixable pair of stereo inputs, your balanced outputs, and another headphone preamp (post-mix and post-FX).

So...why is this so much bigger? Well, when you start playing around with these big, complex stereo source and modifier modules, they tend to require a lot more to wring every last bit of strangeness out of them. And that "more" is, naturally, more modulation and control signals. So this got a big kick from a two-row design to three rows so that this can be accomplished effectively. Thanks to Case From Lake's crazy AF prices for their well-powered and well-designed cabs, this isn't so much of a budgetary "hit" as, say, going from a Doepfer A-100 2 x 84 to a 3 x 84 (which would cost $145: from $530 to $675). Plus, it also contains a lot of what Jim mentions above, which also takes space to implement. But at this point, this is a pretty solid rig as it stands here. You might run out of ideas with it eventually...but that's likely to take YEARS, since this is so full of possible uses and/or abuses.

Yes I apologize for not explaining it in the post. So I have an separate groovebox (EMX-1) which would be for making drums and some synths (speaking for a live situation). So the eurorack would be for more percussive sounds, leads or riffs. Wanted to do it a bit like ASEC (check him out on youtube).
DFAM would mostly be for riffy hypnotic leads.
I would also like to use this setup in my studio for now as I do not have enough money to make two cases (one for studio and one for live).

In conclusion the rack would serve as the main synth and percussion part for live techno.

-- Obscur

So - if you are using an external midi capable device in any way, I would recommend a midi to CV/gate converter right off the bat for a few reasons. The first being obvious CV/Gate patterns via existing Midi machines. Another is for setting up utilities like clock dividers, reset trigs, slow/odd sequence steps/timings, and I'm sure there is more that I am forgetting but external midi sequencers are highly capable of providing great utility to your modular setup (especially if you want one modular case for everything).

I cooked up a little rig quickly attempting to use some similar modules and some completely different ones. The artist you posted is a fairly popular style of techno so you should easily be able to achieve that with the DFAM. Using it in combo with the Morphagene might yield cool evolving patterns as well as an audio sampler so I kept that in there (and for background textures etc.). Mimeophon is great for an effect as it is delay/reverb-like.

The midi thing is just a decent midi module I have personal experience building. Pretty simple to work and good build quality from Befaco (I get the DIY kits). Muxlicer is a great sequencer as it has lots of utilities built in, as well as the ability to be manipulated via LFO to totally mess up the sequence order in-time. So plugging percussion trigs from the channel outs summed down into the Bytom and you get cool trigger sequences for drums/bass - mute/swap/mix them w/ the Mutes/Switchblade modules. Also swapping the CV from either the Mux or the DFAM or Midi pitch CV is great for getting a live groove vs a pre-recorded groove.

I'm not familiar with the Basimilus, but I know it is a drum module that can be 'struck' or 'trigged' so that's a bonus. You can plug it into optomix and get even chirpier 'plucks' and run it wide open/drone, or use the onboard decay control to shorten it up within the module itself. I kept the Belgrad filter in cause its multi-mode which is good. Optomix for the ability to 'duck' voices via CV or audio/mixing/vactrols are sweet. Maths cause maths.

Mutes for audio muting and then Mixer to finish it off - I didn't know what you would be into, but I find I like blending the audio together and summing down when I perform so I can get total control - so I threw the ALM mixer in for spatial and volume easy mixing solution w/ Ext In for external gear (not sure if the gain will be high enough though - didn't read the manual).

Mimeophon as a end of chain effect for good measure as it covers delays/reverb washy stuff.

There isn't a lot of "voice's" here - but if you pulled the DFAM that would give you more room for extra LFO's, some type of Turing machine sequencer would be ideal, maybe more elaborate mixer, sample and hold, and maybe another standalone voice in there if possible. With clever use of the Morphagene, you can get away with less modulators, as you can record knob movements and then play them back with audio recordings that layer up on stuff which could be awesome. Or even use Morphagene for drum loops along the rest of the stuff - who knows.

I agree with Lugia - also note standard size for rack cases is 19" which gives 84hp a row - not about 100hp - so unless it's a special order you may be disappointed - or you are confusing us (me) with thon rack case and purpose built 104hp thon eurorack case

also had a quick look at ASEC - music was ok, but I hate that frentic constantly micro moving knobs and touching the modular for no purpose performance style - the only module he really appeared to be paying any attention to was the erica bassline - by that I mean he twiddled those knobs for at least 2 seconds continuously at one point - he seemed to spend much more time interacting with the elektron boxes than with the modular

also I'm not convinced the DFAM is that good for "riffy hypnotic leads" - I think you would probably be better off with something else for this and for "hypnotic" I usually think of modulated reverbs and delays

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Ha, ha, or on purpose leave your cat unsupervised at your rack and perhaps it manages to change the patch in an interesting way ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hello Bleepadelic,

Nice first post/track you have here! Interesting, experimental jam, especially since one knowns that this is made by a self generative patch :-)

+1 for TumeniKnobs, I would like to see some patch notes on this too, it would be interesting to know how you did it :-)

Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Glenn

have you bought these modules or are you still thinking about it?

you seem to have a lot of sound sources (morphagene, dpo, panharmonium, SWN), a few sound modifiers (panharmonium, morphagene, wasp, ripples), a sequencer and almost no support modules - including (but not limited to) modulation sources, vcas and mixing

how are you going to mix these sound sources - you have an output module? but no way of mixing to stereo (3 out of 4 your sound modifiers are mono) and no way of mixing waveforms from the dpo (other than 'final' I guess) - the only mono sound source - or combining say the outputs from swn before sending the signal to a filter

there are no delays or reverbs - really useful especially if you want to do what you have stated - you can't go wrong with an fx aid xl

not enough modulation - Stages is a great module - but it is enough on it's own for that number of modulation inputs and it is not necessarily a great first modulation source, especially for you, yes it can provide 6 envelope, but they are very short and patching it to do something else quickly eats up channels

perhaps you should look at zadar - you can get very long and varied modulation envelopes out of it

I copied the rack so I could make sure it was an swn hiding and found a load of modules hiding out of the rack - the cat was unhappy to see me! - the only module that I would recommend that you add to this rack is Maths - it's a particularly great module - especially as there is the maths illustrated supplement which documents 32 self patching ideas - and as such is a brilliant primer for modular synthesis in general - even if you don't buy the module - read the supplement!

VCAs - the vca appears to be an afterthought - VCAs are fundamentally important modules - they control the amount of a signal going through the module and they allow you to do this with a control voltage - so you don't have to do it with your hand - when patched with appropriate (and essential) modules (an lfo, a mult and a polariser/offset) you can turn 2 vcas into an auto panner, use a cascading vca - you can also use them to change the level of control voltages going to modulation sources

I would dump the pico one and replace it with something like veils (a quad cascading vca) which will also work as an input module if needed as well as a mixer

I always strongly recommend a starter set of utilities - links, kinks, shades - or similar modules (kinks has been discontinued recently - buy one if you can find one!) and a quad cascading vca (as mentioned above)

I also often recommend following this ratio to get more out of your modular for less cash:

sound sources

If you don't have the $$$ for two cases, then don't put the DFAM in the cab. It's that simple. It already has power and a housing, ergo it doesn't need one, and by putting it in the Eurorack cab you're not only inflating the cost of the DFAM for no good reason, but you're taking up much of an entire row of the Thon cab that should be filled with modules that need both power and housing. And 60 hp is NOT a trivial amount of space! Same advice applies to the Neutron as well.

In the end - modular sequencing/utilities is really where eurorack starts to shine in my opinion
-- SCALEBRAIN

absolutely sequencing, modulation and how you combine, modify (via utilities) and use these to control the synth are often more important and interesting than which modules you are using to create the sounds and/or modify them

could we please have the any incomplete rows left-justified rather than fully justified?
that should work now. > -- modulargrid

Thanks!

Thanks :)
This cat in particular likes chewing cables, her favs are USB but I have teeth marks in a few patch cables too! Not to be left unsupervised!

Hi,

I would like to ask if this is an acceptable setup? I did my research well. Except I am having a hard time figuring out to make an end product that works well.

My intentions for this machine are to make it a sampler/mangler and wavetable synth. Planning to create ethereal but also obscure sounds for my production. On the software side of things I use Renoise|Reaktor 6 so I am used to using tracker interfaces.

In the end to repeat myself I am looking for a versitile non creative restricting machine.

Thank you for your time reading this and have a nice day.

Kind regards,

Glenn

Thank you very much!

As Jim mentions - its a pretty small space for a full on system, and it will certainly lack quite a bit of control of which makes modular worth the plunge to begin with.

Another good starter case might be the ALM DIY cases, as they start at 3u 84hp, and 6u 84hp - this is a little more room to get a few more necessities into the case to make your first full case patches worthwhile/exciting to come back and learn with. Decent price if you are okay with the small amount of building it requires.

My first case was 84hp and had a similar module compliment (Make Noise Telharmonic oscillator + Maths + MMG + Optomix) - within the first month or so I had another 7u performance case on order, as well as another 84hp of Roland system 500. A small amount of modules can certainly breed creativity, but it can also be a real nuisance when you can't achieve the sound in your head simply cause you lack needed utilities you don't have room for. I would constantly patch simple ambient drones that sounded cool, but ultimately a lot of money for the result. This is something you will learn over the course of messing with your first modules - you currently have the idea of creating a relatively complex synth voice, but the choice of modules will inevitable end up not providing much in that small case/setup without significant external control / constant hands on modulations. You may find after some initial experimentation that you want a completely different system, which is fine, but hard to achieve if you stick within a certain size constraint, and something you will never know without taking the initial plunge to start. There are always newer/smaller/more feature packed modules at any time that do what you want but better.

As for starter modules as an option - I would suggest the Dreadbox Chroma series, as bang for the buck they have a lot of good functionality and features for small systems.

The Intellijel Palette style cases are pretty shallow (I own both the 62hp and 104hp) - so I find keeping a pack of m3 standoffs can be helpful to raise the module up a bit to remove pressure on the power connector (won't sit flush with the other modules however).

Switches/VCAs/attenuators & attenuverters are your best friend for modular, as they allow you to patch/setup a modulation depth - and then turn it on/off as needed at any given moment (some are CV controlled to which is great - Acidlab Switchblad or ADDAC VC Rotator for example).

In the end - modular sequencing/utilities is really where eurorack starts to shine in my opinion - all my smaller cases have been relegated to control or mixing skiffs for larger systems I own.

Yes I apologize for not explaining it in the post. So I have an separate groovebox (EMX-1) which would be for making drums and some synths (speaking for a live situation). So the eurorack would be for more percussive sounds, leads or riffs. Wanted to do it a bit like ASEC (check him out on youtube).
DFAM would mostly be for riffy hypnotic leads.
I would also like to use this setup in my studio for now as I do not have enough money to make two cases (one for studio and one for live).

In conclusion the rack would serve as the main synth and percussion part for live techno.

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 20:05

I listened a few times now. Nice, aptly named track. ;-) I might like it even more swimming in reverb, but I always overdo it, so maybe you're right. Can you give us some patch notes on this?

And welcome!

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 19:40

Whenever I design a case, I'm always asking myself - what is the general use-case or ideal system for the task at hand.

It would appear to me you're looking for a complex synth voice of some kind in the first setup and not a full on groove-box style approach. Where the second iteration looks a bit more random/percussive for whatever reason.

I've found that since the Mother32/DFAM come with a powered skiff, that I end up pulling it from my larger cases to use externally, but still patched to the system to save space. My question would be - what do you hope to get from the DFAM in the case? If its just for modular drums, it is really best at handling 1x drum tone at a time in a small system. You can do a little patching hack where you use the sequencer to control noise level - but its pretty simplistic with only the 8 steps to work with and no reset input for the DFAM (shame). Great for 4/4 kicks/percussion however - or if you modulate the 'time' w/ CV you can get more complex rhythms, however extremely hard to work with to get in-time with the rest of the setup (if that's indeed an issue/goal for your system). More complex systems with more CV control/switches allows greater possibilities of utilizing the DFAM as a full on drum voice, but takes some sophisticated patching/sequencing of CV inputs to get unique per step drum sounds.

The second system seems a lot more drum/percussion oriented setup to me given the main sequencing being the Varigate 4 / choice of sound modules. Is the idea to use the system in a live composition context? or just for patching in the studio to get cool sounds?

Based on module choices, I couldn't say whether the systems would work for any given idea, as we don't know the overall goal for use.

What is your reason for going modular in the first place? - just to break the building blocks of normalled synths, or for a specific purpose (ambient wave machine, groove box w/ bass & drums, complex synth voice, etc.) In my personal experience w/ modular, over the years I have drifted towards setting up standalone systems that complete a specific task. I have my main groove box system w/ everything needed for a live improvised set in 2x 104hp (Intellijel 7u performance case), but I also have a second case dedicated strictly to drum voices/sequencing w/ modular control, another case for sequencing/mono bass voice, and another for mixing/fx. It is called eurocrack for a reason!

You can certainly get all of the functionality you need in one case, but you have to know what the goal is, and that will drive your choice of modules over pure aesthetic/price, but for utility as it is needed to make the sounds you want to make with adequate control.

Listened to both of these the other day - two great tracks! Both have amazing atmosphere.

Thoroughly enjoyable! Love the squelchy filter stuff going on here. I was listening at work and had to look over so many times to see what was going on. Love the cat too. :-) Sadly I had to ban them from my basement after one of them peed on the power strip that was running my main mixing board, shorting it out and causing it to start making a very alarming crackling sound.

Thank you!

Hello guys,
I am new to this community and I decided to build my own Eurorack. I am starting with building my case from a Thon rack case (about 100hp and 6U). I already have a Behringer Neutron which I now is not that good but I will use it until a can afford to replace it with better modules.
This is my rack:

I would love to hear your opinion on it and if it's even functional like that.
Side note:
I will first buy the things that are on this rack and then I am planning on removing the Neutron and replacing it with better modules.
This is the final one:

Thank you for all your answers :)

could we please have the any incomplete rows left-justified rather than fully justified?

that should work now.

Whilst I'm at it, could the rows also be padded out so that the tops of all the cases align regardless of the length of the case title

could not get it to work without compromises, e.G. truncated text and fixed heights. That is more limiting than it does good so I leave it for now.

see further edits, above, but that one will have a short delay time due to the number of stages

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 13:50

which BBD? doepfer make a variety iirc...

-- JimHowell1970

the 128

which BBD? doepfer make a variety iirc...

I would set up the simplest possible patch

a vco into a vca into mixer - check that this makes sound (make sure that the volume is up etc)

then patch bbd in between the output of the vca and the mixer

make sure volume is up on correct channel and then play a single note with the vco - ideally very very short - as minimum delay time is 10ms - so make sure you have a noticeable delay time dialled in

make sure level on delay is not 0 - keep increasing this until you can hear the delay or have run out of travel in the knob

make sure that mix is past 12 o'clock - increase this if the previous step

another thing to do is to check the board components for signs of damage - burnt bits, bad smell, sticky residue - post pics (hi-res)

one other thing to note with doepfer modules - I have one that had the power cable on the wrong way (and not one that was just pull it out and switch it as it is connected to multiple boards) which would have been fine with unshrouded headers (which doepfer at least used to use) - but as I had shrouded ones I had to cut the key off the header to get it to fit - make sure that the red-stripe is correctly situated on both ends of the power cable

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 13:49

case - imo poor choice for a starter case - as are all 'beauty cases'

good examples of starter cases are doepfer lc9 or tiptop mantis

why? because they are the best value for money cases out there and have been proven over years of service - they are not so small that they will be filled immediately and they are not so big that they cannot be moved, reasonably easily

beauty cases are great as extensions to larger cases - control skiff, sequencer skiff etc - but most experienced modular synthesists will point you towards a bigger case (at least to start with) so that you can find the modules that you want and the modules that you need to support them and leave space to expand (preferably 20-30%)

saying that you should not have any compatibility issues with modules that are not too deep (check this - especially the doepfer modules - 45mm and 50mm), power looks ok - are there enough power headers? (you can get flying extensions from intellijel if not)

in terms of power you should always leave at least 25-30% headroom (to account for inaccuracies and onrush needs) on all rails - otherwise you will get unexpected results - anything from lights flashing weirdly and then switching off to burning out power supply and/or module components

quite frankly the odessa/hel combination on it's own is too big for this size case - as are to a large extent multiple voices - it's difficult to fit 2 vcos and the support modules for them in such a small case not counting the size of odessa/hel

how are you intending to play this synth? iirc to take full advantage of the polyphony of odessa you really want 4 v/oct signals just for that one module - but no sequencing or midi-> cv converter in the case - iirc there is part of one included in the case, b ut yoou still need to buy a module to use it and iirc it only has 2 sets of v/oct gate outputs - so can only play 2 notes at once

you almost definitely will want way more in the way of vcas - 2 vcas is not really enough for a single mono voice of a vco and filter - especially once you start using vcas for more interesting purposes - modulating modulation and controlling volume not just note shape, compression, cross-fading and auto panning (to name a few uses for them) - with essential supporting modules such as polarizers and offsets which you have neither of

I would advise you to start again with a bigger case and work out what modules you want and what you actually need to support them and get that verified by people here as a workable synth - this will probably work out less expensive in the long run

when you do this it is a good idea to also specify what sort of music you want to make and what your budget is (not only the starter budget, but ongoing monthly/yearly)

and I speak from experience I started with a 72hp 6u case - I ran out of space within 6 months and case number 2 had to be bought, roughly 5 years on from that I have 6 cases with a total of roughly 1500hp - looking back if I'd bought case 2 first I may never have gone past it's 208hp (a mantis)

Hello,

I'm currently planning my first modular system, and I'd love to have some advice. I've included two VCO's – a simple one: Electrosmith 3340 and a more complex one – but still intuitive –: Xaoc Devices Odessa. As I'm very interested in sound sculpting and filtering, I've chosen a multimode filter such as the Joranalogue Filter 8. Then, the basics: envelope generator, LFO's, and VCA's. And a small Intellijel oscilloscope basically to visualise the frequency values as well as a stereo mixer.

LFO: Doepfer A-145-4
VCO: Electrosmith 3340 VCO
VCO: Xaoc Devices Odessa + Xaoc Devices Hel expander
Filter: Joranalogue Audio Design Filter 8
ADSR: Doepfer A-140
VCA: Doepfer A-130-2
Utilities: Intellijel Zeroscope 1U and Intellijel Stereo Mixer 1U

So, my question is:

– I'm planning on getting a Intellijel Designs Palette 62 4U case (https://intellijel.com/shop/cases/4u/4u-palette-eurorack-case/).
Is there any compatibility issue with any of these modules that I should be careful about? How can I check that?

– What should I be careful about in terms of voltage? This is what I got so far: 348 mA +12V / 285 mA -12V / 0 mA +5V

If you have any comments or advice about the overall system it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 11:28

No idea what any of that means to be honest ... I ended up getting a 4MS Row Power and a pair of Synthrotek noise filtering busboards. Wasn't the cheapest solution, but everything's working like a charm now. Now I just need to replace that mixer......

So in my first month or two noodling with modular, there have been some ups and down and a learning curve, but the majority of my modules I've learned how to use effectively.

The exception is my Doepfer BBD. I cannot for the life of me get it to do ... anything, really.

I do have the manual, though I kind of glaze over when trying to read it, it's pretty dry. What I have done is tried the example patches they include at the end of the manual, and every time, the best result I can get it just an audio pass-thru ... no delay, no chorus, no noticeable effect at all, as far as I can tell.

I've resisted thinking there's something wrong with the module, since 99% of the time such thoughts are just due to me misunderstanding something, but at this point I'm beginning to wonder.

If someone has this module and had any similar trouble with it or has some pointers or there is something about it that's easy to misunderstand, please let me know. I got it used and I don't think I can return it, so if I can't get it to do something, it's probably destined to be a paperweight.

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 04:00

I have:

• Doepfer A-141-2 VCADSR (ASDR/LFO) module
• 4MS PEG (Dual Envelope Generator)
  and I also had, but sold off
• Befaco Rampage (Dual Envelope Generator)

I'm fairly new to modular, but so far, I like both in different ways.

So far, I use the Doepfer more so for applying ADSR to audio signals, and it seems fairly versatile with separate CV inputs for A/D/S/R, variable CV triggering levels for each, End of Attack / End of Rise triggers, Inverted output, and a couple other potentially handy options. Be aware that like many Doepfers it is a sort of obnoxiously deep module though, won't fit in a shallow skiff.

The 4MS PEG was frustrating at first (as was the Befaco Rampage) because I expected it to work sort of like an ADSR (or an AD anyway) and was trying to apply it mainly to audio signals. That can work -- sort of -- but not very well. I got the impression it was really intended more to manipulate CV levels as opposed to directly effecting audio signals, and once I started applying it that way, it came into its own a lot more so. It's way less predictable and a lot more finicky than a digital equivalent would be in a DAW, but I guess that's true for pretty much all modular, and now that I've gotten the hang of it I like it quite a bit. It's very versatile and can add a lot of complexity to a patch. The Befaco Rampage was pretty much the same thing, I only had room for one at the time and chose the 4MS because I've generally liked the modules of theirs that I have.

I'm looking into more ADSR options myself, so interesting reading through this thread to get some ideas.

Ahhhhh...you tried to defy the MG Kitty! Living dangerously there...

Hmmmm...OK, let's see...if the build from earlier would take two years, and there's a car driving 60 MPH halfway between Cleveland and Chicago, and it's a Wednesday in October, then my hat is actually orange. Oh, wait...

OK, given that the build was double what it ought to be, let's screw with it some. Gonna play "How low can you go"...

EDIT: OK, I scrunched this somewhat, managed to drop the cost by $700-ish AND added more neat functions:

The top row got changed a lot. But it got even more entertaining. First up, the Bufflide got removed, but this allowed me to add the polyphony adapter for the Xaoc Odessa, which is now the main VCO. This sucker's WAY too complex to explain here; go and have a look at the specs instead. And then, for two more oscillators, I put in the mkii version of Klavis' Twin Waves...very useful devices, as they not only are wavetable VCOs, they also have internal quantization...meaning that you can create single-voice patterns from LFO curves, etc with a bit of patching creativity. I put a replication of the final mixer modules after that so that you can generate a stereo submix of the oscillators to feed to the Olivella stereo SVF, and then this passes to the Beads. So there's still that subtractive aspect there, but now you've got some rather potent digital VCOs to feed it.

Middle row was not spared, either. I put in an Erica Black Modulator v.2 for noise, sample and hold, and an extra LFO. Tides was added for a "slow" modulation source. VCAs, Maths...and then an interesting attenuverter module from ADDAC that can also output sum and difference voltages from thruputted modulation signals. This should allow the modulation aspect to get even MORE complex...while still saving a bit of $$ there. Then I put in the current "do it all" modulator, Intellijel's Quadrax and its Qx expander to allow lots of complex internal and keyed external behavior. And there's still two ADSRs there, courtesy of Doepfer's A-140-2.

Bottom row antics saw me change to an Erica two-voice MIDI interface and the swap of a Temps Utile for the Pam's. Then there's six channels of clock manipulation via a Shakmat Time Wizard. Pulse delays next, then the Boolean logic, and THEN the diode OR for pulse combination. The rest of the row is otherwise unchanged.

It's not the simplest thing to try and "down-budget" from a previous build, but it CAN be done. As mentioned, this shaves about $700 US from the cost that I can see here. But it's approaching a zone where I wouldn't want to cheap it down further, because beyond this point you're likely to see compromises in functionality that would make this less of a teaching/lab tool and more like a personal instrument, and this probably shouldn't go in that direction.

EDITED Jun 14th 2021, 04:41

Super rad! Nicely done. 👍