User Posts

you'll get better help with a link to the actual public rack & not just a shitty jpg - which fails to provide click through and mouse over infomatics

copy and paste the url into your post

there are mic-pre modules that supply phantom power - ES Little Miley and Befaco Instrument Interface 4(?) for example

with the tex-mix you can use the 2 mono sends as a stereo send to a single stereo effect (or effect chain) which is how it's set up on the stereo channels - this allows for a further stereo channel input to the mixer on the spare return - although you only get a volume control and not panning or mutes - nor access to the direct outs if you are using those

both the doepfer ones do this - it's kind of the definition of a sequential switch

a-151 is 4hp and has 4->1 or 1->4 switching capaabilities

the other a-152(?) is much bigger and has 8->1/1->8 and a few other tricks up it's sleeve

@Lugia gave a great example of what you could do with the space freed up by the removal of the strega, also I completely agree about the size of the other modules (especially starlab) in this size build... just remember it's all just food for thought - going slowly and deciding what you really want (and what you actually need) in your case(s) over time is a very personal thing... but generally too many big modules (& needlessly racked semis) tend to push out other modules that are more useful

test reply - seems to be working again now - thanks!

EDITED Aug 18th 2022, 16:39

I'd leave the Strega in it's case and use the space for more utilities...

dump the b-company vca - and get a decent quad cascading vca from a reputable company - veils if you can find one, an intellijel or a happy Nerding 3*vca - you will need more vcas so it's a better investment (especially the veils!!)

as @benscott suggested get a bigger case - you will need it much sooner than you hope/expect/think - tiptop mantis is by far the best combination of hp/cost/decent power/manufacturer reputation - the power in the mantis is way way better than the uZeus!!! plus you will avoid the waste of space that is a rack wart (power supply module)

I wouldn't put a compressor in a build this size - and probably wouldn't go with a dual adsr - doesn't the gm have cv and envelope out - I might add a voltage controlled envelope generator of some sort though

Only listened to the last track - as it was the one that came up first on the player - good stuff!!

Was busy with other things today - I'll try and listen to the rest tomorrow!

Thank’s for the advice, let’s go for the mantis.
At the start I wanted to creat a finished case, but yes your are right.
Let’s start with a bigger case, and grow slowly.

Some advice for some modules to start?

-- supernatur

a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play, a way to listen... maybe a few utility modules to help join everything together nicely...

a sound source - plaits is a common recommendation - there may be some available - otherwise any basic analog vco will be fine - doepfer or the like

a sound modifier - a low pass filter is a good place to start... I particularly like the SEM - or possibly a delay or multi-fx if you get plaits (as it has a built in filter) - so maybe an fx aid (I'd go pro though for this tbh! - so you can see what program you are on easily)

a modulation source - personally I'd get a maths - and download the 'maths illustrated supplement' work through that and try to understand what it's doing, how it's doing it and why, but a lot of people find that overwhelming (complex is just lots of simple!!!) - otherwise something like batumi is good - 4 lfos at once, different waveforms etc etc

a way to play - a sequencer, a midi->cv module etc etc etc

if a sequencer - get the one you like the workflow of best - don't be afraid to get a multi-channel ne especially if you intend to expand to multiple voices in the future - as then you will only need to learn one sequencer and avoid another learning curve in the future - I like the Erica Black Sequencer, but this is very personal... do your research - you will get lots of recommendations ie everyone has a different favourite...

a way to listen - really depends on what else you have and whether you think you need stereo from day 1 - plaits is dual mono, SEM filter is mono, fx aid is stereo... I'd just get a decent quad cascading vca (veils if you can find one) and use that as a mono or stereo output... at least for now...

I'm pretty sure you can use the es8 as a standalone ADAT expander - don't use the usb and connect the ADAT I/O to the ADAT I?O of your Motu... the extra channels will show up as part of the Motu in your DAW

check the manual - it's easily accessible on the ES site!

plus 62 hp for Intellijel-format tiles...we'll call those 31 hp, as most tiles are sort of "half a module". 93 + 93 = 186 hp, with me being charitable. But as far as JUST the 3U modules, you've only got 124 hp.
-- Lugia

very charitable, I'd call them 1/3rd of a module - so 20ish hp

Considering that I have Rings, Ears (not really useful but..), Plaits and 4ms Listen I/O with Doepfer 1-190-3, and I want
to order Veils and Maths.. What should I put next to get that modulated, long ambiances. Or ambient noises, foggy chords in the atmosphere of Silent Hill, Twin Peaks etc. ?

veils and maths - check - don't slouch on the veils - pre-order from somewhere that is still offering them!! they will be gone before you know it, once the last batch appears

next I'd go for a decent sequencer and a matrix mixer...

for a sequencer I'd go for an Erica black over Rene - rings will take one channel and if you want to sequence chords on plaits, then you'll use another 2 - this will leave one over for the future - always a good plan - and with the black sequencer you can tie notes and you get another track on each channel for modulation as well as the pitch and gate...

matrix mixers are incredibly useful for taking copies of modulation sources and deriving more related complex modulations from them, amongst other things...

add extra rows for the semis...

Yeah, there was an issue with the rack, it wasn't showing up in the forum post how it was configured so I deleted it and now...well...I can't even delete this forum thread, sorry.
-- rayvon05

you can edit and replace the link with the correct one though!!!

NB it has to be public - so we can open it etc

EDITED Aug 4th 2022, 17:04

the link doesn't work... please fix it!!!

Glaring omissions:

1. filter - plaits is a voice module - and has a built in filter - as part of the built in low pass gate - I wouldn't worry too much about this for now - if you're going to get a plaits though hurry up - last batch may already be out there - and if you're getting plaits I'd go for veils over the intellijel quad - it's a little smaller and has more features... but again - good luck in getting one...

2. a mixer would be a very good addition... vcas are extremely useful for both audio and modulation... both of the moons have them built in so don't 'need' to go through another vca... I'd add an inexpensive mixer - get one that's dc-coupled and when you come to upgrade your end of chain mixer, it it can be used for other things...

why are effects modules expensive? they're not necessarily - you're obviously looking at expensive ones... but a lot of the 'expensive' ones take a long time to develop, not just in terms of hardware, but also software - if you want cheap effects then you could also look at guitar pedals and pedal interfaces (AISynthesizers makes a DIY one that's pretty inexpensive)

I agree with Lugia about a bigger case - mantis is imo, one of the best starter cases there is especially because of the combination of decent power/manufacturer reputation/hp/cost

take a look at my signature - it's a simple guide to getting the most versatility out of your modular for the least cash - and scales well from the smallest to the biggest systems...

If you can get an original plaits, I would as they will not be available for very much longer due to Mutable shutting up shop... It looks like last batches (of beads, plaits, ripples and) are still to go out - they've not officially been discontinued... also Emilie gets paid - unlike the b-company version...

also I'd go with the bear matrix mixer... slightly better ergonomics (important when trying to get to tiny trimmers)... 4 output channels (not 3 and a sum)... & the bi-/uni-polar switches (so you can subtract as well as add)...

personally

I'd want more utilities - more mixing - specifically a matrix mixer - I think they're incredibly useful... especially for deriving more complex related modulation from the modulation you have... but you won't fit that in until you realise you need another case... (note I'm not telling you to get a another/bigger case)

it's also a bit cramped for me - too many micro modules...

otherwise reasonably balanced - kinks is excellent!!! as is 3*mia and a good call on a real rings imo...

if you'd gone for a real plaits - you could have taken out the pico dsp & rand, the mult, the headphone amp and put in a alm hpo, a matrix mixer and an fx aid... no loss of functionality, but added versatility - use stackcables or headphone splitters for mults etc

I could say the same to you...

let's shut the fuck up hey?

and everyone with any sense at all knows that you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time...

Thanks,
Can you talk me through ‘seeing your signature’ please :)

-- clivevass

it's the smaller text in the box at the bottom of the post, directly below this line

EDITED Jul 28th 2022, 13:03

there are plenty of other modules that'll do those things though aren't there... choose the module that's right for you... positivity, y'know...

Hello Jim, Yes this rack is mostly sound sources and sound modifiers...I have been using the Matriarch envelopes to modulate. It also has attenuators and LFO...so what would you recommend for this rack? I was considering the ZADAR.

I'd probably want at least a decent function generator (I like maths - good learning material available - videos and the 'maths illustrated supplement' - good jumping off points) and a quad envelope generator...

zadar is a great envelope generator - extremely powerful, especially with the nin expander... you might also consider the poti expander for batumi...

I'd also strongly consider a matrix mixer to allow you to mix copies of modulation sources to derive more related (and even more complex) modulation sources...

modulation is one of the key advantages of modular over other synthesisers, make good use of it.... another is utilities - there are a wide variety to choose from, they are incredibly useful for expanding patching both control voltage and audio... see my signature for some hints...

I also have been patching all of my synths (Moog Mother 32 (3) and 2 Dfams and Subharmonicon) into a Mackie 16 channel mixer. I can record each synth separately or I can record a live performance. I use a Focusrite 18i20 and an Octopre for interfaces. I put in the 4ms Mixers in the rack for live playing. I guess that would be my "sub mix?"

do you take your Mackie for live performances?

by sub-mixer I really mean downstream of end of channel - combine different sound sources for filtering and processing, combine differently processed parts for further filtering/processing etc etc etc

BTW, I built custom racks for stacking my 5 Moog units before I got into expanding. I did not want to stack the Subharmonicon on the top so I put it in the 104 case. The Moogs sit next to this rack.

then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to either build an extension or a 6 tier rack then to house the semi rack, or to build a 6u rack to extend the case you have to find room for the support modules that imo your modular desperately needs

As far as sequencing, I use the Mother 32's and I also have a Keystep 37. Thank you for your time.
-- Mooger59

those and the bloom should cover everything - but don't the Moog semis use different scaling? ie not 1v/oct - if so I'd consider something that can convert the Moog sequencer output - iirc disting has an algorithm for this...

1. yes good plan - also take a look at the happy needing 3*MIA
2. clouds is good...
3. both stereo mixing and more vcas - grab a veils if you can... also seriously consider a matrix mixer - leverage your modulation into more interesting territories
4. auto-panning (can be done easily with vcas, though), delays - use 2 different mono delays 1 for left 1 for right (the auto pan them with vcas), different reverbs used subtly on each side to give weird spatial presence

The biggest problem I have right now is, I think, lack of mixing or stereo field. I quickly run out of utility trying to mix right and left channels separately.

then address point 3 first

But I'm not sure what problem I'll have next.

that's half the fun discovery of issue and then work out how to solve the issue...

link to rack, cos jpgs are shit

it looks like you could do with improving modulation and utilities - possibly the most interesting modules and in lots of ways much more important than sound sources or effects...

see my signature for a rough guide on how to get the most versatility from your rack for the least cash...

EDITED Jul 28th 2022, 00:01

I'm sure they're crying...

you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, or a module by it's panel - who know's it might be the best sounding formant filter ever... and you rejected it purely on looks... when it comes to music you should rely on your ears, not your eyes...

go on then, mate, you try it...

therefore plenty of modules that have weird layouts, look at the Tokyo tape Music Centre - quite a few of their modules are 14hp or so with a few jacks and knobs at the top ad the rest blank...

I really think the only people who wouldn't buy this module, specifically because of the layout, are those who are so obsessed with functional density that it borders on a form of self-hatred...

do you mean this...

seems really light on modulation and utilities... more envelopes ad routing options desperately needed!

mixing doesn't seem very well thought out - basically vcas and end of chain... no sub-mixing...

racking the Moog is an expensive way to house/power it - put it back in it's case!

how are you sequencing?

EDITED Jul 27th 2022, 05:04

I just asked on their forum! Waiting on a reply.
-- soggybag

I haven’t done any scientific experiments only back of napkin calculations.

I bet if you ask Intellijel they have a number. I’m sure they know the current consumption. Why not add it to this database?
-- soggybag

as modular grid is 100% user sourced info: I bet if YOU asked initellijel they might tell YOU and then YOU could update the entry...

EDITED Jul 26th 2022, 16:47

Yeah the Keith M - but it has ”flat” keys so to speak

looks like there's a $200 little red thing... seems to be the cheapest MPE controller out at the moment (unless it's been discontinued - says out of stock on site)

Yes the Haken takes both Midi and Usb I think.

I’m not shure how the Midi signals from the MK88 will show up to be mapped. The MK88 is on it’s way, I’ll know shortly. The midi settings on it seems very verstile. With one or two foot pedals you would get very many control possibilities. My expectations are high - we’ll se 🤗
-- CAJJO

good luck with that... have fun exploring your new keyboard and the taken module... I look forward to seeing a video posted!!!

sorry, meant MPE...

iirc you should be able to go straight into the Haken module with midi, no??

I was just searching for MPE controllers, wasn't there a tiny one a few years back? single touch controller, not keys... the small Keith McMillan one looks pretty cool for 200 bucks...

Thx Jim ! There is the service manual !

NP - 30 seconds with google!!!

Mmm I’m getting the Midi in expansion for Es9, and it should be able to recieve Midi, send it to the DAW, which can send CV out through ES9 ? But Maybe there’s latency then ?

Still not convinced, you can configure the midi to be midi through though - there's an easy way to find out though - create a post in the Expert Sleepers sub-forum on modwiggler - Os responds pretty quickly!

I'd expect quite a bit of latency if it does work! I think you'd be much better off with the fh-2 as it is designed for what you want it to do!

The Haken Continium is out of my reach, and not really a keyboard.
-- CAJJO

no kidding - eyewateringly expensive... but really cool - my daughter and I played with one a few years ago in a dealer - and then ran away once we saw the price tag!!!

some of the smaller ME keyboards are 'reasonably' priced though...

maybe this: https://picclick.co.uk/Elka-mk-88-Service-Manual-Schematic-Diagrams-schaltplan-schema-144312053111.html

reading the manual for the es9 - I don't think you can use it as a midi to cv module, midi only appears to be used for controlling the internal mixer etc - I think you'd want the fh-2 to do what you want!

@JimHowell1970
I agree the price of the Mantis is a bit special. It's hard to find a case with a competing price and specs. I picked the 7U because the Mantis was out of stock everywhere when I was ordering. For me, even the thought of ever filling a Mantis was a far away dream :-D I looked at DIY back then, but was a bit overwhelmed.

Availability of everything from small manufacturers with global markets is inevitably patchy... patience is a good thing to have (in any niche market!) DIY can be a bit overwhelming, as with any complex endeavour... but it's always good to remember that 99 times out of a hundred, complex is generally just lots of simple bundled up together... and most quoted statistics on the internet are bullshit! hehehe

Glad we're both having fun with our setups.

yeah... it's the only real important thing...

And Lugia is right, your signature (and your ever interesting posts) are a bottomless repository of wisdom.
-- Arrandan

thanks... always appreciated!!!

have you tried timing how long it takes to fail a few times? this should give you a decent idea...

read a lot of newbie posts - there are tons here... it'd probably have been a good idea to have done that before actually buying anything - you will run out of space before you know it with such a small case

I'd look at mixing and modulation, at least as important as anything else you could possibly add - probably an fx aid would work well - has a lot possibilities - if you get the xl version you get cv-able bit crushing on all algorithms

see my signature for hints on how to get the most versatility for the least cash...

@Arrandan

I was just quoting you on the use of "real"...

I see so many people complaining about the price of cases - and then they end up buying ones with 1u rows and often unnecessary built in features - when for the price of a single 4u case they could have almost bought a mantis or for the price of a 7u they could have bought 2 mantises... just so they can get 1u rows, that aren't really anything special... and for the sole purpose of putting utilities in the 1u rows so they can cram more "real" (to borrow your use) modules in the 3u... maybe it's just that I started before intellijel released the 1u row - I think pulp logic had theirs going, or maybe not...

to me there's nothing in 1u compelling enough for me to have one...

if you can find one the intellijel noise tools always seemed one of the better options, though

anyway I'm glad you like your 1u row and find it useful for routing cables

have fun, that's the important thing!

there might be a lot going on on the pcb... so maybe it's a trade-off between depth and width and the developer had a large but shallow case... or maybe they hate shitty ergonomics...

Maths is a great choice... see my comment above, for why...

ADSRs are useful if you are using a keyboard... they are what keyboard synthesisers tend to use... but with modular they are comparatively rare... AD and AR are more commonly used... but there's nothing wrong with ADSR... I'm not sure I'd commit 14hp to one, though... especially as it doesn't have cv addressable stages...

Zadar is really, really useful, but I don't think I'd want it as a 1st envelope generator...

mantis is imo infinitely better than rackbrute... and less ugly, but that's just personal opinion...

mantis is a little bit bigger (20hp/row), has no rack wart, has a super clean power supply (up to video rates - which is low MHz, not just KHz needed for audio), more power on the 12v rail (which is where you need the most)... and because of the size almost always works out cheaper per hp...

nb the 12v power is zoned so you have to pay a bit of attention plugging modules in (each zone is 1A, so no more than 750mA draw plugged in to each zone)

it might be a good idea if you watched your way through at least the first post or so of this thread: https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106396

I personally like tesseract tex-mix... it's expandable and inexpensive... but do your research... some people claim there's a lot of bleed and a high noise floor, nothing I've particularly noticed though...

maths is a fantastic module - but it only really comes into it's own when you dig really deep into it...

bigger rack warts - you have used the tiptop uZeus in your rack - if you are using a RackBrute you should be using the Arturia power supply modules (rack warts - they steal racks space and are ugly) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/arturia-rackbrute-6u-3u-power

as for a case being able to power whatever you put in there - hahahahaha - no.

you need to add up per power supply the draw for each rail from the modules and compare it to what the manufacturer states is the maximum draw for each rail - leave at least 25-30% headroom... if not there's always a chance your power supply either shuts itself off, a module fails to power on or, possibly, the power supply decides to die on you...

I'm having problems posting replies to threads - started last night/early this morning (GMT)...

getting the "reCAPTCHA error: incorrect-captcha-sol. Just try again!" repeatedly

using firefox on macOS bigSur

works fine on safari - but I hate safari!!!

So, I bought the Veils module, along with the A-138D and A-183-3.

good call...

I am holding off on the ADDAC modules (I am considering both) until I can find them at a better price/availability. They were my lowest priority in this build anyway.

where are you looking for addac modules? I think the best way unless you are buying DIY modules, is buying direct from addax themselves - I've never seen that much stock of there's in dealers...

I found a good price on the Doepfer A-111-5 while looking around, so I picked up one of those up for a bit of fun :)

have fun...

Now I need a 9u case... :D
-- cj18

yes and keep the unused cases for when you need them in the future...

With regard to DAWs, it looks like Bitwig might be the best option (that I currently own). Otherwise I might need to buy something like Silent Way for use in VCV. I also have Cherry Audio's Voltage Modular and Softube's Modular - maybe they work? I'd have to take a look.
-- cj18

you don't need silent way for vcv rack - cv is native - just connect to appropriate audio interface...

@Arrandan... when you build your own cases the rails & inserts are about the most expensive thing... cost of 1u rails = cost of 3u rails... extra case materials & power can be close to 0...

as for the quadratt - I'd rather have a happy nerding 3*mia or mutable shades... or even a triplatt!!! anyday... both 6hp... that's 5-6% of the row - quadratt is 28hp... that's 26% of the row... and that's the most compelling 1u module in lots of ways!!!

& utilities are the "real" modules just as much as vcos and lfos and filters!!!!

exactly - I started about 6 years ago with a tiny 6u/72hp case... within about 6 months there was only 12hp left... and wanted a maths - enter the mantis... I now have 8 cases in total... iirc about 1800hp+ of rack space - not all filled!!! but it probably will be eventually... GAS ebbs and flows over time... usually in relation to disposable income!!!

not convinced about 1u though - it saves 3.5" in vertical height, but can only hold at most a 3rd of the functionality and in terms of build cost (most of my cases are DIY) costs the same 3u...

for portability I prefer 6u cases - I reckon I could easily carry 18u/104hp at a time - 1 case in each hand and one on my back... but for diy I prefer 9u... less build time/cost...

"endgame" hahahaha there is no such thing - not only does no plan survive contact with the enemy (in this case yourself) - if/when you get to that state, the solution is another case!!

good luck and have fun!!!

now with link...

you should update to use the even bigger Arturia rack warts... instead of the smaller uZeus rack warts...

is there enough modulation? probably for now, especially if you are leveraging the o&c & pams with the matrix mixer to get more complex modulation... but for the future I'd look at adding at least one more modulation source - my choices would be at least 1 if not more of zadar, batumi, maths... maths in particular if you want to learn more about modular synthesis (as opposed to just connecting modules together - synthesis with modules) - as it has a lot of learning videos & imo even better the 'maths illustrated supplement' - best when thought deeply about - why, what, how - and used as a jumping off point for experimentation instead of just a simple patch reference, though!!!

as for overlap between pams and o&c - not really you need gates and envelopes and lfos - these at least for now cover this reasonably well - & "redundancy" is not a bad thing in modular anyway in lots of cases - modulation and utilities especially!

how are you doing end of chain mixing? externally? otherwise might be an idea to look at this...

utilities - my favourite subject... it's hard to say what you will want or need - I would suggest spending some time looking at all the different types and deeply thinking about them... I usually find logic, sequential switches, sample and hold, atttenuation/attenuversion, offsets, more mixers and more vcas are incredibly useful though...

re effects: I'd look at the fx aid pro instead of the dsp2...

& read through a load of other recent newbie/advice posts - they're pretty much all applicable!!!

to quote @Lugia from another thread!

In fact, some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile, below.

EDITED Jul 23rd 2022, 16:32