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what are you using for the clock?
are you talking about t2, or t1 &t3? if t2 it sounds like maybe a dodgy module, if t1 and/or t3, then maybe the gate output setting have been changed - see manual ...

I think you have to refresh something to get the thumbnail/jpg to update...

I've always built my tex-mix modules - very easy builds with only panel furniture and headers to add - all smd pre-soldered...

if when you expand - remember to tell Mangu how many modules you have - he'll send you the right ribbon cable for connecting them at the back!

going forward things to look at (ie to add if it was me) would be something like the happy nerding 3*mia (or tiptop miso or mutable shades) and something like mutable kinks (clones are available I believe) or wmd/ssf toolbox (may be unobtanium - may be replaced by a similar wmd module in the future) and maybe a small lfo, if it'll fit...

have fun!!!

@JimHowell1970 Thank you much! Would the Mixology do the trick on the mixing/panning? I've gotten to use one a while back and liked it quite a bit. seemed very straight forward. And the Black Output instead of the XOH?

do you really need an output module??? what are you intending to use it for?

I think mixology is kind of large for what it does - if it had a headphone out then maybe, but m'eh - do you need cv panning??? it's pretty easy to patch when you do but takes a couple of vca channels...

personally I really like the tesseract tex-mix - it's expandable so you can add 4 mono or 4 stereo channels at a time - has 2 sends (mono) and 2 stereo returns (that can be used as a stereo send/return) and a headphone output... it might have a slightly higher noise floor and a tiny bit of bleed, but to be honest I don't really notice - there might be a bit of bleed on the sends when the channel is muted, but considering the price (really quite inexpensive) I really don't care... vcas on all the mono channels, manual pan on all the channels - main mix and cue mix... also has (iirc pre-fader) direct output expanders available... I go straight from the main modular level outputs into a cheap 10+ year old Yamaha mixer and from there into my main monitors - works great...

4mono channels, 4stereo channels and a master section will take up 34hp - but will probably cost less than 200 of whatever major currency you use - and you can do autopanning if needs be with the vcas and a lfo (or envelope) and inversion and offset and you get a headphone output included

btw - complaints from people about bleed may be because they are used to pristine DAW mixers - idk, but @Lugia and I had a big discussion about this in a previous thread - neither of us could care less about a bit of bleed - most 'classic' albums from the 60s through the 90s and probably into the 2000s have bleed all over them - definitely anywhere there's a microphone used - in some cases the bleed is a feature (planes flying overhead, cars parking outside, dogs barking etc etc) - adds character, if you know what I mean

I don't want to copy the sound. But he is very creative with those modules and it's interesting for me. I prefer a more contribution comment. Thank you anyway.
-- FidlB

to some extent trying to copy someone else's sound can be a valuable part of the learning process... just as playing other people's music can be too!

btw saw your post on modwiggler - no "hate" here... but I do "hate" the hyperbolic use of the word "hate"!!! hehehe

Ok, great! The A-183-3 fits into the space that I have available, which is a good sign. My rack now looks like this:

nb it looks like that works to me but I have no experience of it - 4 * gain from line level should work ok, you might want to do some further research - please report back...

I have to say, it feels a lot better than it did before. I better understand the purpose of each modules in there now.

good that's an important step...

In my searching, I also came across the ADDAC 200PI. How does that compare to the Doepfer A-138D? I am guessing that the 138D is the better option, with the attenuation and amp, versus simply having two loops available.

you also get crossfading with the a-138d
the 200pi will just do a basic modular to instrument (pedal) level and back
so it's a toss-up - crossfading and gain control vs 2 channels and external gain control (if needed) either from pedals or in rack

As for DAWs, I primarily use either Reaper or Studio One, but also have the light versions of Ableton and Bitwig.
-- cj18

ok bitwig handles cv natively I think, not so sure about the others - I know the full on studio version of Ableton does, but is expensive - which is why I got Logic instead (mostly just use it as a tape recorder and mixdown, but also wanted video in DAW for scoring to picture) - otherwise there are plugins - including vcv rack, that will work with the cv outs of your audio interface

It still needs some work on the mixing tbh...

plaits is dual mono (you could use the dtm to mix these before the filter)
wasp is mono
disting ex can be used as a sound source - as either (depending on what you are using it for) mono, dual mono or stereo
the 3 effects you have - beads, fx aid & magneto are all stereo (all can do mono to stereo)
the output is stereo

nb most vcos are mono

so you could do with a panning mixer (vc or not) and a stereo in/stereo out mixer... I know XOH has 2 stereo channels in, but I'm not convinced that's enough - wouldn't be for me

also you probably don't need a buffered mult... mostly needed for copying pitch information - but bloom has 2 outs - and you only have a single vco...

Perhaps a Doepfer A-138s as a stereo input for soft synths? They are a good price at the moment.

no, it's not an amplifier... possibly this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-183-3

EDIT: actually, it appears that I'd need an Expert Sleepers module. Is that correct? I can send cv from my Presonus Q2626, but it seems that I'd need as ES module to receive it?

no you don't need a ES module to receive it... check the voltage range though! you might want to amplify...

which DAW are you using?

Thanks for the info, Jim.

I am going to buy the Doepfer A-138d, but wonder if I should buy the Addac 301B in addition. I get the sense that they will both be useful. Thoughts?

yes the a-138d for effects pedal interface, the addac 301b for expression pedal interface (which will allow you to control the modular with your foot!)

I like the wet/dry dial on the ALM SBG, but the 1/4 jack just speak to me a bit more :)

Aside from that, the Veils module looks like a winner. I have a software version of it somewhere, but the physical one still seems worthwhile. I'd always planned to pick up the set of Mutable modules, when finances permitted.

good luck and hurry up - new ones are getting more and more difficult to find!!!

I should be able to run my soft synths from my AI into the A-138d in my modular setup, shouldn't I? If not, what is the best route, as I have yet to try connecting them.

maybe - but a lot of soft synths really want stereo inputs - depending on your audio interface... spare channels etc etc

veils will amplify up to 4 channels - but then you don't get to use it as a vca - consider a dedicated stereo (or more) audio input or amplifier if you are doing this a lot

I actually have the A-119, so it is good to hear that it is a worthwhile module! I am thinking that the A-119 as my guitar input and the A-138d for my pedals should be compliamentary. And I am going to try out that pedal. For $40 it is worth a shot!

this is what I have (plus a strymon aa.1) and they are definitely complimentary

the pedal @Lugia mentioned is great for plugging into the addac 301b though, as it's an expression pedals - I use old roland/boss ones - as I had them lying around

If/when I get around to putting more I/O modules into my setup (as it grows), I'll remember your advice on having them separate. I was attracted to having them all in one module for space/efficiency, but will now consider just an output.
-- cj18

this kind of also applies to all things in modular - better to have a single module do a single thing as much as possible!!

To quote @JimHowell1970 "Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!! sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

Maybe look at something like Frap Tools 321, SSF Toolbox, CVilization, maybe Ornament & Crime, or DistingEX

-- jb61264

hahaha - or just look at the signature above!!!

all good advice from Nick there

I'd point out that ochd isn't really synchable - which may or may not be an issue for you!

it's ok as a start - but I think you need more modulation sources and utility modules, for balance and variety... see my signature for some hints in that direction!!

re utilities: more mixing - for both modulation and audio + panning for audio would be good (could be handled with more vcas), which you might also find you need... I like matrix mixers for modulation sources - put 4 copies of 4 in and get 4 more related, but different modulation sources out - I'd also consider some basic sub-mixers - possibly something based on the moog cp3 (manhatten analog for example)

I'd consider replacing the Tempi with Pamela's New Workout - better for modulation purposes that tempi.. and smaller learning curve (no pain in the ass button combos) but there is a simple menu structure instead - and it will add some useful things in there - basic logic, pulse width manipulation, different waveforms etc that I'm not sure tempi does

you might also want to look at a simpler filter - they're always handy to have - doepfer make some good inexpensive takes on classic filter topologies - the sem and wasp are particular favourites...

I'd also be tempted to get something like the fx aid pro, or xaoc timisazora instead of the noise engineering effect module - more variety more easily...

6u case is a good starting point - Mantis is a great case!!!

I'd go slowly at first though - get the minimum that you think for a single voice... and don't forget some stackcables...

EDITED Jul 21st 2022, 20:42

The pedal interface won't work very well - as it reduces the volume to instrument level, which is considerably slower than line level... which is what the 804 will pump out... and you'd still need some sort of audio interface to connect to the iPhone (see below)

the other massive advantage with the 804 is that you only need a single dumb cable - which is a 3.5mm trrs (both ends) cable which shouldn't cost that much...

Any usb compliant audio interface will also work, whether in rack or out... although you'll only get stereo recording - and you'd need a usb to lightning converter dongle and the relevant usb cable - I use one of these with my es8, when I can find the dongle!!! the dongle is quite heavy though and it's difficult to get the iPhone to stay still on a tripod!

If you really just want stereo out of modular into an iPhone - I'd think the 804 is the simplest choice - if you want to also be able to use it with a computer, then I'd consider an usb interface with more channels (both in and out) and getting the dongle for the iPhone...

EDITED Jul 21st 2022, 20:26

well that's one of the problems with posting on public forums... you don't get to set preferences for the replies you want, you just get what you're given...

looks like someone on Modwiggler tried to identify the modules better... although it's very difficult with partial and obscured photos..

good netiquette (or whatever it's called these days) suggests not posting the same question on multiple forums, at least until you've exhausted the relevant answers on one...

looks like all of them... hehehehe

copying someone else's modular will not get you where they are - the most important and unique part of the modular is the user...

Beefaco Rampage and Maths share common ancestory... the main advantage of Maths over the Rampage apart from being less cluttered and therefore more ergonomic (which is a very good thing in itself - & don't get me started on the frap tools falistri, for this very reason) though is that there's a lot more documentation available - not only are there a myriad of videos (some of which are very good), but there's also the 'Maths Illustrated Supplement', which has 32 example patches for Maths - great as a basic guide to getting more out of Maths, but even better if you spend the time thinking about the what, why and how of what it's doing and use that as part of building up a modular patching mindset...

As for a mixer... I really like the Tesseract Tex-Mix - it's not perfect, but it's inexpensive and expandable - doesn't have 1/4" outputs (except for the headphone out), but as far as I know very few modular mixers do... if you must have 1/4" outputs, then the befaco output module is decently priced... & if you can wield a soldering iron, both of these are available as DIY kits...

So for the MMG by Make Noise, could it cause this type of issue if you passed an AC signal to the DC input?

-- jb61264

no it's potentially the other way round - using the DC input to add DC to the AC signal...

Great, thanks! I will not bother with the AI for this build, nor worry about adding another VCO. I'll also have a look at some expression pedals.

addac do a dual expression pedal interface...

I do have a couple of 1/4 to 1/8 cables - I use them between my mixer and AI. The thickness of the cables bothers me, as I am more used to thicker cables :D

yes some can be very thin and plasticy - you can get slightly thicker ones too usually a bit more rubbery like standard guitar cables - I prefer these ones

Two quick questions, if you don't mind...

1) when would an AI module be useful?

Input modules - if you are always using inputs and want to free up other amplification channels...

Output modules - if you get digital clipping when using an audio interface and regular attenuators are not doing the trick / if you are going to play live a lot and need balanced outputs / if you need balanced/isolated outputs because there is noise introduced by the mains power

2) can you recommend any interface modules for pedals?

AI Synthesis, Doepfer, addac, alm sbg

Enough force can bend or snap a 3.5mm plug, but 1/4" plugs are far more substantial. And accidents like that DO happen!

especially when the modular lives on the floor - I managed to accidentally kick a stackcable sticking out of a module - bending it into unusability...

FYI, don't go smaller than a Mantis if you've not bought a case yet. I've seen dozens of Rackbrutes, Palettes, et al get jammed out with "sexy" modules, resulting in...well, nothing in quite a few instances because the "utility modules" were totally ignored. The smaller cases (below 2 x 84) are far better suited for what I call "mission specific" builds instead of generalized builds resulting in a full-on modular. Small cases (without some good discipline on the part of the user) also result in potential fails such as teensy controls that have to be adjusted with tweezers because your fingers DO NOT fit. They also tend to be builds in which essential modules get left out; this is particularly awful when someone opts to jump into modular without advice, buys everything, and then wonders why their "modular synthesizer" doesn't work and/or sounds like refried garbage. Basically, it's pretty simple to put together a good basic build just by skimming the forums here, or hanging out on The Site Formerly Known As Gearslutz or The Site Formerly Known As Muff Wiggler and observing the "traffic". But it's EQUALLY easy to spend thousands on a compromised pile of crap, especially when not paying attention to all of that advice.

completely agree with this...

In fact, some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile above.
-- Lugia

I'm going to quote you on that...

I have the same in my Modwiggler signature - and it's inspired at least one other forum member to adopt similar statements in their signature file...

helps to RTFM... which is on the original module and not included on 3rd party panels

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/make-noise-mmg

"The AC coupled Input has an attenuator to adjust signal levels. An un-attenuated DC input is also offered as this was the type of input utilized on the original QMMG. Together these inputs allow for mixing audio signals or combining a control signal with an audio signal to yield asymmetrical behaviors in the circuits that follow."

Which definitively answers the question - yes you can send AC signals through the DC input

Clicking on the link on the product page leads to an error... so module discontinued... good luck finding one!

missing 1/4" outputs is not a big deal - there are plenty of 1/4"->1/8" cables - I generally use these...

as for headphones - only really needed if you intend to use them away from what you regularly plug into - a mixer or an audio interface, as these usually have headphone outputs - alm make a very small headphone module - alm hpo

or get an end of chain mixer with a headphone output included

as for case - buy the mantis, buy as few modules as you think you can... ie a minimum viable synthesizer (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier, a way to play, a way to listen) and a few utilities - a quad cascading vca is a good investment & can be used as a mono output... and get some blind panels (or make them out of cereal boxes) to cover the holes!!! buying a case that you know you will run out of space in is a false economy!!!!

"AC Coupling" often has a filter to remove DC signals...

the Audio Interface module does not replace your computer audio interface(s), it's just a way of amplifying line level to modular level and attenuating modular level to line level - you may or may not need attenuation at all - a lot of audio interfaces and mixers can easily handle modular levels on the way in...

the audio interface wont really help with pedals, either, instrument level is even lower and a different impedance - and you've got the guitar interface already - better to get a veils as it can amplify line level to modular level, especially if you don't need it all the time - as for guitar pedals - get a proper interface for those

I wouldn't worry too much about 1/4"/1/8" there are plenty of cables available that do that... these are mostly what I use for this

as you are a guitarist, I'd also look at some modules to enable you to use your feet to control the modular - expression pedal and foot switch interfaces - addac or doepfer, for instance

I wouldn't suggest another vco - you have 3 already... that's enough for this amount of hp imo... see my signature for some useful advice on how to get the most versatility for the least cash...

EDITED Jul 20th 2022, 13:12

for the first case - as long as your cables are long enough (and they don't need to be that long) then it'll be fine...

a quad cascading vca - I'd buy a veils if you can - is a great idea!

why do you think you want an audio interface module?

it depends, which module are you thinking of?

@Jim, thanks for the ideas! Lots of points you raised, I'll try to respond to the major ones below:
-- The Jolin LPG bank you mentioned is likely a great fit here.
-- "Mixing really needs to be addressed..." Agreed! Working backwards, ES8+6 give me 10 outs to DAW, I don't see myself needing more than that with this setup. Lots of potential ways to manage the up to 10 voices, let's say main options are 4 mono + 3 stereo pairs, or 6 mono + 2 stereo pairs. I have some spare Doepfer A-138N (4-ch narrow mixer) I could slot in, those can cover some mono needs. I'm inclined to get 1 Intellijel Mixup, which seems like a low $ and HP way to up the mix channel count, and a 2nd Mixup (if needed) could later be added and chained to the first. Also, SoundStage is a new module for me, I need some more soak time to get a sense of how I'll likely use it... I'm inclined to run a LOT of my pitched sources through it and treat it like a stereo sound-field out. Net net, my current sense is another 10-16HP devoted to mixing could really meet the needs for this setup.

quite possibly!

-- you mentioned CV mixing. On that end I've got Sum&Diff, SISM, and Morph4. Do you have a more preferred setup for CV mixing / mangling? I did see your suggestion of a matrix mixer, just wondering if there's anything more / less to your preferred CV mix setup?

good start, but I find matrix mixers to be incredibly useful for cv - take copies of n modulation sources and get n different, but related and more complex ones out - I have 2 in my system that's about 1200hp for audio at the moment - they're of the smaller 10hp variety (& diy) personally if I were going to buy again (add on more likely than upgrade) I'd go for either the doepfer (bigger and better ergonomics) and/or the 4ms vcam (cv controllable) and/or one of the nlc offerings (cluster/clump - again better ergonomics and/or cv control)

-- "low priority modules" and remaining space. As of today, I've got 95%+ of the modules above (most being re-racked from earlier cases into the new case). AND there's some fluidity between this setup and my home setup. My home setup has all its major functional needs covered, and some HP to spare, so if I want to pull a few items out of the travel rig (above) and slot them into the home rig, that works fine. BUT I think where we're netting out is I'll probably need to free up 16-26HP in the rig above for LPG and mixing additions. In my next few sessions with the setup, I'll focus on (top) rows 1-3 to check which of those modules I least need in this setup.

yeah I think that's where I'd be looking too... I'd much rather have fewer sound sources and be able to route them more places and effect them more than be sound source heavy... remember you can mult outputs to different filters/effects and the fx aid has pitch and frequency shifters etc so I'd probably throw one of those in too - probably instead of scales - not sure how much use you'd get especially as you seem to have a 'battleship' sequencer with the vector and expander - with pitch already quantized

-- likely next steps: add Jolin LPGs and a little more mixing capability, and get a bunch more soak time with the setup before other changes (if needed).

sounds like a plan...

have fun!

filters - alm dual dagger - dual filter 6hp
-- JimHowell1970

I assume you mean Shakmat's Dual Dagger ;-) Amazing little module, 4 filters to play with !

-- toodee

yes - got the manufacturer wrong... old(ish) age...

reverb, delay, utilities...

bigger case... mantis is good

I'd completely agree on your priorities...

if you keep the 4ms modules you can always leave them in a drawer for a while see if you miss them or not before selling them! then the question is either: what to take out or get new case... my answer to this has always been new case... which is why I have 8 of them!

thumbnail & rack don't match - but as you say you have elements, I guess the rack is correct?

which 2 4ms modules to get rid of? the ensemble & the sampler?

Hi Nick

wow that's a big case... I think I'd have gone for 2*9u instead of 1 big case... which would have left an extra row for expansion!

mixing really needs to be addressed... especially with so many voices

lpgs - take a look at the jolin labs - 8 in 6hp
filters - alm dual dagger - dual filter 6hp
switches - doepfer a151 - 4 way switch in 4hp

what are the low priority modules? which modules are you still to purchase, if any?

have you tried the harmonic oscillator in stages? might be able to replace the verbos - don't know never tried either...

do you really need the data - could you replace it with the korg - or vcv rack when you need a scope?

I count 37 audio rate outputs in the top 2 rows - some could do with sub-mixers by the look of it - maybe 3 or 4 4hp cp3 style ones...

doesn't seem to be much for cv mixing - obviously I'd want a matrix mixer...

I think we need to see how much space there really is for the mixing solution before working on it...

@Lugia

I bought into the hate for in rack percussion
-- xnax

I absolutely hate the use of the word "hate" in this sort of context, it's far too over the top... excessive hyperbole!!! hehehe

& don't get me started on the use of "gatekeeping" and "rules" (mostly on reddit, tbh) in relation to advice given on here and modwiggler...

brilliant rant though!!! and your percussion rack sounds great...

I agree, but I also think it's good to remind people that the extra 10% is going to cost them an extra 90% - just like it will do with modular in general...

EDITED Jul 15th 2022, 23:02

hehehe I knew you knew!!!

maybe "It's XAOC, kickass chaos" would be even better!

Like "It's Bond, James Bond"...

I can't speak for @Lugia, but we often have similar points of view...

the main reason that it's often better to get a standalone drum machine as opposed to a modular one is expense - drum modules and modular drum kit synths etc and sequencing them is always going to be much more expensive, especially when you take into account case space, than a similarly functional standalone drum machine - most of which include both sequencing and drum kit oriented effects and are reasonably easily and cheaply synced to modular and often have way more channels for different drum sounds

this pretty much equally applies to everything related to percussion - with the exception, perhaps, of using more generic modules to generate drum sounds and either sampling them or recording track at a time in a daw or similar, this to some extent covers both modules such as plaits or peaks and rolling your own sounds from fundamental synthesis modules (vco, noise, vcf, etc etc)

take the quad drum for instance - it costs more than a cheap drum machine to start with, it needs to be put in a case, it needs sequencing, it doesn't have any effects, it needs to be fed into to a mixer and it's only 4 voices...

take say erica or wmd drum modules - you really want a few of them (probably at least 3) which adds up in cost very very quickly - and then you hit the same issues as with the quad drum...

take something like the queen of pentacles or blk_noir - mostly the same issues again - except mixing and effects are on board

the only advantages of modular percussion are convenience, "it's in the rack with everything else" and modulation - but you pay a major premium for that, generally many multiples of that for not necessarily that much gain...

saying that I have an in rack drum synthesizer (FSS Portland, which I DIYed), Peaks (which I often use for kick and snare), plaits (which I sometimes use for hats or other percussion), a general cv, a few lpgs and marbles, erica black sequencer and a zularic repetitor (which I often use for drum sequencing) and a befaco cv thing (again that I built) that I will use for sequencing my external midi drum synths - & I'd like (but not so much I'm running out to buy asap) a blck_noir and a crucible...

that's at least a couple of thousand in modules alone + at least a couple of hundred in case space (most of my 8 cases are DIY & under £1/hp) - when in all reality I could do 90%+ of what I use it for with a pretty basic and inexpensive drum machine... and get 90%+ the same results much quicker

at the end of the day it's your money... do what you want with it... find your workflow and make your peace with your money... no one cares, except you... take or leave advice as you see fit... etc etc etc

@Lugia - it's chaos, not kickass, but they might be that too!

EDITED Jul 14th 2022, 21:24

do you want us to critique it for you?

if so please post a link to the public rack (ie the url) - this helps us, help you - as there are mouse over informatics, click through and roughly 10k modules of which most of us only have experience of a few 10s, maybe a couple of hundred, at best

any worthwhile effects rack is very, very close to a full blown modular synth...

a synth is made up of sound sources, sound modifiers, modulation sources and utility modules

an effects rack is made up of an i/o module of some sort (you sound source), sound modifiers, modulation sources and utility modules

but here's the rub... a powerful technique is audio rate modulation - for this you want a sound source - ie a vco - & the i/o is a utility - so effectively they are identical...

do you have an audio interface with at least 4 outputs? you'll want one of those if you don't have one... why do I need 4 outputs? I hear you say... because you need master outputs to hear the mix and 2 to use as sends to the rack... but I can use headphones to monitor! I hear you say - hmm, no the headphones mirror the master outs (1&2) - so unless you want to be that blind deaf and dumb kid - get at least 4 outputs!

if you want to do things like tempo syncing - you'll either want more outputs than that or a midi interface (& potentially a midi-cv module), personally I use audio as much as possible...

If you don't already have an audio interface, there are a few in eurorack (expert sleepers es8 or 9 and there's a new one on it's way from befaco)

if you already have a suitable audio interface then you'll need to boost the audio levels to modular levels - because modular operates at a much higher level (peak to peak voltage) - so you'll probably need an audio input module - or at least a module that can amplify with a decent amount of gain +20dB is good!

plugging the audio from the modular back directly into your audio interface may or may not clip, depends on the audio interface, or might want balanced inputs - so you might need either attenuators or an output module...

there are some combined i/o modules

so that's your sound source taken care of...

I'll assume you want to process stereo tracks from the DAW...

there are thousands of eurorack effects modules - so it really depends on what sort of processing you want to do - but take note a lot are mono - so that may rule them out, unless you want to buy multiples of the same module, or a LRSMSMLR module (which will take your stereo signal and turn it into Mid and Side channels - these can the be processed by mono effects and then it will recombine them back into a stereo signal) - furthermore a lot of people using DAWs want to get some 'analog goodness' into their workflow... most of these modules are mono!!! most of the 'interesting' stereo effects are digital... but don't let that put you off...

some 'interesting' effects modules that you might want to look at (in no particular order) are arbhar, clouds, beads, mimeophon, morphagene, erbe-verb, bunker archeology, magneto, starlab, rings, doepfer filters, fixed filter banks, dual looping delay, spectral multiband resonator, fsu, plague bearer - it really depends on what you are trying to do - which you didn't specify...

the real advantage of modular effects, is the level of cv modulation that you can achieve, using a combination of lfos, envelope generators, function generators, random sources and chaos... so you'll want a decent selection of those - now I hear you say "but I can twiddle knobs and use my hands" - well yes you can but you only have 2 of those - and you'll almost definitely want more, which is where these modulation sources come in very handy - as they replace your hands!!

and don't forget a vco for audio rate modulation!

now for the really important bit... utilities! mix, merge and mangle your signals - both cv and audio & probably in lots of cases not together - which is why you almost definitely need more of these than you can imagine - vcas (a good start is a good quality quad cascading vca - veils perhaps - grab one whilst you can), mixers (sub mixers, matrix mixers, unity mixers, end of channel mixers), mults, attenuators, attenuverters, switches (both manual and sequential), slews etc etc... in general these expand the capabilities of everything else you have exponentially and are comparatively inexpensive (doepfer and ladik are really good brands for these types of modules)

and you might find that a trigger/gate sequencer and a cv sequencer (possibly with multiple channels) are a good idea...

so when I say get a bigger case and go slowly with the module purchases - so you learn what you actually need - as opposed to just the effects modules you really want - you may have an inkling of why

as for a case - I'd recommend a tiptop mantis as a great starting point - it's the best meeting point of hp/cost/good quality power/manufacturer reputation...

now I hope this hasn't put you off, as modular is fantastic, but I'm just giving you an idea of what you are getting yourself into...

if you look into my signature you will see a formula - it is a rough guide to how to build a versatile modular for the least cash...

now go create a public rack (on here) throw a few modules in and post the url - so that we can critique it...

NB there is nothing unique or particularly rare or cool in modular - there are just modules - the most unique thing is you and how you combine them, patch them and play them!

& here's the link to your public rack version - jpgs are shit for us helping you!!!

are these the 11 most popular modules? i don;t know but it looks like 'synthesis with modules' and not modular synthesis to me

I'd go away and do a lot more research before committing any money to this... it's incredibly unbalanced and makes little sense

what is the purpose of the rack, it seems to be audio processing - but there's no input!

how are you providing pitch for plaits?

some food for thought:

1 take a look at my signature - there's a single line guide (the formula) to building a versatile modular synthesizer for the least amount of cash

2 take a look at this thread from modwiggler - https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43964

then spend some time thinking about what you've learnt from those 2 sources

then try again...

EDITED Jul 11th 2022, 01:43

thanks a lot. this is my first experience with synth in general, i'm bass player, i'm a neewbie.
i bought the crave to start in this world and now, a few weeks later i bought any modules to expand it. meanwhile i studied a little the basis of the synth using voltage modular from cherry audio. for now I'm not interested a rack who play without a keyboard.effect like reverbs, delay, chorus etc, for now, I apply them with the daw.
-- monux

if you're a bassist - you might want to look into an instrument input (possibly with envelope/pitch following and gate extraction), expression pedal interfaces (so you can have some control over the modular with your feet, whilst playing bass) & effect pedal interface...

as for filters & waveshapers, I'd see them not so much as effects, but as a fundamental parts of a modular synthesizer, like vcas, vcos, envelope generators and lfos

although all that might be in the (near) future for you...

here's a link to a slighlty old, but still massively applicable and useful learning resource:
https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43964&sid=d750b0736c2737fee8f5381be539a3a2

have fun!!

EDITED Jul 9th 2022, 20:38

@Lugia the roots were way further back...

Tricky Dicky and Reagan/Thatcher were particular low lights!!!

EDITED Jul 9th 2022, 20:10

I'd agree in the main with @Lugia...

and add only get the isolator if you get clipping without it and can't mitigate that with a pad on whatever you are sending it to... you won't do any damage though - I've used an old yamaha mg10 mixer (cost me £100, years ago) and never needed anything to mitigate clipping...

also I'd consider a tiptop mantis case over the rackbrute - a little bit more expensive, but 40hp bigger, better power supply and most importantly no rack wart!! so more space for modules you actually want!

powered with an improved uZeus-derived P/S with ample amps, and it's so reasonably priced.
-- Lugia

it's uZeus studio bus P/S based - not the crappy flying bus board noise monster!!!

well, most people who comment their public racks are seeking advice - so you got it...

use the advice to help you think about where you are going with this...

we have a lot of experience here...

how are you interfacing with your computer? and/or mixing the semi and the rack?

you definitely don't need so many buffered mults - passives will do

no filter?

no waveshaper?

it's a bit pedestrian...

I'd get a better effects module - which can take more modulation and better ergonomics - fx aid xl or bigger!

standard advice: get a bigger rack you'll need it sooner than you think... tiptop mantis is the best bang for buck (hp/price/manufacturer reputation/good power!)

Hello, everyone,

I would like to start a thread dealing with the 62hp Palette from Intellijel.

It's not a good starter case - best reserved for specific things like sequencing - to compliment a proper case

a much better (and by that I mean infinitely better) starter case is a Tiptop Mantis - it's 104hp with 2 rows which means that you will have space to expand (which you will need) - and it's the best by far case for hp/cost/good power/manufacturer reputation - and it is still very portable (unless you are a small child) - and it relieves you from the burden of 1u modules and the mostly superfluous preinstalled functions

The main module in the system should be Morphagene. All other modules should be based on it.

There are no modules based on the Morphagene - perhaps you mean compliment?

The basic idea for my rack is Morphagene as the first sound source. Tides V2 is the second sound source as an oscillator for atmospheric backings or for modulation. The 4 outputs can be modulated with Ochd via the two VCAs. Beads and FX Aid for the effects section and ears as input for external sound sources. Pamela's NEW Workout for clock and modulation

There is not enough space in a 62hp case for multiple voices and the support modules that are needed to provide the infrastructure that is needed to get them to work... please see my signature for a rough guide on how to get the most versatility from a modular synthesizer for the least cash

Have you got the ears yet? - it's a fantastic module, but it's discontinued (like almost all mutable instruments modules) and potentially difficult to get...

Having found the actual rack (so I could insert the link below) I've inferred that you are a guitar player - me too! I'd want a better input module - if I was starting now I would get a sonicsmith converter ev1 - this has the best pitch follower of any module and adds a vco that follows that pitch...

I'd also want i/o for pedals and some ways of controlling the modular with my feet (whilst playing the guitar) so some combination of foot switches and expression pedals - I'd look at addac for this - they do a great module that comes with a breakout box and some foot switches - you just have to add the expression pedals and you are good to go!!

another issue is that the modules are too cramped - once you have plugged in patch cables - at least some of the modules will have knobs that will not be accessible - eurorack is already very small and ignoring ergonomics can lead to completely unplayable synths - this is at least verging on it... especially aroud the fx aid...

not enough mixers imo!!!

how are you intending to provide pitch information to tides? no midi ->cv module, no sequencer... you could use pams, but it will only be a quantized, looped random signal... also remember that you will need to tune tides to your root note...

also I would strongly suggest doing some more research on modular synthesis - the modulation that you are describing is really just shaping notes from the sound sources - vcas are incredibly useful for other things as well - & for basic modulation - modulation -> attenuator/attenuverter -> modulayion input on module is a good way to go - whilst this is perhaps a little bit out of date, it is still a good learning resource - https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43964

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1947169.jpg

Here's the actual link to the rack - jpgs are useless for people trying to help you!!!

What would your setup look like around Morphagene in the 62 hp range or what would you change?

predominantly the case into a more sensible one, replace ears, add features that are useful for giutarists - replace the 1u modules with 3u so they will fit in the mantis

if you absolutely must have 1u - then I would want the noise tools module - all the rest are m'eh at best (can you tell I think 1u is an absolute waste of space?)

I look forward to interesting answers

-- FWGW

I hope it was interesting!

there's a briefcase type travel case for the mantis available if needed which looks really sturdy... can't remember the manufacturer though

I've taken mine on trains, planes and buses with no problem in just the normal carry case - whilst hauling a large bag as well, though!! but I do understand though, I wouldn't like to drop it too far!

I see Thom Yorke/The Smile tour with a mantis - I wonder what they use... possibly a pelican...

I can't imagine having to put my modular away,,, mind you, it's a bit difficult with 8 cases!

EDITED Jul 6th 2022, 12:31

I really appreciate the replies! I've kinda decided that, probably the smartest (not the cheapest) move in the longer run is to get an Intellijel 7U (104 HP) and get at least 2 quadratts and then some. If anybody is selling theirs and is willing to ship to Finland hit me up :)

I don't have any 1u (I think it's incredibly expensive* for what it is in terms of case cost - & I build most of my cases!) but if I did I'd want the intellijel noise tools module

*adding a 1u row to a case costs the same as a 3u row, can only hold 1/3rd the functionality and only saves 3.5" vertically

I'd buy 2 tiptop mantises over a intellijel 7u anyday!!! cheaper and way more usable hp plus arguably much better power!

Good one on the matrix mixer but the only one I've ever considered was the doepfer one, which is unfortunately huge. I've seen some smaller ones, but they usually lack the possibility for cv control, oh well, maybe one day!
-- sulo

the doepfer is incredibly well sized due to ergonomics - I have 2 smaller ones (pusherman and york modular) and they are too small and cramped

you might want to look out for a used rebel technology mix 04 - they are as far as I know discontinued - only 10hp, cv control over everything, but then you need more modules to control it!

EDITED Jul 6th 2022, 10:04

I'm in the peculiar situation where I travelled a lot in the past, but I'm not anymore because I have a fairly young family. And I feel the disappearing money more in my shame about it than in my wallet. Which is good, because it makes me rethink every purchase 17 times so I don't make impulse purchases. It also gives me time to really get to know the new modules before I add even more.

but the money hasn't disappeared - it's embedded in a synthesizer... ok so some has disappeared, but it's still actually worth some cash if you decided to sell it tomorrow you'd get a decent chhunk of it back and the rest you have enjoyed - can't get money back from the memories of the travel you used to spend the money on!!!

Still, I've arrived at the point where space is becoming an issue. I wanted to start small but thanks to Jim's advice, I got an Intellijel 7U. It was a great idea at the time, so thanks again. And now it's nearly full. I usually take it down when my wife needs to use the studio to work from home. But if I should get a second 7U, I'd very much want to install it permanently somewhere, which means rethinking the room... again!

hahaha...

7u 104hp IS small - I have about 1800hp (not all filled) and sacguy77 has a decent sized rack too

screw them to the wall? put a desk in the living room/attic/cellar for the wife to work at?

Another disadvantage is that the simplest things can become obsessive. Take patch cables. I have several varieties, which is OK. But I start fretting about how this one is way too flexible, and that one isn't flexible enough. These are way too long, but those are much too short to really route them well. The fit in this module isn't great, but the others don't really do it better. It's hell because there's incredible choice about everything. You ever looked at screws for your modules? Agh! Really! Who has this as a hobby anyway!?

-- Arrandan

I have no idea how many patch cables (I lost count at 300) or types of them I have...

screws - just get knurlies, they're great

matrix mixers are good - primarily imo for creating more, complex modulation... take copies of 4 modulation sources and mix them together in varying amounts to produce 4 more different, but related modulation sources... I like the doepfer as it id both inexpensive and ergonomic

also sequential switches (and switches in general) can be really handy - again doepfer is great for this

re pams - not going to recommend it as such - just going to note that any "dictation in how to patch" your modular is you and not any particular module - especially given what Pams can do...

For me the cost financially to buy modules and space required for a studio are really the only negatives.
-- sacguy71

and they're not really negatives as such... you'd only spend the money on something else and fill the space with other crap...