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I like his minimalist approach to modular dance music just like how Julia Bondar has that basic focus.

Definitely not Sweetwater! I like Detroit Modular, Patchwerks, Control Voltage, Analogue Haven and Perfect Circuit. Really depends on the sale and inventory as service is good at these places.

And with a bit of re-patching I liberated 3 more Pams Outs that were just shooting a regular clock.

Sweetwater's modular selection is actually fairly slim when compared with dedicated USA shops like Noisebug, Perfect Circuit, et al. They're good for those situations when you need some basic module(s) NOW, though.

@XODES thanks for the clarification above. I did not arrive at that same understanding by reviewing the info & videos available for PV44, so your added text helps. In particular, I had been left wondering how the panel controls relate to one another and to various possible input / output signals.

Might I suggest you add to your manual / videos:
-- a panel diagram labeling the controls and discussing their normal interactions
-- a few patch examples clearly illustrating a few of the main use cases, the required patching and settings
-- a basic "intro" video showing the 2 points above. The existing videos were too "busy" for me to make out the unit's basic functions.

I believe that added text / video would make the unit pretty clear to most.

I do think if I had PV44 in my rack I would learn it quickly.

Again, thanks for your input above, I'll keep PV44 in mind for the future!

that's always a good lesson to learn: always ask can I do this with what I already have? before even looking at other modules

Then realised....

I have 'Pams'

!

there's a list of eurorack shops world wide in the stickies of the eurorack forum on modwiggler.com

it's not 100% complete, but it's pretty good

You might want something to do mixing.

Cool! Drone can come into this setup later. Good point about the quantizer, I have the Intellijel Scales in mind. Any utilities I am forgetting here?

Okay. You'll have to think carefully about a drone voice, and if you want it to be tonal, Mimetic will need a quantizer. I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with what you have so far.

Absolutely! And to clarify this a bit more, I don't need to play them simultaneously. I want to learn Modular Synth and to some weird, cool sounding stuff with it as a new way for creative expression. And if I have something where I think a hard riff would fit, I would let the rack do its thing and play a over it.

But to come back to what I want soundwise from a rack I think harder techno-ish beats with filled with some madness, weird accents or sometimes unpredictable patterns. Again, thats why I like the NE soundscape and my music background is more in the harder genres of rock. But then again, I don't want to follow a pattern or genre but want to explore my own creativity and what I can come up with. This first rack will be the starting point, there are for sure changes along the journey but I want it to be as goood as possible now so that I can start learning, exploring and eventually finding the music I want to make with it. Hope that makes sense

What do you envision your rack doing, beat-wise, that you can't already do with your Digitakt? Keep in mind that if you're playing guitar, you're not really going to be playing either the Digitakt or your modular.

Thanks again for your responses! I thought about the db-01 and put more thought into the direction I want to go. I think I was a bit misguided that I want/need to have a similar sound in my rack. I don't. I want something more experimental with a clear focus on harder beats/synth. This is why I want to go with the Noise Engineering BIA (Although I am not totally clear this is the NE voice I wanna go with, maybe I will end up with the Cursus Iteritas Percido or even add the Erica Synth Bassline Module). I also choose a bigger case and I am not totally fixed on this design yet, but this also comes down to the cost of such a case.

I added the Pamela New Workout as I like the module after researching it. It seems quite deep so that I will have to learn a lot while using it (Goes basically for every module here). Also, I added a Quad VCA, here the MI Veils. Moreover, I still keep the Desmodus Versio as I like the fact that you can change firmware and transform it into a different module. This seems quite usable!

I added the MUM M8 Filter but would like your thoughts about this. I also had my eyes on MI Ripples and others.

Finally, I like what Mimetic Digitalis can do so I kept it in this setup. Since I have the Pamelas New Workout in there as well I wanted to ask if you think it can replace the Intellijel Steppy? I like the straightforward way to control a sequence with steppy and based on the intellijel case you can easily multiply its clock to trigger for example Mimetic Digitalis.

I hope that I can evolve this setup into something I can use in a live setting to play harder beats (not necessary fast) with some drone atmosphere (need to maybe add a second NE voice or MI Elements). On the other hand, I want to be able to play on my guitar some hard fuzz riffs while having a nice hard beat sequence running on this beauty. Would be also cool within my band as additional instrument. If you think there is something missing to achieve this goal further suggestions are very much welcome.

The Expert Sleeper FH2 offers a lot of functionality as far as a USB MIDI to CV converter. You can use your DAW... OR... any standard MIDI controller. However, you'll find programming it or changing the settings from the front panel to be a real pain. Programming it from your computer using the a web-browser isn't so bad. But to make changes using your computer, you'll probably have to quit the DAW so the web browser can take control of the MIDI device from the DAW.

-- Ronin1973

So true, I've got one and it can do so much but setting it up everytime is killing my will to play with my eurorack. Definitely need to find a better solution to interact with Ableton.

thank you all for advice. i just found some old computer screws which work fine. they look like mainboard stand-offs but in silver and can be handled like knurlies. happy twiggling !

Sweetwater?

I suppose the disting attenuverter is entirely implemented in the software. The issue here is probably in the analog part of the module.

All inputs on the disting are analog meaning the input circuits see only analog signals even if it is a logic/digital signal you feed it with. The setup of the disting defines how the signals should be interpreted once they are digitised and ready to be further processed in the digital domain.

From my experience in electronic circuits design (a long time ago) I know that if you exceed the input specs, there’s all kinds of issues that could happen and could result in a digital representation of the input signal that is totally corrupted and seemingly uncorrelated to the input signal.

This needn’t be the case with the disting, so you could try using the internal attenuverter.
But I think it will prove you'll need the 321.

It's interesting to see how PV44 can appear to be cryptic to some.

The concept is pretty simple though : 4 trigger inputs select between 4 sets (columns) of 4 voltages defined by the knobs/switches. If 2 or more inputs are triggered simultaneously, it will prioritize (4>3>2>1) which set of voltages is sent to the outputs.

It was primarily developed to be used with drum/percussion synthesizers so that multiple parameters could be modified at once, and this is why it responds to triggers, have prioritization, and includes an output which is an OR of the 4 trigger inputs.

It can be used in other contexts, yet it might not be for anyone, as it's more of a companion to a trigger sequencer.

EDITED Dec 4th 2021, 10:23

He was really interesting to listen to on the Mylar.Melodies Podcast too

Though back in the day Surgeon wasn't my listening of choice, thats got nothing to do with Talent or Creativity of course.

the only module that can do both attenuation and offset per channel, that I know of, is the happy nerding 3*MIA - but you'd need 3 if you want a channel per ochd output
-- JimHowell1970

And you would need to actually find them somewhere.
-- mntbighker

true - but it's not that uncommon to have to wait for modules you want to be in stock... or to order and wait for stuff - impatience and modular never really go hand in hand... even without the current situation

just checked wigglehunt and there appear to be some in at analogue haven and there's on listed in the market place here in the eu as of yesterday

The Moogs aren't in the Eurorack cab? Good!

I actually got them custom side panels so they can sit flush with the rack. And even that cost less than the HP space they'd take if put into the cab.

This is how I would approach this, of course...but to me, this seems like a very solid, capable, and comprehensive build.
-- Lugia

Thanks for the input, Lugia! There are couple of new modules to me, have to read up on those. I got a combination of fever + terrible shoulder pain, so researching modules is a great way to focus on something as I try to nurse myself back to the land of the living.

the only module that can do both attenuation and offset per channel, that I know of, is the happy nerding 3*MIA - but you'd need 3 if you want a channel per ochd output
-- JimHowell1970

Ordered and received. The 3MIA works super next to OCHD. I may get a second one since I have 2 OCHD modules. 3MIA will be very useful in general. Another thing I have that does offsets is Befaco A*B+C.

EDITED Dec 10th 2021, 07:03

great functionality but using it (at least for me) is pain, pots are too small and too close to each other and to jack inputs
-- Skullstep

Agreed

Thanks for sharing. Surgeon's "Winged Assassin" was in my top Spotify plays this year. Big fan.

Thanks Lugia and Garfield!

Yeah I am stuck with the 6u Doepfer case until I can find an Intellijel 7u case or a Tiptop Mantis case back in stock. That would solve space issues. Anyways I plan to pair this up with my 4u Intellijel Endorphin.es case as future mobile modular rig. Still portable but plenty of power once it is all sorted and tested out. I wanted the Erica Synths Octosource but none were on sale so probably next year. By then hopefully I can swap out the 6u Doepfer case for a larger case that is still portable. Maybe I get something like a Case from Lake or Amalgamod that has lightweight but more space and 1u rows as well. Anyways all good as I still need time to learn the new sequencers. I am really liking how fast and easy the Black Sequencer is thus far! Same with Endorphin.es Ground Control that lets me play like keyboard in real time while running various patterns.

ss

Hi Sacguy71,

Since you want to make a kind of Erica Synths rack out of this, if this would be my rack, I would have add the Octasource for some nice and crazy modulation, which module has to leave for that... is indeed a bit difficult. Is there not an option to add one row? This is a slightly bit small case. I remember you got already this 2-row-complete-Doepfer-system, so why not add a 3-row rack to it and use that 3-row rack for this idea? :-)

Just my 2 cents, kind regards, Garfield.

Anthony talks about this setup here:

Almost there...I'd suggest pairing the 4TTEN with the dual VCA, then put the Batumi/Poti to the right of that. You definitely want that to make things easier with modulation tinkering.

An update and swapped out Maths due to case size. I did add Doepfer VCO/Wasp filter and BIA for more voices as well as Batumi for more modulation.

Thanks Jim and Lugia!

Yeah I really am liking the new Black Sequencer it is super intuitive, fun and easy to use. I get some great patterns from it.
I have Batumi in my larger case and may get a Zadar, Veils clone and perhaps another quad LFO like Divkid 0chd perhaps to give me 8 LFOs? Anyways, I have to wait until next year to buy anything new but for now can swap out and use Batumi with Poti expander for modulation needs as Maths is much larger.

@sacguy71 hahaha - didn't even notice who the OP was!!!

I just bought a black sequencer too - Black Friday!!! my 1st Black Friday sale purchase! must spend more time with it!

I think that takes up a huge amount of space in this size case - at least it's got 4 modulation tracks on in - I'd probably pair it with a zadar or other smallish 4 channel envelope generator in this size case!

I might even leave out Maths - zadar and batumi would be the same size together - and then everything I think would be available in black - if of course you are after that aesthetic!

The Moogs aren't in the Eurorack cab? Good! Also, as for the discontinued Mutable Kinks module, have a look at this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-tool-box 2 hp wider, but it's a treasure-trove of utility submodules hiding behind 6 hp and does a few other things the Kinks didn't.

So...OK, let's mess with this...

Well, now...I started with the original above plus some of the modules you'd suggested. The only major thing I got rid of was the second O&c. Then I just started whipping some of the faves in here...

TOP: Triple buffered mult first, as this is heading into "CV sag" territory without one. Doubled the Dixie2+ VCO, dropped the Rubicon2 in after that. The Quad VCA is next, then one of two Doepfer stereo mixers to set up stereo placement. Then the Salmple, with another Doepfer stereo mixer so that you can take your individual outs from the sampler and mix/pan them to taste. I opted next for a Malekko/Wiard Dual Borg so that you can choose between the two circuits, plus if you want LPGs, it does those. Then the other stereo filter is one of Rossum's Linnaeus dual VCFs, which has some very crazy modulation capabilities, including TZFM.

MIDDLE: Konstant Labs PWRchekr so you can keep an eye on your DC rails. The Liivatera noise source follows, then I went for THE random/s&h/etc source: a Tiptop/Buchla Source of Uncertainty. I added a SSF Tool Box for lots of extra submodule utilities, then the remaining O&c. I put in a 4ms Quad Pingable LFO...four CVable and/or pingable LFOs with a max cycle time of around 71 minutes, great for really slow changes across entire tracks or even an entire live set. Maths after that, then I put the Tangle Quartet here since it's got DC-coupled linear VCAs...a perfect fit with modulation signals. I paired this with a Tiptop MISO for modulation manipulation. Envelope gens are a Quadrax + Qx and then a Xaoc Zadar + Nin for longer/complex envelopes.

BOTTOM: Crow, Pam's, then we're into a set of modules for clock manipulation and Boolean logic: an Eowave quad clock delay, a Ladik dual random clock skipper, Frequency Central's Logic Bomb for the Boolean gates, a Xaoc Bytom for a pulse integrator, then a dual window comparator from Joranalogue. And along with that last one, there's a Ladik Min/Max CV averager and one of their Median averagers, both to extract new CVs from the behavior of incoming ones. After that is a quad quantizer so that you can apply a clock and then use sequencer or modulation CV behavior to derive pitch tesselations. And speaking of sequencers, I put in an Intellijel Metropolix (RYK175-type sequencer). Now, if I remember right, it has internal quantization...but if not, you've got a pair of quants for it and still two more for the above use. Output mixer is a Toppobrillo Stereomix2, which gives you CV over level via the VCAs per input, CVable panning and AUX sends. It also has a mono-in/stereo-out FX bus, muting per channel, and a CUE function that feeds the headphone preamp so that you can touch up things live while no one's the wiser. That AUX bus works great with the Purrtronics spring emulator, which has the same mono-in/stereo-out configuration. And lastly, the XLR outs.

This is how I would approach this, of course...but to me, this seems like a very solid, capable, and comprehensive build. And you can see the "up left/down right" structure...the modulation row does run out to the entire 125 hp, but the "voicing" runs in the left to right signal chain, plus your "control" signals from the Crow and/or Metropolix feed upward on the left side (more or less), and the audio result runs down the right to the Stereomix2.

One other note: if the Purrtronics isn't to your taste, you could easily substitute a Clouds clone that fits the same 8 hp hole. Just one more possibility...

EDITED Dec 3rd 2021, 23:20

Getting there! I'd suggest using the new open space on the bottom for one of the 4 hp 1/2-Veils clones, which will give you a pair of modulation-dedicated VCAs with the adjustable response. Other than that...hmmm...dunno. This is already looking pretty decent, and adding that might well button-up the "necessary" module complement.

I usually check here, Wigglehunt and a local forum for used modules. Used Kinks just seems to be elusive, but maybe I'll get one from Spain soon...

Elevator Sound - iirc they are opening up shop in Spain next week
-- JimHowell1970

Oh, thanks for the tip! I try to avoid ordering outside EU because in addition to paying customs I also have to pay to the local post system "for handling" (even if it'd be a courier company delivering my package)... Surprisingly they came up with this new scheme after it was declared that all packages outside the EU have to go through customs even if there'd be no taxes to be paid...

Aha! JNH has it right, they aren't using the usual hardware.

According to Pitt's website, their cases use 4-40 screws, 1/4" length. However, they use what appears to be standard Eurorack rails, so it might make better sense to disassemble the rail assembly and substitute some M2.5 or M3 sliders so that the cab now conforms to the usual hardware. And make sure you have more sliders than you think you need, because you'll need more anyway. Eurorack is like that.

I'd suggest checking Befaco's website. Not only do they have the sliders, they also have the "Knurlies". These are available in M2.5 and M3, and they speed up adjustments to a build to a matter of minutes, with no need for a screwdriver.

It sure does help! Thanks! And I am having so much fun already! The Squid feels so great already and I haven't even tried to sample CVs with it yet. I'll keep an eye out for the modules you mentioned. Links+Kinks would be a nice package, but I have not seen Kinks for sale locally or in EU in while (or I am just browsing the wrong used modules markets).
-- chlb

kinks has been discontinued - which is a shame

good places for used modules - here, modwiggler, possibly facebook - not sure if there's an EU specific buy/sell group - there's definitely a post-brexit one though

another good resource is wigglehunt - they tend to have shops and reverb only though - there's a couple in the UK at the moment - one of which is Elevator Sound - iirc they are opening up shop in Spain next week

there's not a lot to be saved on kinks used though - so if you can find one I'd just grab it!

I made some changes and edits and here is v2:

Swapped out Black Hole DSP for Happy Nerding FX Aid XL, added Maths, switched filters, added another VCO and smaller filters.

Keep that 321 in there, though. To get at the EX's attenuator function, however, you have to do some diving...as opposed to the 321, which needs nothing of the sort. Way more convenient, plus you're not tying the EX up with a simple function like that.

Hmmm...the solution to the case issue is actually right in front of you if you still have that 2S: an Arturia Rackbrute 6U. It fits above the 2S via its special bracket/handle setup, and it'll deal with this present build's issue of a too-small cab. I would suggest implementing that with less audio modules and more modules that can throw the 2S into sonic conniption fits: modulation, clock tampering, logic, etc.

Thanks Jim!
I can swap out the large filter for Erica Synths Polivoks v2 or Doepfer Wasp. For effects, I can swap out blackhole for FX Aid XL.
I just tested the modules and they sound amazing and Black Sequencer is really fun, powerful and easy to use. For modulation, the micro Ornament and Crime gives me four channels of modulation and Disting EX has some options as well. Problem in small case is the modulation type modules eat up tons of space. I look forward to your suggestions as always! Lugia also has great ideas.

Did you know that electronic music pioneer Morton Subotnick album Silver Apples of the Moon would be considered unlistenable to mainstream folks today who are addicted to rap hip hop crap and pop garbage?
-- sacguy71

Which is quite weird. I know of a couple of the Detroit pioneers who'd have a copy of that in their crates so that they could beatmatch the sequenced section of Part II against a basic track, then they'd keep the track up as the Subotnick tailed off into the weird Buchla dribbles in the last part of that side. Given that Morty did this with a single clock source, that trick works GREAT!

first thing I'd add would be an end of channel mixer, with enough channels to accommodate a bit of expansion...

I haven't just seen the one that makes me go "yeah, this is it!". Once Ferry comes back to stock I could get a Hyrlo to go with it, but it doesn't have panning. Doepfer A-138s would be able to pan mono signals at a very good price, but it has linear level knobs...

not sure about the double O&C though!

I got the the other O&C as a part of a bigger deal and it was so reasonably priced I'll easily get my money back if I want to sell it. I am running the stock firmware on one and Hemispheres on the other and it has been fun learning both firmwares without having the flash the module.

your dixie II+, rubicon and a waveshaper could form a single complex oscillator

That is actually my plan with them! I shall complete the trio with Bifold eventually.

hope all this helps - have fun!
-- JimHowell1970

It sure does help! Thanks! And I am having so much fun already! The Squid feels so great already and I haven't even tried to sample CVs with it yet. I'll keep an eye out for the modules you mentioned. Links+Kinks would be a nice package, but I have not seen Kinks for sale locally or in EU in while (or I am just browsing the wrong used modules markets).

I bought VCV to use as a VST in Ableton as well now.
-- jb61264

Exactly my plan, as well. I'll 100% want to pay for THIS! Talk about insane VSTs....!!!

If you reach out Pittsburgh might send you some, they did for me awhile back.

great news @nickgreenberg - the ksp seems to fit your requirements - hold down a chord and play an arpeggio - have fun!!!

I'd want to leave some space - I'd probably do it by swapping out the blackhole dsp2 and replacing it with a fx aid xl and I'd probably also want some more modulation sources - I'd also think long and hard about the filter - it takes up quite a bit of space in what's still a relatively small case

looks like a decent start and some decent plans... not sure about the double O&C though! I'd rather have more specialist modules!

first thing I'd add would be an end of channel mixer, with enough channels to accommodate a bit of expansion... this may not be a single mixer - it may be a number of mixers and depends on you really - maybe some channels with panning and some stereo channels (work out how many mono and stereo channels you need based on what you are intending to buy and then add some!

plus maybe some sub mixers - but you'll work out these as you need them (I want to mix this and that before doing this with the output - dc-coupled would be the way to go so they can be used for both audio and cv)

and then utilities - the aforementioned sub mixer(s), a way of multing signals (buffered mult for v/oct, passive for everything else - module, stackcables, headphone splitters etc), a matrix mixer, shades or 3*mia, kinks and/or wmd/ssf toolbox

fx aid xl is a useful module to add as it;s very versatile and has a decent amount of modulation inputs and better ergonomics than the non-xl version

personally I try to think (loosely*):

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

as this tends to give the most versatility for the money

*loosely because some modules fall into multiple categories and because multiple oscillators (and sometimes other modules) can form a single sound source - for example your dixie II+, rubicon and a waveshaper could form a single complex oscillator

hope all this helps - have fun!