User Posts

Thank Jim !
I need a solution to :
1. input my studio mixer bus out (to send external synths to my modular).

I didn't see a vca in your rack - I would get a quad cascading one (also doubles as a mixer) that actually amplifies (most vcas do not) - mutable veils has always been my first choice and you may be able to find one new still, otherwise a used one, or an intellijel quad will do...

2. lower the modular output to get into my studio mixer but in fact especially for headphones : stéréo out 1/4 jack (to not need any adaptor) TRS if available and a 'volume' knob.

have you tried just going straight from your eurorack mixer? is there clipping? if so attenuators or an output module will work - it'll probably be fine just going straight into your mixer with the appropriate cables - 1/8"->1/4" - I did this for a long time with a basic 15 year old 10 channel yamaha mixer

3. send/return - send modular signal into a Beebo or an Organelle and returning with eurorack level. The Organelle output level is so low that i think it might be guitar level, perhaps so a 'gain in' knob can be very useful.

AISynthesis make an inexpensive pedal interface and you can get 2 in 4hp, if you need that... they are reasonably simple DIY builds - you'll need appropriate cables though (see above)

Don't know if it helps but here's my rack :
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1962355.jpg

please post an actual link (the url) to your public rack - jpgs are next to useless - and there are almost 10k modules - so the chances that I (or anyone else) looking at your rack ad not knowing at least one module is pretty high...

it really depends on the send/return module - most are intended for guitar effects pedals - which expect guitar volumes - which are much lower than line level...

why do you think you need a line level output? a lot of mixers/audio interfaces can easily handle modular levels - possibly with just a bit of attenuation...

as for line input - all you need is a amplifier - some vcas can do this, veils for example - but most can't

maybe you could post a link to the rack?

the main thing you will learn from this is that 2hp modules (with tall trimmers instead of proper pots) suck in terms of ergonomics - eurorack is small enough already - go for bigger modules - unless they are set and forget or don't need any controls - and don't put them next to each other unless you really hate yourself...

Case: buy a tiptop mantis - it is by far the best combination or size/price/manufacturer reputation/decent power supply

Biggest thing missing from a starter perspective is a way to play melodic content - you don't have a pitch sequencer or midi->cv module - decide which you want to use and how many voices you think you might ultimately want - then get something based up on that - this way you will not have to learn and relearn different modules every time you need to upgrade

iirc the 921B requires a 921A module to work - but I wouldn't buy this I'd buy a doepfer basic vco instead - also an inexpensive brand - but without the bad taste

the endorphin.es running order covers euclidean sequencing so the 2hp euclid is superfluous

I wouldn't recommend buying anything in modular with the intention of replacing it with something better in the future - it's a false economy... as is buying too small a case! (see above)

See my signature for a rough guide on how to build a versatile modular synthesizer for the least outlay

there's no rough guide here - other than the collective wisdom of the forum members - there are in other places (modwiggler 1u & 3u subforum stickies for example) - great for general principles

read as many other newbie threads as you can before spending money - probably a couple of dozen will be a good start...

I'd say the same as @farkas and probably wouldn't do it with modular... I'd just "scribble" all over it with modular though!

I will buy Them assembled and want 1 mono and 1 stereo so that means i need 2 douts?

-- Broken-Form

yes 1 for the mono (with enough space for another mono channels) and 1 for the stereo

@Broken-Form - if you want the douts - you want one for each 4 x stereo channels and 1 for every 4 x mono channels module

and remember there are 2 versions:

3hp Douts - 8 3.5mm outputs
original Douts - 8 3.5mm outs and 6 1/4" outs - can also be used for 6 way format conversion

EDITED Jun 30th 2022, 18:25

it looked nicely build.

that it looks nicely built (unless you are using a magnifying glass) is not a great indicator of well built!

Tho' a few people on some modular communities has the same results with theirs.

yes I know - however, I don't necessarily take a lot of notice - what someone hears as noisy - almost all analog is noisy compared to the mixer in a DAW!! - or 'unacceptable bleed - see above responses from both me and @Lugia - again compared to bleed on a DAW mixer (non-existant) is user perceived at best

Very often, the "hiss" comes from the source, at my place bc I often use saturation or overdriven signals, that is where I use enveloped VCA just before the mixer's inputs, when needed, to get rid of the noise, when the muxer is quiet, that is a cool technique to get a clean-yet-overdriven signal. A bit off topic, sorry..
-- -ADR-

as I said my gain staging may be different than yours... have you tried using the built in vcas?

I don't know... I built mine (smd pre-soldered), but I'm sure Mangu's soldering is at least as good as mine, if you bought 'factory built'...

maybe my gain staging is better... maybe my hearing is worse (I'm 52, so possible)... maybe I don't run the output at a very high volume...

as I've said I only really notice bleed on the send/return - if channel send is up ad then I mute the channel - I can still hear the channel in the send - but this is to be expected when send is pre-mute!

Not a perfect module for me. With CV inputs on top, cables are on the screen and the knobs below.
I prefer buying a second FX AID XL.
-- Jihel

you could always turn it upside down....

I had the TEX MIX and the master section, it's a nice little slution, but TM is a very bleedy and noisy module.
-- -ADR-

mine isn't either...

60-hertz hum on his records.
-- Lugia

also known as "warmth"... hehehe

hahaha I use an old notebook!!

@Jim with the ST Mix, Doepfer VC Mix, the Matrix mixer and the Planar that should be enough 🤣
-- finnglink

probably... only you'll be able to tell!

And it's not like consoles are always going to work perfectly anyway. Back in the early 1990s and before, channel leakage is something that you had to watch out for, and it wasn't "NO leakage" back then, but "manageable leakage". I recall reviewing a Studiomaster Diamond 163 back in 1997 that had some very obvious leakage on high-level signals, and that was the sole flaw...otherwise, it was a killer little live desk.
-- Lugia

and even when recording bands in high end studios - there was always leakage on the microphones...
it's not the end of the world - & that's just what's supposed to be on the tape - there are many famous songs where there's an aeroplane flying over or a car driving by... big deal...

the only thing about the tex mix is that i heard there is some bleed through with the mutes

-- Broken-Form

there's a bit but as you can use the vcas on the mono channels it only really affects the stereo channels - & at least for me it's only really present on the returns - so you could just turn the sends down before muting...

I've got a tex-mix & really like it - inexpensive, DIY able (panel furniture & headers only) and very good for the price - and the douts are a great idea - saves stackcables for other things!

to bad it dont have direct outs,so you can multi track record into DAW(like on the D.O.MIXX)
-- Broken-Form

stackcables?

personally I'd go for 2 smaller mono mixers - more versatile for cv - & cram a matrix mixer in too

@JimHowell1970

You're right, kinda. I had a Befaco STMix in there, but I removed that, because there is nothing stereo in there. The Planar 2 also functions as a very hands on 4-channel mixer, so looking at the sound sources that should be enough (for me at least).

mixing is not just for audio!!!! get some dc coupled mixing in there for modulation!!!

The midixo is just a dummy, that'll be a 2HP DIYed panel with a TRS jack, as a breakout-module for the Spring Reverb Tank.
-- finnglink

makes a bit more sense...

there doesn't appear to be enough mixing to me - I'd want more than the matrix mixer (good call btw) and a single doepfer quad vca...

what's the midixo connected to? I don't either an expert sleepers midi capable module or any other midi module in the rack? seems superfluous to me!

Thank you very much for helping! I made some change according to your advice. May I ask is there any alternative module for the VCF you recommended? It’s a little bit hard to find in UK, Thanks.

there are 1200+ alternative filters... take a look and pick one with similar characteristics (and maybe check back here based on your selection) or just order one off reverb - it'll arrive, eventually... buying modules unseen from far flung places and waiting and hoping they arrive is part of the thrill of modular...

By the way I have a monome Norns is there a way to interstate it into this system?

I had to look up the monome norns, but then 15 seconds reading the module spec hinted that it may be possible using usb - you will have to read the norns and case specs carefully to see if they will connect - ie whether the case is recognized as a midi device or not - I suspect it is but my suspicions are no substitute for RTFM

And is the 1u mix module capable of connecting the case output? Thanks again.

is the case intellijel? looks like it to me - in which case yes the intellijel 1u tiles are designed to work with their cases... it's part of the sales strategy - buy our cases, fill them with our modules...

big mistakes to avoid?

buying modular synthesizers without enough research to know what you are buying...

Do I need outputs and/or mixer or some other modules can do that?

output module: you may or may not need an output module... depends what you are connecting to, most modern mixers and audio interfaces should be able to handle modular levels

mixer is probably too small for this size of case

you probably need more mixers

see my signature for a vague hint at how to build a modular synthesizer with the most variety for the least amount of cash

just tried to connect the BSP to plaits as descibed above,but i only get real short sounds comin out of Plaits,what im after some some longer Drone sounds,any tips?
-- Broken-Form

then you won't get a continuous sound from plaits - leave this unplugged and plaits will drone (depending on the mode) just like any other oscillator

just tried to connect the BSP to plaits as descibed above,but i only get real short sounds comin out of Plaits,what im after some some longer Drone sounds,any tips?
-- Broken-Form

don't plug anything into trig or level...

this sounds more like user error than anything else - please describe exactly how you are patching the bsp to the rings clone...

have you read the bsp manual? pitch is set by the knobs for the pitch sequencers - have you programmed a sequence into one of the pitch sequencers and played it? the pads generally work for triggers/gates... iirc

Do have any bang-for-your-buck kind of modules that you'd recommend?

go for doepfer - matrix mixer, sequential switch, polarizer etc etc

joranalogue compare 2 is an interesting logic module

here's the link, because jpgs suck!!

and I totally agree with @Shakespeare - more utilities, more utilities, more utilities... see my signature... it's a rough guide to getting a balanced, versatile modular for the least outlay...

what utilities? the ones you need, but getting more vcas, a matrix mixer, attenuverters, attenuators, logic and offset modules would be a good start...

EDITED Jun 19th 2022, 01:26

more utilities, more utilities, more utilities...

they are your plumbing, they are what allow you to have more interesting patches...

take a look at my signature - it's a basic guide to getting the most versatility for the least money - then go away and think about it... and think about it some more...

it may mean you need an extra row to fit them in, it may mean that you take stuff out of this rack and replace with different modules, it may mean you don't do anything (but this generally means you haven't thought about it deeply enough)

I'm guess you are looking for feedback

I really wouldn't bother with midi... bsp is built for pitch & gate (and modulation cv) so unless you are averse to patch cables (& remember they're intrinsic to using a modular synth) - I'd dump the midi->cv module as redundant and use that space for something useful like more utility modules...

the answer is yes...

both are valid options

personally I went for adding what I though was missing - and rearranging over time so that I have a more structured system - something vaguely like the layout of a 2600 - although at the moment I have a subset in the living room which I use - 3 cases (2 for audio and 1 for video) - I may shift this round soon

currently I'm at 8 cases approx 1800hp - with maybe 300hp free spread throughout - some of which is diy backlog (which I should really get round to)

but saying that I know of lots of people who set up each case as an individual instrument...

basically what works for you works for you...

EDITED Jun 18th 2022, 22:20

ok planning on taking the semis out of the case in the future - you get a pass on this

maths can work well in all racks...

I wouldn't worry about filling the case all at once - personally I think a single voice - vco, filter, modulation source (possibly maths) & a decent vca (quad cascading) plus a way to play & a way to listen is a good start, then add a few utilities and then think about more voices is a better way to go

well it's not really a modular synth is it? it's a collection of semis in a case with a few modules to bulk it out... as a modular synth it's shit...

at least one of the semis (probably more) have their own cases and power supply - use these otherwise you are increasing the cost of them by 10-20% and taking up rack space for actual modules

the other disadvantage of these is that you are not levering the advantages of modular - use this filter with this oscillator one patch and the next use a different filter with that oscillator.. etc etc

how are you going to sequence? use the mom? ok well there may be issues there iirc mom uses slightly different pitch scaling - so you'd need something to translate - or the octatrack? does it have cv outputs, idk... oxi one? no need for the buffered mult (buffers are generally only needed for pitch)

how are you mixing your external synths - I would not bother with an eoc modular mixer in this case... I would use the external mixer - which you might need to upgrade - but it will be less expensive...

falistri - urgh - imo - bad layout etc - get a maths instead, better learning documentation is available for it - see the 'maths illustrated manual' as well as the plethora of videos on you tube

on top of this, not enough utilities, not enough modulation... see my signature for hints on how to create racks that give the most versatility for the least cash...

1u - I cannot convey how wasteful I think it is (not necessarily a popular ideology) - in terms of cases they cost the same as 3u (or so close as to be irrelevant) and an extra 2u takes up about 3" and means you can fit way more functionality in the case - if I was given the choice of an intellijel 7u case or 2 mantises, I'd always take the mantises...

start with a bigger case you'll probably want it sooner than you think (or hope)

how are you mixing? just the quad vca? how are you monitoring?

I've not heard good things about the doepfer midi modules - I'd look for something a bit more featured too - especially as you have 2 sound sources

I'd take a look at my signature if I were you...

So in short: A 258T, folder, noise, quadratt, input/output, along with the PNW, Maths, 1x Veil, and Beads. Midi module can wait, an it is out of stock around where I am, or even online; but I can use CV outs on a controller etc for now. Something like the following, including a Disting EX for Swiss army knife of stuff.

PNW can be used to generate quantized, looped pitch sequences as well as gates, triggers and modulation, so all that is covered - having the ability to program sequences should be secondary at the moment compared to learning how modular works, at least for a while... a disting might be a good idea as it will allow you to play with different things - however, I would learn to use the other modules first - maybe consider adding the disting in a few months

if & when you do get a disting, don't try to play with all the algos at one go - work out a few algos you want to learn about and make use of the favourites feature to concentrate on those - if you find you particularly like one algo, replace that with a dedicated module and then re-configure you favourites (and repeat!!!)

I'd also recommend downloading the 'maths illustrated supplement' and working through that a few times - try to work out the why and how of what you are doing - it's a great learning resource, if you do this instead of just blindly patching....

--- 1U Row---
The 1U - makes sense to me, and without QoP drum module, the midi controls in there should be more then enough to start. Saves 3U space.

personally I think 1u makes little, to no, sense whatsoever... the cost of the 1u row is the same as for a 3u row, or in some cases more, I'd much rather buy 2 tiptop mantis cases than 1 of the intellijel 7u cases... and you can get much much more functionality in a 3u row than in a 1u row...

---Audio Row---
Also about tuning the oscillators, I guess I would need to tune with an external module or scope?

a free phone app or a guitar tuner pedal (plus appropriate cable) or your DAW (if you have one) will work for tuning!!!

--- Good starting build---
In the context of:
1) What I was willing to spend originally with endorpin.es setup
2) Assuming I minimally start with 1x single 258T, 1x Folder, and the 1U utilities
3) And I currently have PNW, Maths, 1x Veils, and Beads already

What other modules would you suggest to start with right away, and maybe a couple additional modules after? Also not to many modules, to get overwhelmed :0

none - just grab the vco and folder (& the utilities) and see where you are - learn these modules inside and out and then start working out what you are reaching for - and then slowly add modules that add those functions

EDITED Jun 7th 2022, 13:46

If this can be case no1 then imo I'd drop the 1u - I think 1u is massively overrated - and get a couple of mantises (which will only cost about the same as 1 7u intellijel case)

watch out for the endorphin.es use of trs cables - most modular uses ts...

as for falistri over maths - urgh - again personal preference, but I think the frap tools aesthetic is awful, cramped and all over the place!!!

I'd definitely only start with the single pams - 2 veils is good though... probably...

I'd try to do less in this case (1/2 the sound sources) and try to work out what support modules you need, get those and learn how to use them properly before expanding into a 2nd case

have fun!!

trying to do too much in too small a space imo

where is the modulation sources and utilities that are really needed to make the most of expensive shiny modules??? see my signature for some hints...

you'll almost definitely want more than a keystep pro to sequence the drum synth module (probably want 8 trigger/gate outputs just for that) and the melodic voices you have in there...

please post a link to your public rack - i.e. the url... jpgs are shit when you want help - no infomatics, no-click through - there are nearly 10k modules... no one knows all of them!!!

micro versions of modules with trimmers instead of proper pots and knobs are not fun to play with - and there may be some new plaits available...

mixing solution looks poor - no real end of chain mixer... how are you going to monitor?

do you really need the mimetic digitalis and a quad quantizer when you have metropolix?

well kermit seems to be 12hp and zadar is 10hp - so purely from a size perspective zadar would seem to be the obvious choice...

Thanks Guys.another Thing I have a pams new workout can I clock the BST to that?
-- Broken-Form

I should think so - check the manual

I'd advise bigger still - you have no room for expansion past what's in the 'bigger' case and imo 1u is a false economy - the cases that have it are expensive for what they are and often include superfluous functions that you may not need - midi and output modules are the main culprits here!

get a tiptop mantis instead and there will be space left over so the inevitable 2nd case is further off...

the mantis is best balance of hp/cost/manufacturer reputation/good power supply there is...

getting a tiny case 62hp and planning a 2nd 62hp cases immediately is a waste of money!

and spending a little bit more to buy a mantis will at worst set you back a month or so on buying a module - and you should go slowly buying modules anyway so that you learn them properly rather than superficially, before adding more modules...

there is actually no perfect module!

"you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time"

"Hot from the Ukraine"... Hot from Tenerife more like, according to what Igorr wrote in the announcement post for this module on Modwiggler! so he's safe and sound on Tenerife and setting up shop there...

have you tried selecting them in datasheet view and then copying and pasting them?

plaits has an internal vc/vcf/lpg - most oscillators do not have this...

I'm assuming that the e352 doesn't...

pitch from bsp to vco pitch input (maybe marked v/oct)

output of vco into vca and then possibly into a filter (or vice versa)

gate from bsp into cv input of vca or into envelope generator and then into cv input of vca

It is very cool. I just had my first play around with it - with its 8x16 grid, it's a very visual way of working, which I like. It's a bit like the Deluge, but sequencer only. And it's tiny! The entire box it shipped in, containing the Oxi One, a carrying case, cables, and a module to connect modular with a single cable, fits into my BSP case!

that's great - sometimes bigger is better, and sometimes the opposite

Well, coming from the Argon8x and having the wavetable mode in Plaits, I know there can also be a big difference between VCOs. The Argon has these incredible wavetables where you just go back and forth through the table and you've got an instant classic. But I see what you mean. I have doubted my Feedback Lo-Fusion for a while, but I really started liking its instant old-school warm grungy sound. That's character. Do you have the same feeling about effects, e.g. different reverbs/delays?

yeah I think there's a lot of character in effects... there can be both subtle and massive differences in almost all of them... probably why I have so many!

That's a good point. And the Lion is TRS, too, which I understand for send/return, but that means it requires dedicated cables. Something standard has its advantages.

yeah and it's trs to dual ts cables you need and no control other than where you plug the cables in...

Ugh.

exactly!

Not looking forward to telling my wife I'll be adding a second case... It's not like she's not supportive - she likes that I'm making music. It's just me being very uncertain about spending money again on it. I also like the idea of having a portable system for performances - which will be new for me but I'm starting talks. One Intellijel 7U + Oxi + iPad is eminently portable. Add a second 7U and it becomes far less so. Or that's how it seems to me now. If you'd told me I'd be lugging around a 7U + BSP + bag full of cables/PSUs + laptop bag with iPad and macbook pro to workshops every week... "Add a second 7U" is a meaningless delta when you're already dragging Google's data center around
-- Arrandan

well it all seems easily portable in a rucksack and 2 cases... so ok on public transport!! another option of course is buy a massive case for home and swap what you need into a single case for a gig...
I hope your wife is understanding...

EDITED May 20th 2022, 23:27

iirc there are only 2 firmwares - the original doesn't have lfos - no idea how to check as mine is pre that firmware and I never upgraded it

the update procedure is usually in the manual for mutable modules

I like the befaco excalibus works very well for me up to video rates...

Possibly - the reason to use the Pams as master is that it's solid and it's easy to read the BPM - don't know the Oxi One at all - maybe you can clock that from Pams - altough vice versa is probably fine too

That should be okay:

looks cool - hope you get on well with it - I'll have to find a review...

And anyway, if I link them up, both will show the same clock. Or should at least No fun memories of trying to get a BSP to work with a Korg SQ-1 as central clock. In the end it was quickly done, of course, but it required a computer to reconfigure the BSP, which I didn't have with me at that time...

yeah only issue with bsp... always carry a macbook pro is the answer...

I have 2 filters in there now - Squawk and the Lo-Fusion. Lo-Fusion isn't very dense but I've grown to like its raw sound. Perhaps Steve's MS-22 is similar and more in less HP, because both are based on the MS-20. We'll see.

It's easy to miss the odd module - especially if it's not a common one... but if you ask me the more the merrier - I've got at least 6 in the rack and a few external ones...

I'm definitely happy I added the squawk. The always-present HPF and the flexibility are just so handy. I've used both my filters in everything I've done since the squawk arrived.

I have an old Frostwave Resonator - which is a pedal format(ish) MS20 filter... more filters is always better than more vcos - mostly vcos are vcos - filters are where the character is 90% of the time

Matrix mixer - yes, I've been thinking about that. I saw DivKid's video on the Instruo Lion and it's an interesting non-standard approach to a matrix. Doepfer is of course a good standard. I'll need to look into matrix mixers more deeply, because there are so many different possibilities (attenuverters, ...)

I saw that video too - but I think a standard one is much easier to work with and no special loopback plugs to loose!!!

That's a good point. And the Lion is TRS, too, which I understand for send/return, but that means it requires dedicated cables. Something standard has its advantages.

yeah and it's trs to dual ts cables you need and no control other than where you plug the cables in...

Adding stuff is nice, but I'm running out of space. Add a tetrapad and all 3U is full. I feel like I'll need to just do it and decide what I will keep in the rack based on what actually works.

obviously time for another case then...

Gateway drug! Escalating addiction!
-- Arrandan

tell me about it - 8 cases... 1800hp-ish... cupboard full of effects pedals... etc etc... down to 4 guitars and only 1 bass though! so swings and roundabouts...

• Behringer Brains (as synth voice)
• Mutable Instruments Peak (LFO / ADSR)
• Doepfer A-180-e

no need for a buffered mult - only 1 pitch destination - so passive is fine, better yet get some stackcables or headphone splitter type mults

• Z5000 (as multi FX)
• TipTip Forbidden Planet (Filter)
• Erica Pico DSP
• kNob AGNI
• Bastl Popcorn
• Quad Quantizer

why do you think you need a quad quantizer - you only have 1 thing that wants pitch? you mention recommendations for a sequencer below - how about one with a quantizer built in - a used metropolis for example would be a great starter sequencer...

• Quad VCA

good - but get a veils whilst you can - 2hp smaller and better features imo!

Hey guys,
I want to build my first rack to accomplish

no you want to 'accompany' - accomplish is something quite different - please check with a dictionary... I don't usually pick on incorrect use of English, as your English is way better than whatever language you speak - but it's the second time I've seen the same mistake in 2 days and, well you know....

DFAM & 0-coast. Something as a little synth for interesting bleeps & bloops for techno & basslines.
Brains is no-brainer for its price & versality.

plaits is still available, buy that instead, it's 2hp smaller and you don't sell your soul to Uli...

Maths looks a bit complicated to me so i decided to pick up Peak instead.

I have both and I find Maths to be significantly easier than Peaks... as it's one function per knob, etc - Peaks I have to look up what each knob is doing in each mode - & if you include split mode and expert mode etc there are about 19 different knob combinations - have you managed to find a peaks - they've been discontinued for a quite a while!

• Curious about filter - is it nice or there are some better alternatives?

no idea - there are always alternatives, it's very personal & the more the merrier - I have 8 or so actual filters in my rack (and a few external ones) - Plaits includes a filter so you could skip initially

• Any interested but not wide & over-complex sequencers?
• I m planning to build it in Cre8audio Nifty Case so be able to sequence it alternatively with Ableton or AUM.

don't get 2 multi fx modules & wait and get either the new xaoc one or an fx aid xl - should be available again soonish

get a tiptop mantis - more space, that you will need sooner rather than later/better power/manufacturer has good reputation/case has good reputation/seriously better bang for buck all round - and a used beatstep pro... don't worry about unused space in the case - but do at least make some cardboard blind panels & decorate them with doodles or stickers

EDITED May 19th 2022, 23:52