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I just listened to his "Why We Bleep" podcast episode and found it so fascinating. He did talk about using Mutable Instruments Yarns as part of his live setup to basically get signals from his live drummer and his modular systems instantaniously adapts to the change in tempo/swing. I read somewhere, however, it was perhaps mistated and it's actually a Mutable Instruments Peaks module.
-- mattheo

it's almost definitely yarns... it's a midi input - if the drummer is using a midi enabled kit...

peaks is a versatile module and could be used for this if the drummer was using triggers or contact mics or the like - but the signal may also need amplifying 1st

saying that I can't see either of those modules in the posted rack

& the link because... well, jpgs are useless...

the thumbnail doesn't match the rack though!!!

pip slope & adsr: depends if you use both of them or not - I'd try taking the adsr out & see if it makes a difference to your patching... why the adsr & not the pip slope - it's quite big and will free up more space... if you decide you do need an adsr - there are smaller ones...

filters: get the one(s) you like the sound of best...

layout: I'd probably move maths (& the adsr if you decide to keep it) down and the filter & veils up - order depends on if you usually go vco->filter->vca or vco->vca->filter... I'd probably try to move the midi module up (to the left of pams)

suggestions: more modulation (batumi or another similar sized quad lfo), attenuators, switches, a matrix mixer, a multi-fx module (I like fx aid pro)... but by the time you add those you'll need a bigger rack (get a mantis!)

EDITED Oct 25th 2023, 23:58

MD does have some quantization options if you press the knob down and tune each step, however there is no scale selection, its just chromatic: https://noiseengineering.us/blogs/loquelic-literitas-the-blog/does-mimetic-digitalis-need-quantizer

but it sounds more like you want a sequencer that had a transpose by CV option? some of the ornaments and crime apps offer this (just as an example, there are many options out there)
-- Sythic

that's good - I didn't see that in the description... personally I like to be able to tell what I'm transposing by... not that it's important unless you are playing with others (or other instruments)... I also like to be able to transpose individual sequencer channels - so a sequencer that transposes isn't necessarily that useful - especially if it's multi-channel - personally I use a sinfonion - which can do transposition to the correct root and scale - based upon the currently selected chord (which itself can be sequenced)

& the link again!!!

why the original pams & not the new or pro version... either of these & you can dispense with scales!

Hi @JimHowell1970
Thanks for your input.
What exactly do you mean by "the precision adding in links is superfluous"?
Not precise at all?
-- Loersatz

links is a precision adder... so good for adding 2 quantized signals together and getting a 'quantized' output ie c1 + c1 = c2

MD output is not quantized... so if you add this to a quantized signal the output is not quantized anymore... so using a precision adder to sum the 2 signals is unnecessary - any old mixer will do the same job - output a non-quantized signal...

if you want to stay in 12tet (or whatever scale) then you need to quantize either the MD output (before adding - so 2 quantized values are precision added to another quantized signal ie c1 + c1 = c2) or the links output has to be quantized (to get c1 + unquantized signal = unquantized signal -> quantizer = quantized signal)

some concerns...

you have an expander module for a module you don't have... the alyseum hold

you have an expensive, discontinued (and almost uniobtanium) joystick which is way over specced for audio (it's avideo module - much higher specs than audio)

I'd want more vcas and mixers (probably combined into a quad cascading vca) - and more modulation...

I'd drop one of the 1u rows for an extra 3u row.... and add a simple matrix mixer...

another option is a cheap outboard mixer - I've used an old inexpensive yamaha MG10 for this for years - works great... no output module, the mixer handles modular levels well...

OK so just trying to use what I currently have as of now.
Could I do the following:
1. Send a quantised sequence from Voltage Block to MI Links In1
2. Send a random sequence from Mimetic Digitalis to MI Links In2 (which could go through an attenuator for more control)
3. Send MI Links Out 1 to an Osc Pitch In
MI Links would actually transpose, no?

Edit:
@farkas
Works great :)
Thank you all.
-- Loersatz

I'd want a quantizer at some point after the mimetic digitalis - as it's not quantized - immediately before or after links - both will work... unless you don't want 12TET, in which case any old mixer will do - as the precision adding in links is superfluous

+1 for Jim's suggestion of Maths, but I'd hold off on getting a full size Quad VCA because the 2hp VCA is adequate until you have a larger system.
-- 33PO

And again, not to mention Optomix with its vca function on each channel...
-- Sweelinck

you can never have too many vcas!!! especially dc-coupled quad cascading ones - as they double as both audio and cv mixers - which you can also never have too many of!!!

well not totally true, but the more the merrier!!

do you mean when typing into the description, that the preview is not updated?

it doesn't automatically update for me either with Firefox - refreshing the page does update the preview though... typing and pasting into the description field works perfectly though...

which browser are you using? Safari?

looks like 4u to me!! & 88hp is a wierd width... are you sure it's not 84?

things you are absolutely missing... not enough vcas or mixers... for either audio or cv... so no sub-mixing for example...no attenuators for cv... & only 1 filter??? you have 2 sound sources, the through zero & the 2hp vco, combined, and the sto... I'd want at least 2.. ok you have an optomix, which can kind of be 2 vca/filters, but...

the BSP has 2 pitch outputs... I'd probably want a buffered mult to copy the pitch to all 3 vcos...

I'd want delay & reverb, not delay or reverb or chorus...

if you have 7u I'd seriously consider maths over function - it's much more versatile! see the maths illustrated supplement (via google) for more information...

I think x-pan is over the top for these modules... no stereo modules... I'd stay mono at least for now... & replace this with a quad cascading vca (veils clone) - which can be used as a mono output...

I'd also split up the 2hp modules so they are more useable...

I'd suggest only adding a couple of modules to start with and learning them inside out, before adding more... and then only adding 1 or 2 modules and repeating and repeating...

I'd probably go with maths & a quad vca to start...

hope this helps!

trying to fit modules that are too deep into the case usinf standoffs - which is ugly and potentially hazardous to both the power supply and the modules...

why is it dangerous for your modules or powedsupply?
-- ThierryH

loose cables, screws etc can fit in between the gap left by the standoff and potentially short modules/power supply...

And if you want to explore sound with much more freedom and absolutely stick to a small format of 60HP, the possibilities of choice of modules are immense...

but also extremely limited...

by the time you include a power supply - usually 4hp - you're down to 56hp for actual modules... which is not a lot of room at all... especially if you want 2 extra oscillators and the support modules required to make the most of them - vcas, filters, modulation sources, envelopes, mixers, effects etc etc... otherwise you may find yourself trying to add too many very small modules - which leads to poor ergonomics (tending towards unuseable) and potentially trying to fit modules that are too deep into the case usinf standoffs - which is ugly and potentially hazardous to both the power supply and the modules...

I would suggest getting a substantially larger case - a tiptop mantis is a great starter case - best bang for buck in terms of hp/cost/decent power/manufacturer reputation - and buying fewer modules initially (& some blank panels - cereal box cardboard can be used) and then expanding the modules slowly as you get an idea of what you want...

& the link to the rack, because jpgs are shit

how are you playing this? there is no sequencer or midi -> cv module

personally I'd swap out the mixer and the data for an expert sleepers es9 - this will add connectivity to your computer - for vcv rack integration (use a scope in vcv rack) and can be used as a standalone mixer and output... I'd go for a veils clone instead of the curiousers...

I'd also add a couple of simple evelope generatrs, a quad modulation source and a 3rd simple vco (so you can use the fm capabilities of the tzfm osc)

also some form of effect - delay and reverb especially would be a good idea...

on top of those some simple utilities are always going to be useful - something like a happy nerding 3 * mia, a kinks clone, some mults etc

maths is a fantastic module - don't forget to download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it multiple times - concentrating on how, what and why it is doing what it is doing - this will massively help with your understanding of patching...

also take a look at my signature... it's a quick guide to getting the most versatility in patching for the least expense...

I would suggest starting with a single voice and the support modules that are needed to get them to work - ie a minimum viable synth - a sound source, a sound modifier, a way to play and a way to listen - possibly plus some of the utilities I mentioned above and learn those modules well before expanding then add a module or 2 once you are happy with your level of understanding and then repeat...

I want it to not waste money on modules that I won’t use

nobody wants to do this, but to a certain extent it is inevitable - you think you want a certain module only to find it's workflow or whatever doen't work for you... luckily there is a decent used market for modules - see marketplace - and often the only cost of tyring a module is the postage...

I think it'd also be a good idea to answer the questions I posed above - as the answers can really help us help you:

what type of music are you trying to make?

what other gear do you have?

I think it's expensive

seriously... 7 cents a day to support this fantastic platform?

I have no idea what else you can do for 7 cents a day - not a great deal!!!

It seems like the total price of grids dissapeared. Maybe intentional. Just wanted to mention it.
-- ambientvalent

have you checked your user settings? there's a switch in there to turn them on and off!

I thin the Pamela Pro Workout is a great Option. Instead of the Cosmotronic Delta for Envelopes / VCA would you think that the Javelin from WMD or the Sinc Bucina from NE might be also a good choice? Both modules are smaller and it would safe some space.

+1 on pams - personally I like to keep envelopes and vcas separate... more modular - if you want to replace the envelope or the vca you can without replacing the other... also a combined env/vca may be hardwired - so no using hte envelope for something other than the vca and no using the vca with something else to open it... not sure if this applies to whatever - I'd also recommend getting more vcas than you think you need - always useful for cv as well as audio...

AI is a fine choice. Plaits will have more algorithms and cover more sonic territory

Currently I also thinking replacing it with the Manis Iteritas, but I guess that is just preference and both will do great.

both have these have been dsicontinued due to the micro-processor used being discontinued - buy asap to avoid disappointment!

Ghost would be a great all-in-one choice for a small system. It's able to do all these FX at once, plus it has VCA and Filter built in.

I am wondering if I even need a dedicated FX section. My current plan is couple the rack with my Elektron Syntakt and will route the audio from it into the Syntakt. Syntakt has a dedicated FX processor with reverb, delay and sort of overdrive. You can even implement ducking here since my percussion will come from the Syntakt. Moreover, I have some effect pedals for guitar lying around like a Fuzz, Reverb or Flanger. So I could apply FX to the synth voice outside of the rack and give it some more character. Or am I missing something?

guitar pedals are great for modular - best to get a pedal interface module, though - so that the levels and impedence match - there are small inexpensive 2hp ones - AI synthesis for example - and much bigger ones, sometimes with more features, which you may or may not find useful... if your pedals have expression pedal inputs - then the ALM SBG is a good buy as this includes an expression pedal output... the only disadvantage of pedals over modules is that modules are easier to modulate with CV... which may or may not be important to you...

as I stated previously I don't have experience with Elektron devices - but make sure that the inputs can cope with the levels you are inputting... modular is very high and pedals are generally very low...

I always dump smaller modules out to the side and then rearrange the larger ones, so that the gaps are in the right places for the small ones...

I don't think the unicorn account is particularly expensive... it's 7 cents a day... and you don't have to pay if you don't want to, for whatever reason...

Hi there,

actual link to the rack and not just a crappy jpg:

I am planning a new rack that is aimed at minimal, monophonic techno basslines (and maybe leads). A brief disclaime, I know this is a small 62HP setup and there will be folks here that scream go bigger, but thats not the point of this setup. It is not supposed to be a standalone do-it-all solution. I want it to become a piece in my setup that is great a doing good and interesting basslines that I can keep evolving. I want to couple it with an Elektron Syntakt that takes care of all drum/percussion duties and the main clock. I hope you can help me figure out if I am missing a crucial part in this setup or should replace some modules against more versatile modules.

Normally I'd be advocating a much bigger rack, however as you are being mission specific... I'd probably go a bit bigger though! maybe the next size up pallete.. just so you have a bit of space for some utilities... they will add a lot of versatility to your patching for not a lot more cash...

Let me go through my thought process in this setup:
Sequencing: I want to use steppy and mimiteic digitalis since I love what people are doing with the combination, this is what really got me hooked into planning and building my own modular synth in the first place

hmmm - I'm not convinced of these modules... steppy is a trigger sequencer - ie very short pulses - not gates, which is generally what you want for envelopes... (some envelopes will work with triggers - make sure you have an envelope generator that can be triggered and not gated) & mimetic digitalis does not have a quantizer built in - which is fine, if you want to make non-12tet music, or you have an external quantizer, which you don't...

also as you have the midi module - I'd just take clock & pitch/gate sequencing from that - Syntakt can sequence pitch & gate as well as drums can't it??? idk I've never used any elektron gear!

Clock: I have the Horlogic Solum in here for clocking, wich seems to have nice capabilities of also splitting the clock

How are you intending to clock this? & what are you intending to trigger with the divided clock - there's not really enough to warrent it in the rack imo

LFO: Clep Diaz, but I am not 100% sure about it since the After Later Audio Clone of MI Tides can do LFO duties as well. Maybe you have some suggestions here.
Envelope: After Later Audio Clone of MI Tides

I would suggest you need both of these or at least both lfos and an envelope... personally I'd rather have more lfos and a single, simpler, smaller envelope (that can be triggered) - I'd also want attenuverters & offsets for the lfos - but tides can also be used as a vco...

Filter: After Later Audio Clone of MI Ripples

decent choice... if a bit vanilla... a wasp might be a better bet, as it would add grit, but might not fit in the case

Voice: Noise Engineering AI since I like what people do with it. Still I am not sure if I also should have a second Oscillator in here, maybe a simpler one?

maybe, but then you'rre running out of space & you'd need a mixer...

Reverb/Delay/Distortion: Noise Engineering Versio since it is flexible with the Firmware and sounds really cool.

remember you can only do 1 of these at a time... and have to take it out of the case & reflash to swap which sounds like a pain to me... personally I'd want at least 2 of reverb/delay/distortion (if not handled elsewhere)

so yeah.. you're missing some things & duplicating some things... I'd have a serious think about these things before parting with cash, if I were you

to me it seems very heavy on sound sources and modifiers - light on modulayion sources & utilities...

see my signature for firther details and food for thought!
-- JimHowell1970

Are there any in particular that you'd suggest, looking at my system?
-- SlunkLord

matrix mixers are always great, sequential switches, logic, clock dividers, sample and hold...

triple sloths is good - especially when combined (via a matrix mixer, perhaps) with other modulation sources... a quad lfo (or envelope generator) like batumi or zadar is great (especially with the expanders)...

if you haven't already download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it many times - always thinking about what, why & how...

Tides has been great and I am not selling it. For now, it will just go into my 4ms Pod. It was one of the first 3 modules I got. Now I have plenty of other modulation sources that I didn't then.

don't forget tides is also a great sound source!!

tbh - I've sold very few modules - I just add cases!

For a rack not focused on drums and wanting this system to be completely self contained, would you get rid of the Tymp Legio?

probably...

I currently have MI Tides but will be removing that module to make room for the Waver and the Ts-L V2.
-- ShoutingParrot

why? - tides rocks (both versions)

along with what everyone else has said...

for guitar and bass input - most people want envelope following and gate extraction rather than pitch... as this is usually poor... the disting ex is one of the best at it though apparantly - I've not tried any pitch extraction, especially the b-cpompany module - but I do use envelope followerrs and gate extraction...

I have a very strong feeling that the 921B vco needs a 921A to actually work properly - do your research on this...

I never recommend either b-company or synthrotek on ethical grounds - don't support biggots!

strongly agree with the pam's suggestion - and not convinced a clock multiplier is a great thing - better to have a faster clock and divide - than a slower clock and multiply - especially if you want accurate timing (unless you are always going to use a very steady clock)

I'd go for less voices and more utilities - see my signature for hints - more versatility in patching for less expense...

doepfer and ladik are both solid and inexpensive (especially for utilities) and worth supporting as companies...

not convinced you need 2 dual ADSR modules... I'd lose 1 to make room for something more interetsing...

adefinitely a veils clone and a full size plaits clone over the b-company versions - After Later Audio and others make them and are worth supporting!

I'd also start with a minimum viable synth a single sound source, a single sound modifier, a modulation source (I like maths from Make Noise - another company worth supporting), a way to play and a way to listen plus some utilities - a quad cascading vca (veils) can be used as a mono output (& input for that matter - with disting ex for pitch/envelope following & maybe gate extraction - again a company worth supporting)

to me it seems very heavy on sound sources and modifiers - light on modulayion sources & utilities...

see my signature for firther details and food for thought!

Hi,
If you buy them in the exact size you will have the advantage of having the fit for the cable tab.
Ferran.
-- ferranadsr

but only if you buy shrouded headers - which is great if they fit... not so great when they don't!

also there's no problem buying longer ones and cutting them to size... you may lose a pin or 2 though... often the 40pin lengths are only a little bit more expensive than 8 pin or 10 pin... pitch is usually 2.54mm... mouser, tayda, rme, farrell all regularly stocck them...

@Sweelinck's link above directs to the same image as displayed...

for future reference copy & paste the url...

things I'd point out - the chord organ might be difficult to source... the teensy 3.2 is very difficult to find (probably end of lifed)

and the instruo ceis is quite expensive - you might want to look at the befaco vc adsr & it couldt be a good alternative and is available as a kit (or pcb/panel set)

& again the translation, from google (it literally takes 30 seconds), please include this in future, for the wider community...

"Hi, I have it and it works.
can you specify the problem? or make a video? maybe it's defective?

the 2hp verb is the bomb, I don't think I'll ever sell it, in fact maybe I'll buy others. It's a reverb though, not a delay"

I always do my research before buying any gear, read the manual and some reviews, check out everything you can find on youtube.

-- GunnarWaage

this is very good advice... far better than any recommendation for a module that some random person on the internet can give...

I finally worked out a final solution for my piles of modules that aren't in racks...

I bought a 42ru rack: https://www.titanav.co/products/titan-av-42ru-19-adjustable-open-rack

I really like that this thing is on wheels, as I need to be able to roll it out of my studio when bands are in to record.

won't the bands want to use your modular??? are you trying to hide it from them? hahaha

JimHowell1970 suggest Befaco, which I'll look into. Are they modular in their design, or will I need multiples?

indeed I do... they're not modular and you'd need multiples - one per 2 or 3 rows & somewhere to mount them - shelves perhaps...

Also, is the TipTop Happy Ending still the cheapest way to get ears and z rails? Would it be cheaper to build my own?

I'd have thought that buying rails and inserts (or nuts, if you prefer) and ears separately would be cheapest - but don't know... also depends where you are etc... I think the b-company sell a knock off version that's cheaper...

I'm not a big fan of the modular in a module approach... it's not imo a very modular approach imo - more synthesis with modules than modular synthesis...

I'd much rather have actual modules or a es8 or es9 and use vcv rack... so I'd go for the FX Aid Pro every time over the hector...

I'm not sure you need both the midi -> cv module and Hermod + (hermod has midi->cv capabilities)

neither am I a big fan of the oxi coral and similar modules that are better played with midi and can do lots of voices... although at least you'll be able to play it with the hermod plus... mainly because I'd want separate chords, bassline and lead modules and the support modules that are needed for them - vcas, filters etc... because that's where modular actually gets to be worth it... at a minimum I'd want more filters - at least a dual/stereo one for the oxi... probably another for the sampler... don't see much point in a mono filter in thos set up

could also do with some vcas (a quad cascading one would be a good investment) and some other utilities - possibly a matrix mixer...

https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235356

The only thing I don't like about it is that the tuning knobs are big and close to the FM controls (making it easy to knock the tuning out).
-- PragmaticusMax

you could always take the knobs off... pots are usable without them but it's much more difficult to knock them out of tune that way...

it's to do with how we perceive loudness... our brains work exponentially...

so linear is usually for cv and exponential for audio...

althoug it also depends on the envelope that you feed them... an expenential envelope into a linear vca will behave in the same way as an exponential vca...

personally I'd get a veils clone instead (even if it means waiting a short while before buying it) - does both linear and exponential + loads more interesting features + more channels - which is always good (you can never have e nough vcas) and probably cheaper per channel!

have you thought about patching a complex oscillator with the modules you'e already got... it'll probably get you a more distinctive and different sound than buying an off the shelf one... I'd do some research on this and play around with them, at the very least it will help you narrow down what you want from a complex oscillator, in terms of the built in functionality - wavefiolder, fm, am, pm etc....

guitar input...

I've got both the doepfer a-119 (noisy - can be upgraded with a simple & cheap chip swap - no soldering - but still noisy, just less so - I particularly like it for fuzz bass) & the befaco instrument interface (not noisy and can handle phantom powered mics)

both have envelope followers and gate extractors - which are very handy...

If you're primarily going to add new modules then I'd power them from the a wall wart (hopefully a few per wall wart)... there's a module for distribution of this, but it might be better to have a hole in the back of the case...

Chromagnon definitely power from a wall wart - it'll probably be a massive power hog

with the psu3s - I think they're definitely underpowered at 84hp/9u for video (& imo digital modules) - I'd probablyt want 1 every 84hp/6u - but it really depends on if you're going to use predominantly analogue modules and/or use the edicated power supply for video... so maybe a bit less than that... if you're guesstimating power consumption 10mA/hp for each of the +ve & -ve 12v rails is a good rule of thumb for video modules (remember to leave some headroom)

mixing audio and video in a single case is a good idea... utilities especially can be used for both... I made a series of instagram videos #lzxveurorack, a while back, to illustrate various non-video modules working in video...

what are you using for your vector scanning??

which video synthesis modules are you intending to use?

which case size?

how many psu3?

the psu3 was one of the recommended power supplies for lzx video modules... but note that video modules are usually power hungry... new lzx factory built modules can be run directly from a 12v wall wart - or via a splitter module (or cable) or from a eurorack power supply... so it really depends what you intend to run and what else. is in the case...

I've heard a lot of people having issues with doepfer midi->cv modules - I'd go for a mutant brain instead...

otherwise the top row kind of makes some sense... although you'd massively benefit from some vcas and some modulation sources and a second vco (to take advantage of the thru 0 fm on the one you have)...

the trigger sequencer makes no sense though... it takes up a huge amount of space & what are you triggering???? please explain your use case/reasoning for this....

& why 2 clock dividers on top of the trigger sequencer? what are you imagining using them for?

what type of music are you trying to make?

what other gear do you have?

these answers will help us make sense of the rack....

Hi! I've read the whole comment. First, I would kiss your forehead to express how much I appreciate it... however my style of expressing emotions could be weird in certain circumstances like this particular one... So... Thanks very much!

Thanks... is more than enough!!!

top row:

doepfer are not well known for midi -> cv modules... I'd not worry about this to start with... ie I'd drop the module...

Mutant Brain... Instant replacement!

the oscillators you've chosen... I'd probably want a 3rd - something different - either as the source for FM on one of these, or as a separate sound source...

I'm not convinced by the audio divider... what's your imagined use case for this?

I thought it could be nice (for bass and leads?) to replicate to different octaves. I like that sound much. Or to simply control different LFOs.

yeah maybe... but I'd just go for a clock divider to start...

not convinced by the sequencer... I think there are better options out there... so why this one? also NB it has no quantizer built in so you need either a dual one - or a sequencer module with quantisation built in... also needs a clock input... so either you need a sequencer with clock built in or you'll need an external clock - if you want to sync to a DAW, via midi you'd need one of the doepfer modules that specifies sync - ie not the one you chose - or a different midi->cv module (mutant brain - is a very good option) - or sync via audio (I use a kick sample) - also this sequencer massively benefits from pairing with the controller...

In principle, I will never use a DAW since my aim is to create everything by myself as much analogically as I can. But you are right. If there are options with some things included I should take a look at them. For example, Erica's one and Metropolix are digital, and that is not a "No" for me, but is a "mm... I don't know..." (even if they offer such flexibility)... So I'll think about them. That's the reason why I preferred Doepfer one: 2x8 steps, even needing external modules. A bit awful, but... Again, I'll think about it and see what's more out there.

the whole thing is a specialised analogue computer... that some components are digital is irrelevant imo - use whatever modules are best for the purpose/function... sometimes it will be analogue, sometimes it will be digital...

so I wouldn't get hung up on analog v digital - there are lots of great digital modules... digital sound sources sound great through analog filters, digital sequencers are not in the audio path... and digital effects can get you a lot of options (& therefore potentially more interesting results) for less space and cash than analog ones (in a lot of cases)

if you're not going to use a DAW (in terms of modular I only use mine for recording and sync - so everything is in time, but I do also use soft synths and record guitars, vocals etc with it and edit, process and mix in there too) then I'd get a clock source - unless you already have a clock! as I said, you'll want a quantizer, a clock and probably the controller for the a-155, if you decide to stick with it & possibly a second a-155 (& probably another sequencer and a precision adder or 2 - for transposition)

middle row:

a lot of filters... but no other effects, I'd swap some out... add a multi-effect unit... an fx aid pro possibly 2... if 2 I'd only get 1 pro - the pro can be used as a cheat sheet for the other - delay and reverb (at a minimum) is a useful combination

Haha! I have just seen the Aid pro, and it is a patology of mine... I hate digital screens haha. Whatever, I'll check modules like those! Thank you again! Of course they are missing!

in this case the screen on the fx aid pro makes it 1000 * more useful than it's little brothers - a bank of LED indicators is horrible as it's difficult to remember which algo is where....

I'd not spend money on a b-company fixed filter bank... if I wanted something similar I'd wait and buy a better one at a later date... I'd put a matrix mixer in it's place

Sure you are right!

the 2 mixers and 2 mults next to each other will be annoying... I'd also replace one of the mixers with a happy nerding 3 * MIA - not only can it mix, but it also can be used for attenuation/attenuversion/offset - which is incredibly useful to have (& yes I know that Maths has these - but you will almost definitely want to use them whilst you are using maths for something more interesting)

About the order... there will be too much variability in the next month haha, and probably years haha. Buy I'll consider the change! And the offset was needed and forgotten! Thanks again.

do you really need 2 adsrs? I'd look for a dual in the same space... or one that's voltage controlled, oroften less complex envelope generators work well in modular... ADs for example...

Good point. I'll check!

not only are there some adsrs that are voltage controlled, there are some that have gate outputs per stage... also really useful....

ah some vcas... not enough... get at least a quad cascading one... a veils clone, perhaps... vcas are for cv as well as audio... and even for audio they are for more than just shaping notes...

I think I don't appreciate them yet, but I'll consider all recommendations... all of you point that out like if I was crazy haha. I am, but I'll do!

vcas are needed if you want to shape notes - oscillator -> vca in/ envelope generator -> vca cv in/vca out -> filter (or filter before vca)... but they are also useful for controlling levels over time, gently varying the gain of a drone and adjusting the amount of a modulation signal being sent to a modulation input (& lots of other things) - they're modular synth 101 - it doesn't mean you absolutely need them, but they do make life much simpler... unless you have lots of hands to control many different knobs at the same time...

bottom row:

a-119 - it's useful, but noisy

Will check replacements.

I like the befaco instrument interface... I have both and use both... it's not that the a-119 is bad, it's just not clean... the befaco is much cleaner...

dual slew - might be redundant (& I dislike this word with regard to modular) - maths is a dual slew! I'd drop this
ring mod... better to get the dual vc polarizer... it can do ring mod and other things and it's the same size...
maths (great module - download the 'maths illustrated manual' (work through it multiple times thinking about what, why & how) and a single lfo are not really enough modulation sources... I'd get a batumi & expander...
personally I'm not a big fan of scopes... I have an es8 so could use 1 in vcv rack and I also have 1 in the fx aid pro... neither of which i use that much... you can listen to any cv... just send it through a vcos pitch input...

I'll do! And I see the necessity of seeing the waves to understand what a module is doing, so for me an oscilloscope is a must haha.

that's also another reason why the fx aid pro is useful... it includes a basic scope... which you can use whilst processing another signal...

mixer - you have all those filters - eq is a bit redundant (urgh) - I'd get a better mixer... again b-company (I try as much as humanly possible to avoid giving money to Uli!) if you want relatively inexpensive & absolutely must have EQ... then I'd go for an external mixer... I have an inexpensive yamaha mg12, which handles modular levels well - I wouldn't get one with fx built in though, just the base model - this will also save some rack space

Sure! My idea was to have a nice output and didn't find any of my likings... that was just to know I need it haha. Sorry!

I have a tesseract modular tex-mix - which is expandable (4 mono or stereo channels at a time)... and inexpensive... currently mine is 12 mono channels & 4 stereo channels - it has cue, mutes, vcas (mono channels), headphones and 2 send/returns - all very useful features!!!

remember you don't have to buy all of this at once - buy the case and a minimum viable synth and add modules slowly, one or two at a time... you will learn more... and get more from your modular... plus as no plan survives contact with the enemy, which in this case is you... your plans/wants/needs will change over time... & the slower you go, the fewer side tracks you'll take - as you will find out what you are missing and then add it, rather than buying modules you find you don't use...

My economy allows me to mount it at a not very fast pace... so I considered it from the beginning haha. Since I have the 2600, I'll buy what can be an extra to it and increase it slowly!
-- sambarroso

addendum to above... as I had the edit window open overnight and didn't see the other replies before posting...

lots of good advice from others above!

I see you are building your own case:

what are you considering for a power supply? I really like the befaco excalibus - relatively cheap and quiet (most of my diy cases use these) - it's also available DIY - simple but tedious build (lots of power headers with 16 pins each) I'd recommend 1 per 6u...

I'd build 6u cases rather than 9u or a 9u and a 6u - all my DIY cases are 9u and they're a bit unwieldy... personally I find 6u/104hp as the best compromise... also it means that you can have 1 case vertical (or at an angle - 9u) and 1 horizontal in front (which I find easiest)

2600 is a good layout... I do something similar... sound sources at the top, modulation sources below that, then sound momdifiers, then control/sequencing/end of chain mixer at the bottom/front - utilities distrributed throughout

NP... what I do is copy url & paste into post...

whilst you seem to have at least managed to get a decent mix of sounds sources, sound modifiers, modualtion sources and utilities... there's a lot of things I'd do differently... see my signature for some hints...

top row:

doepfer are not well known for midi -> cv modules... I'd not worry about this to start with... ie I'd drop the module...

the oscillators you've chosen... I'd probably want a 3rd - something different - either as the source for FM on one of these, or as a separate sound source...

I'm not convinced by the audio divider... what's your imagined use case for this?

clock divider ok - I use my clock divider as a squarewave sub-bass... audio in, square wave out (/2 =-1ve, /4 =-2ve) -> vca & filter

not convinced by the sequencer... I think there are better options out there... so why this one? also NB it has no quantizer built in so you need either a dual one - or a sequencer module with quantisation built in... also needs a clock input... so either you need a sequencer with clock built in or you'll need an external clock - if you want to sync to a DAW, via midi you'd need one of the doepfer modules that specifies sync - ie not the one you chose - or a different midi->cv module (mutant brain - is a very good option) - or sync via audio (I use a kick sample) - also this sequencer massively benefits from pairing with the controller...

middle row:

a lot of filters... but no other effects, I'd swap some out... add a multi-effect unit... an fx aid pro possibly 2... if 2 I'd only get 1 pro - the pro can be used as a cheat sheet for the other - delay and reverb (at a minimum) is a useful combination

I'd not spend money on a b-company fixed filter bank... if I wanted something similar I'd wait and buy a better one at a later date... I'd put a matrix mixer in it's place

the 2 mixers and 2 mults next to each other will be annoying... I'd also replace one of the mixers with a happy nerding 3 * MIA - not only can it mix, but it also can be used for attenuation/attenuversion/offset - which is incredibly useful to have (& yes I know that Maths has these - but you will almost definitely want to use them whilst you are using maths for something more interesting)

do you really need 2 adsrs? I'd look for a dual in the same space... or one that's voltage controlled, oroften less complex envelope generators work well in modular... ADs for example...

ah some vcas... not enough... get at least a quad cascading one... a veils clone, perhaps... vcas are for cv as well as audio... and even for audio they are for more than just shaping notes...

bottom row:

a-119 - it's useful, but noisy

dual slew - might be redundant (& I dislike this word with regard to modular) - maths is a dual slew! I'd drop this

ring mod... better to get the dual vc polarizer... it can do ring mod and other things and it's the same size...

maths (great module - download the 'maths illustrated manual' (work through it multiple times thinking about what, why & how) and a single lfo are not really enough modulation sources... I'd get a batumi & expander...

personally I'm not a big fan of scopes... I have an es8 so could use 1 in vcv rack and I also have 1 in the fx aid pro... neither of which i use that much... you can listen to any cv... just send it through a vcos pitch input...

mixer - you have all those filters - eq is a bit redundant (urgh) - I'd get a better mixer... again b-company (I try as much as humanly possible to avoid giving money to Uli!) if you want relatively inexpensive & absolutely must have EQ... then I'd go for an external mixer... I have an inexpensive yamaha mg12, which handles modular levels well - I wouldn't get one with fx built in though, just the base model - this will also save some rack space

so a 1/2 decent job... it's very 'east coast' subtractive dual mono-synth like... could probably do with a few different modules added - some logic and

whilst I understand that a full 9u rack can seem expensive (& this is probably 1 of the least expensive I've seen) it's not that bad... especially when compared to a lot of other musical instruments - and definitely not when compared to professional level custom instruments - try checking out cello bows (good ones cost multiples of this rack) - or to a lot of other hobbies (golf, scuba diving, skiing etc etc)

it's always useful to remember, apart from the b-company all eurorack manufacturers are tiny companies with very small runs of modules (250 is a very big run for most of them) & they are often manufactured in EU or North America - which is why they might appear 'expensive' - they're not FMCG - they're more slow moving niche goods

remember you don't have to buy all of this at once - buy the case and a minimum viable synth and add modules slowly, one or two at a time... you will learn more... and get more from your modular... plus as no plan survives contact with the enemy, which in this case is you... your plans/wants/needs will change over time... & the slower you go, the fewer side tracks you'll take - as you will find out what you are missing and then add it, rather than buying modules you find you don't use...

sometimes the more expensive module is cheaper in the long run - sequencers are a good example - for example a used metropolix might be a better buy than the a-155, as a starter sequencer, as it includes an internal clock and has a quantizer built in... amongst a load of other features - or a used erica black sequencer... more channels - so still good if/when you get more voices in the future, plus it has a modulation lane on each channel, quantisation, midi in, more steps etc etc

a minimum viable synth is a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen... I'd add some basic utilities (the 3 * MIA, a quad cascading vca, a mult etc)

& the link....

cos jpgs are crap for this!

EDITED Sep 25th 2023, 21:23

Thanks for the input - I was worried about the LED menu and having to work out what effect was chosen. The pro looks fantastic and the demo's have been very enjoyable - so many options. The hp size is a worry at the moment as it's a bit of a beast but I hope to change my B - Brains for a smaller plaits clone and get some hp back.

I wouldn't go much smaller - a full size clone will save you 4hp... & I wouldn't go any smaller - otherwise you'll be into trimmers instead of proper pots and issues associated with them, plus poor ergonomics.... personally I wouldn't worry too much abou thtis - I'd put the money you'd spend on this towards a bigger case - and then not worry too much about the size of the modules - more about what they do...

What I have researched so far regarding effects modules has lead me to 2 options at the moment due to the hp size and possible cost.

FX AID XL from Happy Nerding Vs Endorphin.es Milky Way - both at 6hp

The Milky Way with 16 effects is half of the XL

The search will continue...
-- EuroBadger

I have both the fx aid xl and the pro...

the biggest advantage the fx aid has over the milky way is that there are 200 algos available to load into 32 slots... not just 32 algos... or 16 in the case of the milky way...

the xl is very frustrating to work with though due to the use of LEDs as indicators for which slot is selected and needing a pdf to determine which algo is loaded in which slot...

seriously the pro is worth the extra hp and cost... it has almost all the algos pre loaded and most importantly has a screen so you can tell which algo is selected.... amongst other more useful features...

the xl is a great 2nd fx aid... you can set the 1st 32 slots on both to be the same - so the pro is a cheat sheet...

it may be a case of wait for the second case before getting one...but it is worth it...

Ahh thise look great cheers. I realised I only actually would need one as the case actually can do 28 modules and I have 29 lol. Ill prob just chop a ribbon though.
-- Chromat1c

what do you mean by 'chop a ribbon'? I wouldn't cut one...

the simplest way to do what you want is to crimp an extra idc connector onto a longer existing ribbon cable... videos available on youtube - no need for specialist equiment - just the 10 pin idc connector & some gentle even pressure, from a vice (or a large book)... just make sure you have the connector the right way round (triangle to red line) and leave plenty of slack...

nb buying the idc connector may cost nearly as much as the pre-made cable, if that's all you are buying, & if you are in any way nervous about this... just spend the few quid on the pre-made cable...

EDITED Sep 23rd 2023, 13:28

I gefinitely agree with @Sweelinck, get a bigger case... and as you have the minibrute, I'd definitely recommend the rackbrute 6u... so they can be joined together as a single unit...

The problems with a smaller case like this are mostly that you will almost definitely want more modules very quickly... that's not to say that you'll want to fill the case in a week (you might), but you almost definitely will in the future...

I also somewhat agree with him on the modules are tailored towards particular genres, but I'm more of the thought that any module can be used for any genre... it's not the module that makes the music, it's the artist... but it is a good idea to indicate the sort of music you want to make...

now onto your choices of modules...

1 psychosis... why a stereo mixer? neither the minibrute or the hysteria & vcf combo are stereo... I guess (manual) panning and effects... but there's not a lot of control over either... better to split these 2 out and get something with cv-able panning... these are modules... better to have 1 module do 1 thing, why? so if you get bored or outgrow that 1 thing you can swap it... so better a mixer and an effects unit... for an effects module - the fx aid pro, is as good as anything for, price, size, sound quality and versatility... the smaller ones are ok.. but their interface is severely compromised by not having a display...

2 a doepfer dual adsr... why? what are you going to use the adsr for? using the filter as a pseudo vca? that takes 1 channel... so the other will be used for what?

3 hysteria... ok it's a vco... your only source of pitch information is the minibrute, which will already be quantized, so the quantize function is pointless, taking into account the rest of the modules present...

4 a filter ok

BUT what's missing... the important bits... particularly vcas and modulation at this stage...

for vcas: a quad cascading vca is a worthwhile investment (a veils clone for example) - it can also double up as a mono mixer... vcas are one of the fundamental building blocks of synthesis... they are massively important for note shaping and gain control within synthesizers and can also be used for modulation sources, to control the amount of modulation being sent to a module, with another modulation source (modulating modulation - a very powerful technique)

modulation: I'd rather have a decent quad lfo (batumi perhaps) or a good function generator (maths, perhaps) - or even better both - than an adsr in a limited set of modules to combine with a minibrute (the minibrute already has an adsr & no real way of creating a second gate to drive a second envelope generator)

maths - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' this is imo by far the most useful piece of documentation for eurorack modules... buy a maths and work your way through it... concentrating on what, why and how the patches work... this will not only introduce you to patch programming maths, but will also serve as a primer for patching modular synthesizers in general

if you only have the money for this case and this set f modules... I'd buy the rackbrute and a maths... you'll learn more and be able to do more... and then add a second voice in the future when you can afford one...

also take a look at my signature - read it, think about it, think some more, ask questions, think some more and then redesign your rack taking into account advice (not just mine), etc, or don't...

have you tried reflashing it?