Hi @dougie834,
It will be a huge help for other people who might be able to provide some assistance if you make your rack public (rather than private) and paste the URL of your rack's page directly into your post.
Also to clarify, do you already own all of these modules and have this much rackspace available?
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/wmd-sl3kt
Hi @Loersatz,
This may or may not be what you're looking for, but it came to mind for me when reading your post!
Edit: It is officially discontinued, but I believe I've still seen it in stock at some of the online shops.
Hello,
Here is an example of a setup that I think would be a fun way to fill out your case:
- Added Quadrax in there for some additional modulation sources. It has several different modes, including envelopes and LFOs. Just an all-around useful module to have.
- Added the Desmodus Versio in there to have a versatile reverb effect. The Versio platform also allows you to easily swap the firmware for something different, like a delay or distortion, for example. This would allow you to try out several different module types without any additional cost.
- Added the 3x MIA in there as an additional way to mix your oscillator's waveforms and/or modulation sources, as well as control modulation levels, which is really handy with a module like the Versio. 3x MIA is one of the best modules in all of eurorack, in my opinion.
- Had two HP left and I thought a dedicated headphone out (the HPO) would be nice to have.
The Quadrax and Desmodus are a bit more expensive, but they are worth it, in my opinion. I see them as modules to keep for life, as they will always be useful in some way or other. Same goes for the 3x MIA.
I hope some of that is helpful! Let me know if you have any questions.
-Chace
Hello @melero,
Here is an example of a rack that sort of hybridizes what @JimHowell1970 suggested and what you originally presented, as I'm guessing those were modules that are appealing to you.
I did swap out some modules that I thought might be better options, in my opinion: MIDI Thing -> Mutant Brain, Quadra and expander -> Quadrax and expander (Quadra is out of production), Magneto -> Sealegs (again, just an opinion, but I think Sealegs will be more interesting and friendly, especially when starting out). I also added a Mix 3 (to mix Shapshifter's waveforms before going into the filter), and an Out V3 (not everyone thinks an "output" module is necessary, but I do like them personally, and the headphone out and cue option is nice too). I think this build will give you an interesting and fun synth voice to really delve deep into for a long time.
You could, of course, strip things back more at first to make the setup simpler and/or less expensive. For example, take out the Quadrax and expander, take out the Mutant Brain if MIDI connectivity isn't an absolute must have, swap out Shapeshifter, Evolution, and Sealegs for less expensive/simpler options, like the excellent ones Jim suggested in his post.
I hope some of that is helpful!
Hello,
I'm writing the following assuming that we're talking about a V/Oct pitch CV.
You wouldn't be able to quantize the Mimetic Digitalis's CV without a quantizer. By offsetting MD's output with Voltage Block's output, you are doing just that: offsetting MD's unquantized output with VB's output. This would not quantize MD's output.
You're second idea will work though. Since VB's sequence is already quantized, you can offset/transpose that sequence with MD's output. So the melody is coming from VB, and MD is transposing it up and down. If this is what you want to do, then @farkas is right, you will want a precision adder.
I hope that helps, and I'd be happy to answer any further questions if I'm able to.
-Chace
Hello,
I'd recommend looking at Yester Versio from Noise Engineering. It feels like a good, "basic" starting point from their delay options. And if you want to try something a bit more experimental, you can easily switch the firmware to a different Versio, like Electus that was mentioned above, or Imitor or Melotus.
Intellijel also just announced Sealegs recently. The demos sound great, and I'm thinking I might give up my Magneto for one as Sealegs has a digital tape delay mode, and I've never really gotten along with the Magneto all that well (probably my issues, not the Magneto's).
I would recommend against a Beads for your first delay. I haven't had the time to get super familar with mine, but it's definitely not what I think to go to for most delay-type sounds.
I hope some of that is useful to someone!
Chace
A few things that you might consider:
Some of those may be less expensive to try out in comparison to replacing the power supply.
If you determine that it isn't the output module/jack or a specific pair of headphones, I would look into getting a power conditioner first, as that will probably be useful to have around at some point, even if it doesn't solve this particular noise problem. Intuitively, I also think that using a linear power conditioner would produce a similar result to switching to a linear PSU, but admittedly, I'm not an expert on these things by any means, and I very well could be wrong about that assumption.
Noise filtering bus boards would probably be less expensive than a new power supply, but also wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. I would recommend looking into getting some of those (if you aren't already using some with the power supply in question) if you think that a particular module is producing the noise or causing interference with other modules on the same power supply.
I don't have any experience with Meanwell power supplies, so I can't comment on any particularities of those.
I hope that some of that might help!
Darn, I'm bummed to hear that it still didn't work out =( Hopefully you'll have better luck with it on a different power supply!
Yes, I didn't consider module depth for a specific case. It looks like a 4MS Pod20 can support modules up to 34mm deep.
I figured that anything in the rack you posted was fair game for this hypothetical 20HP system.
20HP is a very significant restraint... are you planning on using this small case with others at some point? I personally understand and appreciate the attractiveness of small cases for focusing on and learning specific modules, but 20HP feels much too small as a standalone unit. Do you already own a case or any of these modules? Or are you in the beginning stages of planning out a system? If you are just getting into eurorack, I would recommend getting a larger single case, rather than several miniature ones. This is advice that you will hear quite frequently on these forums.
Thank you for the interesting challenge. This was the most functional and interesting combination that I could come up with in the 20HP limit.
Hello All,
I wanted to give a shout-out to Noise Engineering (NE) for a recent positive experience I had with them. I purchased a used NE module on Reverb, but when it arrived, I discovered that a trimmer-pot on the back of the module was partially broken off. I contacted NE to ask them if they thought I'd be able to repair it myself. Kris (their Doer of Many Things) told me that I could ship it to them for a fix and recalibration, at no cost, even though it wasn't under warranty, as it was a used product and I wasn't the original purchaser. This is an example of an amazing company that cares about their products and the people who use them. So thank you Kris and the Noise Engineering team for helping me out! You all are awesome!
I want to open up this thread for others to post their positive experiences with modular companies and makers. I invite you to share!
Hi @USSAL,
Here is a suggestion of what you could do. I purposely kept the same case size, power supply, and general vibe that you started with. To me this feels like a fun basic subtractive synth setup. @JimHowell1970 mentioned a lot of good points that needed to be addressed, and I think this example rack takes care of those pretty well for the size of case we're working with. I focused on using similar but more compact modules or ones that provide more functionality than those that were in the original rack. I also added some desirable functionality that wasn't present: mixers, attenuators/attenuverters, S&H/T&H, clock source, slew limiter, noise source, more VCAs, LFOs, envelope generators... and a bitchin' reverb.
There's a lot that I could say about the choices I made, so let me know if you have any questions. But here are some quick notes: The Disting can act as a quantizer or many other utilities that you might find you need. I think it might be difficult to get the original Polivoks filter that you had in the original rack, so I replaced it with Erica Synths' newer one.
I hope some of that helps!
Chace
Hello @Homunkulus,
The first thing I would do is double-check that all power connections in the system are attached securely (no loose connections between each module and its power cable, each power cable's connection to the power supply ribbons, the ribbon cables' connections to the power supply, and the external power connection to the power supply) and oriented the correct way at those connections (if the ribbons don't have shrouded headers, then make sure that the red stripe is on the same side as -12V).
The second thing I would check is the power specs of the specific power supply you have (mA available on each of the +12, -12, and +5V rails) and compare that to the total load that all of the modules you have connected to it in your case. The load of all of your modules together needs to be below what your power supply can provide with some extra headroom. The amounts I hear people mention most often for this excess headroom is 20 - 30% of your power supply's maximum output. For example, if your power supply can provide a maximum of 1000 mA on each of the three power rails (1000mA @ +12V/1000 mA @ -12V/1000mA @ +5V) then you should only connect modules that need 700 - 800 mA total on each of those rails. To my understanding, this is because many modules draw more mA when first powered on than what they need to function after being powered on (which is likely what the specs provided for most modules are). Also, if your power supply relies on using an external power brick, make sure it has the appropriate wattage/voltage/amperage specs for the power supply. If the power supply accepts a range of voltages, you can try a power brick with a lower voltage within that range to get a higher amperage output (but the wattage must remain the same) Amps x Volts = Watts. It can also be useful to know if the power supply you are using splits up its power output in any way. For example, if there are two headers for ribbon cables on your supply, it is possible that the power supply's total output is divided between those two headers, so you may need to redistribute which modules are connected to each of the ribbons for a more even distribution of power draw. All of these specs should be available in the manual for your power supply.
I hope some of that helps!
Chace
This is from the manual:
"...with a range of 22 Hz to 22 kHz in the audio frequency mode.
In low frequency mode, the total range is
2.4 mHz (a period of 7 minutes) to 180 Hz, with
1 Hz when the knob is centred."
In other words, Orbit 3's LOW mode can get you into audio rates (up to 180 Hz), but I don't know how that compares to Zlob's module and if that is an improvement for your purposes.
Hello,
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but maybe check out Joranalogue's Orbit 3:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/joranalogue-audio-design-orbit-3
Here are some other EGs that I would recommend looking into if you cannot find a Quadrax:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/make-noise-maths-white-knobs
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tiptop-audio-buchla-281t
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/4ms-company-pingable-envelope-generator
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/befaco-rampage
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/xaoc-devices-zadar
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/klavis-quadigy
Yes, absolutely! The Voltage Block will definitely get the 510 moving! But I would still highly recommend getting some envelope generators (EGs) in the near future though, as they will give you dynamic movement for your voice that will be be hard to achieve with the Voltage Block alone. I would want EGs as the primary modulator of the filter and VCA, and then use the Voltage Block as the excessive frosting and sprinkles on top of that.
Hello @Tchnondz,
Roland 510: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/roland-system-500-510
Vermona meloDICER: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/vermona-melodicer
It looks like 510 doesn't have its own envelope generator built in, so you will need a separate module for that if you are going for a more traditional subtractive synth voice. You can still send the meloDICER's gate out to the mod inputs on the 510's filter and VCA, but it will be very abrupt sounding. You will probably want a couple of envelope generators (and maybe an LFO or two) to really get things moving in the 510. That'll give you a lot more sound shaping ability and variety of sounds out of the 510. Something like Intellijel's Quadrax would be a great option for this, in my opinion.
Intellijel Quadrax: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-quadrax-
I hope some of that helps!
- Chace
I’m not sure if these are exactly what you want, but I would suggest looking into Noise Engineering’s Vice Virga and WMD’s Sequential Switch Matrix as potential ways to get to where you want.
EDIT: Have you considered an arpeggiator that allows you to step through arpeggios with triggers? Shakmat Modular’s Bard Quartet accommodates four independent channels of this (the quantizer in for each channel becomes a trigger in). You can set the scale and arpeggiator pattern independently for each channel. It is also quite easy to switch between saved scales and edit the current one. Each channel can alternatively be used as a quantizer as well with the possibility of changing notes with a trigger at the gate in, which can be turned on or off for each channel.
I know this isn’t exactly what you were looking for, but perhaps you could get similar results, depending on what you’re going for.
There is also ADDAC System’s Intuitive Quantizer that allows you to trigger note changes for each of the four channels completely independently, but it doesn’t have many of the other nice features and UI that the Bard has.
I’m thinking mix your signals together (and adjust to taste at will), feed them into the quantizer, then trigger the note changes with the quantizer.
Hello @liquidcolor,
Since you are looking to hear thoughts on the build, I'll share with you the two things that stood out to me the most:
I see 11 dual passive multiple modules between the two cases (if I'm counting correctly). That's 22 1-to-3 passive multiples! To me, that seems quite excessive, especially considering that Tiptop Audio stackable cables exist. Personally, I rarely split an output signal to more than two inputs, so I'm essentially replacing one of the 1-to-3 multiples and three normal cables with a single normal cable and one stackable cable. (But I've also never used a rack this big.) It also avoids having large clusters of cables at the multiples and additionally having to route the signal to and from the multiple, which may or may not be near the relevant output and inputs. Overall, using splitting cables saves rack space and money, even if you do have to use a second normal or stackable cable to split to a third input (remember that you can split the signal out of each end of the stackable). But like @farkas mentions, do what works for you. You may have specific plans or needs for your rack that I or others may not understand.
In my view, there is a shortage of sub-mixers and attenuators between the two cases. For example, where are you mixing the outputs of all of your oscillators and other sound sources? I see two Mixups and one Triplatt for sub-mixers. (The two VCA modules also mix, but I would think you'd mostly want to use those for other purposes?) In a smaller case, this would be plenty, but in a rack this size, and considering how many sound sources and filters you have, I would want more mixing power. Dedicated attenuators are also a really big deal to me. In your rack I only see the single Triplatt for this. How are you attenuating the signals going into the CV inputs of the 8-channel Doepfer VCA module and other inputs that don't have dedicated attenuators built in? Some of this may be solved by how you intend to use the Doepfer VCAs in conjunction with the Michigan Synth Works Fader Bank.
My solution: replace nine of the passive mult modules (18 HP total) with three Triplatt and/or Happy Nerding's 3x MIA modules. These are both endlessly useful modules that will give you both more sub-mixing and attenuation capability.
I hope some of that helps in some way!
Chace
Thanks for sharing your patches and ideas! Lots of great tones in there that I would like to explore myself.
You also have a very nice voice to listen to. How would you describe your accent?
Cool! Tides is easily one of the most neglected modules I have - you've convinced me I need to spend some more time with it!
That looks fun! Do you primarily use Tides as a sound source in this case?
Hey @jdesole,
My first impression is that you're trying to fit too much into a rack this size. Personally I would only go for one or two (maybe three, depending on the setup) voices in a case this size. I would cut the number of sound sources and filters in half, at least.
I think you may be misunderstanding Harmonaig's capabilities. From my understanding it is primarily a chord quantizer, not a sequencer. Also, Pressure Points only steps through sequences on it's own with the Brains expander module.
You will probably want to look into alternate VCA modules in place of Optomix and X-Pan, as they are not "traditional" VCAs. Optomix is a low pass gate, so it will alter what you're sending through it in ways other than amplitude (which you may or may not want). I find X-Pan inconvenient to use a lot of the time due to all three channels being routed to a single output. And the first two channels are crossfaders (but can still be used in a VCA-like way). You should look into Intellijel's Quad VCA or Veils (2020) for more traditional and denser "VCA" functionality, in addition to your Doepfer VCA module.
I think you should strongly consider adding some mixers and envelopes to the rack.
Those are just some major starting points, but I hope some of that helps!
-Chace
I've never used either of the Verbos oscillators (though I would be very interested in trying out the Harmonic Oscillator someday), but I do think the Verbos Complex Oscillator is very similar to the Make Noise DPO, as far as layout and features. I think you would be able to achieve a greater diversity of sound by keeping the HO paired with one CO, rather than having two COs. I don't think you would be gaining much more capability by adding a second CO, but that comes back to how you plan on using them in your system. If it were me, I would keep the HO and CO that you already have. However, if you are looking to swap out one of your oscillators, I would recommend the Frap Tools Brenso over the Verbos CO, as it is a very feature-rich CO. It is also slightly less expensive and smaller than the Verbos one. I replaced my DPO with a Brenso, and I am happy with it, but be aware that it has EXTREMELY high power requirement specs. It's given some of my power supplies problems in the past.
Thanks for the reply, @Lugia. That totally makes sense with audio going through an exponential VCA! I hadn't thought of it that way before, but that's exactly what the signal flow is like on most non-modular subtractive synths: no attenuator on the final audio VCA, just the final output volume level after that.
You're welcome, @ascrawa! I'm glad you found some of that helpful. =]
-Chace
Hey @Lugia, thanks for taking the time to poke at the rack!
My thought on the 333 was to have both a buffered mult and unity mixer if wanting to use both Plaits and Twin Waves together for the same voice. That was also the purpose of having the DTM directly after that, but it only has three inputs, hence the 333 before that if wanting to use all five outputs from the Plaits and Twin Waves. It did feel a bit large at 6HP for that purpose though. I could have easily accomplished that in 4HP, or just had a second 4HP mixer and a buff mult at 2HP.
I agree, a Steppy would be better than the RCD, but yeah, not enough space. Glad to still have the Fractio Solum in there though to use with the Doepfer S&H and to sync the Mimeophon.
VCAs without attenuators have always seemed odd to me, as I always want to attenuate the CV signal. I do understand it's nice when space is limited. How do you typically use them? Do you generally attenuate before with a different module (like with the 321 and Maths, in this particular rack), or just use the full raw CV in some cases (which always feel too crazy for me)?
Definitely digging the addition of the PWR Checker and Qx.
Thanks again for the reply!
-Chace
Decided to give it a go myself. I tried to keep as many of your original modules in it as I could. It actually looks quite similar to one of my own cases, so some of my own preferences and approaches show through. That certainly doesn't mean that my choices are "right" or "optimal", and probably means that you would (and should) make your own further edits to it to fit what you want it to do and how you want to use it. It's just a layout to consider. Lugia and Jim, and anyone else, feel free to critique it too. I'm curious to hear what you think of this particular build as well. Feel free to ask about any of the particular choices I made. If I decided to come back to it later I would probably end up making some changes myself. I hope this helps in some way!
Hello @ascrawa,
In the case that you might not already be aware of this, I thought I'd mention that the Westlicht PER|FORMER is offered as a DIY build only, not as a complete module from Westlicht. In addition, it is only offered as a bare PCB and faceplate - I haven't seen it sold as a complete kit anywhere (in other words, you would have to source all of your own components). I don't know if you have any previous soldering or electronics experience, but it is stated as being a project for experienced builders: the PCB appears to require a hefty amount of surface-mount soldering, which is something that I personally don't feel ready to attempt even after completing about 10 through-hole DIY module projects of my own. Of course, you can buy one built by a third-party individual, but I would be strongly hesitant to do that personally, unless the builder has proven themselves to be absolutely capable.
As far as thoughts on the rack build you've presented, I agree with a lot of what @Lugia and @JimHowell1970 have already mentioned above. Some specific suggestions/thoughts I have on it are:
I see those as some starting points for a revision of the rack, but certainly not a final or comprehensive set of suggestions. You'll find that there will be further refinements to make as you change things up, especially in the utility module department.
I hope you find some of that useful!
-Chace
Hello Blackmaul,
If it were me, and trying to keep the spirit of what your goals are (drone-synth voice + sample manipulation through Morphagene), I would do something like this:
(May need to click the picture to see the most recent arrangement.)
Here are my thoughts:
I'm thinking the Cursus Iteritas Percido is a bit too big for the case and freeing up some room for other functionality would be a good idea. As far as I understand, Cursus Iteritas is a stripped down version of CIP that's less than half its size in HP. I think you would still be able to get plenty of the gritty tones you're after with the CI. Also, adding a flexible filter like Belgrad after it will further allow a massive range of other tones.
The 1U Row:
a. The 1U Golden Master felt like it could be swapped out for something more generally useful.
b. I'm a huge fan of Intellijel's 1U Quadratt (and the Duatt when you have a little bit of extra space to fill in). Here I'm seeing the Quadratt as a way to more precisely attenuate modulation going into CI and Belgrad and/or mixing the outs of CI, Belgrad (as kind of a dry/wet level with CI or using Belgrad as a resonant oscillator on its own), and Krach (if you want to add noise).
c. Added Krach to use as a gritty modulation source or to mix in as audio like mentioned above.
d. Kept the 1U Stereo In module as a way to get external sound into Morphagene. If that's not how you're planning on using Morphagene, then I, personally, would probably swap it out for a different 1U tile.
e. Added the Sloth Chaos for smooth randomness to the drone, sample manipulation, or effects.
f. I've never used nor am I very familiar with Ornament and Crime, but I would want to use it a source of modulation in this build - probably LFOs. There may be more HP-efficient options out there for this purpose.
g. I'm not sure whether it's possible to place the MIDI and Out modules where I've put them, but that seems ideal to me - having the Out at the far right by the final mixer (see below) and the MIDI above the synth voice.
Quadrax is a very flexible source of modulation - something that I think you need more of in the build. It would be ideal to have at least two of it's channels as envelopes (to filter and VCA) if you want to try a more traditional subtractive synth voice architecture at some point with the CI/Belgrad.
Keeping your core of Morphagene and QPAS. I interpreted your inclusion of the QPAS (other than you already own it) as a way to further process the Morphagene's output. Both are stereo, so you could have some interesting things going on there.
Swapped out the Black Hole DSP2 for FX Aid XL (it's less expensive, less HP, and better rated).
Added the 4X Stereo Mix as a compact stereo final output mixer before the 1U Out module. That way you can keep your stereo things in stereo while mixing with your synth voice.
Swapped out the Black Quad VCA2 for Veils (2020). It's slightly less expensive, same HP, and has additional functionality.
Added the RND STEP as another source of randomness. I have no experience with the Disting (I'm not a fan of multi-mode modules, in general), but I think some of it's functions could create interesting things with the RND STEP, so I put those two next to each other.
And sadly, I would do away with the music box module. I could see some really interesting things going on with it and the Morphagene, but I would rather use the HP for something else. You could always sample it for use in the Morphagene without having it in the final rack.
Overall, it looks like a fun build. And, of course, this is just how I would do it. And I certainly wouldn't limit myself to patching it only in the ways mentioned above - those are just starting points. I hope some of that might help you!
Best regards,
Chace
I'm not especially familiar or experienced with the "Serge" format, but would some sort of compromise or transition period be useful? Say you change the "Serge" universe to be labelled as "4U (Serge)" or "4U (formerly Serge)" or "4U (FKA Serge)", and then perhaps later on change it to simply "4U" once users have become accustomed to seeing it presented that way? Or name it something new entirely like "FKAS", short for "formerly known as Serge"? Just some ideas.
