User Posts

@kieranjonesmusic Looking at all the space that Intelljel scales takes up in your first and last versions, I wonder if you know that Pamela's New Workout can generate signals which are already quantised to different scales, so this module may be completely unnecessary. Of course, if you want to quantise other things Pam cannot do that, but I would still recommend something smaller.

@Exposure -- thanks! Mostly of the sequences were prepared in advance so I know I had at least some combinations that would work. The the drum and percussion parts were reprogrammed while playing, not that they are exactly sophisticated! (I only realised after I was done that one of the melody lines is uncomfortably close to Blue Monday....)

I won't edit your rack, but here is one in the minimum viable party style that worked pretty well. Maybe it's actually sub-viable because my mixer and effects are outboard, but I still have room to add them if I needed to! You find some videos of this in action in "You" section of the forum.

I have included Pamela and Ornament and Crime for Sequencing, quantized note generation and other functionality (Hemisphere firmware on the O&C)
-- benjaminjamesgreen

Glaring omission : switches. Pam's and OC gives you 12 channels of clocked triggers and modulation -- that's great (although possibly not enough considering you have five voices in here). But now you want the kick drum to go to half-time for a while. How do you this? From the look of your rack you have to go menu diving into Pam or OC, or start repatching while you're playing. Not a good look either way.

If you make copious use of AB-switches, switched multiples, switched OR-combiners etc etc you can redirect and recombine your control signals around the rack. I guess from the phrase "Minimum Viable Party" you know mylarmelodies on YouTube: check out his video on switched multiples; he covers about half the reasons you will want these.

I suggest you would also want at least one envelope generator (for MCO's amp envelope), and probably a second for the filter. Yes you can generate envelopes from Pam but again, you are going to want to tweak them while playing so having actual knobs to turn will help a lot. For reasons of tweakability and control you will also want some attenuverters/offsets and maybe a CV mixer.

@WAVNE -- this is super cool. Is there any chance you will make more of them? Asking for a friend.

In this case though, what other modules could I add to create something interesting?

It depends what you are interested in! If you click through the modules here you will find many video clips showing what they do. Alternatively maybe try VCV Rack and experiment with some things to find out what you like?

• Can I use the A-138o also as an attenuator before the befaco output?

Yes, but there is not much point, since the Befaco module has an output attenuator.

• Why I need also an attenuator for input? In this system I have only midi as input signal, I'm probably wrong but I want to understand.

For an audio input to the modular you will need an amplifier of some kind, not an attenuator, otherwise the audio will be much too quiet compared to the modular gear. For MIDI input this is not relevant, you just need a MIDI-CV converter.

• On the Digitone or Octatrack you can sequence multiple tracks so what can I use to split my midis into cv?

It depends on the converter, but different MIDI channels or cc messages could be different CV signals.

On the mixer, there a few comments :
1. The Doepfer A-138p is only half a mixer; you also need the A-138o for outputs.
2. Four channels is certainly not too much, maybe not enough as your system grows.
3. If you are using other instruments as well as the modular, you are probably better off doing the mixing on a "normal" mixer, outside of the rack. Eurorack signals are much higher than line level and it's easier to turn down the modular to line level, than to boost the other instruments to euro level. Eurorack mixers are also very expensive compared to normal mixers.

Sequencing from the Electron machines will surely work well. I don't know the Doepfer MIDI-CV interface but it does not have very many outputs, so you will quickly reach its limits. And by quickly I mean immediately: you could control one voice with this. You might look at some options with more outputs; Expert Sleepers make some very popular options.

More generally, this is small case, so you would do well to consider the size of the modules you are putting in there. There are small alternatives for many. Mostly obviously, the multiples have no controls, so why not choose a 2hp sized version? Many manufacturers make these. Same question about the ADSR and the attenuators.

As it stands, this set up is a one-oscillator monosynth. For this purpose you need two envelopes : one for the filter and one for the VCA, but you only have one. If you want to combine envelopes with your LFO you also need a CV mixer. The Happy Nerding 3xMIA or Befaco A*B+C are good options but there are many others.

On the other hand, can this do anything your Analogue Rytm can't? That's a genuine question -- I don't now the capabilities of that machine. Did you consider any semi-modulars? Moog Mother-32 or Behringer Neuron are much more capable than the rack you present above, and also cost less. I would consider a bit more what you want to add to your existing music, and start your rack from that.

And here's the video.

I had some camera issues so there is ~10 minute of blackout in the middle. Sorry about that!

Other point is a lot of modules can have different functions, but not at once.
-- zuggamasta

Exactly. The existence of Disting is why this feature won't work.

@lugia -- I remember a long post you made a while ago called something like "Why you shouldn't get into modular". This should be a sticky in the forum. Does that count as a feature request?

I think you'd be better off just asking actual people (possibly on this forum) regarding the specific rack and genre(s) of music
-- JimHowell1970

Yeah, but with all the love in the world, tell me if this scenario seems familiar to you:

newbie : "What do you think of my choice of modules? I'm trying to make genre music, a bit like artist. Am I heading in the right direction?"

modulargrid, in unison : "GET A BIGGER RACK"

Happy new year everyone! And thanks for the the kind words; glad you enjoyed the music.

@troux - I'm very inspired by MylarMelodies approach. I think the key is to have lots of small pieces which can be combined in different ways.

@sacguy71 : the short description of the recording is that everything goes into a mixer and the stereo out from the mixer goes into the DAW. Afterwards, in Logic, I make it a bit louder but nothing fancy : whatever compressor preset sounds good, then a peak limiter. (Actually I make it a lot louder : the raw recording still has > 10dB of headroom)

The long description of the recording is : I have three audio lines out of the modular (Kick, Synth, Hats) which go into the mixer, as does the keyboard. On mixer sends I have delay, reverb and the Filterbank, each coming back into the mixer on its own channel. The kick gets its bass EQ'd up a bit, and everything else gets a dramatic reduction in the bass band. Kick and hats go to the main mix; everything goes to a bus for some gentle side-chain compression key from the kick. (You can hear this quite clearly on the pads near the start.) That sub-mix rejoins the main mix. While playing I adjust the levels of the delay and the Filterbank, but otherwise don't touch the mixer.

The main sequencer is the Beatstep Pro, although some sequences are generated by Pamela's New Workout. I use an OR Combiner
to direct trigger/gate sequences from various sources to the open hat and the Entity. Triggers for the closed hat and the kick come straight from the BSP. Additional triggers from BSP go to Pique, which is set up as two AR envelopes wiggling parameters of the Entity. The two pitch channels of the BSP go into the switched multiple so they can easily be directed to different places. One velocity channel from the BSP modulates the cut off of Font. Some manual wiggling from the Tetrapad. This probably makes more sense if you look at the rack :)

I feel like I'm only scratching the surface of what this rig can do. I didn't use Disting at all. I didn't use the Doepfer LPG at all. I used a grand total of 4 melodic sequences on the BSP and only 4 drum lines. All the modules keep doing the same job throughout the track, especially the BIA is very under-utilised. The only thing I feel that I might need to take this further is more switches!

Now this is along one - 42 minutes! The first time I've tried to play a whole set this long. If you feel like dancing your way into 2021, this might help! Assuming you like minimalistic 145bpm acid techno that is. Just pretend you're in a basement with 500 sweaty people and no fire exit.

You can hear :
* Noise Engineering Basimilus Iteritas Alter : the kick and nothing else.
* Tiptop Hats909 : the hats!
* The magnificent SSF Entity Percussion : everything else, sometimes assisted by Nano Modules Font and the Sherman Filterbank, and lots of modulation.
* Oh, the pads at the beginning are from an Ensoniq ESQ1, played badly with one hand.

I have a video which I will post once it is done uploading!

Nice one @troux!

I second the recommendation of Insides -- one of the all time great records in electronic music.

Press record on Ableton, then press play on the modular, and that’s it!
-- clivevass

So when you "press play on the modular" which module are you actually pressing play on? In my set up that button is on Pamela's New Workout, which also has Clock and Run inputs which can be used to control it externally. If I wanted to control it from my computer, lacking DC-coupled outputs which as Lugia suggested is surely The Right Thing, I would just send a click track to that clock input. It would probably need some fiddling to work but people used to use the 808 rimshot to sync old analogue gear, and I can't imagine that new gear is worse!

I never do this -- Pam is always the master clock for me. You could also try it this way. Make Ableton follow the master clock from the modular, assuming your modular brain can send clock (over MIDI perhaps?).

Thanks @Exposure! I figure if you don't get crazy at some point, why bother making music at all? Although it usually takes me a while to get there.

The DFAM is a great machine. It's the whole reason I got into this modular synthesis business in the first place. I got the DFAM and realised I could really enhance it with just a few modules... and now I have a crippling Eurorack habit.

Without knowing more about your modular setup it's hard to give useful suggestions of how to sync it to Ableton. How do you normally control it?

If you just need a clock output from the DAW, trying making an audio click track in Ableton and sending that to the modular. It might work!

Thanks Garfield!

The Werkstatt is very fun, surprisingly many different sounds are possible, and they are all good. It would be nice if it was bit more polished as product (e.g. I read that the VFO and VCF outputs are not at the correct levels for Eurorack although I haven't tested this myself.)

As for the DFAM, well the kids are just going to have to learn to play nicely together!

Hi Lugia,

Yes, it's not ideal -- I have one module from 2hp and I'd prefer not to get any more because it's just too uncomfortable to use. I expect I will end up buying Stages because it ticks quite a lot of boxes for me, but I was hoping to learn if anyone had produced any clever solutions to my problem. Seems like the answer so far is "not exactly" although the Hikari Triple AD was a pretty cool discovery!

Incidentally the module (which I already have) that comes closest to what I want is Pique, 4hp version of Mutable Peaks. The cables are all together at the bottom out of the way, and the knobs are big enough, and you rarely have to press the tiny buttons. When I bought it, I thought it would do many jobs for me, but it's basically always used as two AR envelopes...

As for Blip/Radar : Woah.

Unfortunately the ergonomics of the rack are not the only ones in play : there is also the ergonomics of the rather small room I practice, record, and nowadays also work in. Maybe once I get my big house in the country, and I can dedicate an entire wall to modular like Hans Zimmer I can start thinking about 36hp modules -- but probably not before!

EDITED Dec 30th 2020, 04:22

Hey Garfield,
Unfortunately the Doepfer - A-141-4 is the opposite of what I need, which is lots of independent AR (or even just R) envelopes. On the other hand that Triple AD module is very interesting. I will keep my eyes open for it.

Since your audio interface has many channels maybe you want to mix in the box? In which case rather than a mixer I think you just need a bunch of output modules like the Happy Nerding Isolator or similar. (Or the really low budget option : a few passive attenuators and a bunch small-to-big jack cables)

The Micro Ornament and Crime has 4 tweakable EGs plus a TON of other stuff in 8hp, but it's menu-divey so I'm not sure if it's the best option.
-- farkas

Good idea! The O&C does look like a cool module but I already have a Disting Mk4 and Pam's New Workout in the rack, and I think that is my limit of menu-divey modules.

Jamming about this evening I realised, contrary to the conventional wisdom, that my setup needs more envelope generators.

Since single stage envelopes are good enough for my purposes, I first thought that Mutable Stages would be the most space efficient coming in a very reasonable 2.33 hp per envelope. But of course you can get an ADSR from 2hp (among others) which requires only 2hp.

Now Stages is certainly ergonomically superior to 6 x 2hp ADSR, and it has some different possibilities (notably not including being 6 ADSRs) but lets think only about density. Can 2hp be beaten? Is there a module on the market that packs in envelopes more densely than 2 hp/EG?

For Christmas I got myself a Moog Werkstatt-01. I like it very much! Here you can hear it make some acidic noises accompanied by its cousin the DFAM. The DFAM part is a little boring because I was having too much fun tweaking the Werkstatt!

The Werkstatt makes the main synth line, with its pitch, gate and VCF cutoff sequenced by the Beatstep Pro. The actual sequence doesn't change -- all the variation is just from tweaking the synth. The BSP also sends clock to the DFAM which is making all the other noises (kick, snare, weird bass squawks). Despite all the flashing lights only one of the BSP's drum channels is actually used... A little delay and reverb applied outboard.

So much protesting Kel_, I start to think you are the spy this message was intended for...

You know what a Numbers Station is? Posts like this are the 21st century version.

(Either that, or human beings are idiots, a hypothesis which is obviously not true...)

Sorry for hijacking, but thought you might enjoy Surgeon on the Quadrantid Swarm
https://anthony-child.bandcamp.com/track/count-to-5-in-the-quadrantid-swarm

@troux -- thanks for organising this! Amazing!

I'd love to contribute, although I don't really do "short". This is my personal favourite of my recent jams, although I have recently acquired a Werkstatt-01 and I feel something acidic may be about to happen...

If it's too long I can find a shorter one, but not much shorter.

Juan FTW! Quite a thing to compare ones own work to, though...it's almost like being a beginning modern-day poet, but having to 1:1 compare your work with Shakespeare's sonnets!
-- Lugia

Well I really only intended to compare to Shakespeare's kick drum, as it were...

Oh don't get me wrong -- it's a great mix, and everything comes through very well. In a sense, it's quite old school, like before the "rules" of techno were quite so ossified. I mean, compare any modern techno record to this :

I enjoyed it a lot! Although for "proper" techno I think you need a stronger kick, maybe this is the influence of the drone origin?

Some filters invert the signal. This is the cause of the stereo image flipping in mid/side chain.

Here's the maths. There should be a lot of dividing by two to make this work exactly, but for simplicity I'm going ignore that. To start with :

M = L+R
S = L - R

Normally I retrieve the stereo signal by doing the same trick again :

M + S = (L+R) + (L -R) = L
M - S = (L+R) - (L -R) = R

But if I pass S through an inverter to get

S' = -S = R - L

When I recombine I now :

M + S' = (L + R) + (R - L) = R

which is not the side I was expecting!

Incidentally, a simple way to make a high-pass from a low-pass is to invert the low-passed signal and add it to the unfiltered signal. I guess this is exactly what the Doepfer Wasp is doing.

EDITED Dec 19th 2020, 03:07

I also have a Soundcraft Signature MTK and with the channel trim pots turned to minimum there is no issue taking audio straight from the modular into the desk -- additional attenuation is not needed. Then you can put your effects on a mixer bus or send.

@Lugia -- listening to some SPX90 demo clips.
https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/yamaha-spx90-multi-effects-processor/
You're not selling one are you? I might need the classic sound of "Large Scale Integration" when I start my synthwave side project :) . It is possible I am unduly influenced by the extremely 80s test samples, impossible to be sure.

I quite fancy Ripples, but I think I will run of rack before I get one :)

You're sailing very close to the wind on VCAs with this edit. You only have two now, and since the Loquelic (I think) has no amp envelope of its own, one of those will need to permanently allocated to that. This seems like not enough.

You could use Disting I guess but since you have 1hp left over (unforgivable) a better option may be to replace Mixup with a smaller mixer and a dual VCA. There are loads of options. (It would be better to choose a mixer which works for CV and audio; the Mixup is for audio only.)

Here's an attempt.

The left side is your sequencing and modulation section. The combination of Pam's, Kinks, and Short Bus gives you a wealth of gate, trigger, and clocked modulation options to drive your modulation hungry voices. Stages is huge for such a small box but it does two crucial things: envelopes and sequences. I'm currently obsessed with it, so it's in the box. O/A/x2 will give some hands on control over all that modulation; some of BIA parameters are very sensitive and trying to get them right directly on Pam is a pain.

The noise out of Kinks will go to one of the Optomix channels to be percussion.

SY0.5 and BIA are your main percussive voices. Tiptop One does whatever they can't : chords, pads, ambience. And probably hihats :-/ Disting can do whatever is missing elsewhere.

The Doepfer dual VCA gives you the choice of linear and exponential response; maybe not actually needed because both Pam and Stages give you control over shape, but still handy I think. The knobs are not too tiny. With your choice of voices and the Optomix there you are more likely to use this for CV than audio.

The ergonomic disaster now begins. The idea is to use stack cables to bus the inputs of the two 2hp Mixers together. One is then your main mix and the other is your FX send to the Pico DSP. Hopefully you are not going to be tweaking too much, unless you have very small fingers! My preference would be to ditch this section entirely, mix on a real mixer and use outboard for effects. You will obviously need an external mixer for you other gear anyway.

I kept all the things you already had, but given a free choice I would have ditched the Optomix and the Tiptop One.
* Tiptop One can be replaced by Disting which is a perfectly good sample player, with lots of modes.
* Optomix is very big for what it is, and since your voices all have their own envelopes the need for an LPG is less.
With the 12 hp saved you might get :
* a FILTER. Lots of good options for 8hp or less, pick one to your taste.
* a "normal" VCO : Doepfer A-111-3 or 2hp VCO are flexible compact options, but there are plenty more.
* more utilities.
I might go for : 2hp VCO, 2hp Tune (to help Stages be melodic), Make Noise LxD, Doepfer A-121-3 Mulitmode filter.

I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement but I think this has the potential to make a lot of fun (if minimalistic) techno, even without any other instruments.

If it's not an aimless jam -- and often it is an aimless jam -- I usually start from just one module or musical element. I often try to get a module to do something new. This is especially true for those modules that can do a lot (looking at you Disting!) For example, recently I've been trying to get the BIA to do many things at once; this means both learning the sounds that it can do, and also how to set up the different modulation tracks to make it happen. Once I'm happy with my "experiment" I usually bring in other elements to build a piece of music around that.

There's no need to record unless it's sounding good, although if I've been playing too long my judgement about good and bad can be a bit off :-/

Did you really want to have two Pico DSPs?

Two obvious things you are still missing here : a mixer and a VCA. Ditch the second Pico DSP and you could get one of each from 2hp.

That said, I would start picking up the modules one by one and see what you actually need for the way you play. Some of these modules (Disting, Stages, BIA, Pam) have a lot possibilities and depending how you use them you might change your mind about the others, especially in combination with your other gear.

I have been doing something similar for a little while, and techno in 88 hp is quite possible, especially if you have other gear too. See for example :

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9056

In my setup Pam's is the heart of everything. To get the best out it you will probably want the Pexp-1 expander. I also strongly recommend getting a switched OR module like the Low-Gain Short Bus or the Ladik S-260. This will turn Pam's into a much more powerful trigger sequencer, because you can use the switched OR to overlay sequences. Pam is also a very capable modulation source, and it can be quantised to pitch to generate melodic loops (your Beatstep Pro is probably a better option for this though!) To make the most of this you will need a CV mixer, and a logic module (e.g. Mutable Instruments Kinks or SSF Tool-box) could be quite handy too.

I am assuming you are going to get more percussive voices here. I second Sacguy's recommendation of BIA - it's very good, and with some creative (clocked!) modulation it can be many different "voices" at the same time. A low-pass gate is a nice thing to have : will let a "normal" oscillator do more interesting percussive things when needed.

I have no suggestions for pads and general ambience, other than to use Disting as a sample player, with loads of delay and reverb. If I had infinite budget I would get the Instruo Saich, but it is very expensive and quite large.

p.s If you haven't already seen it, Mylarmelodies' video about making a tiny techno system has many good ideas.

what is the use case for the 2hp tune? I'm not conviced of it's usefulness - Pams does quantized doesn't it?

Pam can quantise its outputs but it can't quantise external signals. (Unless they improved the firmware AGAIN while I wasn't looking.) Since it is an LFO at heart and not a sequencer this is a bit melodically limiting. I'm thinking of getting a 2hp Tune just to release my Disting for other duties! Although the Disting has many variations on the theme of quantisation, which Tune cannot do. Sad.

Thanks guys, glad you enjoyed. With your encouragement maybe next time I can make it to 17 minutes :)

Someone on this forum said a drone track has to last 17 minutes. I tried, I really tried.

Hope no one is offended by the lack of modular on this: the only sound source is the DFAM playing into a big mess of cheap-ass... er I mean... vintage digital delays feeding back into each other, most prominent of which is the Boss RSD-10.

/applause!

Real nice Wishbone!

Amazing -- I want more!

I think all of these are too big for my purposes, although the CV normalisation of Quad VCA is very interesting. Happy Nerding 3xVCA or new Mutable Veils are contenders, but I may just go for a 2hp to keep things small.

... I need more VCAs.

Not knowing the M32 I'm not sure what it has and what it lacks, so I will just make some minor suggestions for improving this rack.

I think something like the ALM O/A/x2 is a better use of 4hp than three passive attenuators. You only get two channels but attenuvert and offset is more useful than just attenuate. Alternatively you could get a 2hp dual attenuverter and a 2hp ADSR in that space, and replace the (large) Doepfer ADSR.

Considering you already have Maths in there, it seems quite wasteful to give up so much space to another envelope generator. There are a lot of smaller options if you really want an ADSR. Mutable Instruments Peaks (or one of its smaller clones) could do this job while also giving a lot of additional possibilities.

There are a lot of modulation destinations in here but not so many modulation sources. Is the M32 + Maths enough to drive all of this? You probably want a CV mixer of some kind too.

The Quad VCA seems like a solid choice, but personally I would go for the new Veils instead.

@GarfieldModular -- thanks for the kind words!

@Lugia -- interesting point, very oblique. In a previous incarnation I did all my music in the computer, which meant lots of editing and rearranging to try to keep the piece in motion. What's obvious to me, but maybe not to others, is that in this piece there are a lot of static parts, a lot of thinking-while-recording, which if I was working on a multitrack recording I would edit down. The modular is an escape from all that clicking, but I'm not yet proficient enough on the instrument to achieve the musical results I want. Whether I adopt your idea or not, I am sure that "keep practicing" is part of the answer :)

@troux -- this is really nice.

Much too long, but give a couple of minutes to get going. Sorry for standing in front of the camera so much :(

New things :
+ Beatstep Pro : this is really good. It is going expand the musical possibilities quite a lot.
- Doepfer suitcase : I like its solidity but it's a bit too big for my space. I may have to trade it for something smaller and skiffier.

Patch notes : the main line is produced by BIA with a bunch of modulation from the Beatstep Pro, with an envelope going to pitch to make the kick sound. There are three copies of this one goes straight into the desk, another goes into a compressor to bring out the the thwokk of the kick, and the third goes to the Font bandpass. The cutoff of Font is sequenced by the Beatstep too. The "cymbals" are Hats909 in raw mode, straight into the desk. This is all pretty static. All the other percussive noises, starting with the little hihats and descending into general madness later, are from the DFAM.

EDITED Oct 31st 2020, 18:59

But if you want modules-as-art, I'd have to give the nod to Folktek.
-- Lugia

Ooh nice! I didn't know about Folktek! The panels are amazing, and the modules are interesting too.