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Thanks,

Yes, noticed that.

Any suggestions? I was looking at the WMD Volt. Any other?

Thanks

Hello,

I'd like to know if, as users, we can add videos on the module description, and if it's allowed, how to proceed. Thank you !

Hello, the M303 is a very nice mpodule, if you plan to pair it with another VCO you'll need an octave switcher !

EDITED Sep 12th 2021, 09:26

Talking of heat, I think the Rackbrute case I bought had a problem, it got really hot and smelled like burning plastic and made the room stink. This ended up going back to the supplier who fit a new Power supply and sent it back. I'd lost faith in it by this point so left it boxed up and sold it on.
I'd never had a problem with my TipTop uZeus (x2) or my subsequent KonstantLab Power, I even found some of my modules ran cooler when NOT in the Rackbrute.

Hopefully this was a one-off and you'll have a good experience with Arturia.

Mat, a couple comments:

— if you are looking at DPO vs Verbos Complex vs Furthrr, may as well also consider Instruo Csl and Mindphaser. I personally love the “complex OSC” setup which is very west coast and to me a big change from what I experienced with lots of prior VST exposure. In other words I find that setup a breath of fresh air. DPO sounds great to me; the dual primary routing is very good and it has a fat warm musical sound to me. CSL a lot of people love but to me it sounds a lot thinner than DPO. Anyways there are some very strong modules in this set and it’s worth some good comparison and consideration. And whatever the spec sheets say, man DPO really sounds great to me…

— from the thread above I have to mention FSS Makrow and ADDAC 306 which are basically macro controllers in modular. I have a hunch 1,2,3 of those might be a great fit with your overall setup.

I’ll have to check out your videos!

Cheers,

Nicholas
-- nickgreenberg

Hi Nicholas,
Interested to read your comments about the complex oscillators out there. It's a tricky choice, because whichever one I choose is going to have such a major effect on the eventual sound. I really need to find a shop somewhere which has them all so I can play with each of them and see which floats my boat I guess. I like the look of the FSS Makrow and ADDAC 306, which would be great for transitions. Not sure what I'd take out though. I'm planning to pair the eventual case with a Make Noise 0-CNTRL or something similar to give me some hands on control.
Cheers,
Mat

well its all together, hard to understand it and blew a speaker all ready!

Mat, a couple comments:

— if you are looking at DPO vs Verbos Complex vs Furthrr, may as well also consider Instruo Csl and Mindphaser. I personally love the “complex OSC” setup which is very west coast and to me a big change from what I experienced with lots of prior VST exposure. In other words I find that setup a breath of fresh air. DPO sounds great to me; the dual primary routing is very good and it has a fat warm musical sound to me. CSL a lot of people love but to me it sounds a lot thinner than DPO. Anyways there are some very strong modules in this set and it’s worth some good comparison and consideration. And whatever the spec sheets say, man DPO really sounds great to me…

— from the thread above I have to mention FSS Makrow and ADDAC 306 which are basically macro controllers in modular. I have a hunch 1,2,3 of those might be a great fit with your overall setup.

I’ll have to check out your videos!

Cheers,

Nicholas

QQ: what level Furmann conditioner do you consider good? I find their product literature nearly useless; seems to me nearly the same marketing speak is applied to their $200 units up to their $3600 units—I can barely discern a functional difference.
-- nickgreenberg

Until you get into the EXTREMELY high end of Furman's power conditioner line, most everything gets handled by MOVs, which are there to filter voltage spikes...which are the REAL problem here. One good high voltage transient can do loads of damage, but lots of not-so-high voltage spikes will have the same cumulative effect as a rule. In here, I use a bunch of PL-8 and PL-8plus Furmans, in addition to some recently-added M-8Lx units.

And they can even protect against Stupid User Tricks...f'rinstance, I once had to plug in my Korg MS-20 (which normally has a 2-conductor power cord) "blind", as seeing the connector in that case would've required some physically-impossible contortions. Sure enough, one prong went into the "hot" leg, but the other was against the grounded Furman case. Switch on the Furman...and POP!!!

Did that fry the MS-20 (it should've)? Nope. Instead, one of the Furman's MOV's had popped and the MS-20 blew its P/S fuse due to the improper connection. That's what you WANT to happen! One annoying fuse change (which turned into a mod of putting the fuse receptacle on the back, next to the power cord) and replaced MOV later, and all was well once more. I should also note that the mods also included changing the power cord to a more sensible 3-prong, with the cord ground going to the chassis. This not only made the unit QUIETER (definitely a big deal in original AC-powered MS-20s) but it prevented the same cord insertion problem from happening again.

Hi Klodifokan,

Thanks a lot for the updates and extra info. Indeed, let's hope next year the modular meet and Superbooth are a bit further away from each other from a timing point of view. For me Brussels is not so far (few hours drive), much closer than Berlin (Superbooth), so I don't mind to come next year to Brussels and have a look :-) Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

Arturia is probably stating that the width is 88 hp because they want some airflow around the edges of the module layout. This is a perfectly valid way to keep heat buildup in the cab from becoming a problem, as overheating can damage components (caps especially) over time, alter module calibrations, screw with tuning stability, and the like.

Metropolix with the gate expander is worth considering here too.

Hi,

Got two seeks which i am using with m303 and other roland-ish filters.
I am actually having fun but as you said the seek has some limitations.
I would love to buy a stepper but it's sold out everywhere and i was not able to find one.
I mailed a couple of time Transistor to know if they are planning to restock but i got no answers.
Anyone know if they will restock at some stage?
Thanks

Hi Garfield,

This year, the modular meet is very small.
Only 3 exhibitiors : Klavis, Joranalogue and Three Tom modular.
Because there is superbooth next week.

Maybe next year, if there are lot of people interested in this event, they'll organize something bigger.
Not just before superbooth of course.

Cheers

Merhaba!

Çok güzel... Looking forward to the Thru Zero VCO. Please keep us updated!

Hi,

I'll ask the organizer if he can communicate on MG next year.

And you can submite them a 404 second track.
For the moment I don't have anything to submite but I think about.

Cheers

Thanks Chris. That makes perfect sense. And thanks too for the thought you’ve put into this. I could never afford (or justify) a Skylab but this could be a brilliant alternative and actually have some cool extra bits too, like the echo and the logic circuits. I’ve copied your rack (so now it’s a copy of a copy). Cheers, MLC, aka Mat.

@GarfieldModular

Thanks for watching/listening and your kind words!

Ok- I've had both Seek and Stepper. I also live in Chicago and grew up on ACID House since the age of 8. Always have been seeking Acid and somehow ended up playing live shows with my Euroracks at 41. I use the Stepper and M303 for that sound after trying countless sequencers. The Stepper hands-down is the show killer. Its got "live", "song" and "detach" modes! The Seek is fun but lacks these. Do the Stepper. The slide is adjustable as well.

EDITED Sep 11th 2021, 05:45

Hi M01C,

This is a great little demo track. Lovely sounds you manage to get out of the Alkemie's Taiko.

Nice work and thanks a lot for demoing this to us, kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Klodifokan,

Okay fair enough and thanks a lot for the additional information! I just subscribed to the newsletter. I hope I can make it for next year's event :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Interesting devices! Please send updates when available. Cheers!

Hi folks,

I should clarify, for the "dream voicing rig" questions above, DO assume the rig would also have enough CV, utilities etc. to operate well. In the rack above and related questions, I've included only voicing modules, so we can focus some discussion around "what constitutes great?" in Eurorack voicing setups.

I wouldn't want to be rude to anyone on the thread; your ideas and comments are certainly welcome. With that said, I will feel free to steer the conversation somewhat back towards the initial / central questions of the post.

Do we have other comments / ideas on what constitutes a "dream voicing rig"? Please consider in particular the first few postings (which offer the initiating questions and some rough constraints for our "thought experiment"). Thanks!

I think it matters. The amount of error in a hand-tweaked knob will vary over time while a decent LFO will be relatively stable over time. I think we can sense that error (if not hear it), and that error is what I think contributes to interesting sound/music. They say guitar playing is all in the fingers. Keith Richards' feel will never be as precise as Steve Vai, but I know who I'd rather listen to. Of course no one else cares, but that's what makes something interesting to me.
Barring random and chaos modules, which can be unmusical in some uses, If we all have the same precise utilities, the same LFOs, Maths, Kinks, etc., there are only so many original combinations to make an interesting sound. What ultimately differentiates any of this music then? I would say the human error is what differentiates it all. Separating into utilities-are-more-important-than-oscillators (or vice versa) "camps" sort of takes away from the OP's fun thought exercise.

-- farkas

well I do agree with you - but you can always mix in a little random or chaos with other modulation

& I'd definitely rather listen to Keith play guitar than Steve Vai or any one like that

no one type of module is more important than another - but in most cases you will get more out of fewer sound sources and a decent selection of other modules, than out of more sound sources and fewer other modules

I also think it massively depends on how big your rack is - the smaller it is the easier it is to play it manually - the bigger it is the more the need for modulation - and as I said I mainly use modulation, but I also tweak things over time - but not to the extent I have seen a lot of performers - some of whom appear to be just touching knobs as opposed to actually wiggling them

a lot of the time I have the modular running whilst I do other things - so it's difficult to tweak constantly

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:18

think I’d prefer the sound of Mimeophon to Echophon - was there a reason you chose that? Also, what do you think the DUSG brings to the party now that there are four envelope generators? Do you see it as a second oscillator or is it there for all the other stuff it can do?

-- ModLifeCrisis

Hey ModLifeCrisis,
In terms of the Echophon I simply choose that because it fit and because it has delightfully large knobs. I think that, in terms of effects, whatever floats your boat will be just fine. It‘s just that I‘m personally intrigued by Echophon.
I‘m sure Mimeophon, Morphagene (which you already own) or even beads would all be grand Options too.

Concerning the Dusg, theres many things it can do that Quadrax can not and because of the 4 envelopes of Quadrax you can actually use it for other stuff without running out of Modulation Sources;
-1v/O Tracking VCO
-Slew Limiting
-Filtering
Just to name a few, I‘m sure there‘s much much more that I‘m unaware of, If you really wan‘t to use it‘s full potential I recon you need something else to handle basic Envelopes and LFO‘s.
Simply consider the Krell Patch and how quick you‘ll be down 3 envelopes plus an LFO for Timbre Modulation, that‘s Quadrax used up effectively.
Sure Pams can do LFO‘s and Envelopes too, but only time-synced that I‘m aware of and having a module like Quadrax seems to be more intuitive and more inline with the Skylab.

All the Best
Chris

EDITED Sep 10th 2021, 19:32

Thanks a ton! Yeah, the guitar was done with a Montreal Assembly Count to 5 and my mutant attempt to do a Bill Frisell thing. It's definitely different, and I'll probably take another run at it. I think it's a little loud in the mix, too.

The Chirper is more versatile than it at first seems and rewards continued exploration, and I can't recommend the Double Knot enough if you want your electronic music to swing. You can make a four-over-three thing cracked by inputing off-beat. So it's in time, but a really effing weird time. The DK was providing time for the Plumbutter, so it's clicks and clacks are in the same systematically off time. A Red Panda Tensor makes some pitch adjustments and further time weirdness available in stereo. I highly recommend that pedal.

EDITED Sep 10th 2021, 18:57

Love the crazy rhythms in 9721, and the guitar in Enthusiasts is way out there. Not sure I’d want to hear that after a night of heavy drinking. :-) Your Board Chirper recordings are making that thing very tempting. Cheers!

ABOUT US

Vaemi, which is an institution that develops electronic musical instruments and synthesizers, came into life in Istanbul in 2020. Founded by the brothers Efe Çakır and Tunç Çakır, Vaemi aims to produce studio-quality analog devices, vacuum tube instruments and effects, logic synthesizers, small lo-fi synthesizers and utility circuits. We make our own designes, and we are working on developing a new system. While doing that, we also endeavour to revive the the instruments and circuits which are adored, and which have stayed hidden in progress from the past to the present day. In this ever-growing electronic equipment industry, we prefer through hole (DIP) technology over surface-mount technology for reasons such as its sound quality and longevity. We have our sights trained on transmitting our high quality and handmaid instruments, produced with well-selected components, to Turkey and every other country in the world for a reasonable price.

We will be releasing our Eurorack modules soon. The first eurorack module we will release will be the thruzero VCO. We hope you like it. We aim to be more active in 2022. There are 4 products that we have released before. You can visit our www.vaemi.net address to have information about these products.

Website:
https://en.vaemi.net/

https://www.instagram.com/vaemisynth/

https://soundcloud.com/vaemi

https://www.facebook.com/Vaemisynth/

https://twitter.com/Vaemisynth

Our first instrument, El-Ma Orsted

I love it. It is a different thing though.
The Morphagene is a lovely thing but I had it for a few years and needed something fresh. If I was rich I had them both!
MNM is really good to get fast Ambient textures. Also getting random sounding stereo effects can be created fast with it. The Autoleveling function is killer.
The Nebulae is a completely different sounding modul. It is in general a bit more musical and hands on. You have pitch and speed seperate. It is perfect for glitch and IDM with the right samples and patch. The sample lenghth is longer and you can just have a USB stick full with samples without having any special naming of the files ( like in th MNM for instance 'mg1.wav, mg2.wav... ')
Another cool features are the alternate firmwares.

Tschüssi ;)

-- JakoJako

Hi! Thanks for sharing.. I'm quite new about MG, I bought it two months ago from Schneidersladen, and I'm interested in what you said about " random sounding stereo effects can be created fast ".
Could you share how were you doing it?

thanks a lot

Happy with mine...

I do still find that my hands are the best CV control I've got...

-- ModLifeCrisis

Had to look up your “Perfect CV Controller” video on YouTube, and couldn’t agree more. I was just trying to explore this idea in a different thread. Personally, I think the human side is where modular artists find their own artistic voice. I know this is a gear forum, so any discussion of style, artistry, or philosophy is quickly shut down in favor of, “Just buy XYZ module.” I thought your video was an important consideration of something that new modular enthusiasts should ponder just as much as case size, budget, voices, and utilities. Thanks for exploring that idea. Just subscribed to your channel. :)
Also, good luck with your Skylab build.

-- farkas

Hi, thanks. Yep. The more I can get my fingers and gestures involved the better. The Buchla Skylab comes with a weird keyboard thing which is a bugger to program apparently but once set up is very expressive. For this build I’m considering the MN 0-control which doesn’t do as much but would be simpler and hopefully good fun. Thanks for the subscribe too. I’d better make another video! :)

Now you really got me thinking,
This morning when I got up I looked at the build again and noticed that there are almost no VCAs.
Then I read your Post and took a look at the Skylab.

I think that you‘d be best of trying to replicate half of the Audio Path of that thing and definetly drop one random source in favour of a quad envelope (closest Thing in Euro is probably Quadrax plus Expander) and add VCA‘s dedica
Also you completely omitted the Frequency Shifter.I think thats a pretty crucial one. Luckily Doepfer just put out a very reasonably priced one, yes it‘s a little small, but I think it would be your best bet.

Now I tried to do a complete overhaul that makes sense to me, while keeping the modules as big as possible and looking at the Skylab.

I actually really dig that build, luckily I don‘t have 5 grand to spend on modular right now ;).

Wish you all the Best
Chris

Hi Chris - that looks very interesting. Thanks. I’m going to have to study it. Couple of things come to mind immediately - think I’d prefer the sound of Mimeophon to Echophon - was there a reason you chose that? Also, what do you think the DUSG brings to the party now that there are four envelope generators? Do you see it as a second oscillator or is it there for all the other stuff it can do?

I do still find that my hands are the best CV control I've got...

-- ModLifeCrisis

Had to look up your “Perfect CV Controller” video on YouTube, and couldn’t agree more. I was just trying to explore this idea in a different thread. Personally, I think the human side is where modular artists find their own artistic voice. I know this is a gear forum, so any discussion of style, artistry, or philosophy is quickly shut down in favor of, “Just buy XYZ module.” I thought your video was an important consideration of something that new modular enthusiasts should ponder just as much as case size, budget, voices, and utilities. Thanks for exploring that idea. Just subscribed to your channel. :)
Also, good luck with your Skylab build.

EDITED Sep 10th 2021, 09:41

Now you really got me thinking,
This morning when I got up I looked at the build again and noticed that there are almost no VCAs.
Then I read your Post and took a look at the Skylab.

I think that you‘d be best of trying to replicate half of the Audio Path of that thing and definetly drop one random source in favour of a quad envelope (closest Thing in Euro is probably Quadrax plus Expander) and add VCA‘s dedicated to modulation.
Also you completely omitted the Frequency Shifter.I think thats a pretty crucial one. Luckily Doepfer just put out a very reasonably priced one, yes it‘s a little small, but I think it would be your best bet.

Now I tried to do a complete overhaul that makes sense to me, while keeping the modules as big as possible and looking at the Skylab.

I actually really dig that build, luckily I don‘t have 5 grand to spend on modular right now ;).

Wish you all the Best
Chris

PS: still did not Update, need to click link again.

EDITED Sep 10th 2021, 09:47

One Last Thing,
I just remembered you did a great video on interacting with the modular by using your Hands.
The Er101 seems to be the antithesis of that, atleast to me, have you considered putting Pressure Points in there? Or have you strayed away from that Idea?
-- Cangore

Hi, yep. The ER101 does look a bit fiddly doesn't it. Part of my inspiration was to recreate the Buchla Skylab which I could never justify buying (£15,000 for 10 modules) and the ER101 is the closest thing I've seen to the Buchla 251e sequencer you get in the default Skylab setup. I think I had in mind to pair my next rack with a MakeNoise O-Control or some such because I do still find that my hands are the best CV control I've got... Pressure Points would work too, but of course takes up space. I've been looking again at your revamped version of the modules I chose originally. It does make a lot more sense. I still think I'd like a complex oscillator though - the Skylab has two!
Cheers, MLC

Thanks so much for the input guys!

Agreed that sample based modules don’t have the power/capabilities for what I’m envisioning. Do you think that the hardware sampler approach could match or have any benefits over what orchestral sample libraries already offer?

Rethinking a bit, controlling the rig with modular might be fairly tedious for what I need it to do… What I really want is to get away for the daw format a little bit and play most of the parts in on a keyboard, but use a sequencer to have a hardware interface. Then my Eurorack is just for sound design, and maybe some audio processing after recording. Does this make sense? Or should I just stick with the standard DAW approach?

EDITED Sep 13th 2021, 15:44

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:17

Hi,

Sorry for the late info.
I could have published it before but forget to do.
My bad.

This event will be yearly I think.
I hope so.
It happened in 2019, this year and maybe next year.
A planning can be updated :)

I'm not the organizer, just visitor.

Subscribe to the newsletter :
https://modular404.com/

Cheers

EDITED Sep 10th 2021, 05:41

The RackBrute 3U and 6U cases are actually 89 HP wide, and if you replace the PS panel, you've got an extra 2 hp.
-- Vow3ll
So Arturia falsely advertises 88HP? Not sure I'm following you...their website specifies 88 for 3U, 176 for 6U
What are you suggesting replacing the PS panel with?

Ronin, Jim, Farkas, thanks for the comments above.

Ronin, I hear you on "the modulation sources and utilities are the "sauce" that makes the sound great." And this response is part of why I'm asking this question -- to find out how much of a voicing section people are finding useful / inspiring.

Yet in fairness, I can't think of another way to get the sounds I'm getting from two "power oscillators" interacting (such as Mindphaser modulated at audio rate by Odessa) or complex OSC outputs switched at (varying) audio rate, all of which happens in the "voicing" type modules (like above).

SO, might we say "the sauce (that makes the sound great) is where you put it"? I'm reminded of some Zebra2 patches by Howard Scarr (the sound genius who did most of the sound design for the Dark Knight movies) -- one great patch in particular where the OSC section itself sounds like sh8t BUT it is basically a bland impulse going to an elaborate FX section, where those FX in effect become complex resonators (and the defacto sound generators as a result). In that patch, the FX are the "sauce" but are not acting remotely like traditional FX. Hence this notion that, depending on the setup and patch, the "sauce" could potentially be anywhere...

I AM interested in digging in more to what Ronin & Jim are saying above and where they get their "sauce," if not so much from the "voicing" modules, BUT I fear that would take this thread into diverging directions. So how about this: i) I'll follow up with Ronin, Jim, and anybody else who's interested in a later thread that looks at some of their favorite rigs and what are the core modules / techniques for those rigs and ii) this thread, we can keep jamming about what's awesome (or not awesome) in the voicing part of a rig and why.

Thanks for joining me on this geeky thread : )

@oilpanic thanks for the mention of Fractio Solumn. That was one I amlost bought a couple times but then thought "can't I do that with my PNW?" Maybe most of the Fractio's functions can be replicated with PNW, BUT Fractio's immediacy (vs. PNW's menu dives) certainly argue for it IMO. Anyways it's a great mention, and maybe a module meriting addition to the setup above owing to its immediacy and musicality. I'll certainly keep it in mind.

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:16

Void's probably following the Brian Eno logic for how to figure out synthesizers: install, toss operating directions out, develop own methods instead. And that's perfectly valid...the other school of thought is to pore over the docs before using, but the critique there is that what you learn is a rather "doctrinaire" set of use methods.

As for the different filters, here's a different and potentially better idea: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/nonlinearcircuits-timbre-timbre Instead of changing the filter, add this after the Gravitational Waves to alter the waveforms in ways that the dual oscillator alone can't. Whenever you do waveshaping of any sort, what happens is that the waveform gets altered in some way, which then alters the harmonic content of the original sound. This sort of circuit is in the Moonphase, but it's much more flexible to NOT have the waveshaper in another module, as you can also use them for screwing around with LFO waveforms.
-- Lugia
I'm happy to take the Eno logic path on a module, just not sure about doubling up on it with Sirius' Veil too. So with Timbre & Timbre is it doing what is also called "wavefolding"? Are waveshaping and wavefolding the same? With my Hydrasynth, I do have the ability to do ring modulation...is that a form of waveshaping? I also have Warps which I would assume is also waveshaping/wavefolding? I think I do want to have a 'filter' occupy that space...just not sure which one makes most sense.

I do like the cool factor you described with the Doepfer A-143-9...if I got Neutron Flux for my filter that would give me 12HP...8HP for the Doepfer with 4HP which could possibly go to Kinks if I could find one. SSF Toolbox would be nice but is 2HP too big.

Roses are red
Clichés are chronic
Chipz, Rings, and Clouds can be heterophonic

Sorry, it's a few months early...

Heterophony! Never heard this term before, but it’s something that is in a lot of patches I make, including the “mega-patch” I currently have running. Right on!

Hi Klodifokan,

Thanks for the info, that's quite interesting, pity though that you inform us one day before only. I just made my planning already for this Saturday. Will this be a yearly event? If yes, would be nice to visit it next year, if possible please let us know (much) earlier.

Thank you, have fun at the event and kind regards, Garfield.

Using a standalone hardware sampler that lends itself to modular is going to work a lot better than sampler purpose built for modular.

-- Ronin1973

+1

-- farkas

+1 here as well. This situation is very much one of those things that modular DOESN'T solve, as we have no real equivalents to something like a Yamaha A3000, Akai 5/6000, et al as a synth module. And given that you can snag a full-blown hardware sampler these days for dimes on the dollar, the cost efficiency definitely tilts this playing field.

...which has a lot to do with why I also own an Akai 6000 and a Triton Rack.

Void's probably following the Brian Eno logic for how to figure out synthesizers: install, toss operating directions out, develop own methods instead. And that's perfectly valid...the other school of thought is to pore over the docs before using, but the critique there is that what you learn is a rather "doctrinaire" set of use methods.

As for the different filters, here's a different and potentially better idea: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/nonlinearcircuits-timbre-timbre Instead of changing the filter, add this after the Gravitational Waves to alter the waveforms in ways that the dual oscillator alone can't. Whenever you do waveshaping of any sort, what happens is that the waveform gets altered in some way, which then alters the harmonic content of the original sound. This sort of circuit is in the Moonphase, but it's much more flexible to NOT have the waveshaper in another module, as you can also use them for screwing around with LFO waveforms.

One Last Thing,
I just remembered you did a great video on interacting with the modular by using your Hands.
The Er101 seems to be the antithesis of that, atleast to me, have you considered putting Pressure Points in there? Or have you strayed away from that Idea?

EDITED Sep 9th 2021, 20:58