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Ok, is sequencing going to be something you'll need? There's not a lot of modular happening in that vid, but the basic sound to me sounds like a pair of oscillators doing FM, the. Possibly through a filter. If you're not afraid of digital oscs, I'd recommend an Intellijel shapeshifter or harvestman hertz donut. Both are dual osc designs with fm routing and other functions. I personally have 2 shapeshifters, because it's insanely flexible and always giving me surprising sounds. Everything from chords, (I'm big on dubby chord stabs) deep fm, digital shifting wave table sounds, etc.

I aimed for around $2000 initially. Within 3 years though my system is what it is now. :)

If you're bored of traditional synths, if recommend exploring some west coast/buchla techniques which are timbrally much more expressive and different sounding. Look up wave folding, dynamic FM, etc.

So, let's start by figuring out exactly the kind of sounds you hope to make and start from there.

There's a long out of print book by Allen Strange called Electronic Music Systems, Techniques and Controls (1972).

However you can find the pdf online fairly easily.

That's a tall order! First, research as much as you can. Listen to demos, watch vids, etc. next, think about what you want to accomplish. Classic subtractive analog tones, modern digital sounds, west coast/buchla influenced systems, etc.

Then think about your budget. Then double it. ;)

Don't skimp on power and case size. Buying a small case that you will end up outgrowing will cost you more in the end. Also, don't just look at modules simply for their inexpensive price. There's a lot more to modules beyond what you can see, different build quality, functions and more importantly, sound. That's not to say that cheap modules are terrible, but if you are pining for a great complex osc with built in vcas, wave folding, etc, trying to replicate that with basics will usually leave you disappointed.

Seriously though, it can get addictive, and you'll find yourself selling other studio gear to fund modules. I sold all of my vintage synths to start my first system. No regrets of course. ;)

Have fun, and if you have specific questions about modules, power requirements, etc, just ask!

There really isn't. A cv panning mixer requires LOTS of internal vcas. And to do that while keeping sound clean, avoiding crosstalk, etc takes a lot of work. The L-1 at least is available as DIY. Even the new verbos mini mixer with cv panning is still $400.

I have an Intellijel Dubmix for this and it's quite amazing.

Genius. And nicely implemented as well. Great that it can be any row needed...

Wow, amazing update. Thanks so much.

Yes, 1u is pretty much a euro thing. One option is to specify how many 3u and 1u rows to add when making a case. But it would be tricky to arrange. Some 1u is on the bottom, and some on top.

Would be nice to get this better implemented as I suspect it's only going to grow in use soon.

I would check out the Intellijel shapeshifter if you're looking for unique sound efx as well as melodic material. It's incredibly deep for the price, and constantly surprises me with what it can do. +1 for the mutable stuff as well. Especially clouds.

Duplicate?
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/music-thing-modular-radio-music
-- sempervirent

It is different graphics though. A non-Thonk panel perhaps?

I'd think a bit about the Quadra + Expander + Maths all in the same rack, as Quadra + Expander will duplicate a lot of Maths functionality. They'll match really well together, I think, but unless you're looking to do complex west coast generative patches you don't really need 6 LFOs / EGs to control a DPO. Of course you could get both and sell whichever one if you don't need it though, which is the best way if you can afford it.
-- chartrekhan

He would need to clock the a-149, control two channels of optomix, 2 channels of vca and several dpo destinations, let alone modulate the modulation with self patching. Plus, Maths has the ability to slew/process/mix cv as well, so it can often be used for many things other than LFO/envelope generation. Also, given his module choices, it seems west coast complexity IS what he's going for.

With an octotrack, you'll need a midi to cv converter. There's some cheap single channel options, nice complex ones with their own sequencing like Mutable Instruments Yarns. You could also get an Arturua Beatstep Pro which which convert midi but also sequence modular gear on its own. For less $ that modular midi-cv converters.

Doepfer? They have some good stuff, but the Basic System is mostly good if you want to do very basic, subtractive synthesis patching. And depending on where you live, not exactly the best deal. In Europe, Doepfer is much cheaper, but in the U.S. isn't that 'competitive'. Much of it is super simple and requires many more modules to cover what some more modern designs (like intellijel and make noise) can accomplish. ie, to cover complex osc territory like a dpo, you're going to need 2x a-111, and pair of vcas, a wavefolder, etc. Much more expensive and more HPs. I started with a lot of Doepfer, but sold it once I knew what I wanted.

Well, it's really best to start with a small amount like that, because once you get the basics down, you'll see exactly what you personally need. It's really different for everyone.

How do you plant to control this? MIDI? Sequencer? Etc.

Definitely. You could do a lot with that. Keep in mind though, the black limited make noise panels are only for the complete black shared system. You can't (yet) buy a black DPO separately.

Haha. Whoops. That though was simply, think about if you need an output module. Sorry for the confusion.

As for an osc capable of LFO speed, there's lots, all hovering in the 200-250 range, however, you can find deals on used ones bringing it closer to that LFOs price. Some great ones would be the Richter Oscillator, Intellijel Dixie, Tiptop z3000, I think the bubble sound vcoB goes into lfo rates, etc. Having a pair or Dixies would be great for FM anyway. They have the cleanest some in euro (while still being an analog osc) IMO.

Anyway, euro can get out of hand. You can also save a decent amount by learning to solder module kits.

I started out with a single row as well, I have no idea how I'm up to 5 rows with another 1 or 2 rows in the very near future. 0_O

I'd say a dedicated LFO like that would be a waste of your money, as something much better like an osc that goes into LFO speeds with more waveforms would be not much more and provide much more flexibility. Think a
So if you really need an output module. Most audio interfaces and external mixers can handle modular level outputs just fine. That's money that could be spent more wisely in a small system.

Also, the uzeus does not have headers to power Analogue System modules, so you'll need to track down an adapter somehow.

I also wouldn't miss out on getting the Quadra expander either. You'll be able to make ads right envelopes with it, as well as make square wave modulation. You will also be able to create some more complex modulation functions like quadrature chains, cross patching, etc.

And lastly, keep in mind that the moddemix, while interesting, is not always the best VCA in a small system. It's very quirky and distorts/colors any sound going through it. Like, a sine will never come through it as a sine.

can someone explain how this sequencer works? I wanted it until multiple people told me you can't use a regular envelope generator? What's the deal with that?
-- Ashekyu

Well, there's no gate outputs, so you'll have to mult your clock to trigger envelopes. It also runs at 10v fully clockwise, so it's a little hard to dial in accurate pitches.

It's a great modulation sequencer though.

The Intellijel uVCF is 6hp and is multi mode. Sounds great too.

No problem at all! I just remembered that they were indeed there somewhere. And thanks for asking first before creating duplicates. It's a big help in keeping things tidy.

Either/or:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/synthrotek-either-or-eurorack-or-module

Combine:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/synthrotek-combine-or

You can't really count the serge price as a 'module'. A single panel of serge can contain many individual module sections. A couple of oscs, a filter, dusg, mixing, cv processing, etc.

Just watch the richter. I used to have one and the 'freeze' aspect in mine never worked right. Instead of locking in a pattern, it would clear and fall back into an ascending staircase pattern. Ive read others complain about this as well.

Couple of reasons.

1) A new smaller, somewhat improved version has recently come out.

2) While its a fun module, there were some issues such as unstable internal clock, general confusion as to how the knobs worked/related to one another.

So, between the draw of something new and shiny coupled with some dissatisfaction has made a lot of people sell it. I've seen them go as low as $150 recently.

Personally, I sold mine because I found a random module that better fit my needs with the SSF URA.

Yep, same power header, same mounting holes. You'll be fine!

Just remember that 4ms row power eats up 4hp per row. You might stretch a black one to run two rows.

Oh ok. Well then you'll need a wiring harness with a switch and power jack. Not sure if east sick would still include this, as the different power bricks have a few different plug sizes. Here's where communication between you, Intellijel and perhaps London mod/eastwick will need to happen. :)

Exper I need your help once again!
As I'm about to order everything I want to make sure that, at least in your opinion, a TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B will work with an Eastwick Aero Black case. I asked London Modular but they won't make a statement about it since you need to screw the PSU on the case and they don't do it.
Also, will I need anything else like internal cables or power adapters of any sort that don't come with the PSU or the modules?

Cheers!
-- Tazio

Yes you will need the meanwell external brick. As for specifics with fitting the case, I really couldn't say. It might be best to ask east wick themselves as well as Intellijel. As far as I can tell, that case already comes with a makenoise power supply. Perhaps if you order direct from east sick, you can get an empty case, and he can make a wiring harness compatible with the Intellijel busboard.

Yea. Manufacturers (if they care enough) should have the final say as far as info/pics for individual modules.

And I agree. These newer mutable images are washed outed and flat looking. The previous ones looked nicer.

Ha, like social media? Not a bad idea actually. I'd like a way to actually search for users in an easier way. The problem is, many users have private racks, so you can't actually see what's going on any way.

Like I said, I beta tested the 4ms Row Power, the Intellijel and the Tiptop Studio Zeus. All were pretty good. There a a couple of instances with some digital modules (Pamelas workout, trigger riot) still make slight noise on their own. This wouldn't happen with a linear supply. In my situation, I put those in a 3u case that is only sequencing modules, no sound processing/generation)

I have replacements. They still hum. ;)

At this point I have to get rid of them, because I hardly want to record anything.

The problem, some will say 'mine is quiet'. Then you go listen to their soundcloud page and it's an Armageddon sized racket of noise and redlined levels. Of course they won't know if there's hum then. ;)

Mmmmm not a fan of bulkiness... Something like this will do right?
"TPS80W Triple Power Supply – TYPE B"
-- Tazio

Yes. That's a very good Supply. Lots of headroom for better performance. I beta tested those and the results were good. I've also used the tiptop studio Zeus and can recommend that as well.

If you read up on the Muff Wiggker forum, you'll are lots of complaints about unwanted him and noise with the MN busboards. I'm kind of stuck with them for know since my cases came with them, but the minute I can, I'm swapping.

The best supplies are linear, like Doepfer uses. Super quiet and no issues as long as you stay below the power limit. The problem is, no one else wants to make a linear supply because off the licensing costs. They are also bulkier, and won't fit in today's more shallow case designs.

I'm either going to swap my MN for the Intellijel power, or design an external enclosure that will house 3-4 linear power supplies to feed into my Goike cases. (2x6u aluminum boards configured as a folding design and a 3u boat in front)

Just do NOT choose a make noise power supply. It's terribly noisy. I'd go with the Intellijel power as it has a ton of headroom, or a pair of the tiptop studio Zeus busboards. Both I've used and are very quiet. 4ms row power isn't bad either.

:)
Re: Logic. - I just didn't want the OP to confuse the two forms of logic, as he's a euro newcomer. Synth terms like these aren't really known/used outside of modular synths.

i have used the Plog and i really don't like it :(
something just rubs me wrong about programmable logic
-- FSK1138

It's not that it's 'programmable' it's just CV controlled. That leads to very interesting patterns that aren't static if you took the output from just one logic type. But besides that, it includes flip flop logic, which is super creative and helps in building complex, constantly changing patches. The only other logic module (especially in a smaller firm) with the basics + flip flop is the Animodule LogicOgic.

sort of defeats the whole point
with Wogglebug and Math you have good logic
-- FSK1138

That's not the same kind of logic. There's voltage logic for pulling out the peaks or inverting a combination of CV signals (maths) and there's 'digital' (on and off state) gate logic. The wogglebug outputs a clock and random burst triggers, but it has nothing to do with mixing and combining triggers.

i found the A-151 rev2 to be really useful EXPANDER
you can clock it off maths or the Wogglebug or the cock divider
or even a LFO
and it can act as 2,3,4 to 1 out or 1to2,3,4 out
and you have a manuel switch
fun time fun time :) !!
-- FSK1138

That I agree with. Sequential switches are a lot of fun. You can even turn it into a pitch sequencer if you put offset voltages into the inputs (like for instance, the 4 Center channels of your maths)
They're also handy for feeding it different clock speeds and switching between them for ratcheting effects.

The wogglebug would give you noise if you ramped the speed up to audio rate, but then you no longer have slow/stepped random. Just noise.

My random of choice is the SSF URA. It has a ton of random outputs, 3 stepped (one can be slewed) a smooth "flux" random, random gates, vactrol slew, etc. On that one, if you ramp it up to audio rate, the output of channel A becomes noise, while everything else can still be clocked externally. I also have a Quantum Rainbow 2 as noise. The different colored outputs are all very useful.

You have also noise in the disting as well, BUT, you can't keep counting on that for all of your utilities. It can only do one at a time! ;)

Oh good heads up. Makes perfect sense. Replaced!
Regarding logic do you mean something like Plog?
-- Tazio

Plog is definitely good, my choice actually along with some 2hp ORs for extra. Looking like a good system (your updated one, not the one above), I'd suggest perhaps a noise source and something like an optomix and you should be set.

Good choice on the Shapeshifter btw. Its a sound designer's dream. I have 2 actually. Because its so versatile, it never feels redundant.

Lamond handles the Goike designs in the UK. I would contact him, he's a super nice guy.

Maths logic is of the cv processing variety, not on/off (AND/OR/XOR) gate logic.

And I hate to say it, but that's the least useful clock divider in euro imo. It divides the opposite way you'd exist and has extreme divisions. If you want to keep it in 4hp I'd recommend the circuit Abbey g8 or animodule Tiktok which does both multiplication and division.

Thanks for you feedback exper!
I was under the impression that the Wogglebug would generate clock, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Great tip on the Hubs I did not know about those, I'll get one or two along with the stackcables.
Regarding the 104hp could you point me out some? I was set with the PM Cell 90 because they seemed good for width and price tag.
Also, what utilities were you thinking about?
-- Tazio

The wogglebug can generate a clock, but I'm referring to division/multiplication, etc. Things get interesting when you ping filters, delay speeds, etc at different speeds. Something like a Pamela's Workout could clock everything there, and give you probability randomization, offsets, etc.

As for case, what country are you in? There's lots of good options from 4ms, Goike, lamond (UK/eur) etc. I had a pgh 48 case, and the cost savings were not worth some of its hassles. Power wouldn't work with some modules, case was not the full size, making it off a half an hp. It also weighed a TON, even for the half size one, as pgh usea steel instead of aluminum like Goike and 4ms.
For utilities, logic, comparator, switches, etc.

A word of caution on the Echophon, it didn't go fully dry, the wet signal is always there a bit. Also there's a bug in that if you externally clock it, and stop the clock, the echophon will jump the delay speed to the fastest setting. It's quite jarring. I replaced my extortion with a Modcan dual delay and couldn't be happier. No pitch shifting, but super flexible.

For one thing, you probably won't need the buffered multi. All make noise modules (wogglebug, PPs, Maths, etc have buffered outputs already. Use stackable or Intellijel hubs to save space. I'd also stretch to a 104hp case, so you could throw in a LPG, and some other utilities. Even perhaps a clock source.

Awesome! Looking forward to using it.

Beautiful setup. I'm a big Intellijel user myself. A few suggestions to help more with the generative aspects.

Don't miss out on the Quadra expander. It allows chained events, trigger delays, etc. Also, Be sure to use the Shapeshifter in LFO mode. Imagine all of that cross FM, wavetable morphing goodness as sometime chaotic, sometimes patterned CVs. Amazing. Next, look at the uMod 2, as it is not only a beautifully clean ring mod, but its a CV funhouse when you combine different speed modulation, LFOs, etc.

You're definitely going to have to rethink this. You need some basics such as mixing, VCAs, filtering, etc. You also have too many trigger sequencers.

Good idea for trunk lines too.

You need a "Unicorn" Account to make larger systems now. This is a small fee that helps support the site and allows it improve. Well worth it...

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/417

No worries about filters. If you're doing complex fm and waveshaping, you hardly need it.

I'd say you need the Quadra expander. It's cheap and really a necessity. Also, you might want a master clock still or divider. Pamelas Workout for instance.

Darn! You mean we almost saw a couple of the new Mutable designs!?

Duplicate

http://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutable-instruments-cvpal

I agree. Just made it a private entry now.

There. It has been un-privatized. :)

However, I'm not sure every modification to every module deserves a new entry. It waters down the module counts and add confusion. For instance, what if someone thinks such modules are actually available.