User Posts

thanks!

looks great, but I would want another row for utilities - another quad vca (mutable or intellijel), a matrixmixer, a sequential switch, attenuators, kinks etc and all for modulation

how are you mixing - out of the box?

you could replace the atom with a full size rings - that way you would be showing Emilie how much you appreciate her work - instead giving all your money to cloners - but that's up to you!! - you may liked cramped,modules with minicontrols - I don't!

the modules that I would remove from this case without a second thought though are the plasma drive and the listen i/o

plasma drive - it is just too big you would be better with a 4hp one from Noise Engineering

the listen i/o is redundant the nifty case already has outputs built in and often they are not needed anyway!

if you replace the ATOM with an OG Rings, the plasma drive with something from Noise Engineering and dumped the listen i/o - you would have an extra 22 hp

I'd add a passive attentuator and Maths - check out the maths illustrated manual online to see why this is one of the most useful modules in modular synthesis

The best advice would be to get a bigger case - a Mantis perhaps - and go slowly

Kinks is a thought, I feel I would need two of them.

I would get one first and then the second if you still have the urge to buy it - excellent module though!

For whatever reason I've not considered much Doepfer gear, its probably for more aesthetic reasons than function.
-- wishbonebrewery

doepfer "invented" eurorack - lots of excellent basic building block modules at very reasonable prices - there are always special editions, vintage versions and the ability to change the knobs if aesthetics are important

EDITED Aug 30th 2020, 12:38

if you post an actual link to a public rack - not a link to a jpg - you will get a lot more feedback

Personally I think you have way to much in the way of feature modules - and not enough support

I'd take out the five12 vector sequencer expander and replace it with a quad cascading vca (either mutable veils or intellijel) - I might then take out the xaoc vca - whilst you can never have too many vcas - in this size case I. should think 4 is enough - you can always add a 1u if you find you need more

in the space of the xaoc vca I'd probably add kinks and a 2hp passive mult

BUT I would strongly recommend that you go very slowly - buy a minimum viable modular synthesizer for you

a sound source
a modulation source
a sound modifier
es9

as a starting point and become familiar with each module and patching them together - probably a few weeks - then add another module and learn how it works and integrates into your workflow

I would leave the sequencer to last - if you can cope with the workflow with es9 - if not I'd be tempted to buy a simpler sequencer like the korg sq1 - which will always be handy to have - even if you don't use it constantly

Currently, I have two Pittsburgh Modular Structure EP-208 cases but when maxed-out with modules they start to give off some noise.
-- morphon

what exactly do you mean by maxed-out - how close to the maximum are you on the power rails?

if you reduce the power draw - take out the most power hungry do you still have the problem?

maybe it's just time for another case and put a few lower power or passive modules in these cases to fill them up

otherwise Mantises have quiet and clean power (clean up to video rate)

Ah but have you checked out the XL - extra modulation points - it's a bit more than a forbidden planet, but it is very good value for money

Same with Maths (again a bit more expensive) - there's a lot there for your money - and it would fill a lot of empty space!

another option for rectification is kinks - and you get sample and hold, noise and logic in a small inexpensive package

if you like inexpensive, then there's a lot of very good options with doepfer

@wishbonebrewery

@garfieldmodular
Just now I think the next module may be dictated by price (quite possible the Tiptop Forbidden Planet VCF), I do feel I'm always running out of effects I like the Wash of sound that Clouds reverb gives but if Clouds is doing proper Granular stuff then I need something to help create that ambient smeared wash of sound.

A bit more pricey - but a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL would do a significantly better job of 'ambient smeared wash sound' than a filter

@defragmenteur
I do have quite a bit of modulation, Ochd, 2hp RND which I'm really enjoying for the random gate lengths to control the Freeze button on Clouds, Noise Engineering Clep Diaz, but you are right, I do seem to run out of LFO's pretty easily. And I need to do more about modifying their range (Offsetting, Full & Half rectification and Mixing them).

I'd concentrate on the multing and modification of modulation rather than adding more - shades, kinks and a matrix mixer (AI Synthesis for example), maybe a sequential switch and some passive mults or stackcables will go a lot further than a few extra lfos

I'd also consider Maths as being an interesting complex modulation source - especially if you work your way through the online manual enough times that you can patch program it without thinking too much

EDITED Aug 29th 2020, 12:36

it's common to refer to doepfer modules by their number, not their name - weird I know as it's difficult to remember!

googling the doepfer a-147-2 vcdlfo - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=RclIX_T9Ao7UsAe-q6EI&q=youtube+doepfer+a-147-2&oq=youtube+doepfer+a-147-2&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDIFCCEQoAE6BAgAEEdQwLwBWMC8AWDL4gFoAHABeACAAViIAaoBkgEBMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwi0tIeJxr3rAhUOKuwKHb5VCAEQ4dUDCAw

lots of videos - but basically it's a resetable lfo with 4 waveforms, that has a vca attached which will open and close with the rise and fall of the delay lfo (unless something is plugged into the vca cv in - if nothing is plugged into the input then the triangle doepfer is sent to the vca input) and a delay which triggers after the lfo and starts a ramp which opens the vca and holds it open until re triggered - unless something else is plugged into the vca cv in - the delay ramp can also be patched to something else

same with the a-171-2

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=Y8lIX6zmEsqxkwWf8bWICA&q=youtube+doepfer+a-171-2&oq=youtube+doepfer+a-171-2&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoECAAQR1CGyQlY484JYPbSCWgAcAJ4AIABUYgBigGSAQEymAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjso76Xxr3rAhXK2KQKHZ94DYEQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

basically slew is the rate at which a signal changes - a slew limiter slows this down - you have 2 ways of limiting the slew of a waveform - on the way up and on the way down - so you can take a waveform that looks like this |\ and turn it into one that looks like this /\ by altering the up-slew amount and then to this /| by altering the down-slew

if nothing is patched to the input and trigger is sent to the trigger input then a single envelope based off the up-slew/down-slew will be output

if the cycle switch is engaged - then it becomes an lfo based on the up-slew/down-slew

midi out of elektron to midi in of module - set elektron midi channel to the same that the module is set (read manual on how to set this) - at a guess - cv1 is pitch - patch this to the voct of a vco - patch gate to envelope

hope this helps - might be a good idea to get a basic oscilloscope - so you can see what is happening to your waveforms

I'd have though cable height would be more important... so you can leave it patched!

EDITED Aug 27th 2020, 12:07

Hey thanks to both of you for the really thoughtful input! I tried to address common concerns up front (“how will this be sequenced”) etc, but even so all of this is super great.

NP

Some thoughts/responses:
- i was not aware of the Shallow Water, that pedal looks awesome! My thinking with the original setup was that the bass shouldn’t be sent through the same fix chain as the lead because delay and reverb on bass can be muddy and gross so having the lo fi junky as a later stage effect seemed to make sense. but i like this idea a lot
- however! the ADDAC pedal i/o is a really solid choice that i also wasn’t aware of and since it has two sends i could have multiple fix loops for different signals which is great
- i actually initially had Veils in here because i really liked the cascading aspect of it but also did recognize the amount of space it took.

at 12hp for a quad cascading vca - veils only works out at 3hp per vca - and given the cascading and amplification that most smaller vcas don't have - it's space well used

thanks for the great tips and reality checks around Pams and the rest. i love how flexible this all is but also it twists my brain up a bit trying to put it together. but in a good way, which is why its so much fun to think about.

that's why it's a good idea to start slow and grow slow - get a minimum viable synth - and then add gradually and naturallyfrom their - it may take you in a completely different direction (in terms of modules) than you thought - as you come to realise that a matrix mixer is more important than a 3rd delay, for example

Since I have the pedal board already I have been trying to resist adding fx to the rack itself, but I can see where it might still be worth it, particularly to be able to route fx sends in complex ways. maybe this can be accomplished with a couple mixer units and some sends. So it’s a good call out to be able to mix like crazy and focus on that ability to route signals. attenuators and rectifiers i am still learning about so I have some reading to do there!

one massive advantage of in rack effects is that you can modulate them - another is that you don't need to attenuate/amplify the signal to use them and as such are easier to incorporate into a mixing set up

yes lots of mixing is useful - not just for audio - where for shoegaze style music I would want to be (voltage control) mixing a lot of layers of effects - but also for control voltage (modulation and gates) too - newbies often forget about mixing entirely or only think about final stage audio mixing not sub mixing audio or any mixing of control voltages with or without voltage control

I'd be tempted to make a list of all the types of modules that you don't understand and then ask yourself what do you think they do before looking it up and once you have gone through that exercise go back and ask yourself what you would use it for note down any further questions you have about it, note them down - maybe the only way to answer some is to buy a module - a disting mk4 or ex may be a big help in this regard...

On the stereo front, I’m split on that. In terms of live performance most club PAs at the level I am at are mono anyway so stereo is a bit pointless. But for studio recording and of course headphone jamming it cant be beat.

I completely agree on this - but it is something to keep in mind

in terms of going bigger on the rack, i’ve looked seriously into both the intellijel 7u 104hp and the make noise 7u 104hp. people seem to not like the power supply on the latter but the bus looks like it could be really helpful for a project like this where lots of mixing and modulation is key.

seriously - I think the mantis has better power than either of those - definitely cleaner - I use mine for video which is much more fussy and see no unwanted noise artifacts in the signal

and the mantis is significantly cheaper - ok you loose the 1u row, but I've never been a fan, the functionality (that you actually need) can probably be had in 20-30hp or so for much less and the savings can be put towards the next case

if/when you need to take it out the decksaver lid and case are not that expensive to add

EDITED Aug 27th 2020, 12:04

Is that really a shuttle system? I don't know it well enough - but I thought it was a single panel? there's one available...

anyway - whilst reasonably balanced in terms of ticking boxes of sound sources, sound modifiers and modulation sources, for me at least there is a distinct lack of utility modules

I know that some people see utility modules as boring and unsexy, but these people do not understand modular synthesis very well - I see modular synths without them boring and unsexy...

Utility modules are the inexpensive dull polish that makes the expensive shiny modules actually shine...

it is in the spaces between the functional modules, where all signals, which are but electricity, can be combined, multiplied and modified, that the real magic in a modular synthesizer happens

at the very least I would want an mi kinks, a matrix mixer, a sequential switch, a quad cascading vca, some passive mults, attenuverters, offsets, a slew limiter, a switched multiple (all of them dc coupled, so that they can be used for modulation as well as audio) - some of which may be a few functions in one module - for example an mi shades or similar

in all probability if I built a rack with these modules in it I would add another 84 to 104hp of 3u, mostly for utilities and to have some space over for possible future modules

If I were constrained to these racks then I would throw out either the Magneto or the Rainmaker (probably the Rainmaker) in order to accommodate the minimal set of utility functions listed above

Thanks for the feedback, will take a look at the fx aid xl!
To be honest, I've use headphone splitters for a while now and it's just that I don't like the ergonomy of it, I much rather have a module for mult in my system!
-- Martebar

I completely understand don't like headphone splitters much, either - stackcables are pretty good though - if you really want a mult in the rack I'd consider a passive, if you don't need a buffered one - and I don't think you do - both saves cash and power consumption

if you are using stages for sequencing you might want more envelopes. Maths could more or less replace Function + Shades + Kinks and would give you an extra envelope for only 2hp extra space. Also, bear in mind you need 2HP for the Arbhar expander and that random modulation is really useful for getting the most out of granulators.
-- richc90

Whilst I absolutely love Maths - I wouldn't replace those modules in this case with it - mainly because I always see it as more than the sum of it's parts - I'd want both maths and those modules

I'd forego the Lofi Junky altogether and go with a Fairfield Circuitry Shallow Water (for my money it's pretty much the most musical effects pedal on the market). You can also combine delay and reverb in one pedal with the EQD Avalanche Run and save some room on your pedal board. For a small case, the suggestion of Pamela's New Workout is excellent. My $0.02, which is probably worth more like 1/2 a penny.
-- baltergeist
nah - at least 1.5c, haha

the shallow water is a great alternative to the lofi junky!

for me, for the required genre - I'd want lots of layers of both delay and reverb - so the more the better!

looks quite balanced to me
probably don't need the buffered mult (only needed for pitch) and if you need passive mults then I'd expect you to use headphone splitter style ones or stackcables - so this could go and make space for an fx aid xl which would add a multitude of different modulate-able effects in a small space

well that was a lot to read!!!

so you want a modular synth that you can sequence externally that has 2 voices (nominally bass and lead) and when combined with your pedal board will be able to produce music in the style of My Bloody Valentine/Alessandro Cortini

and here is another!!!

1 - get a bigger case - I would go for a tiptop mantis - it is very portable (similar to a guitar - carry it on your back) and has very good power - does not include parts that are irrelevant to some extent - especially as in your use case you are only using the buffered mults - and for all the 1u that you have added there are often cheaper/better solutions in 3u - get some blank panels to cover up the gaps (or make some) - you only need one buffered mult for example - you could use a mutable links for this and have 2 utility mixers as well in 4hp - I would at least have a play with this idea - don't fill the case - concentrate on what you think you want to fulfill your current goals - at least this way you will have space to add the modules that you find you need in the future without having to buy another case almost immediately

2 - if you are married to the case then you really have too many 'feature modules' and not enough support modules and not enough of the right support modules and a lot of redundancy and a mixing strategy that has not even been been considered

take out:

the lofi junky and get the pedal - it's cheaper, takes up no rack space and you loose very little in terms of modulation - which you have very little of anyway

sloths is a good 2nd modulation source for adding to another but not great as a primary modulation source imo - remove this and replace with say pamelas new workout - possibly get a 1u sloth, if you want to add some chaos and can find some way top boot something out of the top row - quadratt

optomix - I would remove this as well - it's big - plaits already has lpgs internally and ripples has one too plus your mixing solution needs improvement anyway

tiptop z4000 - replace this with either something smaller - do you really need adsr (probably not) - with pams above this is probably completely redundant in any case

that frees 34 hp and uses 8 (pams) which leaves 26hp

I would want vcas and mixing for everything else and a lot more in the way of utility than you can fit in this size case - plus aiming for a MBV esque sound I would want more modulatable reverb and delay modules - a couple of fx aid xls for example

Even removing all those modules - I see a lot of mono audio outputs (plaits (2), sto (3), ripples (3), pedal board return(1) = 9 audio outputs) and no way of mixing them to stereo - which is what your headphone module is expecting

currently the only mixer you have is duatt - which mixes 2 channels to one - yay plaits is covered - maybe

I would want a quad cascading vca such as veils or intellijel - but there won't be enough space for these

I think the best bet would be to go for a selection of Happy Nerding mixer modules - some combination of 3x VCA, PanMixJr, 3x stereo mixer, 6xMix will get as close to solving the problem in the available space as possible - probably won't be able to mix all outputs all of the time

3 - replan totally - ignore anything to do with cases for now work out what you actually need

2 sound sources - plaits is great as 1 of these/sto is fine for the other
pedal i/o - I would consider the ADDAC as it has 2 channels!
1 or 2 good modulation sources
a filter for the sto
a quad cascading vca - mutable veils and intellijel are really the only 2 I would consider here
whatever in rack effects modules you want - as I said above - a pair of fx aid xls would be a good choice for this style of music

Once you have all of those in a big (make it as big as you can, it is a sandbox, not an actual rack) modulargrid rack work out how you can provide modulation for all the modules - do you have enough - almost definitely not - spend some time thinking about how utility modules such as attenuators, mixers (especially matrix mixers), multiples, vcas, rectifiers, logic etc can leverage a relatively small number of modulation sources and what other utility modules you may need - kinks is an exceptional utility module in this regard - it can turn 1 modulation source into 7 related but different modulation sources, for example

Now consider how you want to mix the audio - do you want submixes before/after/between effects etc - does the mixing want to be voltage controlled? do you need stereo output? if so consider how you are going to convert mono to stereo and how you are going to mix stereo signals - if it was me I would want to be able to run effects in both parallel and series, over all the sound sources, individual parts and all points between

add all the utilities and mixing into the rack - don't rule out Doepfer and Ladik and other more inexpensive brands - if the module does what you want then use that over a more expensive brand

now take some copies of that rack and try to consolidate it into rack configurations

try some with 1u rows - the 7u/104hp intellijel case may be a good starting point for that one, or a mantis or even the palette - maybe you need to go for a micro version of a few modules - maybe you need to take one fx aid xl and one regular one - to enable you to cram what you need into a case - preferably with some space available - so that you can add something you find interesting down the line, without having to throw something else out you need

and then get a minimum playable version of what you need and start playing with it - add the other modules slowly - maybe spread the cost out over a year, or longer - so that it is affordable

EDITED Aug 26th 2020, 14:00

might be an idea to lay it out like a rackbrute then, no?

it is very easy to change the number and size of rows and the hp! and with the power module

so it's easy to see how much space is actually available - 8hp??

by the sound of it the first thing you might want to buy is another case

and then a lot of basic utility modules - currently the case looks like an advert for a selection of the 10 most popular modules - workout what you can do with things like sequential switches, kinks -brilliant module, matrix mixers, attenuators etc - remember utilities are for modulation as well as audio - I would go for simpler cheaper functional building blocks over flashier more expensive ones - they generally provide much more flexibility - possibly at the cost of a few hp

of the modules that you mention I would definitely pick up maths though - it's a great module - a veritable patch-programmable analog computer - see the illustrated manual on line for more information

EDITED Aug 25th 2020, 13:52

The case upgrade makes a lot of sense as you are already invested in their 1u modules

I would want more modulation and utilities - quad cascading vca, matrix mixer, kinks, panning mixers, attenuators, sequential switch etc

I'd look at the happy nerding fx aid xl as at least one of the effects units - smallish, reasonably priced and loads of possible effects - and better modulation options than it's smaller sibling!

If you are going to add a lot of stero effects to a load of mono outputs then at least one panning mixer (panmixjr, for example) would add a lot - sub mix mono sources into a stereo field before processing with effects

How are you mixing what you have already???

EDITED Aug 25th 2020, 13:17

You mention about predominantly using cv/gate and not midi, can I ask for curiosity sake when would the use of midi be required as opposed to cv/gate?

a lot of people use midi to sequence (mostly from computers or - and maybe you could from the matriarch, but not much piint as you can use cv/gate from the matriarch - if you are not going to use midi then in buying the palette you already paid for 1/2 a midi converter - buying a mantis you pay nothing for midi converter unless you want/need one

In regards to listening to the Matriarch, my current setup is directly from the main outputs into a Saffire pro 40 interface. This shouldn't be affected by the use of Eurorack as long as I patch everything back into the Matriarch mixer right?

you can patch straight from the rack into the interface - no need to go via the matriarch unless you want to - just make sure your gain staging is ok - possibly attenuate signals from the rack (some passive attenuators will do the job)

NP

In regards to the case, in reality it is something I'm not completely married to, I guess it's the minimal size which is more the point - I'm not looking to expand and expand so alternative small cases like you mention are welcome :)

I think it comes down to what you want - there are pros and cons for all case sizes and manufacturers of cases

My view is that even if the goal is a small case (under 6u and under 84hp) - then it is often better to start with a bigger case - most people seem to swap modules quite a bit before they settle on what they need - as this process will be significantly easier with a slightly larger case

the price differential - not taking into account the preinstalled 1/2u row - which I see as worth maybe 50 - is negligible - and they kind of tie you into buying extra modules to get a lot of those components to work

but - matriarch is already eurorack audio level and you are predominantly going to use cv/gate not midi - so you don't really need either of these - the other 1u modules, there are similarly priced alternatives in 3u

if you feel that a big hole in a case will inspire GAS then get/make some blank panels (this is a good idea anyway)

go slowly buy an interesting modulation source - Maths is really popular for a reason ("maths illustrated manual" via google) - maybe add a disting (mk4/ex) as a versatile module, maybe a quad cascading vca (veils would be my 1st choice then intellijel) and an interesting effect and start patching it with the matriarch

you don't mention how you are listening to your matriarch - via a mixer?

As I say, I am new to eurorack and seems I have mistaken the interaction between it and the matriarch? My initial thoughts were to clock from the matriarch to pams and use the eurorack modulation to affect the matriarchs features, using the cases trs as a line in for other potential sources.
It's ok if I've got it all wrong though lol, that's why I'm here! :)

Great attitude!!!!

I appreciate your "I'm married to the case statement" - but seriously get a divorce and get a mantis - much better value. in the long term and easily portable unless you are a small child and the 'included' modules don't really save any money and tie you into buying 1u modules to use them

BUT

how are you planning on sequencing v/oct for rings/uBurst? I think you may need the 1u midi module - the case provides only the usb or din via trrs inputs - NOT the cv/gate that you need to sequence a modular

you probably want to get the 1u line out module - so you can use the case outputs

I don't see the need for steppy at all - it seems completely irrelevant - there is nothing here that begs to be trigger sequenced

I would dump 2 of - pams, batumi and sloths - probably keep batumi and add a 1u sloth - maybe swap batumi for zadar? - you simply have too much modulation in too small a rack with not enough to actually modulate!!!

I would get rid of both of the vcas and the stereo line in - and replace with a good quad cascading vca - veils or intellijel - they are pretty much the only ones that amplify and will function perfectly as line ins (appropriate cable required)

I would add kinks - incredibly useful set of tools in a small space

this may leave you enough space to add a stereo mixer and maybe a second filter

swap typhoon in instead of pams (and move this to last in order) - in the 4 starter modules

next module after those should be a quad cascading vca - I prefer veils (more gain), but the intellijel is also a good choice - as both of these amplify (most vcas are actually attenuators) - and you can use one of the channels to amplify the sub37 - not that you should need to - clouds has loads of input gain - typhoon should be the same - so try it first (you need a 1/4"->1/8" cable)

I'd probably choose between o&c and pams - and use the money saved to get some simple utility modules - logic, mixers, sequential switches etc

Is this the expander for Dylan's 1000 VCO monstrosity? ;-)
-- Lugia

don't you mean Sam Battle (Look Mum No Computer)?

Yeah I realized my mistake and took them off. I'll make it public.
-- moonstomp

but I still can't click through - maybe because it was private when posted - idk... anyway here's a link to the rack -

why do you think you need a midi module? - you already have one in the 1u section

I'm not convinced it's the right midi module for you, if in fact you do need one, though - why? because you have more 'voices' than midi channels - maybe you don't need them all and are going to tune all your vcos to different scale notes or always use both dixie IIs at the same pitch - more channels gives more flexibility - but what do I know? I don't use midi

the way I look at this your rack is too many voices, too many big effects modules (do you really need 2 granular effects/voices?), a bit too much modulation and not enough support modules (utilities) for this size case - maybe just maybe enough vcas, but nowhere near enough mixing!

don't worry this is one of the most common starter 'dream' rack problems

my advice is to buy a minimum viable synth and grow slowly and 'organically' - that is start with:

1 sound source - a vco
1 sound modifier - an effect or filter
1 modulation source - one of maths, peaks, quadrax or pams
a way to play - a midi module if that's how you want to sequence
a way to listen - possibly just the 1u headphones to start with

maybe add the disting mk4

and learn to patch and play those modules inside and out - take your time - once you realise that you are missing something buy that module - if you buy the disting and find you are always using it for a specific purpose buy that module and use the disting for something else - and repeat until satisfied that you have all the modules you want and can get the most out of them - when you find you need a mixer, buy a mixer (get more channels than you think you will need, because you will need them sooner or later)

a quick word on mixing - you have both mono (vcos/filter) and stereo modules - you probably want to mix some of the vcos to send to the filter (need a basic unity mixer) or to one of the effects (and a panning mixer) and then mix the effects together (and a stereo mixer) before sending them to the outputs - plus some mixing for modulation sources (see a quick word on utilities)

a quick word on utilities - compared to a lot of other modules - utility modules are often seen as boring and not worth spending money on - especially by newbies - when in fact utilities are the inexpensive dull polish, that makes the expensive shiny modules actually shine and stops them tarnishing - spend some time researching the different types and how they are used - they are a great way of leveraging minimal modulation sources to being modulation powerhouses and promote variation - matrix mixers, logic, switches etc are extremely useful in this regard - some of these are implemented in disting. - but you will still need mixers - and remember as powerful and great as diting is it can only do 1 thing at a time

EDITED Aug 19th 2020, 18:16

@Ajai

you'd be surprised how many people are shocked by the size of eurorack when it actually lands in their hands - despite having watched countless videos etc because they've never actually seen one in real life

I still see nothing critical - in fact I specifically state that it's a well specc'ed system - just that there are some drawbacks that they may not have thought about - namely size and potential resale market

maybe I shouldn't have used the word "trapped", a slight over exaggeration perhaps, but really I haven't got time to search through a thesaurus to find a word that means trapped, but less so

if any of this is enough to put anyone off, or dull their enthusiasm for, modular, then they really weren't into it in the first place - that was in no way my intention and I truly believe that the more modular synthesists there are the better

the blatently obvious thing is that you have 2 uzeus power supply modules that you don't need as the intellijel cases are powered

why do you think you need a midi module?

it might be an idea to make sure your rack is public - I can't click through and there are some modules I don't quite recognise - unsurprising really considering there are over 7000 eurorack modules on the site

@Ajai - No offence was intended - and I see no (harsh) criticism - I just see facts - sometimes these are hard for us to deal with - possibly lost in translation or you are being over sensitive for some reason

I see no point whatsoever in sugar coating 'criticism' - that would impart ambiguity where none is intended

I do see the first line of your post as completely inaccurate though - no offense taken - I'm a thick skinned northern Englishman!

@Garfield -

no just the appropriate cable - that is your clock at the correct bpm

then just record the modular via your audio interface

pams and mimetic digitalis will complement each other well

you already have 2 adsrs in peaks - do you really need more? more vcas - good idea - you van never have too many!!!

dump - 30hp total

2hp euclid and pico trigger - these are redundant with pams

pico dsp - as the pico trigger is now gone - you want to even up you hp requirements and it only has mono in stereo out - and you have no stereo mixing capabilities

optomix - too big in this size case

monsoon - need space

intellijel buffered mult - you already have one buffered mult (links), do you really need a second? and third?

add

kinks - this will massively increase your modulation options in a small space

a cascading quad vca - veils or intellijel - these particular vcas can also be used as external inputs - as they are actually amplifiers instead of the usual vc attenuators

happy nerding fx aid - more effects - more choice - stereo - probably some dual mono effects as well

if you want stereo I'd also add: a panning mixer and a stereo mixer (maybe multiples of one or both)

if you want a metropolis - get a used one - they usually seem to go for about 70% retail - and if you don't like it you can flip it for the same money

or get a ryk m185 - maybe diy it - not a starter project though

great idea - but try this no more than 5-6 modules - just the ones you will start with:

a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play, a quad cascading vca - and something else that you think you want/need

and then once everyone has gone - huh - looks ok to me - buy it and play with it, at least until you have a good idea how everything works together - and don't worry about what modules to buy to fill your case - they will work themselves out over time - maybe after a month or 2 add another module or 2 and repeat

generally sounds like a good plan

I would suggest not going for the 2-3 tier moog 60hp case strategy though

they work out quite expensive by the time you've powered them

the best decent (in terms of power and build quality), reasonably priced cases are still imo the doepfer LC6 with the PSU3 and the TipTop Audio Mantis and probably will be next year and the year after etc

and neither of them use a power module - so you get all the space you buy for modules you want - not loosing 4hp or so per case

use it as the clock - send it out on say channel 3 of your interface and set the tempo in reaper

if you are going to make several passes it can help keep everything in time - especially if you want to change tempo during a track - set the tempo changes in the daw you can also use it to start/stop etc - hopefully when you record then every track you record from the modular will start at the same place which makes life a lot easier

if you are going to want to add soft synths or any processing that is time based in the box

if you are adding to something already recorded

etc etc

Sequencing and Quantization: bloom and turing machine + scales and pams = overkill for the number of voices you have, if you ask me - get a few buffered mults, tune vcos to intervals, use sample and hold, use divided clocks for triggers etc etc and get rid of at least the tm

Why the field kit? - and it's a big module...

the quad vca - i don't think you'll get on with this one - or at least I wouldn't - it is a quad vca, but there is only one set of controls - great for playing chords, but not what I'd want as a first quad vca - get the a-135-2 instead if you want 8hp and doepfer - I prefer veils - especially for beginners it's a really useful and simple quad cascading vca - lots of gain for external inputs (unlike most vcas - which are really attenuators) and overdrives quite nicely - but is more expensive and bigger!

I'd want more utilities - especially for multing, mixing and modifying modulation - probably some more submixers for audio too, possibly a panning mixer so that you can take your mono sources and pan them to stereo - so that you can process them with the mimeophon and morphagene

taking into account effects from mixer - there is too much space taken by sound sources and ways to play

atlantis is huge, utsa is huge

unless these are both must haves - consider dropping one or both - definitely consider keeping only one of utsa and fh-1

modulation is ok for this size case (Maths and pams) but more utilities needed to leverage them into enough for all modules

do you really need steppy? (pams can do a lot)

the MMF is tiny and may be difficult to get to especially if you have medium sized or above fingers

Blinds - are you sure you want a vca that doesn't fully close - it's difficult to dial in exactly 0 - as a starter I would recommend a simpler quad cascading vca - such as Veils (if you desperately want a ring mod - get a small one after freeing some space)

Do you really need 2 * row power - iirc the 40 should be able to power 2 rows - or get a better power solution

Utility modules are the inexpensive dull polish that make the expensive shiny modules, actually shine and stops them from tarnishing - switches, attenuators, mixers, mults, offsets, etc etc

and yes I can hear you going - but I've got Maths and Shades for that!! Treat Maths as Maths it is a complex modulation source - not just a collection of utilities strapped to a pair of function generators - see the Maths Illustrated Guide - between them they are a great start - if you can fit them in in a later iteration of this rack - I would add links and kinks (great starter utility set) and a matrix mixer

the usual way to get into eurorack is to spend a fuckload of time researching (months if not years) - so that you actually know what modules are before even looking at the pretty pictures - or you could just get a semi

whilst the pico system seems to be a reasonably well specc'ed system - there are drawbacks - the main one being that the individual modules (yes I know there's only 1 panel in the system) are all very small - usually best sandwiched between 2 bigger modules so that there is space to get to the control and the jacks and in this case they are sandwiched between 2 modules the same size they are

I think the only market for this (either as a rack module or as a standalone desktop unit) is beginners - so your re-sale market is starters who particularly want to get trapped with these modules

personally I would do the research, save the pennies, try and actually play with a modular either at a store or through someone locally and then buy a case and a few modules that you actually want and have a decent idea about what they do - rather than rushing into buying a system that you can't see any users of

it may be that after having done the research then you still decide you want this 'module' - then at least you are not going into it blind - as you appear to be

EDITED Aug 9th 2020, 19:55

Thanks @troux and anyone else who did the same off the back of this thread!!!

@mog00 - it really depends on the individual - I like the make noise, erica synths, mutable (braided) cables and stackcables - I also have doepfer, arturia and tinrs - which I'm not so keen on (although the tinrs are really useful) - generally the important things are flexibility, reliability and the size of the plugs and cable - cables aren't expensive just buy a few different ones and try them out - try to aim for roughly 1/2 the number of jacks you have in the case - at some point you'll need less - but it's a good starting point

well good luck with that I don't have particularly large hands and I definitely prefer bigger modules with larger knobs and more space between the knobs and jacks - but each to their own

go slowly buy a few modules at a time - that way you can answer these questions yourself - it's your synth - if you can get similar functionality to links from other modules (and you prefer those other modules) then do so - personally I always find it useful to have a buffered mult etc etc

yeah the bored brains things will work, but you'll probably want a few, easily loose them, drop them on the floor and step on them, spill coffee on them etc...

EDITED Aug 8th 2020, 19:35

If you are going to get a Mantis (great case btw, I have 1) then it really doesn't matter as you will have space left over anyway, ochd is a fine octal lfo, but in a small case with other modulation I think links is slightly more useful

to me really it comes down to this - buy a few modules - play with them - once you know them inside out, get another and repeat, within one or two modules you will work out which modules you need anyway

personally I would have fewer sound sources and get full size ones so that they are easier to play with

but more seriously, I would dump the ochd - pams and maths (plus pachinko) is enough modulation in this size case imo - instead use utility modules, such as mutable links and kinks and a matrix mixer to derive lots of related modulation

if you look around enough (2 mins on google) you'll find a pulse from make noise that you can just copy in an audio track and then place it on every beat and play that out at full volume on a spare audio channel - this works even if you don't have a dc coupled audio interface - I do and I still use this method

or you could use midi clock and a midi->cv module

Some thoughts from a relative noobie, but I'd probably swap the Links for an Ochd, I like a lot of potential modulation sources and Ochd's ratios are really nice even if you only use a few outs, this would let you use the Maths in some more interesting ways too. If I was going to pick a different filter I'd choose a Polaris, I like the sound a lot more than the new Ripples, it's more playable, and it has a lot more features. You'd have 2hp to fill there which is a lot less than 4 but might still give you some interesting options.

re ochd - I think 1 modulation source in a case this size is enough - kinks and links together with the matrix mixer provide enough useful utility modules to leverage Maths to suffice all the modulation requirements - ochd (or similar, maybe something with reset) would be a great early addition to the next rack, imo

I like the idea of swapping the filter for ripples or polaris!

On another note @JimHowell1970 I hope we see some video work from you one day, that rack looks incredible!
-- troux

https://www.instagram.com/jimhowell1970 - enjoy

the case is more logical than physical - it's not all in one case, chromagnon is on order and the bottom 2 rows are my wish list - as is the fortress and diver is in for repair

EDITED Aug 8th 2020, 17:28

I would remove the adsr, the dsp, the quad lfo and rosie

do you really need an adsr? generally these are pretty much set and forget so 2hp work really well - or if you need something more variable sellf patch maths - see illustrated manual - if you really need a 'complex' adsr - I'm sure you can find another one that is a nice even 6hp so that you can upgrade the pico dsp to the happy nerding fx aid

the pico dsp is based on the same chip as the fx aid - but the fx aid however is much more versatile - you can swap the programs and can do both stereo in stereo out and mono in stereo out

you have Maths as a modulation source - which imo is enough in this size case - see below on how to make it go further

in my opinion Rosie is pretty pointless and takes up a lot of space for what it is - either use the vca or the effect module as a final stage and listen in mono or the effect module as a final stage and listen in stereo - use a 2hp headphone module if you specifically need headphones - if you desperately want a crossfader you can patch it with maths - see illustrated manual

that would save you 30hp

with that I would put in -
6hp - an original plaits - much more ergonomically friendly
2hp - 2hp headphone module
4hp - fx aid - much more versatile than the pico dsp (and an even size!)
8hp - mutable links and kinks - incredibly useful beginner starter set - adds a buffered mult, 2 utility mixers*, a rectifier, basic logic and a sample and hold - these are all incredibly useful in terms of both audio and (particularly in a small case like this) cv - you can use a minimal amount of modulation - ie Maths - and extend it in many different ways - to produce a further 7 related modulation sources (helps if you get some stackcables for this!) just from kinks

and then either

10hp - AISynthesis matrix mixer - just because matrix mixers rock - AISynthesis seem like a great company - and it fits in 10hp!

or

2hp - 2hp adsr - if you really need an adsr
8hp - doepfer quad vca - because you can never have too many vcas

or

8hp - disting ex - incredibly useful in any sized case - especially for beginners to work out what modules actually do
2hp - 2hp adsr or even better vca

or

4hp - disting mk4 - really useful in any size case - especially for beginners to work out what modules actually do
6hp - leave blank until disting tells you what to put there

a good starting point would be to get all doepfer modules (vco, vca, vcf, lfo etc) - they are reasonably priced and pretty good

the dreadbox chromatic modules appear to be quite decent too - but pretty much any brand within your price range is a good idea

for a vca I would suggest a quad cascading vca - either veils or the intellijel qaud vca would be my top picks for a starter case

otherwise maybe an idea of budget would be a good idea - i would go for simpler stuff to start with and learn how to patch before getting more (complex) modules (and get them slowly, if you can)

and don't forget to spend some time working out what different types of module do - especially ones that come under the banner 'utilities' - they are relatively inexpensive and are the dull polish that make the shiny modules actually shine

"I also added in another VCO"
I would do the opposite

well I'd want multiple delays - but maybe that's just me
other things i'd want -
some sort of expression pedal adapter - Bastl Clutch, addac expression pedal adapter, 7 dials cv express etc
and an fx pedal adapter for adding n pedals
maybe something to do pitch to cv - disting does this and a few others

Just treat the rack as a plan - and plans are great until you start to execute them - at which point they usually change

I think aesthetics are personal - I have a mix of red, black, aluminium and clear paneled modules - i'm more interested in what the modules do than what they look like to be honest

If I were to add modules I would add the following (you will need the bigger case!):

mutable links and kinks - an excellent utility starter set
a quad cascading vca - I like veils it is simple to use and has enough gain (20db) to act as an external input - you can also use it as a voltage controlled mixer (hence cascading)
a disting - either the ex or a mk4 - always there when you need it - if you keep using it for the same thing - buy a module that does that and use the disting for something else
a matrix mixer - there are a number to choose from - I'd probably go for either the AISynthesis one or the Doepfer

the usual advice is to just buy a few modules to start with - learn them and how they work together and then add other modules slowly - if you are in any way worried about being overwhelmed - this is definitely the way to go

maybe you should just get one vco, the filter, the modulator and the vca waveshaper ringmod - and seriously think about adding a few of the utilities above (links and kinks, maybe veils, maybe a disting) learn how to patch those together and then try to work out what you are missing - it might even be from your planned rack - who knows?

I see enough sound sources, modulation sources and sound modifiers for this size rack

I would keep links - not only does it have a buffered mult - which you should use for v/oct - you can then send a single v/oct to the 3 potential sound sources (odessa, e352 and clouds) but it also contains 2 basic mixers - which you will almost definitely be glad of - I do not see a dedicated sequencer!

the deficits in this rack are the same as in most newbie racks - although, yours is reasonably balanced - links and kinks are a great utility starter set imho - the lack of utility modules to support the shiny expensive ones - clouds (if it is an og or a 'faithful' clone) benefits greatly from some attenuators (I have a 2hp trim module either side of mine) - yes I know you have attenutaors in Maths, but why waste them like that - check the maths illustrated manual for why you shouldn't just see maths as a collection of utilities - but as a self contained analog computer for self-patching interesting functions

you have too many big feature modules and not enough support modules

In my racks I have about 30% of the space dedicated to utilities - this feels about right to me - whereas you have under 10% (the only thing I would class as a utility module that you have is a mixer and a single vca) - I might not use every single module in every patch - but quite often I do

spend some time thinking about how you would patch this - try arranging something similar in vcvrack and see just how many mixers, mults, vcas etc you really need to get the most out of that number of modules - play with a number of different types of utility module to understand how you would use them in your workflow - for example how you really need a sub-mixer to mix the vcos before hitting the filter etc etc

if you are 'married' to the modules you have chosen go for a bigger case (6u / 104hp or 9u /84hpfor example) - add in a quad cascading vca, some logic modules, sample and hold, rectification, utility mixers, mults, switches, matrix mixers

some people describe these modules as boring and whine about not wanting to spend money on modules that don't produce or effect sound - but these are generally people who have not learnt to patch modular synthesizers, yet - these functions are easily ignored if moving from a fixed architecture synth (or soft synths) to modular as most of them are almost always hidden or obscured in some way

but utility modules are the (relatively inexpensive) dull polish that make the expensive, shiny modules, shine brighter and prevent tarnishing

I don't have one - but maybe it would be a good idea to check what psus you are all using

someone mentioned a uZeus - which is not known for being particularly quiet

try to find someone to test it with either a Doepfer PSU3 - which are generally pretty quiet

so it might be that the rainmaker is particularly susceptible to noise on the power rails

in which case the options are simple - put up with it, get a better psu, get rid of the module